Archaon's Lieutenants - Should/Will they come?

TheWattman#7460

Chaos is facing a major revamp in WH3, a form that we can as of now not really determine. But lately I have been thinking about the Norscan Allegiance mechanic and how that could be transfered over to Chaos Undivided as perhaps one of their mechanics. Or in any case, some sort of proving mechanics were Undivided earns the favour of all four gods with the ultimate goal of unlocking a god-specific lord and perhaps some units from that god's roster. Im thinking specifically of Archaon's Lieutenants, the representatives of each god to command alongside him. These are:

Haargoth the Bloodied - Khorne: The Jarl of the Graeling Tribe. He would've been a good candidate for a Norscan lord had CA gone for a loreful setup for Norsca. He initially did battle with Archaon and lost, but Archaon spared him, recognizing his strength.

Melekh the Changer - Tzeentch: Of the Aeslings, Melekh journeyed to the Realms of Chaos and forced an army of Tzeentch Horrors on to his own side through his iron will. He even managed to break a Lord of Change into possesing his body.

Feytor the Tainted - Nurgle: From the Empire originally, he was driven out for praying to all gods to save his family from plague and Nurgle answered. He made his way to Norsca and became a tribal leader until Nurgle ordered him to march with Archaon.

Styrkaar of the Sortsvinaer - Slaanesh: The son of a Norse Chieftain, he murdered his father who grew jealous of his son's power. He then killed the first lieutenant of Slaanesh, Vandred the Majestic and took his place at Archaon's side.

Then the question is if these characters should be represented as heroes or as lords. Both versions have merit. As heroes Archaon could have them in his own army in a more Undivided fashion. But as lords and especially in combination with the possibility of integrating god-specific units into a mixed roster in Undivided, they could lead a god-specific army in order to give the impression of 4 individual gods marching under one banner.

What do you think guys? Should/Will the Lieutenants come to WH3 and how will they be handled if they do?

Rob18446

Nah the WoC and chaos in general has a whole lot more important lords to implement.

Nimdull

Just one name CROM

Red_Dox#2328

I would not mind to see the four

as some part for Archaon only.

• Like Wulfharts Lustria 5 or now Imrikes pokemon mechanic.
  
• Or they could be pressed into Archaons research tree (like the greenskin generic tree has now two examples).
  
• We also could get them just as boring follower treatment, like some other LLs have associated names there (Like Malus and Silas).
  

However, if we talk playable god dedicated LLs, I seriously hope we get more prominent faces who are not lapdogs for Archaon.

• Arbaal, The Undefeated is Khornes greatest mortal champion and that **** even was running with Everchosen Asavar Kul two hundred years ago. He actually deserves to be the prime candidate for WoC Khorne mono faction.
  
  Having a own unique mount also comes handy.
  
• Slaanesh is a problem here, since we already have Sigvald the rent boy. I rather would like to see my snek waifu (yeah, take that XCOM!) Dechala. But those CA meanies probably deny her
  
  Just look at her beauty, and imagine her animated on the battlefield...
  
• Nurgle also has plenty of candidates. I assume that Festus (since armbyook 8th) might be a prime suspect. However, Dark Lands campaign map can also be an opportunity for Tamurkhan himself.
  
  Riding a Toad Dragon also certainly give shim an edge over other candidates.
  
• Tzeentch again is a problem. I would love to have Egrimm van Horstman around.
  
  Because after the Eshin gameplay mechanic and hopefully a future special spy/cult/sabotage mechanic for Lahmia, a Chaos Cult gameplay mechanic around him would be very fitting. Just imagine you could corrupt and take over entire Empire/Kislev/Bretonnia/Norsca provinces without battle? However, Vilitch was the 8th edition armybook poster boy. So his chances are slightly better. But then on the other hand, we had already hints toward Galrauch
  
  so I suspect him to show up 100%. if as LL or as champion like Kroak or whatever, who knows.
  

-----Red Dox

TheWattman#7460

Red_Dox said:

I would not mind to see the four

as some part for Archaon only

• Like Wulfharts Lustria 5 or now Imrikes pokemon mechanic.
  
• Or they could be pressed into Archaons research tree (like the greenskin generic tree has now two examples).
  
• We also could get them just as boring follower treatment, like some otehr LLs have associated names there (Like Malus and Silas).
  

However, if we talk playable god dedicated LLs, I seriously hope we get more prominent faces who are not lapdogs for Archaon.

• Arbaal, The Undefeated is Khornes greatest mortal champion and that **** even was running with Everchosen Asavar Kul two hundred years ago. He actually deserves to be the prime candidate for WoC Khorne mono faction.
  
  Having a own unique mount also comes handy.
  
• Slaanesh is a problem here, since we already have Sigvald the rent boy. I rather would like to see my snek waifu (yeah, take that XCOM!) Dechala. But those CA meanies probably deny her
  
  Just look at her beauty, and imagine her animated on the battlefield...
  
• Nurgle also has plenty of candidates. I assume that Festus (since armbyook 8th) might be a prime suspect. However, Dark Lands campaign map can also be an opportunity for Tamurkhan himself.
  
  Riding a Toad Dragon also certainly give shim an edge over other candidates.
  
• Tzeentch again is a problem. I would love to have Egrimm van Horstman around.
  
  Because after the Eshin gameplay mechanic and hopefully a future special spy/cult/sabotage mechanic for Lahmia, a Chaos Cult gameplay mechanic around him would be very fitting. Just imagine you could corrupt and take over entire Empire/Kislev/Bretonnia/Norsca provinces without battle? However, Vilitch was the 8th edition armybook poster boy. So his chances are slightly better. But then on the other hand, we had already hints toward Galrauch
  
  so I suspect him to show up 100%. if as LL or as champion like Kroak or whatever, who knows.
  

-----Red Dox

Tech tree version would work very well too.

As for the champions, I'd hope for the following:
Khorne 1 each: Valkia (Daemon) and Scyla (Warriors). Khorne 2 each: Skarbrand & Valkia (Daemons) and Scyla & Arbaal (Warriors)
Tzeentch 1 each: Kairos and Egrimm. Tzeentch 2 each: Kairos & Sarthorael/Changeling (might not make it due to animation difficulty) and Egrimm & Vilitch
Nurgle 1 each: Ku'gath and Tamurkhan/Festus. Nurgle 2 each: Ku'gath & Epidemius and Tamurkhan & Festus
Slaanesh 1 each: N'kari and Sigvald. Slaanesh 2 each: N'kari & Azazel and Sigvald & Dechala

TheGuardianOfMetal#3661

I don't think Arbaal the undefeated would make for a good TW WH Lord.

His whole shtick is: If he flees, he turns into a chaos spawn... which would be permanent.

yolordmcswag#6132

TheWattman said:

Red_Dox said:

I would not mind to see the four

as some part for Archaon only

• Like Wulfharts Lustria 5 or now Imrikes pokemon mechanic.
  
• Or they could be pressed into Archaons research tree (like the greenskin generic tree has now two examples).
  
• We also could get them just as boring follower treatment, like some otehr LLs have associated names there (Like Malus and Silas).
  

However, if we talk playable god dedicated LLs, I seriously hope we get more prominent faces who are not lapdogs for Archaon.

• Arbaal, The Undefeated is Khornes greatest mortal champion and that **** even was running with Everchosen Asavar Kul two hundred years ago. He actually deserves to be the prime candidate for WoC Khorne mono faction.
  
  Having a own unique mount also comes handy.
  
• Slaanesh is a problem here, since we already have Sigvald the rent boy. I rather would like to see my snek waifu (yeah, take that XCOM!) Dechala. But those CA meanies probably deny her
  
  Just look at her beauty, and imagine her animated on the battlefield...
  
• Nurgle also has plenty of candidates. I assume that Festus (since armbyook 8th) might be a prime suspect. However, Dark Lands campaign map can also be an opportunity for Tamurkhan himself.
  
  Riding a Toad Dragon also certainly give shim an edge over other candidates.
  
• Tzeentch again is a problem. I would love to have Egrimm van Horstman around.
  
  Because after the Eshin gameplay mechanic and hopefully a future special spy/cult/sabotage mechanic for Lahmia, a Chaos Cult gameplay mechanic around him would be very fitting. Just imagine you could corrupt and take over entire Empire/Kislev/Bretonnia/Norsca provinces without battle? However, Vilitch was the 8th edition armybook poster boy. So his chances are slightly better. But then on the other hand, we had already hints toward Galrauch
  
  so I suspect him to show up 100%. if as LL or as champion like Kroak or whatever, who knows.
  

-----Red Dox

Tech tree version would work very well too.

As for the champions, I'd hope for the following:
Khorne 1 each: Valkia (Daemon) and Scyla (Warriors). Khorne 2 each: Skarbrand & Valkia (Daemons) and Scyla & Arbaal (Warriors)
Tzeentch 1 each: Kairos and Egrimm. Tzeentch 2 each: Kairos & Sarthorael/Changeling (might not make it due to animation difficulty) and Egrimm & Vilitch
Nurgle 1 each: Ku'gath and Tamurkhan/Festus. Nurgle 2 each: Ku'gath & Epidemius and Tamurkhan & Festus
Slaanesh 1 each: N'kari and Sigvald. Slaanesh 2 each: N'kari & Azazel and Sigvald & Dechala

Valkia is not a deamon, and Scyla is literally a mindless beast. He could be a leader as much as a chaos warhound could. Personally, I would prefer Kha'bhanda or Skarbrand for deamons, and Valkia for the warriors.

Draculasaurus

The WoC have an enormous glut of characters, not all of them are going to make it in. Minor characters like this are good for tech-tree bonus lords at best. Proper DLC, FLC, or Core Game character choices should be reserved for the characters who have the most unique looks/skills/mechanics to make the most out of CA's budget.

TheWattman#7460

yolordmcswag said:

Valkia is not a deamon, and Scyla is literally a mindless beast. He could be a leader as much as a chaos warhound could. Personally, I would prefer Kha'bhanda or Skarbrand for deamons, and Valkia for the warriors.

Valkia is literally one of Khorne's most favoured Daemons, I don't understand why she is put in the Warrior's roster and not the Daemon's. Sure she started out as a mortal, but she's been killed and returned in the form of a Valkyrie Daemon Princess. And one of Khorne's favourites no less. Skarbrand on the other hand has royally **** Khorne off, I mean there is a reason that he is called the Exiled One. No matter how much Skarbrand slaughters, Khorne won't forgive him. It makes no sense to put him over Valkia. He can come as a Khorne DLC, but if there is only one Daemon per god, then it should be Valkia and Bloodthirsters should be restricted to generic lords.

Draculasaurus said:

The WoC have an enormous glut of characters, not all of them are going to make it in. Minor characters like this are good for tech-tree bonus lords at best. Proper DLC, FLC, or Core Game character choices should be reserved for the characters who have the most unique looks/skills/mechanics to make the most out of CA's budget.

Yeah either a tech tree or a favour system like Norsca. Of course these wouldn't be playable starter or DLC lords.

yolordmcswag#6132

TheWattman said:

yolordmcswag said:

Valkia is not a deamon, and Scyla is literally a mindless beast. He could be a leader as much as a chaos warhound could. Personally, I would prefer Kha'bhanda or Skarbrand for deamons, and Valkia for the warriors.

Valkia is literally one of Khorne's most favoured Daemons, I don't understand why she is put in the Warrior's roster and not the Daemon's. Sure she started out as a mortal, but she's been killed and returned in the form of a Valkyrie Daemon Princess. And one of Khorne's favourites no less. Skarbrand on the other hand has royally **** Khorne off, I mean there is a reason that he is called the Exiled One. No matter how much Skarbrand slaughters, Khorne won't forgive him. It makes no sense to put him over Valkia. He can come as a Khorne DLC, but if there is only one Daemon per god, then it should be Valkia and Bloodthirsters should be restricted to generic lords.

Draculasaurus said:

The WoC have an enormous glut of characters, not all of them are going to make it in. Minor characters like this are good for tech-tree bonus lords at best. Proper DLC, FLC, or Core Game character choices should be reserved for the characters who have the most unique looks/skills/mechanics to make the most out of CA's budget.

Yeah either a tech tree or a favour system like Norsca. Of course these wouldn't be playable starter or DLC lords.

She is favored by Khorne, but she is not a deamon. He brought her back to life as a mortal (as mortal as other chaos lords anyway), nowhere in her lore does it say she is a deamon. You can go on the official GW webpage right now and look her up, at the bottom of her rules page you can see various keywords, including "mortal". All deamons on the other hand have the "deamon" keyword. Now, that is AoS, but her 8th edition rules were the same, she had "Mark of Khorne" instead of "Deamon of Khorne".

I do agree about your points with Skarbrand though, which is why Kha-bandha might be a better pick for the deamons.

TheGuardianOfMetal#3661

yolordmcswag said:

TheWattman said:

yolordmcswag said:

Valkia is not a deamon, and Scyla is literally a mindless beast. He could be a leader as much as a chaos warhound could. Personally, I would prefer Kha'bhanda or Skarbrand for deamons, and Valkia for the warriors.

Valkia is literally one of Khorne's most favoured Daemons, I don't understand why she is put in the Warrior's roster and not the Daemon's. Sure she started out as a mortal, but she's been killed and returned in the form of a Valkyrie Daemon Princess. And one of Khorne's favourites no less. Skarbrand on the other hand has royally **** Khorne off, I mean there is a reason that he is called the Exiled One. No matter how much Skarbrand slaughters, Khorne won't forgive him. It makes no sense to put him over Valkia. He can come as a Khorne DLC, but if there is only one Daemon per god, then it should be Valkia and Bloodthirsters should be restricted to generic lords.

Draculasaurus said:

The WoC have an enormous glut of characters, not all of them are going to make it in. Minor characters like this are good for tech-tree bonus lords at best. Proper DLC, FLC, or Core Game character choices should be reserved for the characters who have the most unique looks/skills/mechanics to make the most out of CA's budget.

Yeah either a tech tree or a favour system like Norsca. Of course these wouldn't be playable starter or DLC lords.

She is favored by Khorne, but she is not a deamon. He brought her back to life as a mortal (as mortal as other chaos lords anyway), nowhere in her lore does it say she is a deamon. You can go on the official GW webpage right now and look her up, at the bottom of her rules page you can see various keywords, including "mortal". All deamons on the other hand have the "deamon" keyword. Now, that is AoS, but her 8th edition rules were the same, she had "Mark of Khorne" instead of "Deamon of Khorne".

I do agree about your points with Skarbrand though, which is why Kha-bandha might be a better pick for the deamons.

Kha'bandhia is a "Better" pick? Skarbrand at least did stuff before the ET, he's "Old School"... Kha'bandhia had what for WH F? AN END TIMES appearance?

SerPus#7395

TheWattman said:

I don't understand why she is put in the Warrior's roster and not the Daemon's.

Every new dawn, she descends from the skies, taking more skulls for her diabolic paramour and choosing those who will fight on in the Realm of Chaos after their death. The Warriors of Chaos fight all the harder in her presence, for it is said the gaze of Khorne lingers about her still. Many champions redouble their efforts knowing that the Blood God despises cowards and will strike down those who flee, whilst others see a chance to gain his attention on the field of slaughter, knowing that to become one of his chosen is a prize beyond measure.

yolordmcswag#6132

TheGuardianOfMetal said:

yolordmcswag said:

TheWattman said:

yolordmcswag said:

Valkia is not a deamon, and Scyla is literally a mindless beast. He could be a leader as much as a chaos warhound could. Personally, I would prefer Kha'bhanda or Skarbrand for deamons, and Valkia for the warriors.

Valkia is literally one of Khorne's most favoured Daemons, I don't understand why she is put in the Warrior's roster and not the Daemon's. Sure she started out as a mortal, but she's been killed and returned in the form of a Valkyrie Daemon Princess. And one of Khorne's favourites no less. Skarbrand on the other hand has royally **** Khorne off, I mean there is a reason that he is called the Exiled One. No matter how much Skarbrand slaughters, Khorne won't forgive him. It makes no sense to put him over Valkia. He can come as a Khorne DLC, but if there is only one Daemon per god, then it should be Valkia and Bloodthirsters should be restricted to generic lords.

Draculasaurus said:

The WoC have an enormous glut of characters, not all of them are going to make it in. Minor characters like this are good for tech-tree bonus lords at best. Proper DLC, FLC, or Core Game character choices should be reserved for the characters who have the most unique looks/skills/mechanics to make the most out of CA's budget.

Yeah either a tech tree or a favour system like Norsca. Of course these wouldn't be playable starter or DLC lords.

She is favored by Khorne, but she is not a deamon. He brought her back to life as a mortal (as mortal as other chaos lords anyway), nowhere in her lore does it say she is a deamon. You can go on the official GW webpage right now and look her up, at the bottom of her rules page you can see various keywords, including "mortal". All deamons on the other hand have the "deamon" keyword. Now, that is AoS, but her 8th edition rules were the same, she had "Mark of Khorne" instead of "Deamon of Khorne".

I do agree about your points with Skarbrand though, which is why Kha-bandha might be a better pick for the deamons.

Kha'bandhia is a "Better" pick? Skarbrand at least did stuff before the ET, he's "Old School"... Kha'bandhia had what for WH F? AN END TIMES appearance?

I said he could be better, not that he was. Skarbrand is very unique, he is(or at least was) the strongest bloodthirster, he's been in several armybooks and he even got his own unique model for AoS/40K. These are good arguments for having him be the Khorne deamon LL.

At the same time, Skarbrand has some unique disadvantages aswell. According to the lore, he is pretty much at the bottom in terms of favour with Khorne, so if game 3 has a single faction to represent the deamons of Khorne it would be a bit strange for Skarbrand to lead them. Of course, CA has made much less leader-worthy characters into LL already, but just because they throw the lore away for convenience doesn't mean I will.

The main argument for Kha'bandha is that he does not have the disadvantage Skarbrand does. If you don't agree with Skarbrand having those problems, the he is obviously the better pick. Aside from that though, Kha'bandha is the most important bloodthirster beyond Skarbrand, and he has some lore and personality to go along with. He could be the only one using the "Wrath of Khorne" variant model, making him visually different from the regular ones.

misunderstoodvampire#7653

His most important lieutenant Crom the Conqueror for sure. Having all 5 be in Archaons subfaction would be pretty cool though.

mightygloin#2446

Crom would be neat indeed. Such a lieutenant that mighty fan-favorite Grimgor couldn't beat

Uagrim#4644

Honestly for nurgle I want the glotkins more then the others.

Crossil

Styrkaar is the only one I ever considered, if Monogods happen. In which case he would be 3rd or 4th choice for me, behind N'kari, Dechala and potentially Masque of Slaanesh.

Melekh is the only other one I can imagine but Ergrimm and Aekold work better, imo.

Nurgle and Khorne have more interesting characters so they don't need them.

If Monogods don't happen, none of them will appear.

anudrek

I’d be quite happy if the end times chaos invasion had Archaon heading to the Empire, with each of the four champions hitting somewhere different. The “END OF THE WORLD” should be a global even. Not something regional.