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Kislev's Lords - Who and how many?

TheWattman#7460TheWattman#7460 Junior MemberEarth´s core... doing things you will never know aboutRegistered Users Posts: 1,580
Kislev is all but guaranteed to come, either as one of the launch base-races of WH3, or in a race-pack or Pre-Order close to launch. Now, some of their coming lords are really easy to pin down, namely the Bokha father and daughter rulers, while some others, depending on how many they will ultimately recieve, are a bit harder to narrow down. So I thought we could bring our thoughts together and see what we think should make it in.

Now, as for the number of lords, we have a number of options based on previous race-patterns. There is the appalling option of only 2 lords in a Wood Elves-style pack, but since mini-campaigns are pretty much out of the question, this is pretty much not an option to even bring up. Then there is the classic WH2 race-pack of 4 lords, like for the Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast, which certainly would allow for more variety, both in lord types and starting positions for Kislev. And then there is the base-race option, of which WH2 has established a standard of 6 lords per race, which is now the guiding principle for all races, atleast unofficially.

So for Kislev, there are 2 very much given lords, the lords of which it is likely we will see if Kislev comes as a base race:

Tzarina Katarin - Likely placed as the ruler of Kislev City in a disunited Kislev realm, her campaign would focus on uniting the homelands to stem the tide of Chaos. Depending on the detail Kislev is represented, this can be challenging work indeed.
Boris Ursus - Katarin's father Boris would also be LL for Kislev, but not as a Tzar, but as the leader of the Cult of Ursun and most likely based in the Kislevite farside colonies, aka the Wheatlands, in the Dark Lands in order to keep the mountain passes open and the trade routes flowing. The Chaos Dwarf fortress of Uzkulak would be a big threat to this.

As for additional Lords, there is atleast 1 we can all pretty much agree on should come:

Ulrika Magdova - The love of Felix Jaeger and daughter of the Boyar of Straghov turned Vampire. However, she remembers her roots and fights under the banner of Kislev, not the Vampires who enslaved her. Starting in Fort Straghov on the northern border and, depending again on the detail of the Kislevite lands, isolated in a sea of Norscans, Skaven and Trolls, it is up to her to hold the line, plain and simple.

However, beyond this, atleast Im having a hard time finding appropriate lord material for lord spots 4, 5 and 6, potentially. I have narrowed down a few characters, like Tzar Saltan of Praag (another hold the line-situation), Ivan Radinov (brother of the Tzarina and commander of the Gryphon Legion, aka expedition) or even Kaspar von Velten (Empire Ambassador to Kislev, aka 2nd lord for Kislev City). But there just isn't one that really stands out to me, so what do you think guys? What would Kislev's lords be for WH3?
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Comments

  • Bonutz#3949Bonutz#3949 Registered Users Posts: 5,764
    Tzarina Katarin
    Boris Ursus
    Ulrika Magdova
    Ivan Radinov
    Baba Yaga
    I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I’m all out of bubblegum.
  • Captain_Rex#1635Captain_Rex#1635 Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 38,130
    edited June 2020
    Bonutz619 said:

    Tzarina Katarin
    Boris Ursus
    Ulrika Magdova
    Ivan Radinov
    Baba Yaga

    Yeah these are the most likely candidates.

    There also also Ilja Murova and Stepan Raisin but they are extremely minor. But still, there are enough characters for CA to get up to 6 LLs if they want to.
    Summon the Elector Counts!
  • Captain_Rex#1635Captain_Rex#1635 Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 38,130
    Some lore about Ilja of Murova from the Warhammer Wiki:

    If you ask any inhabitant of the Taiga who is the strongest man in the land, you will invariably get the same answer, Ilja of Murova.
    This grim and skilled hunter has won every contest of strength in Kislev during the last twenty years. Once, by the personal request of the Tzarina, he wrestled a great grizzly bear unarmed and emerged victorious.
    Ilja of Murova is a bear of a man, standing well over seven feet tall. His hair is already showing signs of greying, but he has lost nothing of his skill with the bow or axe. His arms and shoulders are as mighty as ever, and no one, even amongst the Sibyrians, dare to challenge him in a contest of power.
    There are even those who believe that Ilja has been blessed by the gods with the spirit of a Great Bear. Ilja hunts alone, for the prey that he searches is far too dangerous.
    He openly challenges the creatures of Chaos and the Beastman Warbands, bringing their hides to the feet of the Tzarina in the yearly Summer Fair.
    In wartime Ilja is always the first man to stand beside the ruler of Kislev, and his awesome strength is welcomed by all.[1a]
    Ilja is almost literally a bear of a man and therefore is able to take far more punishment than a normal man.
    Summon the Elector Counts!
  • Ares354#1090Ares354#1090 Registered Users Posts: 4,301
    ArneSo said:

    Bonutz619 said:

    Tzarina Katarin
    Boris Ursus
    Ulrika Magdova
    Ivan Radinov
    Baba Yaga

    Yeah these are the most likely candidates.

    There also also Ilja Murova and Stepan Raisin but they are extremely minor. But still, there are enough characters for CA to get up to 6 LLs if they want to.
    Baba Yaga is more Green Knight character then Lord for Kislev, but I am not CA. What they gonna do will stand, on what GW will agree. Kislev is not confimed just yet.

    All other fit fine, but people will hate Ulrika, as Vamp, just like Aranessa
  • Captain_Rex#1635Captain_Rex#1635 Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 38,130
    Ares354 said:

    ArneSo said:

    Bonutz619 said:

    Tzarina Katarin
    Boris Ursus
    Ulrika Magdova
    Ivan Radinov
    Baba Yaga

    Yeah these are the most likely candidates.

    There also also Ilja Murova and Stepan Raisin but they are extremely minor. But still, there are enough characters for CA to get up to 6 LLs if they want to.
    Baba Yaga is more Green Knight character then Lord for Kislev, but I am not CA. What they gonna do will stand, on what GW will agree. Kislev is not confimed just yet.

    All other fit fine, but people will hate Ulrika, as Vamp, just like Aranessa
    Ulrica is still a Kislevite Nobel and her dad was a Boyar. She was meant to be a boyarness too after her father died but she got turned before that. But still, her leading a faction is still somehow fine.

    Aranessa is a Mutant pirate from Sartosa and never had anything to do with Zombies or Vampires. People don’t like her because CA destroyed Sartosa with turning it into an undead graveyard instead of saving it for DoW.

    These are 2 completely different scenarios.

    Ulrica leading a Kislevite faction with a few limited VC units like Alarielle and Arkhan would be fine. Again I said very very limited. Maybe only give her Vampire heroes and that’s it. Maybe don’t make her a hybrid faction at all and make her the only undead thing in her faction. It depends on CA, but Hybrid factions are quite popular when implemented right.

    Aranessa doesn’t belong to the Vampire Coast, but Ulrica Magdova belongs to Kislev. She also is extremely popular and has her own book novel. Adding her makes sense, since she would offer something very unique to Kislev and that’s what subfactions should all be about.

    While we are talking about hybrid factions, the Red Duke if ever added, should also get a few Bretonnian units.
    Summon the Elector Counts!
  • DaruwindDaruwind Junior Member PragueRegistered Users Posts: 1,460
    Katarina + Boris, just face it, Kislev is regional minor power, it was never major political player. So while we can pin HE/DE/Empire characters....all around the globe, can you put Kislev characters anywhere outside Kislev? Probably not.

    For me Kislev is perfect 2 LL ala Norsca style pre-order faction. It is high on demand, would easily boost sales. (because what else options there are...imagine every possible pre-order race like Araby (unlikely), TEB/DoW (too large), one chaos army? ......Kislev sounds like the best wow option)

    His Royal Highness, Phoenix King Finubar!

    "It has been too long since I drew a blade in anger, Tyrion. You have been my sword, and Teclis has been my shield. But now it is time I fought my own battles!"
  • Captain_Rex#1635Captain_Rex#1635 Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 38,130
    Daruwind said:

    Katarina + Boris, just face it, Kislev is regional minor power, it was never major political player. So while we can pin HE/DE/Empire characters....all around the globe, can you put Kislev characters anywhere outside Kislev? Probably not.

    For me Kislev is perfect 2 LL ala Norsca style pre-order faction. It is high on demand, would easily boost sales. (because what else options there are...imagine every possible pre-order race like Araby (unlikely), TEB/DoW (too large), one chaos army? ......Kislev sounds like the best wow option)

    Yeah we all know the Superpower known as the Vampire Coast...

    Honestly, the time of 2 LL races should be over. Just look at Norsca, people want more LLs so CA should make 4 LLs the minimum for future races.

    Kislev is also still the strongest contender for the 4th core race so 4-6 LLs is possible.
    Summon the Elector Counts!
  • AxiosXiphos#9040AxiosXiphos#9040 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,717
    Kislev is oddly the deciding factor in many debates on this forum.

    If it's a preorder then it's 2 LL and probably a mono god centric game three.

    If it's a core race then 4-6 with a varied game three lineup.

    If it's a campaign pack then 4 with god knows what as a game three lineup.

    Either way I don't see Kislev as a preorder and then them not going mono chaos gods. You just won't have enough options without them being a core.
  • kamenhero25kamenhero25 Registered Users Posts: 17
    Don't forget Tordimir Lubovasyn, current commander of the Gryphon Legion and skilled mercenary general. Perfect for an alternate start position away from Kislev proper.
  • #71580#71580 Registered Users Posts: 140
    Baba Yaga would really be something to behold... Just imagine a Chicken-Legged hut as a mount option on the battlefield!!! Hahahahaha Oh, I love this game...
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 4,771
    The Warhammer Fantasy RPG is the source for most of our lore on Kislev. If CA is going to expand them into a full-on roster instead of that half-formed stuff from Warmaster, they are going to need to draw on the RPG. This neatly solves the problem of character choices, because the RPG is full of them.

    Now, CA seems to like making sure there's some variety between the LLs of a given race. They might have multiple casters or melee lords, but they are different enough from each other to provide variable playthroughs.

    Tzarina Katarin Radinov is a given, she's been referenced consistently as the leader of Kislev in both games. She's also a straight caster-lord without much focus on melee combat.

    It's notable that most core races start with both a caster lord and a melee lord. So if Katarin is the caster, we need a heavy melee lord. Tzar Boris Radinov is the obvious choice, but if Katarin is Tzarina, then Boris is either dead or abdicated. Some people around here have theorized he might be includedwith the explanation he abdicated to become just the head of the cult of Ursun, but this is pure fanfiction as Boris died while still Tzar. If we're resorting to fanfiction here, we can resort to it anywhere. The only real reason to include him is because he's the mst straightforward choice for a melee lord and is the only canon named character who rode a bear.

    If Boris isn't the melee lord, Ilja of Murova makes the most sense. He's a big burly guy who kills bears with his bare hands, seems to be favored by Ursun, and has acted as a champion of the Tzarina in the past. If we're willing to indugle in fanfiction, giving him a bear mount is an easy stretch, and would render Boris' role as a bear-riding melee lore effectively irrelevant.

    Okay, so that's a pure caster and a pure melee lord. How what? Well, we could have hybrid lords who are good at both, we can have ranged lords, monstrous lords, etc, etc. What are our options?

    A hag character of some kind seems likely. Everybody says Baba Yaga, partly because she could act as a hybrid lord with her monstrous Chicken Hut mount. But sshe's very on the nose, the most on the nose character outside of the Green Knight. The Kislev RPG is full of other hag characters. A number of them seem plausible. Baba Khubleya is only eight years old, but has been supernaturally aged and looks like she's 80 and has incredible skill at telling the future. Baba Osuleg lives in a hut made of human bones and is secretly a mutant. Baba Pogodya is a very old and powerful hag missing an eye and a hand, is noted for being ruthless, and despises the Cult of Ulric. Any of them could work, and you could easily give one of them Baba Yaga's chicken hut as a mount just because it would be cool.

    Now we're gonna need an FLC lord and FLC lords usually focus on units already present from release. A lord focused on the Gryphon Legion would fit this role, as the Gryphon Legion is composed of the standard cavalry of Kislev, equivalents to the Reiksguard. Either the Legion's independently-minded commander, Tordimir Lubovasyn or Katarin's younger brother know for leading Legion expeditions into foreign lands, Ivan Radinov, would fit perfectly. If the bear-riding melee lords are designed to tear up infantry, these guys could be lore dedicated duelists like Lokhir or Tyrion, mounted on horses.

    The two main ehtnic groups of Kislev are the Gospodars (nobles, knights, the leaders) and the Ungols (Hags, horse archers, skirmishers) and an Ungol horse-archer lord would stand out from any of the other options on this list. Only a few are mentioned in the RPG, but a famous Ungol chieftan named Stepan Rasin is brought up in passing as a great hero of Kislev, so why not him.

    So:
    • Lore of Ice pure caster lord
    • Bear-riding tanky anti-infantry lord
    • Lore of Hags hybrid melee/caster lord with a monstrous mount
    • Horse mounted melee duelist lord
    • Horse-mounted ranged lord
    Now, to me, those seem like perfectly solid choices. I guess you could also throw in Ulrika, but I have no interest in another vampire hybrid factions, we already have two with aranessa and arkhan. We don't need a third. Let Kislev be Kislev, don't dilute it with vampires. Also, seems pretty weird to make Felix an FLC character but then making his main squeeze a full on LL. Feels like grasping at straws, which is unnecessary when we have plenty of other good choices.
  • OdTengri#8235OdTengri#8235 Registered Users Posts: 10,231
    Ares354 said:

    ArneSo said:

    Bonutz619 said:

    Tzarina Katarin
    Boris Ursus
    Ulrika Magdova
    Ivan Radinov
    Baba Yaga

    Yeah these are the most likely candidates.

    There also also Ilja Murova and Stepan Raisin but they are extremely minor. But still, there are enough characters for CA to get up to 6 LLs if they want to.
    Baba Yaga is more Green Knight character then Lord for Kislev, but I am not CA. What they gonna do will stand, on what GW will agree. Kislev is not confimed just yet.

    All other fit fine, but people will hate Ulrika, as Vamp, just like Aranessa
    No Because Ulrika is acutually a Vamp... and a Nobel of Kislev... Aranessa was so much more **** up... had they just made her a Vamp people wouldn't have been half as bad as what they did.
  • TyphenirwolfTyphenirwolf Registered Users Posts: 47
    They obviously need to include a Legendary Lord that rides a Bear mount.

    It would also be neat if one of the Legendary Lords has a Hammer and Sickle for forum memes.

    One of the Legendary Lords should look like Vladmir Putin as well. Maybe the Bear rider.

    While it would be preferable for them to stick to actual Warhammer Fantasy lore to achieve this, if that's not in the lore, then they will have to fabricate it from whole cloth and put it in the game. I like Warhammer, but I don't know the deep lore very well yet. So I can live with CA being creative in unsurprising and cliched ways. I can't see why anyone would be offended by that, and I refuse to empathize with anyone who declares as such.
  • XxXScorpionXxX#2310XxXScorpionXxX#2310 Registered Users Posts: 6,145
    I'm going to make the prediction that Dogs of War will be one of the 4 races introduced in WH3 and Kislev will be a Pre-Order faction with 2 legendary lords. The Ice Queen and her Bear Dad.
    Request scorched body textures, and fire death effects. At least 30% of all damage in this game comes from fire sources. Request Fire for the Fire God DLC.
  • TheWattman#7460TheWattman#7460 Junior Member Earth´s core... doing things you will never know aboutRegistered Users Posts: 1,580
    Daruwind said:

    Katarina + Boris, just face it, Kislev is regional minor power, it was never major political player. So while we can pin HE/DE/Empire characters....all around the globe, can you put Kislev characters anywhere outside Kislev? Probably not.

    For me Kislev is perfect 2 LL ala Norsca style pre-order faction. It is high on demand, would easily boost sales. (because what else options there are...imagine every possible pre-order race like Araby (unlikely), TEB/DoW (too large), one chaos army? ......Kislev sounds like the best wow option)

    As for expeditions, I guess you could count the start in the Farside Colonies in the Dark Lands and also wherever the Gryphon Legion ends up being stationed (perhaps Sentinels or Pigbarter).

    It's notable that most core races start with both a caster lord and a melee lord. So if Katarin is the caster, we need a heavy melee lord. Tzar Boris Radinov is the obvious choice, but if Katarin is Tzarina, then Boris is either dead or abdicated. Some people around here have theorized he might be includedwith the explanation he abdicated to become just the head of the cult of Ursun, but this is pure fanfiction as Boris died while still Tzar. If we're resorting to fanfiction here, we can resort to it anywhere. The only real reason to include him is because he's the mst straightforward choice for a melee lord and is the only canon named character who rode a bear.

    If Boris isn't the melee lord, Ilja of Murova makes the most sense. He's a big burly guy who kills bears with his bare hands, seems to be favored by Ursun, and has acted as a champion of the Tzarina in the past. If we're willing to indugle in fanfiction, giving him a bear mount is an easy stretch, and would render Boris' role as a bear-riding melee lore effectively irrelevant.

    Now, to me, those seem like perfectly solid choices. I guess you could also throw in Ulrika, but I have no interest in another vampire hybrid factions, we already have two with aranessa and arkhan. We don't need a third. Let Kislev be Kislev, don't dilute it with vampires. Also, seems pretty weird to make Felix an FLC character but then making his main squeeze a full on LL. Feels like grasping at straws, which is unnecessary when we have plenty of other good choices.

    1. There is also the argument that Boris could leave Katarin in charge of Kislev while he goes on to save the Farside Colonies, or vice versa, if Katarin is sent to the Farsides and Boris remains in charge of Kislev.

    2. Seems more like hero material to me, but given the scarce options I'd definetly consider it valid.

    3. Ulrika's faction would not be like Aranessa. It would be a standard untainted Kislev faction and whether it has access to vampire units is really debatable. Maybe summoning Skeletons of dead Kislevites in defence, but nothing further than that. You could give her some sort of battle mechanic to show how she deals with her bloodlust. Also, Ulrika is of the ruling class of Straghov, not wandering adventurers like Felix and Gotrek.
  • Tennisgolfboll#5877Tennisgolfboll#5877 Registered Users Posts: 13,492
    Tzar Boris the red. Leader of the temple of Ursun (melee lord with prayers like warrior priests). Large hp pool and melee defense. Can ride his bear.

    Tzarina Katarina. Spellcaster lord.

    Ilja of Murova. Hybrid ranged and melee. High weapon strength.


    Stepan Rasin. Starts with his horse. Very fast horse archer lord. Buff lord for ungol troops.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • Captain_Rex#1635Captain_Rex#1635 Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 38,130
    To sum it up again:

    1. Boris Ursun: Melee LL & Tzar of Kislev
    2. Katarin: Classic Caster LL
    3. Ivan Radinov: Cavalry focused LL
    4. Ulrica: Character focused, popularity
    5. Baba Yaga: Hag and Ungol Focus
    6. Ilja of Murova: Hybrid LL
    7. Stepan Raisin: Horse Archer & Ungols

    7 very interesting and unique characters.

    It all depends on the Way Kislev is implemented.

    I don’t think a preorder bonus is realistic since Kislev (and DoW) have to much content for something so minor. The past showed us that releasing races with only 2 LLs is a mistake and CA should not repeat that mistake.

    So that leaves 2 options:

    - Core Race (6 LLs)
    - DLC Race (4LLs)
    Summon the Elector Counts!
  • Captain_Rex#1635Captain_Rex#1635 Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 38,130

    The Warhammer Fantasy RPG is the source for most of our lore on Kislev. If CA is going to expand them into a full-on roster instead of that half-formed stuff from Warmaster, they are going to need to draw on the RPG. This neatly solves the problem of character choices, because the RPG is full of them.

    Now, CA seems to like making sure there's some variety between the LLs of a given race. They might have multiple casters or melee lords, but they are different enough from each other to provide variable playthroughs.

    Tzarina Katarin Radinov is a given, she's been referenced consistently as the leader of Kislev in both games. She's also a straight caster-lord without much focus on melee combat.

    It's notable that most core races start with both a caster lord and a melee lord. So if Katarin is the caster, we need a heavy melee lord. Tzar Boris Radinov is the obvious choice, but if Katarin is Tzarina, then Boris is either dead or abdicated. Some people around here have theorized he might be includedwith the explanation he abdicated to become just the head of the cult of Ursun, but this is pure fanfiction as Boris died while still Tzar. If we're resorting to fanfiction here, we can resort to it anywhere. The only real reason to include him is because he's the mst straightforward choice for a melee lord and is the only canon named character who rode a bear.

    If Boris isn't the melee lord, Ilja of Murova makes the most sense. He's a big burly guy who kills bears with his bare hands, seems to be favored by Ursun, and has acted as a champion of the Tzarina in the past. If we're willing to indugle in fanfiction, giving him a bear mount is an easy stretch, and would render Boris' role as a bear-riding melee lore effectively irrelevant.

    Okay, so that's a pure caster and a pure melee lord. How what? Well, we could have hybrid lords who are good at both, we can have ranged lords, monstrous lords, etc, etc. What are our options?

    A hag character of some kind seems likely. Everybody says Baba Yaga, partly because she could act as a hybrid lord with her monstrous Chicken Hut mount. But sshe's very on the nose, the most on the nose character outside of the Green Knight. The Kislev RPG is full of other hag characters. A number of them seem plausible. Baba Khubleya is only eight years old, but has been supernaturally aged and looks like she's 80 and has incredible skill at telling the future. Baba Osuleg lives in a hut made of human bones and is secretly a mutant. Baba Pogodya is a very old and powerful hag missing an eye and a hand, is noted for being ruthless, and despises the Cult of Ulric. Any of them could work, and you could easily give one of them Baba Yaga's chicken hut as a mount just because it would be cool.

    Now we're gonna need an FLC lord and FLC lords usually focus on units already present from release. A lord focused on the Gryphon Legion would fit this role, as the Gryphon Legion is composed of the standard cavalry of Kislev, equivalents to the Reiksguard. Either the Legion's independently-minded commander, Tordimir Lubovasyn or Katarin's younger brother know for leading Legion expeditions into foreign lands, Ivan Radinov, would fit perfectly. If the bear-riding melee lords are designed to tear up infantry, these guys could be lore dedicated duelists like Lokhir or Tyrion, mounted on horses.

    The two main ehtnic groups of Kislev are the Gospodars (nobles, knights, the leaders) and the Ungols (Hags, horse archers, skirmishers) and an Ungol horse-archer lord would stand out from any of the other options on this list. Only a few are mentioned in the RPG, but a famous Ungol chieftan named Stepan Rasin is brought up in passing as a great hero of Kislev, so why not him.

    So:

    • Lore of Ice pure caster lord
    • Bear-riding tanky anti-infantry lord
    • Lore of Hags hybrid melee/caster lord with a monstrous mount
    • Horse mounted melee duelist lord
    • Horse-mounted ranged lord
    Now, to me, those seem like perfectly solid choices. I guess you could also throw in Ulrika, but I have no interest in another vampire hybrid factions, we already have two with aranessa and arkhan. We don't need a third. Let Kislev be Kislev, don't dilute it with vampires. Also, seems pretty weird to make Felix an FLC character but then making his main squeeze a full on LL. Feels like grasping at straws, which is unnecessary when we have plenty of other good choices.
    Ulrica is not like Aranessa. She is a kislevite character even if she is a Vamp. Her dad was a Boyar and so was she before she got turned. She could be a classic Kislev faction without undead units. It’s up to CA how to implement her.

    She also has her own novels and is extremely popular. Ulrica is a Must!
    Summon the Elector Counts!
  • Sultschiem#8734Sultschiem#8734 Registered Users Posts: 3,505
    edited June 2020
    Baba Yaga is a mythical character, who does not lead, only joins the army...
    She should be a legendary hero, maybe via a questline similar to Lord Kroak....

    As for the criticism about Ulrika.... she is a great character to add, that could, similar to Arkhan, use some units/heroes from vampire counts and would be a cool addition from both gameplay as well as lore.
    Post edited by Sultschiem#8734 on
  • Captain_Rex#1635Captain_Rex#1635 Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 38,130

    Baba Yaga is a mythical character, who does not lead, only joins the army...
    She should be a legendary hero, maybe via a questline similar to Lord Kroak....

    As for the criticism about Ulrika.... she is a great character to add, that could, similar to Arkhan, use some units/heroes from vampire counts and would be a cool addition from both gameplay as well as lore.

    I agree, I‘m also not a big Fan of Baba Yaga.
    Summon the Elector Counts!
  • DaruwindDaruwind Junior Member PragueRegistered Users Posts: 1,460
    ArneSo said:


    So that leaves 2 options:

    - Core Race (6 LLs)
    - DLC Race (4LLs)

    Or just 2-3 LLs in case of Norsca size pre-order

    To sum it up perfectly:
    VC - 18,99 EU - 4 LLs no mini campaign
    TK - 18,99 EU - 4 LLs no mini campaign
    WE - 18,99 EU - 2LLs + mini campaign
    BM - 18,99 EU - 2LLs + mini campaign (got one FLC LL with WE)

    now
    WoC - 7,99 EU - 3 LLs no mini campaign (except no difference between them faction wise)
    Norsca - 9,99 EU - 2 LLs no mini campaign

    ==>>
    Kislev will be probably 9,99 EU - 2 LLs size with difference between Katarina and Boris

    4 or 6 LLs would require either full DLC race or core race. Pre-order cannot be such size.




    His Royal Highness, Phoenix King Finubar!

    "It has been too long since I drew a blade in anger, Tyrion. You have been my sword, and Teclis has been my shield. But now it is time I fought my own battles!"
  • Captain_Rex#1635Captain_Rex#1635 Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 38,130
    edited June 2020
    Daruwind said:

    ArneSo said:


    So that leaves 2 options:

    - Core Race (6 LLs)
    - DLC Race (4LLs)

    Or just 2-3 LLs in case of Norsca size pre-order

    To sum it up perfectly:
    VC - 18,99 EU - 4 LLs no mini campaign
    TK - 18,99 EU - 4 LLs no mini campaign
    WE - 18,99 EU - 2LLs + mini campaign
    BM - 18,99 EU - 2LLs + mini campaign (got one FLC LL with WE)

    now
    WoC - 7,99 EU - 3 LLs no mini campaign (except no difference between them faction wise)
    Norsca - 9,99 EU - 2 LLs no mini campaign

    ==>>
    Kislev will be probably 9,99 EU - 2 LLs size with difference between Katarina and Boris

    4 or 6 LLs would require either full DLC race or core race. Pre-order cannot be such size.



    We should never get races with only 2 LLs again. Just look at Norsca and how people are asking for more LLs.

    New races are extremely rare so 4 LLs should be the minimum now.

    Just look at the Coast, instead of releasing it with Nocti and Harkon, CA also added Aranessa and made up Cylostra to get up to 4.

    4 LLs is the new standard, 2 LL race packs are dead.

    That’s the exact reason why Kislev and DoW should not be the preorder bonus, because they would only end up with 2 LLs. That would be a huge waste of potential.

    4 LLs Minimum or riot!
    Summon the Elector Counts!
  • TheWattman#7460TheWattman#7460 Junior Member Earth´s core... doing things you will never know aboutRegistered Users Posts: 1,580
    edited June 2020
    Indeed, Norsca should recieve 2 more lords, as should the Wood Elves. Beastmen should land at 5 or 6. (Egil Styrbjorn, Sayl the Faithless, Drycha, Ariel, Taurox, Ghorros)

    Kislev IMO could fit both as a core race or race pack for WH3, since I think the magic number for WH3 (non-Chaos) will be 4. 4 lords for Kislev, 4 for Ogres and 4 for Chaos Dwarfs. Ogres can't muster really anything beyond 4 (Greasus, Skrag, Golgfag and Ghark Ironskin(maybe 5 with Groth Onefinger)) and the Chaos Dwarfs can definetly settle for 4, even though they definetly can do 6 if they need to.

    Going above 4 lords for Kislev I think is just stretching it too far, since they don't really have material for more than say core and 1 DLC or a race pack on par with Tomb Kings or Vampire Coast. Then of course there is the problem of starting positions and again I think 4 are only appropriate. 2 positions in Kislev itself (Katarin and Ulrika), 1 in the Farside Colonies (Boris) and one other expedition. Leaning towards the Gryphon Legion for that one. Radinov or Lubovasyn, it doesn't really matter.
  • Ares354#1090Ares354#1090 Registered Users Posts: 4,301
    ArneSo said:

    Ares354 said:

    ArneSo said:

    Bonutz619 said:

    Tzarina Katarin
    Boris Ursus
    Ulrika Magdova
    Ivan Radinov
    Baba Yaga

    Yeah these are the most likely candidates.

    There also also Ilja Murova and Stepan Raisin but they are extremely minor. But still, there are enough characters for CA to get up to 6 LLs if they want to.
    Baba Yaga is more Green Knight character then Lord for Kislev, but I am not CA. What they gonna do will stand, on what GW will agree. Kislev is not confimed just yet.

    All other fit fine, but people will hate Ulrika, as Vamp, just like Aranessa
    Ulrica is still a Kislevite Nobel and her dad was a Boyar. She was meant to be a boyarness too after her father died but she got turned before that. But still, her leading a faction is still somehow fine.

    Aranessa is a Mutant pirate from Sartosa and never had anything to do with Zombies or Vampires. People don’t like her because CA destroyed Sartosa with turning it into an undead graveyard instead of saving it for DoW.

    These are 2 completely different scenarios.

    Ulrica leading a Kislevite faction with a few limited VC units like Alarielle and Arkhan would be fine. Again I said very very limited. Maybe only give her Vampire heroes and that’s it. Maybe don’t make her a hybrid faction at all and make her the only undead thing in her faction. It depends on CA, but Hybrid factions are quite popular when implemented right.

    Aranessa doesn’t belong to the Vampire Coast, but Ulrica Magdova belongs to Kislev. She also is extremely popular and has her own book novel. Adding her makes sense, since she would offer something very unique to Kislev and that’s what subfactions should all be about.

    While we are talking about hybrid factions, the Red Duke if ever added, should also get a few Bretonnian units.
    Even is CA or GW will allow Ulrica do lead Kislevite faction, its out of question to give her any undead units like Zombie or anything VC related.

    Kislev still remembers Kattarin which was Lahmian vamp, who ruled Kislev before Boris and his father as well. She was killed by Kislev Vamp hunter, and her body is still frozen in Palace, as example to others.

    So I douth very much, Kislev would fallow Vamp lady who rise dead and come with Vamp in their land. She may come, use Vamp power, but rising dead is out of questions imho. So is turning other in Vamps
  • Ares354#1090Ares354#1090 Registered Users Posts: 4,301
    OdTengri said:

    Ares354 said:

    ArneSo said:

    Bonutz619 said:

    Tzarina Katarin
    Boris Ursus
    Ulrika Magdova
    Ivan Radinov
    Baba Yaga

    Yeah these are the most likely candidates.

    There also also Ilja Murova and Stepan Raisin but they are extremely minor. But still, there are enough characters for CA to get up to 6 LLs if they want to.
    Baba Yaga is more Green Knight character then Lord for Kislev, but I am not CA. What they gonna do will stand, on what GW will agree. Kislev is not confimed just yet.

    All other fit fine, but people will hate Ulrika, as Vamp, just like Aranessa
    No Because Ulrika is acutually a Vamp... and a Nobel of Kislev... Aranessa was so much more **** up... had they just made her a Vamp people wouldn't have been half as bad as what they did.
    I know she is Nobel woman, but people in Kislev will never fallow person who will rise dead and turn people in Vamp. They had their bloody Tzar, which body is still Frozen in Palace as example.
  • Ares354#1090Ares354#1090 Registered Users Posts: 4,301

    I'm going to make the prediction that Dogs of War will be one of the 4 races introduced in WH3 and Kislev will be a Pre-Order faction with 2 legendary lords. The Ice Queen and her Bear Dad.

    That will **** off a lot of people. Its waste, and I dont think CA is dumb enoug to do it
  • Captain_Rex#1635Captain_Rex#1635 Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 38,130
    Ares354 said:

    OdTengri said:

    Ares354 said:

    ArneSo said:

    Bonutz619 said:

    Tzarina Katarin
    Boris Ursus
    Ulrika Magdova
    Ivan Radinov
    Baba Yaga

    Yeah these are the most likely candidates.

    There also also Ilja Murova and Stepan Raisin but they are extremely minor. But still, there are enough characters for CA to get up to 6 LLs if they want to.
    Baba Yaga is more Green Knight character then Lord for Kislev, but I am not CA. What they gonna do will stand, on what GW will agree. Kislev is not confimed just yet.

    All other fit fine, but people will hate Ulrika, as Vamp, just like Aranessa
    No Because Ulrika is acutually a Vamp... and a Nobel of Kislev... Aranessa was so much more **** up... had they just made her a Vamp people wouldn't have been half as bad as what they did.
    I know she is Nobel woman, but people in Kislev will never fallow person who will rise dead and turn people in Vamp. They had their bloody Tzar, which body is still Frozen in Palace as example.
    Masquerade

    Summon the Elector Counts!
  • SerPus#7395SerPus#7395 Registered Users Posts: 9,886

    Ogres can't muster really anything beyond 4 (Greasus, Skrag, Golgfag and Ghark Ironskin(maybe 5 with Groth Onefinger))

    Bragg
  • Ares354#1090Ares354#1090 Registered Users Posts: 4,301
    ArneSo said:

    Ares354 said:

    OdTengri said:

    Ares354 said:

    ArneSo said:

    Bonutz619 said:

    Tzarina Katarin
    Boris Ursus
    Ulrika Magdova
    Ivan Radinov
    Baba Yaga

    Yeah these are the most likely candidates.

    There also also Ilja Murova and Stepan Raisin but they are extremely minor. But still, there are enough characters for CA to get up to 6 LLs if they want to.
    Baba Yaga is more Green Knight character then Lord for Kislev, but I am not CA. What they gonna do will stand, on what GW will agree. Kislev is not confimed just yet.

    All other fit fine, but people will hate Ulrika, as Vamp, just like Aranessa
    No Because Ulrika is acutually a Vamp... and a Nobel of Kislev... Aranessa was so much more **** up... had they just made her a Vamp people wouldn't have been half as bad as what they did.
    I know she is Nobel woman, but people in Kislev will never fallow person who will rise dead and turn people in Vamp. They had their bloody Tzar, which body is still Frozen in Palace as example.
    Masquerade

    What of it, she may show or hide she is Vamp, not a problem.

    But if she will start rising dead while leading Kislev people to war, she will be killed. Kislev people will not allow another Vamp Lady who turn her own people into Vamp, that is all I am saying. She may come, just dont give her ability to rise dead.
  • Captain_Rex#1635Captain_Rex#1635 Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 38,130
    Ares354 said:

    ArneSo said:

    Ares354 said:

    OdTengri said:

    Ares354 said:

    ArneSo said:

    Bonutz619 said:

    Tzarina Katarin
    Boris Ursus
    Ulrika Magdova
    Ivan Radinov
    Baba Yaga

    Yeah these are the most likely candidates.

    There also also Ilja Murova and Stepan Raisin but they are extremely minor. But still, there are enough characters for CA to get up to 6 LLs if they want to.
    Baba Yaga is more Green Knight character then Lord for Kislev, but I am not CA. What they gonna do will stand, on what GW will agree. Kislev is not confimed just yet.

    All other fit fine, but people will hate Ulrika, as Vamp, just like Aranessa
    No Because Ulrika is acutually a Vamp... and a Nobel of Kislev... Aranessa was so much more **** up... had they just made her a Vamp people wouldn't have been half as bad as what they did.
    I know she is Nobel woman, but people in Kislev will never fallow person who will rise dead and turn people in Vamp. They had their bloody Tzar, which body is still Frozen in Palace as example.
    Masquerade

    What of it, she may show or hide she is Vamp, not a problem.

    But if she will start rising dead while leading Kislev people to war, she will be killed. Kislev people will not allow another Vamp Lady who turn her own people into Vamp, that is all I am saying. She may come, just dont give her ability to rise dead.
    No she shouldn’t be able to Raise the dead. She should be a proper Kislev faction with her being the only undead in her faction.
    Summon the Elector Counts!
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