Empire Campaign simply must be retooled

epic_159736119942eBLSIJy

Since the most recent update, the Empire gets torn to pieces by orcs in the east and to a larger extent VC coming from the south. In many campaigns this kind of devouring of player race factions simply means you have more battles to fight to conquer territory than you did a moment ago. In the Empire campaign you live and die by the Imperial Authority system which penalized you every time an elector count gets their back-end handed to them. Earning prestige is also clunky and unearnable through direct action. I just quit the 3rd campaign since the recent update on turn 25 playing as Gelt on hard because I was -9 IA. I took a look at the map and VC had taken all of: Talabheim, Stirland, Kislev, Averland, and Ostland. Orcs and Skaven had split Ostermark amongst themselves. It is unplayable if you value any kind of enjoyment in your campaigns.

This is compounded by the Empire's inability to field diverse armies in the early game. If you play as Gelt you essentially spam spearmen and grind down black knights. Franz is less pressed but it still doesn't solve the diversity or IA issues. The campaign can be hard, but it should also be enjoyable instead of a grind and it definitely shouldn't grind you down via external factors.

-VC need to have their aggression tuned down, not as far as preupdate but closer to preupdate than what it is now.
-CA should lower the requirements for standard imperial knights.
-The first building in the foundry chain should have its price lowered.
-Captain should be in the level 2 barracks, not level 3
-the IA system should have more parity with the HE political system than it currently does

yst#1879

Thats kinda like empire players dream. Nothing feels more loreful and fun seeing the empire gets ripped at apart, torn to shreds, then u rebuild it town by town

My god why in the world would u wanna change that

Knights -1 level i can agreesince they r the most basic they got

Captains and stuffs its cleat t3. All factions in game have heroes at t3 is simply a standard

Empire are always suppose to lose a huge chunk of their territory as they have been all along. Meatshield of the world

saweendra#3399

yst said:

Thats kinda like empire players dream. Nothing feels more loreful and fun seeing the empire gets ripped at apart, torn to shreds, then u rebuild it town by town

My god why in the world would u wanna change that

Knights -1 level i can agreesince they r the most basic they got

Captains and stuffs its cleat t3. All factions in game have heroes at t3 is simply a standard

Empire are always suppose to lose a huge chunk of their territory as they have been all along. Meatshield of the world

you should visit general fourms more there are many people who are alergic to hard game play , or nerfing any op sp stuff. or actually proper balance of sp.
but there is insane support for any op addition without shred of consideration for balance

innerp

yst said:

Captains and stuffs its cleat t3. All factions in game have heroes at t3 is simply a standard

wight is tier 2 and superior in combat

epic_159736119942eBLSIJy

kasunrathnatunga said:

yst said:

Thats kinda like empire players dream. Nothing feels more loreful and fun seeing the empire gets ripped at apart, torn to shreds, then u rebuild it town by town

My god why in the world would u wanna change that

Knights -1 level i can agreesince they r the most basic they got

Captains and stuffs its cleat t3. All factions in game have heroes at t3 is simply a standard

Empire are always suppose to lose a huge chunk of their territory as they have been all along. Meatshield of the world

you should visit general fourms more there are many people who are alergic to hard game play , or nerfing any op sp stuff. or actually proper balance of sp.
but there is insane support for any op addition without shred of consideration for balance

Idk why I even try to have conversations here. Everytime I have made this observation, no matter how carefully I word it I am accused of being "allergic to difficulty" which is a strawman of my points. I'm not complaining about difficulty I'm complaining about mechanics needlessly grinding the experience into the ground.

yst said:

Thats kinda like empire players dream. Nothing feels more loreful and fun seeing the empire gets ripped at apart, torn to shreds, then u rebuild it town by town

My god why in the world would u wanna change that

Knights -1 level i can agreesince they r the most basic they got

Captains and stuffs its cleat t3. All factions in game have heroes at t3 is simply a standard

Empire are always suppose to lose a huge chunk of their territory as they have been all along. Meatshield of the world

Several Heroes are available at tier 2 and they are usually Captain parallels. HE Noble, DE Master, VC Wight for example.
Your comment about reconquering territory lost for the Empire was already covered in my original post. I would love to do that. It would feel epic, however on turn 25 having 4 provinces overrun means IA drops to -8 which has significant impacts on your growth/ public order/ and income. Get to -10 and any remaining electors declare war on you. The IA system was designed from a civil war standpoint however the updates don't leave the Empire in a state of Civil War but rather a struggle against an undead tide that will not cease (which is fine). Either the IA system needs reworked or VC need to be made more passive. Otherwise its a mess and one of the least enjoyable campaigns in the game.

yst#1879

kasunrathnatunga said:

you should visit general fourms more there are many people who are alergic to hard game play , or nerfing any op sp stuff. or actually proper balance of sp.
but there is insane support for any op addition without shred of consideration for balance

I mean if they r trash players theres always easy mode. Nerfing the ai simply ruins the game for ppl who plays legendary and r literally forced to win the game in like less than 30 turns.

Not buying this difficulty garbage at all, seriously if hard is, u know hard to handle. Play easy, why ruin the fun for ppl that actually play hard for u know, hard

innerp said:

yst said:

Captains and stuffs its cleat t3. All factions in game have heroes at t3 is simply a standard

wight is tier 2 and superior in combat

Yep ure right about that one. There r varying levels on heroes, I suppose avg would be 3. SKink chief r 2 while scar vet r 4.

Its not unreasonable for cap to be at 3 at all, witch hunt, mages, all emp characters r 3.

Wight may be 2, but vamp heroes and banshee r all lv 4. They r afterall a super hero army, ure really not going far spamming skeletons. Like come on really at just t2 emp can already hire 8 units, like serious wth u want it to be made even easier. Like 8 go find a faction that does that much so early on.

Orks doing 8 is spread by frikking 5 buildings. 5.

yst#1879

I play gelt, and its not very hard and below

Godefroy_de_Bouillon

Cuchulainn88 said:

Since the most recent update, the Empire gets torn to pieces by orcs in the east and to a larger extent VC coming from the south. In many campaigns this kind of devouring of player race factions simply means you have more battles to fight to conquer territory than you did a moment ago. In the Empire campaign you live and die by the Imperial Authority system which penalized you every time an elector count gets their back-end handed to them. Earning prestige is also clunky and unearnable through direct action. I just quit the 3rd campaign since the recent update on turn 25 playing as Gelt on hard because I was -9 IA. I took a look at the map and VC had taken all of: Talabheim, Stirland, Kislev, Averland, and Ostland. Orcs and Skaven had split Ostermark amongst themselves. It is unplayable if you value any kind of enjoyment in your campaigns.

This is compounded by the Empire's inability to field diverse armies in the early game. If you play as Gelt you essentially spam spearmen and grind down black knights. Franz is less pressed but it still doesn't solve the diversity or IA issues. The campaign can be hard, but it should also be enjoyable instead of a grind and it definitely shouldn't grind you down via external factors.

-VC need to have their aggression tuned down, not as far as preupdate but closer to preupdate than what it is now.
-CA should lower the requirements for standard imperial knights.
-The first building in the foundry chain should have its price lowered.
-Captain should be in the level 2 barracks, not level 3
-the IA system should have more parity with the HE political system than it currently does

why/ VC should be a threat

saweendra#3399

Cuchulainn88 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

yst said:

Thats kinda like empire players dream. Nothing feels more loreful and fun seeing the empire gets ripped at apart, torn to shreds, then u rebuild it town by town

My god why in the world would u wanna change that

Knights -1 level i can agreesince they r the most basic they got

Captains and stuffs its cleat t3. All factions in game have heroes at t3 is simply a standard

Empire are always suppose to lose a huge chunk of their territory as they have been all along. Meatshield of the world

you should visit general fourms more there are many people who are alergic to hard game play , or nerfing any op sp stuff. or actually proper balance of sp.
but there is insane support for any op addition without shred of consideration for balance

Idk why I even try to have conversations here. Everytime I have made this observation, no matter how carefully I word it I am accused of being "allergic to difficulty" which is a strawman of my points. I'm not complaining about difficulty I'm complaining about mechanics needlessly grinding the experience into the ground.

yst said:

Thats kinda like empire players dream. Nothing feels more loreful and fun seeing the empire gets ripped at apart, torn to shreds, then u rebuild it town by town

My god why in the world would u wanna change that

Knights -1 level i can agreesince they r the most basic they got

Captains and stuffs its cleat t3. All factions in game have heroes at t3 is simply a standard

Empire are always suppose to lose a huge chunk of their territory as they have been all along. Meatshield of the world

Several Heroes are available at tier 2 and they are usually Captain parallels. HE Noble, DE Master, VC Wight for example.
Your comment about reconquering territory lost for the Empire was already covered in my original post. I would love to do that. It would feel epic, however on turn 25 having 4 provinces overrun means IA drops to -8 which has significant impacts on your growth/ public order/ and income. Get to -10 and any remaining electors declare war on you. The IA system was designed from a civil war standpoint however the updates don't leave the Empire in a state of Civil War but rather a struggle against an undead tide that will not cease (which is fine). Either the IA system needs reworked or VC need to be made more passive. Otherwise its a mess and one of the least enjoyable campaigns in the game.

The difficulty levels of this game are nothing more than artificial economical and artificial buffs to melee units of AI.
It doesn't mean AI will perform smarter. Which is what it should do.

They should improve their AI

Loupi#8512

been playing empire campaign alot lately, gotta say its probably one of the best in the game

mightygloin#2446

My experience been the opposite playing as GS. Empire confederates everyone and becomes the 1. superpower owning a huge swathe of regions. Same for Dwarfs if not for player interruption. Puny chaos tide gets destroyed in a few turns or so. But can't complain since it offers somewhat a challenge against now OP Greenskins.

Ninaran#8122

I'm glad Empire is finally getting some challenge. Could never bring myself to play as them. Fighting the same fort battle a dozen times is not great fun and you run out of enemies really quick unless you want to go fight other Empire factions. Which kinda negates the Imperial Machinations.
Means I never got the "new DLC, TiMe FoR aNoThEr EmPiRe CaMpAiGn" memes either. Glad they're more of a challenge with more enemies now.

yst#1879

^ definitely that, worst part of empire campaign is that its so stupid easy that u ran out of enemies to fight. That ure forced to tresspass due to ai being so stupid, or basically just war the empire

TheShiroOfDalton

Disagree 100%.

The Empire campaign is one of the rare WH2 campaigns that contains something important, URGENCY. You have to react to outside factors influencing your campaigns and you have to do so without being able to prepare for everything. WH2 is otherwise incredibly lousy in allowing the player to solely play the campaign on his own terms and that's just plain boring because that means the campaign progresses exactly as you want it to and you are never under any sort of pressure. In the Empire campaign, if you dawdle too long to build up strength, your authority takes damage from all the captured or destroyed provincial capitals, so you have to go out of your comfort zone and fight wars with the forces you have, not necessarily the ones you want.

This should not be changed again. In fact, more campaigns should have urgency added to them.