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Buffing the Foot Squires

another505another505 Registered Users Posts: 1,847
edited June 21 in Balancing Discussions
It has been discussed a bit before, but I want to open a specific thread about. It has been in my mind for a while too.

Foot squires are cost effective in fighting armored infantry which is nice. But I find their powerlevel is still too low as your best infantry. It would be more cost effective in dealing with higher tier infantry if Foot squire's price was moved to 750 and its power level accordingly instead of getting 675 gold foot squire getting chevroned or other units to support it at the same cost This would help them a lot as Bretonnia's weakness is dealing armored anti large infantry with SEM.

The grave guard buffs set a precedent for this kind of change.

Being 750 is still the weakest elite tier infantry in the game, firmly still bretonnian's theme. Even TK/SKV have better infantry

At this price, I would like it be focused on higher MA/MD. Foot squires are terrible at fighting anything besides infantry because of low MA without Bonus vs Infantry. Buffing their MA could make them slightly more generalist while still helping its job at chopping armored infantry.
MD just so it could do their job longer.

The Foot Squire ROR, beastslayer of bastonne would naturally be more expensive. From seeing 750 units having 9 chevron costing 1055(mirror guard costing 950 instead) Let's say the new beastslayer would cost 950/1000 .

Having the name beast slayer, it would be fitting for them to get immune to psychology in dealing with beast and a little stats boost in other categories since I don't think ITP alone cost 100/150 (850 increase to 950/1000)
Having Immune to Psychology would be a good interesting anchor unit for bretonnia. Currently, their pick rate is quite low, partially Questing Knights being basically essential for bretonnia right now.


Edit: This change also helps bretonnia not to be countered so easily because of their current heavy reliance of cavalry. This could spread out their strength into different categories

Comments

  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 7,182
    edited June 21
    +$25
    +4 def

    Probably suffice imo. All they need is really just be able to trade. Rather wait for them to make new units, if ever. Instead of losing squire for a new squire

    Dont know about beastslayer, they r just a crap unit imo, i never ever bring these guys, its like paying the same price for a inferior tombguard.

    Seems like a total garbage unit, 475 eternals have +2 more ap than these $850 guys. Why the elf would any1 buy a $850 unit with a antilarge capability equilvalent of a $475. Dumping $375 for what in return. Heck rather save that $ for cavs
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  • kasunrathnatungakasunrathnatunga Registered Users Posts: 4,031
    edited June 21
    Fully agreed with op

    @yst they have enough units make lp
    And few good characters left. And to top it off all of their possible units have 90% of assets in game currently.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 6,370
    yst said:

    +$25
    +4 def

    Probably suffice imo. All they need is really just be able to trade. Rather wait for them to make new units, if ever. Instead of losing squire for a new squire

    Dont know about beastslayer, they r just a crap unit imo, i never ever bring these guys, its like paying the same price for a inferior tombguard.

    Seems like a total garbage unit, 475 eternals have +2 more ap than these $850 guys. Why the elf would any1 buy a $850 unit with a antilarge capability equilvalent of a $475. Dumping $375 for what in return. Heck rather save that $ for cavs

    so roughly 75-100g worth of stats buff for 25g? I guess you can call that a #elfed :)

    FS are 25g too weak, decrease cost by 25g and from there rebalance for a 750g unit.
  • another505another505 Registered Users Posts: 1,847
    edited June 21
    Wow
    yay, Beastslayers compare to Tomb Guard halberd makes the former look terrible, and even worse for being ROR.
    Same cost:

    + 1170 more HP!!
    + undead unbreakable, realms of souls
    + silver shield
    + fear
    + 4 WS (2 more AP)

    - 30 armor
    - 4MA
    - 2BvsL
    - 1CB lol

    Though, I always think tomb guards in general overtuned. But the difference is massive.
  • kasunrathnatungakasunrathnatunga Registered Users Posts: 4,031

    Wow
    yay, Beastslayers compare to Tomb Guard halberd makes the former look terrible, and even worse for being ROR.
    Same cost:

    + 1170 more HP!!
    + undead unbreakable, realms of souls
    + silver shield
    + fear
    + 4 WS (2 more AP)

    - 30 armor
    - 4MA
    - 2BvsL
    - 1CB lol

    Though, I always think tomb guards in general overtuned. But the difference is massive.

    I don't think tomb guards are better. Weren't FS nerfed in wh 1 days for being strong.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Registered Users Posts: 8,905
    +$25
    +4 def

    Probably suffice imo. All they need is really just be able to trade. Rather wait for them to make new units, if ever. Instead of losing squire for a new squire


    I think this is actually a good suggestion or just +2MD for free, either one
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 6,370
    yeah my bad actually my brain processed +4 MD as +8 MD suggestion, +4 MD is worth about 50g and they are 25g too expensive so +4 MD and +25g would make them a good unit.
  • Godefroy_de_BouillonGodefroy_de_Bouillon Registered Users Posts: 2,474
    They need +10 armour and +5 md. Increase the price accordingly. They are too vulnerable to non AP dmg to beat decent pick imo.
  • another505another505 Registered Users Posts: 1,847
    I definitely rather push them up to a higher ‘tier’
    Bretonni is already riddled with low tier units
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 7,182
    edited June 21
    Beastslayers just frikking trash unit

    They gotta learn from bestigors ror. Go check that out and ull know
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  • Loupi_Loupi_ Registered Users Posts: 1,722
    yst said:

    +$25
    +4 def

    Probably suffice imo. All they need is really just be able to trade. Rather wait for them to make new units, if ever. Instead of losing squire for a new squire

    Dont know about beastslayer, they r just a crap unit imo, i never ever bring these guys, its like paying the same price for a inferior tombguard.

    Seems like a total garbage unit, 475 eternals have +2 more ap than these $850 guys. Why the elf would any1 buy a $850 unit with a antilarge capability equilvalent of a $475. Dumping $375 for what in return. Heck rather save that $ for cavs

    #elfed
  • RubzyRubzy Registered Users Posts: 179
    Squires are basically aspiring knights in training. The padawan to the Jedi. It doesn't make sense that they are this terrible.
  • kasunrathnatungakasunrathnatunga Registered Users Posts: 4,031
    Rubzy said:

    Squires are basically aspiring knights in training. The padawan to the Jedi. It doesn't make sense that they are this terrible.

    not in warhammer they are peasents.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia
  • another505another505 Registered Users Posts: 1,847

    Rubzy said:

    Squires are basically aspiring knights in training. The padawan to the Jedi. It doesn't make sense that they are this terrible.

    not in warhammer they are peasents.
    The best peasants lol
  • Loupi_Loupi_ Registered Users Posts: 1,722
    most of them are bastard sons of nobles who hope one day they will get "raised" to nobility. So they a mix of peasant and noble blood
  • Cuchulainn88Cuchulainn88 Registered Users Posts: 7
    I think foot squires are just a flat mistake the way they are armed. The beastslayers ror should be the template as far as equipment goes.
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 7,182
    Beastslayers r a mistake, a complete mistake of a unit.

    They r in no way anywhere a squire, its literally a poleman at arms ror, not squire ror. Horrible unit, missing at least 4-6 ap. One hella garbage of an ror
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  • PussyslayerXDDPussyslayerXDD Registered Users Posts: 40
    Beside squires, is there any way to improve bretonnia infantry game?
    Any change to current units, new passives or anything to make bretonnia not skaven lite?
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 7,182
    Nah not much really bit of buff here and there. The inf r close $25-50 value at most.

    Stupid reliq tho, that thing is incredibly overpriced. Just buying that thing alone ure always throwing away 2 regiments of men at arms. Its a frikking joke, carts only $250, this thing with a pathetic aura is trying to charge ppl for $500 lol....

    Its nothing but a walking aura, absolute garbage when u look at units like asp champions that r so strong that they can beat spearman and hurt regular swords quite badly. Reliq get rekt by $100 zombies
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  • another505another505 Registered Users Posts: 1,847

    Rubzy said:

    Squires are basically aspiring knights in training. The padawan to the Jedi. It doesn't make sense that they are this terrible.

    not in warhammer they are peasents.
    The best peasants lol

    Beside squires, is there any way to improve bretonnia infantry game?
    Any change to current units, new passives or anything to make bretonnia not skaven lite?

    I asked battle pilgrim to get 3 speeds to 33 like other peasants to rush in faster against vp and tk which are hard mu. Didnt happen
    But somehow top tier faction tk thread asking nehek warrior buff got their buff

    It does feel sad


    Grail relique could give a one time shoet map wide buff after 120 seconds melee recharge(inspired from grimhammer)
    Was thinking like a 20 second shield of saphery ability

    Blessing of the lady should be a faction wide ability giving resistance to magic and missile like waagh or realm of souls.
    Thats how it worked in TT and lore. Grail knight phys resist rename to something else.


    They could get truffle hounds with small bvsInf, frenzy and rampage. Would be a nice vanguard unit
    New archers

    Theres plenty of ways to make bretonnia more unique if CA is willing
  • Godefroy_de_BouillonGodefroy_de_Bouillon Registered Users Posts: 2,474
    Man blessing of the lady as battle mechanic feels great. Just like a defensive waaagh. You have my sword,
  • kasunrathnatungakasunrathnatunga Registered Users Posts: 4,031

    Rubzy said:

    Squires are basically aspiring knights in training. The padawan to the Jedi. It doesn't make sense that they are this terrible.

    not in warhammer they are peasents.
    The best peasants lol

    Beside squires, is there any way to improve bretonnia infantry game?
    Any change to current units, new passives or anything to make bretonnia not skaven lite?

    I asked battle pilgrim to get 3 speeds to 33 like other peasants to rush in faster against vp and tk which are hard mu. Didnt happen
    But somehow top tier faction tk thread asking nehek warrior buff got their buff

    It does feel sad


    Grail relique could give a one time shoet map wide buff after 120 seconds melee recharge(inspired from grimhammer)
    Was thinking like a 20 second shield of saphery ability

    Blessing of the lady should be a faction wide ability giving resistance to magic and missile like waagh or realm of souls.
    Thats how it worked in TT and lore. Grail knight phys resist rename to something else.


    They could get truffle hounds with small bvsInf, frenzy and rampage. Would be a nice vanguard unit
    New archers

    Theres plenty of ways to make bretonnia more unique if CA is willing
    This is off topic, but how would you sir use truffle hounds if they got implemented?

    I am trying to gather more info before making another bretonnia post since most of the general chat seems to be against any uh nits for bretonnia.

    Thank you in advance.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia
  • another505another505 Registered Users Posts: 1,847
    edited June 22
    They would be good backline harrass especially they have frenzy, rampage, anti inf(lore wise like to bit man’s junk off after going crazy sniffing some truffle), vanguard hide , and small size

    Most opponents bring a lot of anti large which makes mounted yeoman even worse.
    Could be a cheap suicide unit like harpies bats or other dogs to tie down artillery, inf or range units . Bretonnia doesnt have that ability beside suiciding relatively expensice knight errant that is much easier to block
    They could also serve as mobile blockers for your cav. Tie down spearmen so your cavs can move in better

    The smal size, speed and anti inf will be the big factors on why it will be used


    Ppl are against bret getting new units because they keep repeating the mantra bret got all its 6ed units . Its lore and design has plenty of space, and named units. And not getting 8ed and saying 6ed is enough is unfair.
  • Godefroy_de_BouillonGodefroy_de_Bouillon Registered Users Posts: 2,474
    there are already plenty of non TT units for other factions so no issue there. Herrimaults, lost sons of bretonnia must happen.
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