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Highelv spears - overpriced but needed

ThePhoenixKingThePhoenixKing Registered Users Posts: 31
Spears are an important chaff unit for HE. But why should you take them? They lose against 450 Bleakswords and can't hold the line. Give them:

-25 Models
-270 HP
+3MA
+10LS
+14AP Damage
-14 Base Damage
+5 armour

Comments

  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,107
    Eh, they hold the line great and SHOULDN’T be able to beat Bleakswords. The way this game is balanced, where swords > spears, Bleakswords are SUPPOSED to counter spear-based frontlines. It would be weird if they didn’t.

    That being said, Bleakswords will NOT chew through High Elf spears quickly, especially before Martial Prowess wears off. The High Elf spears hold the line for an impressively long period of time against all but the more elite stuff that’s significantly above their price point.

    Your specific suggestions of giving them almost 80!!! leadership, + AP would make them over-powered killers, and nearly unbreakable once combined with ‘immune to psych + LD buffs’.

    Furthermore..... if you REALLY want a spear-based frontline that can BEAT chaff-level anti-infantry infantry of other races, then you don’t need to alter Spearmen at all. The High Elves already have that in the form of Silverin Guard. Silverin Guard will 1 vs 1 EVERY Greenskin infantry unit except Black Orks. They might not cost-effectively beat all of them, like Skulkers, but they will beat them.

    So yeah, mix in a few Silverins into your spear line, and you’ll get the ability to clear out chaff.
  • ThePhoenixKingThePhoenixKing Registered Users Posts: 31
    Valkaar said:

    Eh, they hold the line great and SHOULDN’T be able to beat Bleakswords. The way this game is balanced, where swords > spears, Bleakswords are SUPPOSED to counter spear-based frontlines. It would be weird if they didn’t.

    That being said, Bleakswords will NOT chew through High Elf spears quickly, especially before Martial Prowess wears off. The High Elf spears hold the line for an impressively long period of time against all but the more elite stuff that’s significantly above their price point.

    Your specific suggestions of giving them almost 80!!! leadership, + AP would make them over-powered killers, and nearly unbreakable once combined with ‘immune to psych + LD buffs’.

    Furthermore..... if you REALLY want a spear-based frontline that can BEAT chaff-level anti-infantry infantry of other races, then you don’t need to alter Spearmen at all. The High Elves already have that in the form of Silverin Guard. Silverin Guard will 1 vs 1 EVERY Greenskin infantry unit except Black Orks. They might not cost-effectively beat all of them, like Skulkers, but they will beat them.

    So yeah, mix in a few Silverins into your spear line, and you’ll get the ability to clear out chaff.

    And where are Highelv sword units?!
    And no they wouldn't be OP and it's already tested because Eternal guard with Shields is not an OP unit, right?

    The sword>spears>cavalry>swords doesn't work because faction don't have the same units. Bleakswords cost 450G but beat 500G spears. And Highelves don't have a bleaksword unit for 500 to kill them.
  • tank3487tank3487 Member Registered Users Posts: 1,667


    And where are Highelv sword units?!

    Well, you have rangers for this now. And they chew through bleakswords easy. If you need AP you have White Lions.

    Spears should lose to sword infantry, cause they are protected from frontal cav charges and can support you own Large entities in fight against enemy Large units.
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 6,370

    Spears are an important chaff unit for HE. But why should you take them? They lose against 450 Bleakswords and can't hold the line. Give them:

    -25 Models
    -270 HP
    +3MA
    +10LS
    +14AP Damage
    -14 Base Damage
    +5 armour

    this would be a nerf and HE currently don't need an AP spear unit anyway a-la Eternal Guard. The roster is fine, HE are a solid top3-top5 faction atm and they don't need to be any stronger, HE spears could use -25g buff, at the same time Silverins and a bunch of other HE new lords could use moderate nerfs.

    I saw you play a couple times on Turin's stream, I don't mean to be offensive and don't take this the wrong way but it seems to me you could still improve in your HE play, for example you picked a Star Dragon in a HE mirror which is a horrible pick due to the fire resistance of Dragon Princes. Now any HE veteran understands that and will never pick a SD, you did so let's say that your army building when it comes to HE could use some finesse and that's why you find yourself struggling and not due to HE having a bad roster.
  • ThePhoenixKingThePhoenixKing Registered Users Posts: 31
    Green0 said:

    Spears are an important chaff unit for HE. But why should you take them? They lose against 450 Bleakswords and can't hold the line. Give them:

    -25 Models
    -270 HP
    +3MA
    +10LS
    +14AP Damage
    -14 Base Damage
    +5 armour

    this would be a nerf and HE currently don't need an AP spear unit anyway a-la Eternal Guard. The roster is fine, HE are a solid top3-top5 faction atm and they don't need to be any stronger, HE spears could use -25g buff, at the same time Silverins and a bunch of other HE new lords could use moderate nerfs.

    I saw you play a couple times on Turin's stream, I don't mean to be offensive and don't take this the wrong way but it seems to me you could still improve in your HE play, for example you picked a Star Dragon in a HE mirror which is a horrible pick due to the fire resistance of Dragon Princes. Now any HE veteran understands that and will never pick a SD, you did so let's say that your army building when it comes to HE could use some finesse and that's why you find yourself struggling and not due to HE having a bad roster.
    I see my star dragon pick was sooo bad.
    But it was like 3.00 am ;)
    Usually i do better
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 6,370

    Green0 said:

    Spears are an important chaff unit for HE. But why should you take them? They lose against 450 Bleakswords and can't hold the line. Give them:

    -25 Models
    -270 HP
    +3MA
    +10LS
    +14AP Damage
    -14 Base Damage
    +5 armour

    this would be a nerf and HE currently don't need an AP spear unit anyway a-la Eternal Guard. The roster is fine, HE are a solid top3-top5 faction atm and they don't need to be any stronger, HE spears could use -25g buff, at the same time Silverins and a bunch of other HE new lords could use moderate nerfs.

    I saw you play a couple times on Turin's stream, I don't mean to be offensive and don't take this the wrong way but it seems to me you could still improve in your HE play, for example you picked a Star Dragon in a HE mirror which is a horrible pick due to the fire resistance of Dragon Princes. Now any HE veteran understands that and will never pick a SD, you did so let's say that your army building when it comes to HE could use some finesse and that's why you find yourself struggling and not due to HE having a bad roster.
    I see my star dragon pick was sooo bad.
    But it was like 3.00 am ;)
    Usually i do better
    I'm not judging your performance, in fact I rly don't care about your status as a player, all I'm saying is that I hope you won't be another one of those "HE are underpowered" fun boys. I was like that for a long time but now even as a fairly biased HE main can say that the faction is fine, fun to play and very diverse in its playstyles. Most veterans (and me) will agree that HE spears need -25g but given HE's power level currently this is not a strong priority because 25g tax on spearmen doesn't lose you games.
  • ThePhoenixKingThePhoenixKing Registered Users Posts: 31
    Green0 said:

    Green0 said:

    Spears are an important chaff unit for HE. But why should you take them? They lose against 450 Bleakswords and can't hold the line. Give them:

    -25 Models
    -270 HP
    +3MA
    +10LS
    +14AP Damage
    -14 Base Damage
    +5 armour

    this would be a nerf and HE currently don't need an AP spear unit anyway a-la Eternal Guard. The roster is fine, HE are a solid top3-top5 faction atm and they don't need to be any stronger, HE spears could use -25g buff, at the same time Silverins and a bunch of other HE new lords could use moderate nerfs.

    I saw you play a couple times on Turin's stream, I don't mean to be offensive and don't take this the wrong way but it seems to me you could still improve in your HE play, for example you picked a Star Dragon in a HE mirror which is a horrible pick due to the fire resistance of Dragon Princes. Now any HE veteran understands that and will never pick a SD, you did so let's say that your army building when it comes to HE could use some finesse and that's why you find yourself struggling and not due to HE having a bad roster.
    I see my star dragon pick was sooo bad.
    But it was like 3.00 am ;)
    Usually i do better
    I'm not judging your performance, in fact I rly don't care about your status as a player, all I'm saying is that I hope you won't be another one of those "HE are underpowered" fun boys. I was like that for a long time but now even as a fairly biased HE main can say that the faction is fine, fun to play and very diverse in its playstyles. Most veterans (and me) will agree that HE spears need -25g but given HE's power level currently this is not a strong priority because 25g tax on spearmen doesn't lose you games.
    I'm not one of those fun boys :)
    I just think it would be good if a 500G unit beat a 450G unit. Wouldn't be a big deal to do that and it would be lore friendly.
  • ThePhoenixKingThePhoenixKing Registered Users Posts: 31
    If u argument with swords>spears why does Phoenixguard beat Swordmasters
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 6,370

    Green0 said:

    Green0 said:

    Spears are an important chaff unit for HE. But why should you take them? They lose against 450 Bleakswords and can't hold the line. Give them:

    -25 Models
    -270 HP
    +3MA
    +10LS
    +14AP Damage
    -14 Base Damage
    +5 armour

    this would be a nerf and HE currently don't need an AP spear unit anyway a-la Eternal Guard. The roster is fine, HE are a solid top3-top5 faction atm and they don't need to be any stronger, HE spears could use -25g buff, at the same time Silverins and a bunch of other HE new lords could use moderate nerfs.

    I saw you play a couple times on Turin's stream, I don't mean to be offensive and don't take this the wrong way but it seems to me you could still improve in your HE play, for example you picked a Star Dragon in a HE mirror which is a horrible pick due to the fire resistance of Dragon Princes. Now any HE veteran understands that and will never pick a SD, you did so let's say that your army building when it comes to HE could use some finesse and that's why you find yourself struggling and not due to HE having a bad roster.
    I see my star dragon pick was sooo bad.
    But it was like 3.00 am ;)
    Usually i do better
    I'm not judging your performance, in fact I rly don't care about your status as a player, all I'm saying is that I hope you won't be another one of those "HE are underpowered" fun boys. I was like that for a long time but now even as a fairly biased HE main can say that the faction is fine, fun to play and very diverse in its playstyles. Most veterans (and me) will agree that HE spears need -25g but given HE's power level currently this is not a strong priority because 25g tax on spearmen doesn't lose you games.
    I'm not one of those fun boys :)
    I just think it would be good if a 500G unit beat a 450G unit. Wouldn't be a big deal to do that and it would be lore friendly.
    iirc from memory HE spears beat Bleakswords I did the testing a while ago. Emp swordsmen beat HE spears but Bleakswords don't. This is from memory.

    If u argument with swords>spears why does Phoenixguard beat Swordmasters

    Swordmasters beat PG already.
  • ThePhoenixKingThePhoenixKing Registered Users Posts: 31
    Green0 said:

    Green0 said:

    Green0 said:

    Spears are an important chaff unit for HE. But why should you take them? They lose against 450 Bleakswords and can't hold the line. Give them:

    -25 Models
    -270 HP
    +3MA
    +10LS
    +14AP Damage
    -14 Base Damage
    +5 armour

    this would be a nerf and HE currently don't need an AP spear unit anyway a-la Eternal Guard. The roster is fine, HE are a solid top3-top5 faction atm and they don't need to be any stronger, HE spears could use -25g buff, at the same time Silverins and a bunch of other HE new lords could use moderate nerfs.

    I saw you play a couple times on Turin's stream, I don't mean to be offensive and don't take this the wrong way but it seems to me you could still improve in your HE play, for example you picked a Star Dragon in a HE mirror which is a horrible pick due to the fire resistance of Dragon Princes. Now any HE veteran understands that and will never pick a SD, you did so let's say that your army building when it comes to HE could use some finesse and that's why you find yourself struggling and not due to HE having a bad roster.
    I see my star dragon pick was sooo bad.
    But it was like 3.00 am ;)
    Usually i do better
    I'm not judging your performance, in fact I rly don't care about your status as a player, all I'm saying is that I hope you won't be another one of those "HE are underpowered" fun boys. I was like that for a long time but now even as a fairly biased HE main can say that the faction is fine, fun to play and very diverse in its playstyles. Most veterans (and me) will agree that HE spears need -25g but given HE's power level currently this is not a strong priority because 25g tax on spearmen doesn't lose you games.
    I'm not one of those fun boys :)
    I just think it would be good if a 500G unit beat a 450G unit. Wouldn't be a big deal to do that and it would be lore friendly.
    iirc from memory HE spears beat Bleakswords I did the testing a while ago. Emp swordsmen beat HE spears but Bleakswords don't. This is from memory.

    If u argument with swords>spears why does Phoenixguard beat Swordmasters

    Swordmasters beat PG already.
    Bleakswords beat spears. Tseted it with a friend yesterday
  • WojmirVonCarsteinWojmirVonCarstein Registered Users Posts: 1,008

    Green0 said:

    Green0 said:

    Green0 said:

    Spears are an important chaff unit for HE. But why should you take them? They lose against 450 Bleakswords and can't hold the line. Give them:

    -25 Models
    -270 HP
    +3MA
    +10LS
    +14AP Damage
    -14 Base Damage
    +5 armour

    this would be a nerf and HE currently don't need an AP spear unit anyway a-la Eternal Guard. The roster is fine, HE are a solid top3-top5 faction atm and they don't need to be any stronger, HE spears could use -25g buff, at the same time Silverins and a bunch of other HE new lords could use moderate nerfs.

    I saw you play a couple times on Turin's stream, I don't mean to be offensive and don't take this the wrong way but it seems to me you could still improve in your HE play, for example you picked a Star Dragon in a HE mirror which is a horrible pick due to the fire resistance of Dragon Princes. Now any HE veteran understands that and will never pick a SD, you did so let's say that your army building when it comes to HE could use some finesse and that's why you find yourself struggling and not due to HE having a bad roster.
    I see my star dragon pick was sooo bad.
    But it was like 3.00 am ;)
    Usually i do better
    I'm not judging your performance, in fact I rly don't care about your status as a player, all I'm saying is that I hope you won't be another one of those "HE are underpowered" fun boys. I was like that for a long time but now even as a fairly biased HE main can say that the faction is fine, fun to play and very diverse in its playstyles. Most veterans (and me) will agree that HE spears need -25g but given HE's power level currently this is not a strong priority because 25g tax on spearmen doesn't lose you games.
    I'm not one of those fun boys :)
    I just think it would be good if a 500G unit beat a 450G unit. Wouldn't be a big deal to do that and it would be lore friendly.
    iirc from memory HE spears beat Bleakswords I did the testing a while ago. Emp swordsmen beat HE spears but Bleakswords don't. This is from memory.

    If u argument with swords>spears why does Phoenixguard beat Swordmasters

    Swordmasters beat PG already.
    Bleakswords beat spears. Tseted it with a friend yesterday
    If spearmen beat bleakswords, then what would be the purpose of the bleakswords if they could not beat a spear unit that is around their cost?

    Also, why would you ever take rangers then for 600g, when for 500g you had a HE unit that not only does well against large targets, but also beats chaff?
  • BjornNorlinderBjornNorlinder Registered Users Posts: 222
    Not every race is gonna have all sorts of tools. De have a sword chaff inf, doesnt mean helf need one. Those small touches are what as a whole asymmetrically balances the game and offer unique races, unlike most other total wars
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 6,370
    edited June 15

    Not every race is gonna have all sorts of tools. De have a sword chaff inf, doesnt mean helf need one. Those small touches are what as a whole asymmetrically balances the game and offer unique races, unlike most other total wars

    this vision has been long abandoned. For example, LZ as a faction have all tools. You could say they don’t have archers, and you’d be right but what is intended here is that they have tools to answer most army compositions/unit types. For example they can counter mass cav armies, they can counter strong SEM and they can counter elite infantry all relatively easily.

    Now HE are in the same boat for the most part just pointing out that I don’t agree with your statement of every faction being asymmetrically balanced.
  • BjornNorlinderBjornNorlinder Registered Users Posts: 222
    edited June 15
    Green0 said:

    Not every race is gonna have all sorts of tools. De have a sword chaff inf, doesnt mean helf need one. Those small touches are what as a whole asymmetrically balances the game and offer unique races, unlike most other total wars

    this vision has been long abandoned. For example, LZ as a faction have all tools. You could say they don’t have archers, and you’d be right but what is intended here is that they have tools to answer most army compositions/unit types. For example they can counter mass cav armies, they can counter strong SEM and they can counter elite infantry all relatively easily.

    Now HE are in the same boat for the most part just pointing out that I don’t agree with your statement of every faction being asymmetrically balanced.
    Ur choosing the races that were well suited to deal with all sorts of threats in the tt. Helf, lzm, etc

    Regardless helf struggle vs heavy cavs and lizzies vs ranged heavy
  • BjornNorlinderBjornNorlinder Registered Users Posts: 222
    Green0 said:

    Not every race is gonna have all sorts of tools. De have a sword chaff inf, doesnt mean helf need one. Those small touches are what as a whole asymmetrically balances the game and offer unique races, unlike most other total wars

    this vision has been long abandoned. For example, LZ as a faction have all tools. You could say they don’t have archers, and you’d be right but what is intended here is that they have tools to answer most army compositions/unit types. For example they can counter mass cav armies, they can counter strong SEM and they can counter elite infantry all relatively easily.

    Now HE are in the same boat for the most part just pointing out that I don’t agree with your statement of every faction being asymmetrically balanced.
    Ones struggles vs heavy cavs, the other vs mass powder range

    Also their roster is staying true to their tt.
  • ThePhoenixKingThePhoenixKing Registered Users Posts: 31

    Green0 said:

    Not every race is gonna have all sorts of tools. De have a sword chaff inf, doesnt mean helf need one. Those small touches are what as a whole asymmetrically balances the game and offer unique races, unlike most other total wars

    this vision has been long abandoned. For example, LZ as a faction have all tools. You could say they don’t have archers, and you’d be right but what is intended here is that they have tools to answer most army compositions/unit types. For example they can counter mass cav armies, they can counter strong SEM and they can counter elite infantry all relatively easily.

    Now HE are in the same boat for the most part just pointing out that I don’t agree with your statement of every faction being asymmetrically balanced.
    Ones struggles vs heavy cavs, the other vs mass powder range

    Also their roster is staying true to their tt.
    Highelves don't have a 450g sword unit. They always have to pay more than necessary. If you want to break through a dreadspear fronline quickly you have to use 600g for 450g spear units.
  • ThePhoenixKingThePhoenixKing Registered Users Posts: 31

    Green0 said:

    Not every race is gonna have all sorts of tools. De have a sword chaff inf, doesnt mean helf need one. Those small touches are what as a whole asymmetrically balances the game and offer unique races, unlike most other total wars

    this vision has been long abandoned. For example, LZ as a faction have all tools. You could say they don’t have archers, and you’d be right but what is intended here is that they have tools to answer most army compositions/unit types. For example they can counter mass cav armies, they can counter strong SEM and they can counter elite infantry all relatively easily.

    Now HE are in the same boat for the most part just pointing out that I don’t agree with your statement of every faction being asymmetrically balanced.
    Ones struggles vs heavy cavs, the other vs mass powder range

    Also their roster is staying true to their tt.
    Highelves don't have a 450g sword unit. They always have to pay more than necessary. If you want to break through a dreadspear fronline quickly you have to use 600g for 450g spear units.
    Darkelves pay 450g for 500g spear units
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 6,370

    Green0 said:

    Not every race is gonna have all sorts of tools. De have a sword chaff inf, doesnt mean helf need one. Those small touches are what as a whole asymmetrically balances the game and offer unique races, unlike most other total wars

    this vision has been long abandoned. For example, LZ as a faction have all tools. You could say they don’t have archers, and you’d be right but what is intended here is that they have tools to answer most army compositions/unit types. For example they can counter mass cav armies, they can counter strong SEM and they can counter elite infantry all relatively easily.

    Now HE are in the same boat for the most part just pointing out that I don’t agree with your statement of every faction being asymmetrically balanced.
    Ones struggles vs heavy cavs, the other vs mass powder range

    Also their roster is staying true to their tt.
    Highelves don't have a 450g sword unit. They always have to pay more than necessary. If you want to break through a dreadspear fronline quickly you have to use 600g for 450g spear units.
    Darkelves pay 450g for 500g spear units
    Dark Elven spears actually are even worse than HE ones, feel free to test vs a player you will see that but 450g ones and chevroned ones to ~500g lose to HE spears even if Murderous Prowess procs.
  • ThePhoenixKingThePhoenixKing Registered Users Posts: 31
    Spears are against cavalry. But they have not enouhh AP damage to do that. Eternal guard is good against cav.
  • NazjaxNazjax Registered Users Posts: 795

    Valkaar said:

    Eh, they hold the line great and SHOULDN’T be able to beat Bleakswords. The way this game is balanced, where swords > spears, Bleakswords are SUPPOSED to counter spear-based frontlines. It would be weird if they didn’t.

    That being said, Bleakswords will NOT chew through High Elf spears quickly, especially before Martial Prowess wears off. The High Elf spears hold the line for an impressively long period of time against all but the more elite stuff that’s significantly above their price point.

    Your specific suggestions of giving them almost 80!!! leadership, + AP would make them over-powered killers, and nearly unbreakable once combined with ‘immune to psych + LD buffs’.

    Furthermore..... if you REALLY want a spear-based frontline that can BEAT chaff-level anti-infantry infantry of other races, then you don’t need to alter Spearmen at all. The High Elves already have that in the form of Silverin Guard. Silverin Guard will 1 vs 1 EVERY Greenskin infantry unit except Black Orks. They might not cost-effectively beat all of them, like Skulkers, but they will beat them.

    So yeah, mix in a few Silverins into your spear line, and you’ll get the ability to clear out chaff.

    And where are Highelv sword units?!
    And no they wouldn't be OP and it's already tested because Eternal guard with Shields is not an OP unit, right?

    The sword>spears>cavalry>swords doesn't work because faction don't have the same units. Bleakswords cost 450G but beat 500G spears. And Highelves don't have a bleaksword unit for 500 to kill them.
    High elves are stronger than DE in most situations. You want to make druchii even more ridiculous ?

    HE have : Better dragons, better cavalry, better range, better infantry.

    You look like a fan of HE that just want to make this faction OP. Every faction have it's pro and con and make them exactly same like you said cause they DONT have the same units is better.
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 6,370
    Nazjax said:

    Valkaar said:

    Eh, they hold the line great and SHOULDN’T be able to beat Bleakswords. The way this game is balanced, where swords > spears, Bleakswords are SUPPOSED to counter spear-based frontlines. It would be weird if they didn’t.

    That being said, Bleakswords will NOT chew through High Elf spears quickly, especially before Martial Prowess wears off. The High Elf spears hold the line for an impressively long period of time against all but the more elite stuff that’s significantly above their price point.

    Your specific suggestions of giving them almost 80!!! leadership, + AP would make them over-powered killers, and nearly unbreakable once combined with ‘immune to psych + LD buffs’.

    Furthermore..... if you REALLY want a spear-based frontline that can BEAT chaff-level anti-infantry infantry of other races, then you don’t need to alter Spearmen at all. The High Elves already have that in the form of Silverin Guard. Silverin Guard will 1 vs 1 EVERY Greenskin infantry unit except Black Orks. They might not cost-effectively beat all of them, like Skulkers, but they will beat them.

    So yeah, mix in a few Silverins into your spear line, and you’ll get the ability to clear out chaff.

    And where are Highelv sword units?!
    And no they wouldn't be OP and it's already tested because Eternal guard with Shields is not an OP unit, right?

    The sword>spears>cavalry>swords doesn't work because faction don't have the same units. Bleakswords cost 450G but beat 500G spears. And Highelves don't have a bleaksword unit for 500 to kill them.
    High elves are stronger than DE in most situations. You want to make druchii even more ridiculous ?

    HE have : Better dragons, better cavalry, better range, better infantry.

    You look like a fan of HE that just want to make this faction OP. Every faction have it's pro and con and make them exactly same like you said cause they DONT have the same units is better.
    DE advantages: AP missile cav, better chariots, better signature spells, overall faster and more aggressive roster.
  • Elder_BasiliskElder_Basilisk Registered Users Posts: 382
    For reference, empire spearmen with shield ranked up to 504 gold-triple silver -have -4 Ld, -10 armor, -3 spd, +4 MA, +11 MD, +540 hp and -20% missile block.

    Bret spearmen at arms with shields ranked up to 494 gold (double gold chevron) have -12 LD, -10 armor, -3 spd +6 MA, +9 MD, +180 hp, and -1 AP/-2 non AP dmg.

    Martial prowess evens out the defensive stats until it disappears and mitigates a little bit of the offensive disadvantage. The armor advantage is probably offset by the hp disadvantage. However the ability to take unshielded and unchevroned versions is pretty significant too. Let's face it, it's almost never worthwhile for Brets or empire to chevron their spearmen up.
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 7,182
    edited June 29
    Nothing impressive about emp spears at all. Basic avg spears, u want good ones have a look at eternals, frikking 80ld lol

    Ppl dont seem to realise the unshielded is the best ap “2h” at that price with anti large
    https://imgur.com/a/Cj4b9
    Top #3 Leaderboard on Warhammer Totalwar.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 4,767
    Cheap hp is king for spears.

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