Next DLC: A lost opportunity

bradleyvincentwells#9754

Please, do not get me wrong. The Wood Elves needed an overhaul, probably more so than any other faction. And while I'm not angry that the next TW:WH2 DLC will feature the Wood Elves, I am disappointed that it seems the Dwarfs are left out in the Chaos Wastes once again.

In a game that features the Skaven, a race so bitterly hated by the Dwarfs, why are the Dawi denied their turn to face off against the Ratmen in Total War: Warhammer 2's the Eye of the Vortex campaign? It really is a shame. I say this under the assumption that the next DLC will likely feature Wood Elves and Skaven. That pairing seems far more interesting than WE v. Dark Elves or WE v. Lizardmen. I'm not even including High Elves in the equation because they just had DLC. If there is another content pack after this Wood Elf-featured one, it will likely focus on Beastmen or Norsca. Both factions are unlikely to face off against the Dwarfs and, even if they did, I don't find the match-up appealing in the same way as Dwarfs v. Skaven.

TW:WH2 simply screamed for a Dawi v. Ratmen lord pack, and it seems very likely that this won't happen in the game's life cycle. It's unlikely to happen in the next game either since neither race is considered a "core" race for that game.

I keep wondering why CA chose to feature the WE in this next pack. I don't think it had to do with the faction needing an overhaul. They could have just uplifted them as part of the free content update, but not included them in the Eye of the Vortex campaign; much like how they did the Dwarfs and their update in May 2018. For people owning both Warhammer games and the Realm of the Wood Elves DLC, CA could have just awarded those loyal customers with a free legendary Wood Elf lord. That likely would have appeased what few WE players there are while motivating more to purchase the Realm of the Wood Elves DLC to get the free lord along with Orion and Durthu.

Another reason to scratch your head about Wood Elves getting the DLC love is their army roster is pretty much set. Other than a War Dancer hero and the Spellweaver general, there isn't anything else. Not unless you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel (Zoats) or simply making up new stuff just for the heck of it. Meanwhile, Dwarfs have units like Doomseekers, Rune Guardians, Daemon Slayers, the Gronti-Duraz, Shard Dragons, and several other units and features (runemaking) that haven't seen the game yet.

Since Clan Moulder is the Skaven faction most likely to get featured in the next DLC, led by Throt the Unclean, I'm even more disappointed. Throt is such an excellent nemesis for currently absent Dwarf lords like Thorek Ironbrow, Grimm Burloksson, or Malakai Makaisson.

Throt v. Ariel? Throt v. Drycha? It just doesn't appeal to me.

All this plus the Dwarfs have not received a new legendary lord since February 2017! That's when Grombrindal was made available to everyone as a FLC. And before you think it, no, Gotrek does not count. Between Feb. 2017 and today, we've seen game one factions like Empire, Greenskins, Bretonnia, and soon Wood Elves receive new lords. And unlike Empire, Bretonnia, Greenskins, and Wood Elves, when the Dwarfs received their much-needed update in 2018, they didn't get a new lord to accompany that fix!*

Yes, this slight against the Dawi is most certainly recorded in the Great Book of Grudges.

It seems like a massive lost opportunity on CA's part. When last I checked, Dwarfs had the second most Steam achievements in game one behind only the Empire. How could such a popular faction get shutout of Total War: Warhammer 2? A game that features their bitter enemy (Skaven) as a core race. I think it likely we will see a Dwarfs DLC in the third game, likely pairing them against the Chaos Dwarfs. But something like that is probably at least two years away. That is an awful long time to neglect such a popular faction.

It is certainly possible I'm wrong on all this, but I don't think I am when it comes to Dawi v. Skaven getting a lord pack in TW:WH2. That Thunderbarge has sailed, and it is a shame.

*Vampire Counts received a game two facelift without a new lord for the The Eye of the Vortex campaign. However, that faction already had five legendary lords.

Omega_Warrior

Because they are saving them to fight the chaos dwarfs.

ROMOBOY#7812

I would like to try and say that they still have a chance. But I really don’t see that being likely. I will say though, that once WH3 comes out, the first crossover dlc they’ll do, will definitely have Dwarfs first.

Xenos777

Omega_Warrior said:

Because they are saving them to fight the chaos dwarfs.

This. It's a classic match.

UberReptilian#8431

Hey man, there's always Thanquol in game III. Skaven vs Dwarfs. Need them Verminlords anyway. Plenty of Dwarf content for multiple Dwarf packs, Thorek Ironbrow for a Rune theme, Grimm Burlockson for an Engineer theme and Malakai for a Slayer theme. Plenty of content.
But, yeah should've done Eshin VS Dwarfs last year and then they could've done DE VS WE now.

Wood Elves needed a DLC though, just for LLs and their mechanics being fixed honestly. Spellweavers were the only real missing unit for me, all other units are icing on the cake for getting them fixed and up to par.

Really though, Thanquol VS Dwarfs CA do it. The real reason we need Dwarfs VS Skaven is so we can get some lines where Dwarfs say "Thaggoraki".

AHumpierRogue#5296

Xenos7 said:

Omega_Warrior said:

Because they are saving them to fight the chaos dwarfs.

This. It's a classic match.

Is it actually? While obviously by nature of the Warhammer universe Chaos Dwarfs and Dwarfs have fought, it's more in the same vein of how Dwarfs and Lizardmen have fought, they fought because it's Warhammer not because of any grand narrative. they really have not fought as much as you would expect. Neither race is really a big part of the others lore, they mostly just leave each other alone and occasionally fight but not in any major way, much like any dlc. It is definitely an appealing idea but IMO I would not call it a classic match.

Xenos777

Krunch said:

Xenos7 said:

Omega_Warrior said:

Because they are saving them to fight the chaos dwarfs.

This. It's a classic match.

Is it actually? While obviously by nature of the Warhammer universe Chaos Dwarfs and Dwarfs have fought, it's more in the same vein of how Dwarfs and Lizardmen have fought, they fought because it's Warhammer not because of any grand narrative. they really have not fought as much as you would expect. Neither race is really a big part of the others lore, they mostly just leave each other alone and occasionally fight but not in any major way, much like any dlc. It is definitely an appealing idea but IMO I would not call it a classic match.

Conceptually classic.

UberReptilian#8431

Krunch said:

Xenos7 said:

Omega_Warrior said:

Because they are saving them to fight the chaos dwarfs.

This. It's a classic match.

Is it actually? While obviously by nature of the Warhammer universe Chaos Dwarfs and Dwarfs have fought, they really have not fought as much as you would expect. Neither race is really a big part of the others lore, they mostly just leave each other alone and occasionally fight but not in any major way. It is definitely an appealing idea but IMO I would not call it a classic match.

On top of that isn't the whole point that the Dwarfs pretend the Dawi Zharr don't exist as that would mean admitting that they can not only be tempted by Chaos, but they abandoned their brothers in the Darklands in their time of need and what's become of them is kinda the Dwarfs fault?

lucibuis#6195

Dwarves has tons on content and the lord pack will be game 3, they are peripherical in game 2 while prominent in game 3.

Game 2 is Lizardmen and elves

Nyxilis#3646

Ultimately, for me the rivalries? Absolutely freaking pointless. I didn't buy one single lord pack because of the theme. Even if I often base my thoughts on what is next from theme that is only the rules by which CA seems to function.

Otherwise, it's the individual lords, the individual units, the individual heros and mechanics. I wanted more WE lls, and Thrott. That they are fighting each other largely doesn't matter to me, even if they simply didn't have any rivalry at all and just said. Hey this is what we get.

Thrott in ME Hellpit is more interesting to me than having it smashed up the WE's butt just for some rivalry nonsense.

UberReptilian#8431

lucibuis said:

Dwarves has tons on content and the lord pack will be game 3, they are peripherical in game 2 while prominent in game 3.

Game 2 is Lizardmen and elves

Don't you hate the Skaven though? Figured you wouldn't a WE DLC to revolve around the Rat-men.
Unless you don't think it's gonna be the Thaggoraki and the Druchii instead?

saweendra#3399

UberReptilian said:

lucibuis said:

Dwarves has tons on content and the lord pack will be game 3, they are peripherical in game 2 while prominent in game 3.

Game 2 is Lizardmen and elves

Don't you hate the Skaven though? Figured you wouldn't a WE DLC to revolve around the Rat-men.
Unless you don't think it's gonna be the Thaggoraki and the Druchii instead?

even skaven hate skaven , so no issue but its meh or meh so other side of this dlc does not interest me

Erminaz#1429

Omega_Warrior said:

Because they are saving them to fight the chaos dwarfs.

Impossible, Chaos Dwarfs don't exist and Dwarfs never have kinstrife. Thus why Ulthuan was responsible for attacks done by the Druchii.

Draxynnic#3149

I think the general reasoning is that there isn't really anywhere left that really fits to place a Dawi lord. Karak Zorn is now Grom's province capital, the Grey Prospectors have three other LLs surrounding them so they're a bit boxed in, and I don't think you can really fit dwarfs into the mountains of Naggaroth. That pretty much just leaves the Spine of Sotek, but it's hard to justify any of the dwarf special characters going out that far. I think they're just saving the dwarf crossgame lord pack for Game 3 where it'll be a more natural fit, even if that means giving up on Dwarfs versus Skaven.

XxXScorpionXxX#2310

We don't actually know if Skaven is the faction they're talking about. Its all speculation. And because its speculation consider the following.


Everyone insisted that DLC for DLC would never happen.

Everyone KNEW that Lizardmen wouldn't be in the next DLC after the Profit and the Warlock.

Everyone KNEW that GS vs HE would come next, back when we got Skaven vs DE instead.

Is it possible that Skaven are the next ones up? Sure its possible, hell I'll even say its likely. But we have no reason to think it wont be DE or LM instead. Or hell, even HE again either.

Itharus#3127

tl:dr:

"I'm mad my favorite race didn't get the DLC this round."

Draxynnic#3149

XxXScorpionXxX said:

Everyone KNEW that GS vs HE would next come back when we got Skaven vs DE instead.

Well... people figured out it was going to be Skaven versus DE as soon as CA admitted that the lord pack after Hunter and Beast wouldn't come with an Old World rework.

#27359

The simple reason for choosing the WE is that they wanted to test this sale model going forward. If this is succesful, they are going to need something similar for beastmen.

If they have additional content in mind for the Tomb Kings or Vampire Coast, a similar model could be used for selling that DLC.

UberReptilian#8431

Itharus said:

tl:dr:

"I'm mad my favorite race didn't get the DLC this round."

Lol, well the solution is to make your favourite race be Skaven and then you always win!

lucibuis#6195

UberReptilian said:

lucibuis said:

Dwarves has tons on content and the lord pack will be game 3, they are peripherical in game 2 while prominent in game 3.

Game 2 is Lizardmen and elves

Don't you hate the Skaven though? Figured you wouldn't a WE DLC to revolve around the Rat-men.
Unless you don't think it's gonna be the Thaggoraki and the Druchii instead?

I hate skaven but I only play wood elves anyways so whoever they add is irrelevant to me.

XxXScorpionXxX#2310

Draxynnic said:

XxXScorpionXxX said:

Everyone KNEW that GS vs HE would next come back when we got Skaven vs DE instead.

Well... people figured out it was going to be Skaven versus DE as soon as CA admitted that the lord pack after Hunter and Beast wouldn't come with an Old World rework.

but before that everyone was expecting Grom and dos Knife Ears.

SerPus#7395

Why do people care so much about rivalries? It's not like only factions that came in one DLC can fight each other.

Itharus#3127

lucibuis said:

UberReptilian said:

lucibuis said:

Dwarves has tons on content and the lord pack will be game 3, they are peripherical in game 2 while prominent in game 3.

Game 2 is Lizardmen and elves

Don't you hate the Skaven though? Figured you wouldn't a WE DLC to revolve around the Rat-men.
Unless you don't think it's gonna be the Thaggoraki and the Druchii instead?

I hate skaven but I only play wood elves anyways so whoever they add is irrelevant to me.

Sooooooooooo next time you offer balance suggestions about any race NOT wood elves... I'mma quote this post.

Beast_of_Guanyin#8747

I don't see the issue.

A Slayer LP works perfectly well against Demons, Chaos Dwarfs, or Ogres. Plenty of time for it.

XxXScorpionXxX#2310

Grenefell said:

The simple reason for choosing the WE is that they wanted to test this sale model going forward. If this is succesful, they are going to need something similar for beastmen.

If they have additional content in mind for the Tomb Kings or Vampire Coast, a similar model could be used for selling that DLC.

Its baffling to me as a marketer why they would even say that. Everyone that would read their regular updates are super fans that not only would buy this WE DLC but Pre-Order it too.

The only people that they could be referring to are casual fans who don't buy every DLC as if it came with a vaccine for Covid-19. And those fans aren't reading their update posts.

So they leave their super fans in an awkward position. If the sales aren't what they hoped for will it be because the super fans didn't literally act as their sales department and try to sell random people on this DLC? Do they expect super fans to buy multiple copies themselves? If thats not their intent why even mention it? All it will do is breed resentment among the community.

Imagine if we don't get a Beastmen Lordpack now. How are fans going to react? Are they going to attack casual fans for not purchasing the WE DLC? Are they going to do infighting against people who might be disappointed over the lords and units chosen?

This can only end poorly. Even if their intent was only making DLC lord packs if they sell well you don't say that part out loud. You simply put out FLC lords for Beastmen, give them an old world update and give the BM the next Access or Skulls for the Skull Throne FLC event.

The only reason I can muster as to say this now is they expect the DLC wont sell well and are trying to get in front of the storm that would come if no BM lord pack happens. But thats being pessimistic something a company shouldn't be about their own products.

lucibuis#6195

XxXScorpionXxX said:

Grenefell said:

The simple reason for choosing the WE is that they wanted to test this sale model going forward. If this is succesful, they are going to need something similar for beastmen.

If they have additional content in mind for the Tomb Kings or Vampire Coast, a similar model could be used for selling that DLC.

Its baffling to me as a marketer why they would even say that. Everyone that would read their regular updates are super fans that not only would buy this WE DLC but Pre-Order it too.

The only people that they could be referring to are casual fans who don't buy every DLC as if it came with a vaccine for Covid-19. And those fans aren't reading their update posts.

So they leave their super fans in an awkward position. If the sales aren't what they hoped for will it be because the super fans didn't literally act as their sales department and try to sell random people on this DLC? Do they expect super fans to buy multiple copies themselves? If thats not their intent why even mention it? All it will do is breed resentment among the community.

Imagine if we don't get a Beastmen Lordpack now. How are fans going to react? Are they going to attack casual fans for not purchasing the WE DLC? Are they going to do infighting against people who might be disappointed over the lords and units chosen?

This can only end poorly. Even if their intent was only making DLC lord packs if they sell well you don't say that part out loud. You simply put out FLC lords for Beastmen, give them an old world update and give the BM the next Access or Skulls for the Skull Throne FLC event.

The only reason I can muster as to say this now is they expect the DLC wont sell well and are trying to get in front of the storm that would come if no BM lord pack happens. But thats being pessimistic something a company shouldn't be about their own products.

mhhh no lol, I'm sure that was more tnogue in cheek and they might be scared of the reaction of a dlc for dlc, which is not anyways but people are dumb.

In any case, I'm sure this dlc will sell amazing considering how high on the sales chart has been and is RotWE and I'm sure they already planned or started working on the beastmen DLC.

Cody_811

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

I don't see the issue.

A Slayer LP works perfectly well against Demons, Chaos Dwarfs, or Ogres. Plenty of time for it.

Sure, but there is a solid chance that it is a looooong way off. Game 3 probably coming mid to late 2021, then a few rounds of game 3 LPs, throw in a race pack or 2, possibly some new type of DLC, then who knows which factions will come in which order for crossovers and new faction updates.

Cody_811

Cody_811 said:

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

I don't see the issue.

A Slayer LP works perfectly well against Demons, Chaos Dwarfs, or Ogres. Plenty of time for it.

Sure, but there is a solid chance that it is a looooong way off. Game 3 probably coming mid to late 2021, then a few rounds of game 3 LPs, throw in a race pack or 2, possibly some new type of DLC, then who knows which factions will come in which order for crossovers and new faction updates.

One saving grace is that a Slayer v Beastmen pack would be super thematic to a broad audience. Both races get a facelift and are introduced to the Vortex campaign; I will just have to cross my fingers and hope for some CA benevolence for my stunts boys.

RikRiorik#9890

I for one am glad the Dwarfs seemingly dodged the bullet. Looking much more forward to experiencing a Dwarf Lord on a new map and in a new campaign.

Nyxilis#3646

I mean, at this point if they do want to do a dwarf LP as a crossover might as well save it for game 3 and throw them up against the Chaos Dwarves. It's every bit as deserved as a skaven vs dwarf one.

Draxynnic#3149

XxXScorpionXxX said:

Draxynnic said:

XxXScorpionXxX said:

Everyone KNEW that GS vs HE would next come back when we got Skaven vs DE instead.

Well... people figured out it was going to be Skaven versus DE as soon as CA admitted that the lord pack after Hunter and Beast wouldn't come with an Old World rework.

but before that everyone was expecting Grom and dos Knife Ears.

And the only thing that was wrong with that expectation was the timing. Furthermore, it was based on the assumption that Grom and Eltharion would be paired that people correctly predicted that the post-H&B lord pack would be DEvSk. The only point where that prediction fell down was the assumption that CA would proceed directly to another race update rather than focusing on backend stuff instead.