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Hate for mounts all of a sudden

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  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,192
    Uagrim said:

    Tayvar said:

    As I said, a lot of plot armor, and in Warhammer one need to be on the power level of Abhorash to not be curb-stomped by a Dragon in a duel, same goes for Mammoth, so CA had got that part right.

    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Abhorash

    Gotrek went up against things worse than dragons and won.
    I clearly said "one need to be on the power level of Abhorash", Gotrek is one of the most OP Characters in Warhammer's Lore, to a ridiculous level, but it not shows in both Tabletop and Total War Stats, so it's likely mostly Plot Armor. I made a point by saying that a Random Marauder Chieftain is going to be curb-stomped by a Dragon in a one-on-one fight, Warhammer is a relatively realistic setting in comparison to common fantasy settings, random dudes don't stand much of a chance in a straight up fight against a Dragon, without being torn to shreds in a matter of seconds, think of Warhammer more like a Song of Ice and Fire than Dungeons & Dragons.

    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CurbStompBattle
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,830
    Tayvar said:

    Uagrim said:

    Tayvar said:

    As I said, a lot of plot armor, and in Warhammer one need to be on the power level of Abhorash to not be curb-stomped by a Dragon in a duel, same goes for Mammoth, so CA had got that part right.

    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Abhorash

    Gotrek went up against things worse than dragons and won.
    I clearly said "one need to be on the power level of Abhorash", Gotrek is one of the most OP Characters in Warhammer's Lore, to a ridiculous level, but it not shows in both Tabletop and Total War Stats, so it's likely mostly Plot Armor. I made a point by saying that a Random Marauder Chieftain is going to be curb-stomped by a Dragon in a one-on-one fight, Warhammer is a relatively realistic setting in comparison to common fantasy settings, random dudes don't stand much of a chance in a straight up fight against a Dragon, without being torn to shreds in a matter of seconds, think of Warhammer more like a Song of Ice and Fire than Dungeons & Dragons.

    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CurbStompBattle
    "it's plot armour"... so is Abhorash. who is probably the most overhyped Warhammer Fantasy character, with his fanboys basically going "who he could beat anyone!!!" because he never did anything aside of killing a dragon (whoopee!) and turning a few guys... and especially with the Red Duke he was a huge arse.

    the TT and TW stats of Course can't reflect Gotrek's actual prowess because otherwise you wouldn't be able to kill him :tongue:

    Most major victories Gotrek Won, was a fight that usually left him badly injured himself. The fight against the Bloodthirster in Karak Dum? Won thanks to Felix help, just like the Troll in Vala Azril-Ungol. By the End he simply legitimately was that good and tough, when he slapped Be'lakor with the aforementioned Bloodthirster.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN!

    #PrayForBorisBokha (don't you dare kill of one of the 2 bigname Kislev characters in Backstory... he's the Bear guy!)

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,192

    Tayvar said:

    Uagrim said:

    Tayvar said:

    As I said, a lot of plot armor, and in Warhammer one need to be on the power level of Abhorash to not be curb-stomped by a Dragon in a duel, same goes for Mammoth, so CA had got that part right.

    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Abhorash

    Gotrek went up against things worse than dragons and won.
    I clearly said "one need to be on the power level of Abhorash", Gotrek is one of the most OP Characters in Warhammer's Lore, to a ridiculous level, but it not shows in both Tabletop and Total War Stats, so it's likely mostly Plot Armor. I made a point by saying that a Random Marauder Chieftain is going to be curb-stomped by a Dragon in a one-on-one fight, Warhammer is a relatively realistic setting in comparison to common fantasy settings, random dudes don't stand much of a chance in a straight up fight against a Dragon, without being torn to shreds in a matter of seconds, think of Warhammer more like a Song of Ice and Fire than Dungeons & Dragons.

    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CurbStompBattle
    "it's plot armour"... so is Abhorash. who is probably the most overhyped Warhammer Fantasy character, with his fanboys basically going "who he could beat anyone!!!" because he never did anything aside of killing a dragon (whoopee!) and turning a few guys... and especially with the Red Duke he was a huge arse.

    the TT and TW stats of Course can't reflect Gotrek's actual prowess because otherwise you wouldn't be able to kill him :tongue:

    Most major victories Gotrek Won, was a fight that usually left him badly injured himself. The fight against the Bloodthirster in Karak Dum? Won thanks to Felix help, just like the Troll in Vala Azril-Ungol. By the End he simply legitimately was that good and tough, when he slapped Be'lakor with the aforementioned Bloodthirster.
    Abhorash is on the Green Knight's League, the End Times had answered that, and also shown that Abhorash is not a 'invincible hero'. Abhorash is a First Generation Vampire, and the founder of the most martial bloodline, Abhorash background and nature justify his high power level. Gotrek Stats are underwhelming because otherwise otherwise Gotrek be unkillable? being unkillable is a ridiculous power level for a stunty, also GW and CA could gave Gotrek better Stats if he is really that strong, why Gotrek have lower Stats than other Dwarf Characters? even Dwarf Characters who don't have an Axe similar to his own? also no way that Gotrek could be stronger than Tyrion while he wield the Sword of Khaine, the Sword of Khaine is established as the most powerful weapon in the Warhammer Setting.

    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Sword_of_Khaine
  • psychoakpsychoak Registered Users Posts: 3,283
    Xenos7 said:

    Artjuh90 said:

    psychoak said:

    I don't. Doing something in single player because it's there, is **** ****. You deserve it if you're a masochistic bastard and torture yourself on purpose.

    The player doesn't control the AI however, and the AI participates in monster mount madness 100% of the time. So whether we choose to have our stupidly powerful ultimate caster hero on a broke ass monster mount he's not physically capable of riding or not, we do have to put up with the AI always using it.

    Ye cause AI battles are so damn hard.
    AI is so smart and always utilize units so damn well.


    o wait nvm
    Man, are you pretending to be that oblivious?

    Some people actually give a damn about the setting! Seeing Teclis, who has a very defined character and abilities on a damn monster parrot is about as dumb as having Karl Franz mount a Taun Taun and swinging a lightsaber around while mumbling about the Force, it's totally off!
    You folks really have to explain me why it is so weird that Teclis has bound an Arcane Phoenix and rides it in battle. For the life of me, I can't understand. Does he hate birds? Is he allergic to feathers? Because it looks quite plausible to me that a strong mage rides a strong beast known to be an incarnation of magic.
    The whole "fragile caster rides monster of doom and thus becomes invincible" bit isn't enough eh?

    Plot reason from the lore is pretty stark and inarguable.

    A Flamespyre Phoenix is constantly burning and attacks by exploding in massive flames and leaving charred corpses in it's wake. When the flames go out and it turns into a Frostheart Phoenix, it becomes encased in ice and radiates a cold so powerful that everything around it slowly freezes.

    This naturally requires special enchanted armor to ride one. You burn to death/freeze depending on the phoenix's age. Frail little Teclis isn't even wearing a suit of armor, let alone the special enchanted heavy armor worn by the Phoenix Guard and the Annointed of Asuryan. His 15 armor in TW is probably to account for them turning his fancy hat into a helmet, and giving him what looks like light chest armor, but on TT he has zero armor, as most casters do.
  • TheLowKingTheLowKing Registered Users Posts: 203
    Screw monster mounts, make Thorgrims Throne of Power the strength it should be. In the Tabletop it made him tankier than a dragon.
    Tayvar said:



    Abhorash is on the Green Knight's League, the End Times had answered that, and also shown that Abhorash is not a 'invincible hero'. Abhorash is a First Generation Vampire, and the founder of the most martial bloodline, Abhorash background and nature justify his high power level. Gotrek Stats are underwhelming because otherwise otherwise Gotrek be unkillable? being unkillable is a ridiculous power level for a stunty, also GW and CA could gave Gotrek better Stats if he is really that strong, why Gotrek have lower Stats than other Dwarf Characters? even Dwarf Characters who don't have an Axe similar to his own? also no way that Gotrek could be stronger than Tyrion while he wield the Sword of Khaine, the Sword of Khaine is established as the most powerful weapon in the Warhammer Setting.

    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Sword_of_Khaine

    The last time Gotrek had rules in the tabletop were from 6th edition, released in 2000 which was only a couple of books into his series. The stats of the characters you are comparing him to are from 8th edtion, which had some very different rules. The Gotrek most people talk about in threads like this is the one in the last few books leading up to Slayer (2015, a dozen books later) where he literally becomes a God.

    Its hard to compare weapons because the actual stats of things varied a lot from the lore and there were some incredibly powerful weapons out there. The Sword of Khaine is "sometimes" seen the most powerful weapon, but its always hard to compare because every races lore hyped up their own stuff in their army books (where the lore is generally taken from). To the Elves the Sword of Khaine was the most powerful relic ever, the weapon of a god, to the Dwarfs the axes of Grimnir had the same story.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,830
    Tayvar said:

    Tayvar said:

    Uagrim said:

    Tayvar said:

    As I said, a lot of plot armor, and in Warhammer one need to be on the power level of Abhorash to not be curb-stomped by a Dragon in a duel, same goes for Mammoth, so CA had got that part right.

    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Abhorash

    Gotrek went up against things worse than dragons and won.
    I clearly said "one need to be on the power level of Abhorash", Gotrek is one of the most OP Characters in Warhammer's Lore, to a ridiculous level, but it not shows in both Tabletop and Total War Stats, so it's likely mostly Plot Armor. I made a point by saying that a Random Marauder Chieftain is going to be curb-stomped by a Dragon in a one-on-one fight, Warhammer is a relatively realistic setting in comparison to common fantasy settings, random dudes don't stand much of a chance in a straight up fight against a Dragon, without being torn to shreds in a matter of seconds, think of Warhammer more like a Song of Ice and Fire than Dungeons & Dragons.

    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CurbStompBattle
    "it's plot armour"... so is Abhorash. who is probably the most overhyped Warhammer Fantasy character, with his fanboys basically going "who he could beat anyone!!!" because he never did anything aside of killing a dragon (whoopee!) and turning a few guys... and especially with the Red Duke he was a huge arse.

    the TT and TW stats of Course can't reflect Gotrek's actual prowess because otherwise you wouldn't be able to kill him :tongue:

    Most major victories Gotrek Won, was a fight that usually left him badly injured himself. The fight against the Bloodthirster in Karak Dum? Won thanks to Felix help, just like the Troll in Vala Azril-Ungol. By the End he simply legitimately was that good and tough, when he slapped Be'lakor with the aforementioned Bloodthirster.
    Abhorash is on the Green Knight's League, the End Times had answered that, and also shown that Abhorash is not a 'invincible hero'. Abhorash is a First Generation Vampire, and the founder of the most martial bloodline, Abhorash background and nature justify his high power level. Gotrek Stats are underwhelming because otherwise otherwise Gotrek be unkillable? being unkillable is a ridiculous power level for a stunty, also GW and CA could gave Gotrek better Stats if he is really that strong, why Gotrek have lower Stats than other Dwarf Characters? even Dwarf Characters who don't have an Axe similar to his own? also no way that Gotrek could be stronger than Tyrion while he wield the Sword of Khaine, the Sword of Khaine is established as the most powerful weapon in the Warhammer Setting.

    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Sword_of_Khaine
    Point 1) Shove your WH Wiki links and TV tropes links somewhere.

    2) You haven't seen Abhorash's fanboys, I assume. Because according to them, he could beat Archaon with one arm tied on the back, while being a noble Champion of the rightless (just look at the Red Duke....)

    Even the End Times showing of Abhorash wasn't that impressive, since we only hear of it second hand.

    Meanwhile, with Gotrek we know his deeds and what he defeated... he made a Keeper of Secrets scamper back into the Realm of chaos and sank a black ark. He killed a Chaos Giant, he killed an insectoid monstrosity that made a deal with the ruinous powers. He defeated Krell, and a Bright Wizard who had joined the ruinous Powers...

    And in many cases, he came close to finding his Doom.

    As it was said before, Gotrek's Rules are 6th Edition, and stats do not always represent Lore/other way round.

    Also, in regards of Gotrek's Rules... these are his newest rules:


    and reminder... his new Axe is WEAKER than his old one. Gotrek is still looking for his old Axe... and Felix.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN!

    #PrayForBorisBokha (don't you dare kill of one of the 2 bigname Kislev characters in Backstory... he's the Bear guy!)

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 10,030

    Tayvar said:

    Tayvar said:

    Uagrim said:

    Tayvar said:

    As I said, a lot of plot armor, and in Warhammer one need to be on the power level of Abhorash to not be curb-stomped by a Dragon in a duel, same goes for Mammoth, so CA had got that part right.

    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Abhorash

    Gotrek went up against things worse than dragons and won.
    I clearly said "one need to be on the power level of Abhorash", Gotrek is one of the most OP Characters in Warhammer's Lore, to a ridiculous level, but it not shows in both Tabletop and Total War Stats, so it's likely mostly Plot Armor. I made a point by saying that a Random Marauder Chieftain is going to be curb-stomped by a Dragon in a one-on-one fight, Warhammer is a relatively realistic setting in comparison to common fantasy settings, random dudes don't stand much of a chance in a straight up fight against a Dragon, without being torn to shreds in a matter of seconds, think of Warhammer more like a Song of Ice and Fire than Dungeons & Dragons.

    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CurbStompBattle
    "it's plot armour"... so is Abhorash. who is probably the most overhyped Warhammer Fantasy character, with his fanboys basically going "who he could beat anyone!!!" because he never did anything aside of killing a dragon (whoopee!) and turning a few guys... and especially with the Red Duke he was a huge arse.

    the TT and TW stats of Course can't reflect Gotrek's actual prowess because otherwise you wouldn't be able to kill him :tongue:

    Most major victories Gotrek Won, was a fight that usually left him badly injured himself. The fight against the Bloodthirster in Karak Dum? Won thanks to Felix help, just like the Troll in Vala Azril-Ungol. By the End he simply legitimately was that good and tough, when he slapped Be'lakor with the aforementioned Bloodthirster.
    Abhorash is on the Green Knight's League, the End Times had answered that, and also shown that Abhorash is not a 'invincible hero'. Abhorash is a First Generation Vampire, and the founder of the most martial bloodline, Abhorash background and nature justify his high power level. Gotrek Stats are underwhelming because otherwise otherwise Gotrek be unkillable? being unkillable is a ridiculous power level for a stunty, also GW and CA could gave Gotrek better Stats if he is really that strong, why Gotrek have lower Stats than other Dwarf Characters? even Dwarf Characters who don't have an Axe similar to his own? also no way that Gotrek could be stronger than Tyrion while he wield the Sword of Khaine, the Sword of Khaine is established as the most powerful weapon in the Warhammer Setting.

    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Sword_of_Khaine
    Point 1) Shove your WH Wiki links and TV tropes links somewhere.

    2) You haven't seen Abhorash's fanboys, I assume. Because according to them, he could beat Archaon with one arm tied on the back, while being a noble Champion of the rightless (just look at the Red Duke....)

    Even the End Times showing of Abhorash wasn't that impressive, since we only hear of it second hand.

    Meanwhile, with Gotrek we know his deeds and what he defeated... he made a Keeper of Secrets scamper back into the Realm of chaos and sank a black ark. He killed a Chaos Giant, he killed an insectoid monstrosity that made a deal with the ruinous powers. He defeated Krell, and a Bright Wizard who had joined the ruinous Powers...

    And in many cases, he came close to finding his Doom.

    As it was said before, Gotrek's Rules are 6th Edition, and stats do not always represent Lore/other way round.

    Also, in regards of Gotrek's Rules... these are his newest rules:


    and reminder... his new Axe is WEAKER than his old one. Gotrek is still looking for his old Axe... and Felix.
    i thought Felix was more important for him than his axe.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,830

    Tayvar said:

    Tayvar said:

    Uagrim said:

    Tayvar said:

    As I said, a lot of plot armor, and in Warhammer one need to be on the power level of Abhorash to not be curb-stomped by a Dragon in a duel, same goes for Mammoth, so CA had got that part right.

    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Abhorash

    Gotrek went up against things worse than dragons and won.
    I clearly said "one need to be on the power level of Abhorash", Gotrek is one of the most OP Characters in Warhammer's Lore, to a ridiculous level, but it not shows in both Tabletop and Total War Stats, so it's likely mostly Plot Armor. I made a point by saying that a Random Marauder Chieftain is going to be curb-stomped by a Dragon in a one-on-one fight, Warhammer is a relatively realistic setting in comparison to common fantasy settings, random dudes don't stand much of a chance in a straight up fight against a Dragon, without being torn to shreds in a matter of seconds, think of Warhammer more like a Song of Ice and Fire than Dungeons & Dragons.

    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CurbStompBattle
    "it's plot armour"... so is Abhorash. who is probably the most overhyped Warhammer Fantasy character, with his fanboys basically going "who he could beat anyone!!!" because he never did anything aside of killing a dragon (whoopee!) and turning a few guys... and especially with the Red Duke he was a huge arse.

    the TT and TW stats of Course can't reflect Gotrek's actual prowess because otherwise you wouldn't be able to kill him :tongue:

    Most major victories Gotrek Won, was a fight that usually left him badly injured himself. The fight against the Bloodthirster in Karak Dum? Won thanks to Felix help, just like the Troll in Vala Azril-Ungol. By the End he simply legitimately was that good and tough, when he slapped Be'lakor with the aforementioned Bloodthirster.
    Abhorash is on the Green Knight's League, the End Times had answered that, and also shown that Abhorash is not a 'invincible hero'. Abhorash is a First Generation Vampire, and the founder of the most martial bloodline, Abhorash background and nature justify his high power level. Gotrek Stats are underwhelming because otherwise otherwise Gotrek be unkillable? being unkillable is a ridiculous power level for a stunty, also GW and CA could gave Gotrek better Stats if he is really that strong, why Gotrek have lower Stats than other Dwarf Characters? even Dwarf Characters who don't have an Axe similar to his own? also no way that Gotrek could be stronger than Tyrion while he wield the Sword of Khaine, the Sword of Khaine is established as the most powerful weapon in the Warhammer Setting.

    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Sword_of_Khaine
    Point 1) Shove your WH Wiki links and TV tropes links somewhere.

    2) You haven't seen Abhorash's fanboys, I assume. Because according to them, he could beat Archaon with one arm tied on the back, while being a noble Champion of the rightless (just look at the Red Duke....)

    Even the End Times showing of Abhorash wasn't that impressive, since we only hear of it second hand.

    Meanwhile, with Gotrek we know his deeds and what he defeated... he made a Keeper of Secrets scamper back into the Realm of chaos and sank a black ark. He killed a Chaos Giant, he killed an insectoid monstrosity that made a deal with the ruinous powers. He defeated Krell, and a Bright Wizard who had joined the ruinous Powers...

    And in many cases, he came close to finding his Doom.

    As it was said before, Gotrek's Rules are 6th Edition, and stats do not always represent Lore/other way round.

    Also, in regards of Gotrek's Rules... these are his newest rules:


    and reminder... his new Axe is WEAKER than his old one. Gotrek is still looking for his old Axe... and Felix.
    i thought Felix was more important for him than his axe.
    He is, but Gotrek Still wants his Axe back :smiley: which to me implies that he thinks the Axe of Grimnir is more powerful than the AoS Axe
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN!

    #PrayForBorisBokha (don't you dare kill of one of the 2 bigname Kislev characters in Backstory... he's the Bear guy!)

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • BrynjarKBrynjarK Registered Users Posts: 755
    I kinda like Wulfriks mounts, being the ultimate dualist, he can dual anything from men to monsters and win
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 18,165
    BrynjarK said:

    I kinda like Wulfriks mounts, being the ultimate dualist, he can dual anything from men to monsters and win

    Well but on his mammoth he can’t duel anyone because he’s just sitting on top doing nothing. That’s not how Wulfrik would fight a battle.

    There is no honor in letting your mount do all the work.
    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,432
    BrynjarK said:

    I kinda like Wulfriks mounts, being the ultimate dualist, he can dual anything from men to monsters and win

    His introductory scene shows him taking down a giant...while on foot. His entire shtick is challenging other champions to test their mettle against his. This is not achieved when he sits stiffly on a Mammoth and never even lifts a finger.

    No, the mammoth has to go just like the parrot.

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