Balancing suggestions

outrage4

1. Wulfrik's boat.

For a spell that can one shot any unit of infantry with tight formation it is way too hard to dodge. The problem is that this ability doesn't have visual effect like all other wind spells and abilities have. Instead it has small white portal that doesn't even tell direction and a sound effect. The similar ability "Wrath of Mannan" does about as much damage as boat but it much easier to dodge since its has a proper visual effect and 5 second cast time (boat got 4). I think boat needs to have similar visual effect and +1 sec to cast time.




2. Black orc big boss ( boar mount).

Is there any reason why BOBB gets AP on boar but doesn't lose silver shield ? I am pretty sure the block chance on boar should be lowered to 30-35%(similar to Archaon,prince, dreadlord, Malekith,Wulfrik etc). At first i thought it was an overlook but the patch came and this has not been addressed.

3. Teclis on phoenix.
Charoi should not give 44% ward save to arcane phoenix. It is reasonable for a weak mage on horse to have that, but not for arcane phoenix.

Lord_Distamorfin#1941

outrage4 said:

1. Wulfrik's boat.

For a spell that can one shot any unit of infantry with tight formation it is way too hard to dodge. The problem is that this ability doesn't have visual effect like all other wind spells and abilities have. Instead it has small white portal that doesn't even tell direction and a sound effect. The similar ability "Wrath of Mannan" does about as much damage as boat but it much easier to dodge since its has a proper visual effect and 5 second cast time (boat got 4). I think boat needs to have similar visual effect and +1 sec to cast time.




2. Black orc big boss ( boar mount).

Is there any reason why BOBB gets AP on boar but doesn't lose silver shield ? I am pretty sure the block chance on boar should be lowered to 30-35%(similar to Archaon,prince, dreadlord, Malekith,Wulfrik etc). At first i thought it was an overlook but the patch came and this has not been addressed.

3. Teclis on phoenix.
Charoi should not give 44% ward save to arcane phoenix. It is reasonable for a weak mage on horse to have that, but not for arcane phoenix.

Just revert Teclis to his pre-Warden/Paunch state and call it a day. The mount and the change to his Sword of Teclis were unecessary and stupid anyway.

TlaxtlanSoothsayer

outrage4 said:

2. Black orc big boss ( boar mount).

Is there any reason why BOBB gets AP on boar but doesn't lose silver shield ? I am pretty sure the block chance on boar should be lowered to 30-35%(similar to Archaon,prince, dreadlord, Malekith,Wulfrik etc).

I have a theory regarding this topic.


Dorghar is a daemon. Archaon's mount is able to shift shapes. BOBB managed to steal the steed of the apocalypse from Archaon when the Everchosen didn't pay attention. For precisely this reason Archaon rides a pony nowadays.


BOBB also forced Dorghar to change his appearence to a boar. Daemonic boars are obviously extremely resilient to incoming missiles, therefore BOBB has a higher missile block chance than any other mounted character in the game. It is known.

littlenuke#9412

For 1, maybe add visual first, see how that changes things then change the cast time later. I dont want to overnerf it and maybe the problem lies with the visual

Lotus_Moon#2452

1 also adds frostbite to the target its quite nuts

mightygloin#2446

Is there any reason why BOBB gets AP on boar but doesn't lose silver shield ?

CreeP of da PoweR is the reason. Dude is a lord in hero slot. Hell he's way better than Orc WB.

By Grungni's hairy arse please redesign the whole WH1 like that before WH3.

Wyvern2

1)sure
2)Tbh i dont mind bobb having silver shield on boar. His shield is basically as big as him+boar already. I also dont think the aura thing is an issue outside of the stonetroll synergy. Probably ca needs to take a look at how auras in general work but singling out bobb for having an abusive application is stupid when the same logic can be applied to a lot of other aoe buffers.
3)a bandaid fix to an outright bad decision by ca, but i guess it can work(or remove the dumb phoenix from mp or even overall already)

sonofabhorash

Im not sure if i hate more Teclises bird and items combo or his Superb combo of spells
The net spell and punish leads by far
I used to hate Fay lady for her slippery But this Is a whole new level
Y sure you pay hefty price but in the end hes able to tank -kill-heal-support and generate mana like a boss
A true swiss knife

yst#1879

He deatroys every single air monster without equal, like not even close, pretty much can rekt a $2050 anti large poison terrorgheist without losing 20% hp so its not like he cant fight at all.

Mega ownage vs leon, karl, thanks to his stupid non magic ghal maraz. He makes malekith on dragon looks like a $1000 unit tbh.

Just when u think it cant go more toxic than tempest allarial, i mean there’s literally no way. Then they outdone themselves with a 120 speed god teclics with net

Lotus_Moon#2452

yst said:

He deatroys every single air monster without equal, like not even close, pretty much can rekt a $2050 anti large poison terrorgheist without losing 20% hp so its not like he cant fight at all.

Mega ownage vs leon, karl, thanks to his stupid non magic ghal maraz. He makes malekith on dragon looks like a $1000 unit tbh.

Just when u think it cant go more toxic than tempest allarial, i mean there’s literally no way. Then they outdone themselves with a 120 speed god teclics with net

Well he costs 1300g more so i do hope he wins or are you ignoring cost?

Cukie251

Lotus_Moon said:

yst said:

He deatroys every single air monster without equal, like not even close, pretty much can rekt a $2050 anti large poison terrorgheist without losing 20% hp so its not like he cant fight at all.

Mega ownage vs leon, karl, thanks to his stupid non magic ghal maraz. He makes malekith on dragon looks like a $1000 unit tbh.

Just when u think it cant go more toxic than tempest allarial, i mean there’s literally no way. Then they outdone themselves with a 120 speed god teclics with net

Well he costs 1300g more so i do hope he wins or are you ignoring cost?

Yeah! I'm sure he pays nothing for the highest WoM generation in the game!

Lotus_Moon#2452

Cukie251 said:

Lotus_Moon said:

yst said:

He deatroys every single air monster without equal, like not even close, pretty much can rekt a $2050 anti large poison terrorgheist without losing 20% hp so its not like he cant fight at all.

Mega ownage vs leon, karl, thanks to his stupid non magic ghal maraz. He makes malekith on dragon looks like a $1000 unit tbh.

Just when u think it cant go more toxic than tempest allarial, i mean there’s literally no way. Then they outdone themselves with a 120 speed god teclics with net

Well he costs 1300g more so i do hope he wins or are you ignoring cost?

Yeah! I'm sure he pays nothing for the highest WoM generation in the game!

Im sure he is using spells in combat and abilities to get those results because without it normal arcane pheonix is a better pick due to rebirth

yst#1879

Lotus_Moon said:

Well he costs 1300g more so i do hope he wins or are you ignoring cost?

Glad we r talking about costs.

For that to actually be valid would mean stop lying about $1300

And of coz none of them dare to ignore the fact a $1800 ish phoenix owning 2000+ dragons, anti large poison specialist terrorghiest. Lol even lords more expensive gets destroyed

And here comes the weakening of phoenix stories, popcorns ready. So how weak r they this time, 2 phoenix losing to silverhelms? Last time they lost to wolfkin lulz(true story! Elven swear it)

Lotus_Moon#2452

yst said:

Lotus_Moon said:

Well he costs 1300g more so i do hope he wins or are you ignoring cost?

Glad we r talking about costs.

For that to actually be valid would mean stop lying about $1300

And of coz none of them dare to ignore the fact a $1800 ish phoenix owning 2000+ dragons, anti large poison specialist terrorghiest. Lol even lords more expensive gets destroyed

And here comes the weakening of phoenix stories, popcorns ready. So how weak r they this time, 2 phoenix losing to silverhelms? Last time they lost to wolfkin lulz(true story! Elven swear it)

Because breath are free yeah?

Disposable Hero

Fire resist vs fire damage?

Fire damage vs regen monster?

yst#1879

Disposable Hero said:

Fire resist vs fire damage?

Fire damage vs regen monster?

Of coz u guys dont dare to test it on black dragons, leon, karl, forest drag, zombie dragons

Why would u lol, immediately expose it hard

Oh now they are regen monster lol, anti large and poison soooooooooooooooooo conveniently omitted.

Lotus_Moon said:

Because breath are free yeah?

Pretty sure fire resist, rebirth, vortex all free hard as well. Ward saves? free. high ld? free, speed, of coz free

Lotus_Moon#2452

yst said:

Disposable Hero said:

Fire resist vs fire damage?

Fire damage vs regen monster?

Of coz u guys dont dare to test it on black dragons, leon, karl, forest drag, zombie dragons

Why would u lol, immediately expose it hard

Oh now they are regen monster lol, anti large and poison soooooooooooooooooo conveniently omitted.

Lotus_Moon said:

Because breath are free yeah?

Pretty sure fire resist, rebirth, vortex all free hard as well. Ward saves? free. high ld? free, speed, of coz free

Teclis has rebirth/vortex come on a new low for you to lie about such obvious things

yst#1879

Who needs those when u got a 44% ward save potion for less than $100, regrowth, more mana regen than 2 slann combined lol

Changes from arcane to texlics mount as quickly as harkon. Its as if ppl dont get the fact both arcane r op af. Muddying only gets u that far really.

Lotus_Moon#2452

yst said:

Who needs those when u got a 44% ward save potion for less than $100, regrowth, more mana regen than 2 slann combined lol

Changes from arcane to texlics mount as quickly as harkon. Its as if ppl dont get the fact both arcane r op af. Muddying only gets u that far really.

And that makes him cost 3500 Kitted out, glad you’re starting to realize

yst#1879

Teclics. Phoenix. Regrowth. Potion. Sword. Arcane. Unless fail math, its not $3500

Is there a reason u why need to inflate, twist and muddy the numbers?

Disposable Hero

yst said:

Teclics. Phoenix. Regrowth. Potion. Sword. Arcane. Unless fail math, its not $3500

Is there a reason u why need to inflate, twist and muddy the numbers?

Full kit is 3300 or 3500 depending on if you pick fiery or not (you should), but most importantly it also includes wom usage.

I have not yet seen you make a proper balance discussion not ignoring selected stats not fitting what you want to see, and roster context. Funny you think others muddy, you need to increase your bandwidth to process more input than 5 stats and a 1v1 test vs ai. You also need to stop calling everyone losers, be degrading or otherwise try to bully people. It doesn't work and you don't seem to realise its not working. This may only be an Internet forum, but it's also not high school anymore.

yst#1879

So ure saying his kit is not worth it then? Kinda cant change ur mind like harkon, its just not working.

Theres already hard proven facts about $1850 arcane phoenix. So unless u wanna play highschool and join the elven gang in resisting facts thats totally fine.

Then theres teclic phoenix. So now ure saying his kit is garbage.

Better illustrate which one of them is useless. So kindleflame, net, regrowth not worth bringing, or is the helf free mentality kicking in and they should be free.

Doubt trying to muddy things the highschool way isnt gonna work here.

Ld,
Speed
Resist

R just some of the solid numbers.

Arcane phoenix can easily be tested live 39 vs 39. However i doubt any of the fanbois dare to do so as it will immediately expose the truth





Ps. Bro, u really wanna play the full kit card? I mean its about time ppl bring 6 spells on their mage and cry expensive.

Lotus_Moon#2452

I dunno how you test this crap....louen and karl absolutely butcher Arcane pheonix, dragons loose....hmm i wonder why maybe fire dmg vs fire resit would have something to do with this but ofcourse those are "yst" tests, zombie dragon wins...one one that lost was a forest dragon but forest dragons are welll...mehh

Pocman#6295

Lotus_Moon said:

I dunno how you test this crap....louen and karl absolutely butcher Arcane pheonix, dragons loose....hmm i wonder why maybe fire dmg vs fire resit would have something to do with this but ofcourse those are "yst" tests, zombie dragon wins...one one that lost was a forest dragon but forest dragons are welll...mehh

Nah, black dragon loses too. But in general, dragons underperform in the air due to animations.

In my tests, Karl was close. Always lost if the resurrection was triggered, lost some without it needing to trigger, won some.

Lotus_Moon#2452

Pocman said:

Lotus_Moon said:

I dunno how you test this crap....louen and karl absolutely butcher Arcane pheonix, dragons loose....hmm i wonder why maybe fire dmg vs fire resit would have something to do with this but ofcourse those are "yst" tests, zombie dragon wins...one one that lost was a forest dragon but forest dragons are welll...mehh

Nah, black dragon loses too. But in general, dragons underperform in the air due to animations.

In my tests, Karl was close. Always lost if the resurrection was triggered, lost some without it needing to trigger, won some.

I had black dragon win vs 2200g telics each time.

outrage4

I had frostheart phoenix beating black dragon 1 v 1. Single entity duels are nothing but RNG rolls. To have legitimate results you need to do 100 or more tests.

Pocman#6295

Lotus_Moon said:

Pocman said:

Lotus_Moon said:

I dunno how you test this crap....louen and karl absolutely butcher Arcane pheonix, dragons loose....hmm i wonder why maybe fire dmg vs fire resit would have something to do with this but ofcourse those are "yst" tests, zombie dragon wins...one one that lost was a forest dragon but forest dragons are welll...mehh

Nah, black dragon loses too. But in general, dragons underperform in the air due to animations.

In my tests, Karl was close. Always lost if the resurrection was triggered, lost some without it needing to trigger, won some.

I had black dragon win vs 2200g telics each time.

I tested it v the normal phoenix. Maybe in some of them the phoenix resurrected?

yst#1879

Nothing new, simply trying hard to muddy the test trying teclics $2200 deliberately ignoring the $1850 severely underpriced arcane phoenix. The biggest joke is that knowing the ENTIRE scenario will change with a potion costing barely just $70.

Arcane will win all other single air monster everytime. Its a hard proven fact thats been tested numerous times. They have significantly more hp, over 30% saves in physical and ward combined. Own the crap hard out of leon and karl both of which costs $100sss more.

Stupidly punching way above owning black dragons like a joke. Its good to see ppl ignoring terrogheist also using pathetic fire vulnerability as an excuse while happily ignoring poison negation affects. Even a poison anti large specialists get destroyed by the underprice arcane.


So much talks, can so easily be solved in 1 single test game 39 arcane vs 39 terror, black whatver. I also wonder if ppl realise rebirth can proc multiple times. Near 2.5k per proc. With that absurd 90ld its extremely common to see it proc twice and heal cap them. Even without, its a risk free unit where u know they r severely underpriced

yst#1879

outrage4 said:

I had frostheart phoenix beating black dragon 1 v 1. Single entity duels are nothing but RNG rolls. To have legitimate results you need to do 100 or more tests.

U really need to up ur smurf account game. 1-3 hits u can whinge about rng. Fights lasted thing long and u used the rng card lol come on.

Like pls, if its so rng a $650 basti can easily own a $3800 dreadsaurian

Coz u know #semrngduel

Now, grab ur popcorns and enjoy the potion of chario is perfectly balance and need buffs on teclics phoenix.

Lotus_Moon#2452

On i tested both just showing how bias your tests are where you try take charecters vs monsters and ignore the fact that charecters on monsters always pay more than the feral version.