Knightly Orders of the Empire - Which can we expect to see?

TheWattman#7460

A big part of the Empire is their Knightly Orders and in future Empire updates they will likely play an important role as well. Those updates as of now, are still far off, but their shape can be defined to varying degrees. First and foremost is the Ulric-themed update that will finally unlock Boris Todbringer and Middenland. But also, there is a strong possibility of an update unlocking Averland and Marius Leitdorf with a campaign focused on beating Vampires. To both of these factions, there are knightly orders that can be argued to fit into the updates with varying credibility, so I thought we could have a discussion about which orders have a chance of making it in. Lets set the stage.

Currently there are 4 Orders in the game, in one form or another:
Reiksguard and Blazing Sun are standard recruits
Knights of Everlasting Light and Knights of Morr are state troops of Ostermark and Sylvania respectively.

4 Orders are not a bad start, but more are all but guaranteed to come. Lets start with the Middenland update:
Knights of the White Wolf are basically a given alongside its variants like the Teutogen Guard. The most iconic Ulric-themed units for sure. So these are basically already confirmed. The big question is will they be joined by others?

Knights Panther - My answer is yes, the Knights Panther. They are also rather iconic in the Warhammer world and are unquestionably linked with Middenland, in that they form the bodyguard of Count Boris Todbringer himself. And to add more incentive, the Knights Panther Chapterhouse is already a special building available in Carroburg. To not include the actual order itself would just be strange.

Beyond that, there are no major and distinct orders specifically linked to Middenland. The other Ulric orders are located further north. So lets instead look south to Averland and see what Orders can form candidates to help Count Leitdorf in Sylvania. To me, there are 3 main options that are either linked to Averland itself or stationed on the borders of Sylvania with the mission of hunting Vampires:

Order of the Black Bear

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Black_Bear

This is the Knightly Order that has the closest links to Averland itself, but it is also the Order that I think shouldn't be included in this update. Their models basically look like a combination of the Reiksguard and Blazing Sun and they fight with lances. That's something the Empire will have in abundance by this point (regular Knights, Reiksguard, Blazing Sun, Everlasting Light and probably Panther). Plus, they aren't really known for fighting anything except themselves in tournaments. So the Order with the closest link, but not a practical one.

Knights Raven

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Knights_of_the_Raven

The Knights Raven is the militaristic extention of the Fellowship of the Shroud, an Order that is dedicated to the destruction of all undead. Their headquarters is located in Siegfridhof, a bordertown between Sylvania and Stirland, which makes them an excellent choice for an anti-Vampire Empire campaign. Although I can't find a reference to it, their visuals indicate that they use bows, which would open up a new nieche in the Empire's cavalry: heavily armoured bow cavalry with magic damage. Skirmish cavalry that can also double as heavy combat cavalry, especially against Undead. This Order and the following I will bring up I see as a natural inclusion into an Averland anti-Vampire update for the Empire.

Order of the Sacred Scythe

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Sacred_Scythe

The Order of the Sacred Scythe is a more obscure order, but the one I think could be the most thematically appropriate in accordance with the Vampire hunting that Averland's campaign will be. The Scythes patrol the Stirland border and its their sacred mission to root out undeath and make it properly dead. They fight with Scythes, which in-game would probably be highly magically damaging and anti-infantry, perfect for cutting through hordes of zombies. A distinct Order in both appearance and fighting style that very well could be the selling point of a DLC.

So in conclusion, my take is that we will recieve 4 new orders: White Wolf (+ variants), Panther, Raven and Sacred Scythe.

What do you think guys? Are these Orders possible or do you see some others making it in?

Crossil#2134

Knights of White Wolf and Knights Panther are about all I expect. They were full on units so I think they're more or less certain to appear.

The rest depend entirely on what CA feels like doing.

ROMOBOY#7812

Yeah I agree. The ones listed below however are more unlikely, but would be great additions. Out of the 3 you suggested, I’m Knights Raven all the way! If they follow that artwork, it’ll be one of the coolest looking units.

Goatforce#6625

White Wolf as a melee AP cav, and Panther as an AL cav is what I expect

Graden#6734

It's only a matter of time for Boris/Middenland so Knights of the White Wolf are extremely likely for sure.

TheGuardianOfMetal#3661

KotWW, Teutogen Guard and maybe Knights Panther.

Draxynnic#3149

White Wolves are probably the most likely since there's a niche for great weapon knights, and then Knights Panther for their higher traction in the setting.

Fluff-wise, using ranged weapons is a general trend of knights of Morr expecting to fight undead, in order to bring down undead that would be particularly dangerous in close combat before they get that close. It's likely that the Knights Raven would follow a similar principle... although it's worth noting that the Knights of Morr were really not treated well in the FLC (they should be using greatswords when mounted, not lances). It's the Black Guard of Morr where it's explicitly stated in the fluff text, but the crunch for the Knight of the Raven career path shows that they also use bows or crossbows. Most knightly career paths don't include ranged weapon talents at all.

Wtfah114

Wolf and panther would probably come with middenland, would like the rest to be included but they are far less likely

dreagon#2903

With so many cavalry options available to the empire I highly doubt they will add more than one. Considering their chapterhouse is in the game, the knights panther.

BrynjarK#6108

TheWattman said:

A big part of the Empire is their Knightly Orders and in future Empire updates they will likely play an important role as well. Those updates as of now, are still far off, but their shape can be defined to varying degrees. First and foremost is the Ulric-themed update that will finally unlock Boris Todbringer and Middenland. But also, there is a strong possibility of an update unlocking Averland and Marius Leitdorf with a campaign focused on beating Vampires. To both of these factions, there are knightly orders that can be argued to fit into the updates with varying credibility, so I thought we could have a discussion about which orders have a chance of making it in. Lets set the stage.

Currently there are 4 Orders in the game, in one form or another:
Reiksguard and Blazing Sun are standard recruits
Knights of Everlasting Light and Knights of Morr are state troops of Ostermark and Sylvania respectively.

4 Orders are not a bad start, but more are all but guaranteed to come. Lets start with the Middenland update:
Knights of the White Wolf are basically a given alongside its variants like the Teutogen Guard. The most iconic Ulric-themed units for sure. So these are basically already confirmed. The big question is will they be joined by others?

Knights Panther - My answer is yes, the Knights Panther. They are also rather iconic in the Warhammer world and are unquestionably linked with Middenland, in that they form the bodyguard of Count Boris Todbringer himself. And to add more incentive, the Knights Panther Chapterhouse is already a special building available in Carroburg. To not include the actual order itself would just be strange.

Beyond that, there are no major and distinct orders specifically linked to Middenland. The other Ulric orders are located further north. So lets instead look south to Averland and see what Orders can form candidates to help Count Leitdorf in Sylvania. To me, there are 3 main options that are either linked to Averland itself or stationed on the borders of Sylvania with the mission of hunting Vampires:

Order of the Black Bear

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Black_Bear

This is the Knightly Order that has the closest links to Averland itself, but it is also the Order that I think shouldn't be included in this update. Their models basically look like a combination of the Reiksguard and Blazing Sun and they fight with lances. That's something the Empire will have in abundance by this point (regular Knights, Reiksguard, Blazing Sun, Everlasting Light and probably Panther). Plus, they aren't really known for fighting anything except themselves in tournaments. So the Order with the closest link, but not a practical one.

Knights Raven

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Knights_of_the_Raven

The Knights Raven is the militaristic extention of the Fellowship of the Shroud, an Order that is dedicated to the destruction of all undead. Their headquarters is located in Siegfridhof, a bordertown between Sylvania and Stirland, which makes them an excellent choice for an anti-Vampire Empire campaign. Although I can't find a reference to it, their visuals indicate that they use bows, which would open up a new nieche in the Empire's cavalry: heavily armoured bow cavalry with magic damage. Skirmish cavalry that can also double as heavy combat cavalry, especially against Undead. This Order and the following I will bring up I see as a natural inclusion into an Averland anti-Vampire update for the Empire.

Order of the Sacred Scythe

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Sacred_Scythe

The Order of the Sacred Scythe is a more obscure order, but the one I think could be the most thematically appropriate in accordance with the Vampire hunting that Averland's campaign will be. The Scythes patrol the Stirland border and its their sacred mission to root out undeath and make it properly dead. They fight with Scythes, which in-game would probably be highly magically damaging and anti-infantry, perfect for cutting through hordes of zombies. A distinct Order in both appearance and fighting style that very well could be the selling point of a DLC.

So in conclusion, my take is that we will recieve 4 new orders: White Wolf (+ variants), Panther, Raven and Sacred Scythe.

What do you think guys? Are these Orders possible or do you see some others making it in?

Sign me up for some scythe units they look rad

Lord_Distamorfin#1941

In the event that we get a Knightly Orders themed DLC, I really hope that CA will go back and retool the Knights of Morr and Knights of the Everlasting Light. I'm not a fan of the Elector Counts units, but these are the biggest offenders for me. Reiksguard and Knights of the Blazing Sun both get their Chapter Houses in game as a recruitment area while the Knights of Morr and Knights of the Everlasting Light are stuck as Elector recruits with the basic Empire Knight statline.

CA should put the Knights of the Everlasting Light's Chapter House in Essen and add an Order of the Black Rose Chapter House somewhere in Stirland (they don't have an official Chapter House, but they were founded in Stirland in the Age of Three Emperors as the Count's bodyguard, so it fits). Make them both recruitable in the same manner as the Knights of the Blazing Sun and make them their own units without the "(Empire Knights)" next to their name, all it would take is a slight stat adjustment to differentiate them from basic Empire Knights. Then just replace the Elector Count units for Sylvania and Ostermark with something else, they made up Eldred's Guard, they can think of something.

Sultschiem#8734

The only INTERESTING one left are the Knights of the White Wolf, because they are a greatweapon grinder-cav.

Otherwhise, Inner Circle Knights.

apostolisp#4467

I hope all of them get released someday , with an Elector Counts DLC , all except the ones that will come with Cult of Urlic as a unique faction

Bonutz#3949

Knights of the White Wolf and Knights Panther are a must.

Anything else is just a bonus.

eomat#7953

We need Knights Panther and Knights of the White Wolf. We will then get Teutogen Guard of course as dismounted KotWW. That's all and I very much hope to see.

I would love to see a Kurt Helborg addition as LL who buffs Reiksguard with the addition of the 3 major Knightly Orders Grandmasters. They should all be unique and decked out in their chapters armour without helms. The KotBS and Knights Panther Grandmasters should be using sword and shield. Perhaps the KotWW one should have Grey Hair. They would be available for recruitment when you build each ones specific Chapterhouse.

TheWattman#7460

eomat said:

We need Knights Panther and Knights of the White Wolf. We will then get Teutogen Guard of course as dismounted KotWW. That's all and I very much hope to see.

I would love to see a Kurt Helborg addition as LL who buffs Reiksguard with the addition of the 3 major Knightly Orders Grandmasters. They should all be unique and decked out in their chapters armour without helms. The KotBS and Knights Panther Grandmasters should be using sword and shield. Perhaps the KotWW one should have Grey Hair. They would be available for recruitment when you build each ones specific Chapterhouse.

You better pray that CA moves Clan Eshin to Bel Aliad to free up Sudenburg then. Because that's the only way he has a chance of making it in. I was hoping for this myself, but circumstance have forced me to give up that hope.

Pray#3234

any one that has better Demigryph knight

perhaps Griffon knight since they are the last Demigryph knights

Knight of the white wolf are cool but they are just worse Demigryph who care

Qwerty55

Pray said:

Knight of the white wolf are cool but they are just worse Demigryph who care

Well I care, some us like the lore rather than just the meta. Leaving out one of the most important knightly orders is silly, especially if Boris Todbringer or the Ar Ulric are ever added it's logical that knights of the White Wolf will come alongside them.

Pray#3234

Qwerty55 said:

Pray said:

Knight of the white wolf are cool but they are just worse Demigryph who care

Well I care, some us like the lore rather than just the meta. Leaving out one of the most important knightly orders is silly, especially if Boris Todbringer or the Ar Ulric are ever added it's logical that knights of the White Wolf will come alongside them.

right now you can talk whatever you want , but remember White lion of Chrace ? remember KOTBS ? unit that no one care about .

Karak_Spoon#6103

apostolisp said:

I hope all of them get released someday , with an Elector Counts DLC , all except the ones that will come with Cult of Urlic as a unique faction

I don't think there will be an Elector Count DLC.

Although it will be interesting to see what CA has planned for Elector Counts and Dwarf Kings because some of them aren't going to Legendary Lords.

TheWattman#7460

erza321 said:

I don't think there will be an Elector Count DLC.

Although it will be interesting to see what CA has planned for Elector Counts and Dwarf Kings because some of them aren't going to Legendary Lords.

Beyond Boris and Marius Leitforf there probably won't be any further additions really. I personally would love the unlock of Nordland (Knightly Orders here being Sons of Manann and Order of the Winter Throne), but that's very unlikely. At most they might recieve unique models, but nothing further. As for the Dwarfs, the remaining Kings don't really offer that much. Alrik of Karak Hirn isn't known to venture outside his hold and thus would start in Hirn, which is in the next province over to Karaz-a-Karak. An unappealing start, also when it comes to Barak Varr and Byrrnoth Grundadrakk. Literally the first confederation target for Throgrim and Barak Varr isn't even a credible option without naval combat to begin with. And Kazador won't make it in either since Karak Azul will be commanded by Thorek Ironbrow.

Tayvar

Pray said:

any one that has better Demigryph knight

perhaps Griffon knight since they are the last Demigryph knights

Knight of the white wolf are cool but they are just worse Demigryph who care

Power Creep? how about Knights of the White Wolf that got themselves some Demigryphs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wLLsavxnBU

TheGuardianOfMetal#3661

TheWattman said:

erza321 said:

I don't think there will be an Elector Count DLC.

Although it will be interesting to see what CA has planned for Elector Counts and Dwarf Kings because some of them aren't going to Legendary Lords.

Beyond Boris and Marius Leitforf there probably won't be any further additions really. I personally would love the unlock of Nordland (Knightly Orders here being Sons of Manann and Order of the Winter Throne), but that's very unlikely. At most they might recieve unique models, but nothing further. As for the Dwarfs, the remaining Kings don't really offer that much. Alrik of Karak Hirn isn't known to venture outside his hold and thus would start in Hirn, which is in the next province over to Karaz-a-Karak. An unappealing start, also when it comes to Barak Varr and Byrrnoth Grundadrakk. Literally the first confederation target for Throgrim and Barak Varr isn't even a credible option without naval combat to begin with. And Kazador won't make it in either since Karak Azul will be commanded by Thorek Ironbrow.

what really amuses me with the whole "they are right next to each other, that's unappealing" blabla... Mixu's LLs, Crynsos Faction unlocker (and now also Mixu's faction unlocker)...

Just because they are right next to each other doesn't mean it makes for a bad campaign, nor does it inherently make it bad.

You mention Ranulfsson... who'd also come with the Shieldbearer mount btw. he could have a new twist on the Book of Grudges, since he worked heavily on keeping Hirn's Book as empty as possible.

I do think the Elector Counts are unlikely... i think any Elector Count but Boris is now unlikely, and even Valgeir in the "probably not" area, due to CA's new found obsession with "more exotic starting positions" thanks to some folks... And the whole "more unique LL!" If CA has the choice between Elspeth on Dragon in Lustria and Marius Leitdorf next to EFFIN GELT!!!... they will go with the Graveyard Rose...

Mr_Finley7#4571

I doubt we’ll see anything besides the knights of the white wolf. Even then I’m beginning to lose hope for a playable Middenland.

apostolisp#4467

I believe The Empire still has a lot of content that could easily fit in a new Empire like faction for TWW3 (ie playable Middenland) . We could see all the unique Elector Counts, all the Knightly Orders ,a lot of leftover units plus some already existiting but tweaked ones , even characters from Black Library books all in a faction with different mechanics and this time its own rites.
Besides CA talked about playable Middenland or something like that in a recnt stream (02/2020 if I remember correctly)

Among the other things revealed, CA all but confirmed we will eventually get a Boris Todbringer campaign in Middenland, and that they would love to do a Red Duke campaign in Bretonnia, meaning both free-to-play lords might finally become playable

https://www.strategygamer.com/articles/total-war-warhammer-3-reveal/

Draxynnic#3149

apostolisp said:

I believe The Empire still has a lot of content that could easily fit in a new Empire like faction for TWW3 (ie playable Middenland) . We could see all the unique Elector Counts, all the Knightly Orders ,a lot of leftover units plus some already existiting but tweaked ones , even characters from Black Library books all in a faction with different mechanics and this time its own rites.
Besides CA talked about playable Middenland or something like that in a recnt stream (02/2020 if I remember correctly)

Among the other things revealed, CA all but confirmed we will eventually get a Boris Todbringer campaign in Middenland, and that they would love to do a Red Duke campaign in Bretonnia, meaning both free-to-play lords might finally become playable

https://www.strategygamer.com/articles/total-war-warhammer-3-reveal/

Why is everyone so obsessed about making Middenland into a separate list? It's still part of the Empire, and most of its units are going to be shared with the Empire. At most, have a few units that are exclusive to Middenheim starts, just like, oh, four out of six High Elf playable factions.

TheWattman#7460

Draxynnic said:

Why is everyone so obsessed about making Middenland into a separate list? It's still part of the Empire, and most of its units are going to be shared with the Empire. At most, have a few units that are exclusive to Middenheim starts, just like, oh, four out of six High Elf playable factions.

Indeed, here is my version of the Middenland DLC:

Grand Master (Lord)
Ulric Warrior Priest (Hero)
Hunting Hounds
Wolf-Kin
Teutogen Guard
Knights Panther
Knights of the White Wolf
Maybe Children of Ulric
+ ROR