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Summoned units should benefit from associated factionwide buffs and lord skills

Jman5Jman5 Registered Users Posts: 648
edited August 1 in General Discussion
Playing Vampire Counts lately, I realized that the zombie and skeleton summons I was raising got literally no benefits from all the skill points and technology I was investing into making normal zombies and skeletons better. Even the special regeneration ability the zombies are all supposed to get from Kemmler's unique equipment was not applying. Just take a look at the difference:



For the record the rank 4 chevron is only giving +4 leadership and +1 Melee Attack/Defense.

I think the most frustrating part of all this is that without getting any of the bonuses I've picked up, summoned unit's leadership is often absolutely abysmal. You can see on the unit card, that the only thing keeping my recruited zombies in the fight are the +leadership bonuses I've picked up. It's all well and good that zombies are meant to just be sacrificial meat shields, but it's kind of hard to fulfill that role when their summoned version begins crumbling the second I spawn them. I also see similar things happening with Menace Below vs anything that isn't an archer.

Summoned units should get all the factionwide and Lord Buffs that apply to their non-summoned counterpart. This would not only help future-proof them into the mid-late game, but would give value to picking up skills/techs for units you might not get otherwise. It's also intuitive that summoned clan rats or zombies would benefit from technology that buffs clan rats or zombies.

Comments

  • ROMOBOYROMOBOY Registered Users Posts: 1,701
  • mightygloinmightygloin Registered Users Posts: 2,709
    Same goes for garrisons.
  • Cadia101Cadia101 Registered Users Posts: 689
    Do the IA use the tech tree ?

  • Jman5Jman5 Registered Users Posts: 648
    Cadia101 said:

    Do the IA use the tech tree ?

    AI? Yes.
  • GloatingSwineGloatingSwine Registered Users Posts: 363

    Same goes for garrisons.

    Garrisons do get tech bonuses AFAIK, but lords only give bonuses to their own army. So if you have two armies reinforcing each other each lord only buffs his own troops.
  • Jman5Jman5 Registered Users Posts: 648

    Same goes for garrisons.

    Garrisons do get tech bonuses AFAIK, but lords only give bonuses to their own army. So if you have two armies reinforcing each other each lord only buffs his own troops.
    One thing I would like to see are garrisons receiving Chevron/level boosts that are applied in the local province and factionwide. So if your local province and faction gives +4 rank toward melee infantry, then the melee infantry in your garrison will at least be rank 4. Would make them a little more resilient in the mid-late game when everyone is running around with rank 9 armies.

    Would also be nice if garrison commanders/spell casters had some sort of leveling up process too that tracked with the normal bonuses their hero counterparts got in the province/faction. Kind of lame to get a fire wizard in your garrison only for him to be stuck with nothing but fireball.
  • DwarfSizedBeardDwarfSizedBeard Registered Users Posts: 129
    Summoned units need no buffs as is they are already incredibly strong, until they recive a nerf that limits how far away they can be summoned by an enemy unit, they shouldn't get anything, because this doesn't just effect vampire cost, it would also buff the 8000 skaven summon a you fight every battle
  • Lord_DistamorfinLord_Distamorfin Registered Users Posts: 1,003

    Summoned units need no buffs as is they are already incredibly strong, until they recive a nerf that limits how far away they can be summoned by an enemy unit, they shouldn't get anything, because this doesn't just effect vampire cost, it would also buff the 8000 skaven summon a you fight every battle

    How much further can summoned units possibly get nerfed? They already expire for no reason after a set amount of time and you can only summon them fairly close to the caster.
  • DwarfSizedBeardDwarfSizedBeard Registered Users Posts: 129

    Summoned units need no buffs as is they are already incredibly strong, until they recive a nerf that limits how far away they can be summoned by an enemy unit, they shouldn't get anything, because this doesn't just effect vampire cost, it would also buff the 8000 skaven summon a you fight every battle

    How much further can summoned units possibly get nerfed? They already expire for no reason after a set amount of time and you can only summon them fairly close to the caster.
    Except like ALL spells they have plenty of range, beyond that, there's lots of summons that are not tied to characters and can be dropped anywhere on the map at anytime, which are blatantly op, the AI fails to use it well out of incompetence, but there is only one vad summon, which is a dwarf summon you can get from an item, because there offensive stats suck, and they don't last long enough to deal damage, but every other summon in the game can be used on the enemies artillery, or there really deadly ranged units that will die if put into melee, they are very much op
  • Jman5Jman5 Registered Users Posts: 648

    Summoned units need no buffs as is they are already incredibly strong, until they recive a nerf that limits how far away they can be summoned by an enemy unit, they shouldn't get anything, because this doesn't just effect vampire cost, it would also buff the 8000 skaven summon a you fight every battle

    How much further can summoned units possibly get nerfed? They already expire for no reason after a set amount of time and you can only summon them fairly close to the caster.
    Except like ALL spells they have plenty of range, beyond that, there's lots of summons that are not tied to characters and can be dropped anywhere on the map at anytime, which are blatantly op, the AI fails to use it well out of incompetence, but there is only one vad summon, which is a dwarf summon you can get from an item, because there offensive stats suck, and they don't last long enough to deal damage, but every other summon in the game can be used on the enemies artillery, or there really deadly ranged units that will die if put into melee, they are very much op
    What?

    Nearly all the generic summoning spells that I'm aware of have only a 60 meter cast range. Menace Below and the Tomb King's one time Ushabti summon are the only standard map-wide summons that I can think of. There are a couple more but they are highly contingent requiring things like Rites being active.
  • DwarfSizedBeardDwarfSizedBeard Registered Users Posts: 129
    Jman5 said:

    Summoned units need no buffs as is they are already incredibly strong, until they recive a nerf that limits how far away they can be summoned by an enemy unit, they shouldn't get anything, because this doesn't just effect vampire cost, it would also buff the 8000 skaven summon a you fight every battle

    How much further can summoned units possibly get nerfed? They already expire for no reason after a set amount of time and you can only summon them fairly close to the caster.
    Except like ALL spells they have plenty of range, beyond that, there's lots of summons that are not tied to characters and can be dropped anywhere on the map at anytime, which are blatantly op, the AI fails to use it well out of incompetence, but there is only one vad summon, which is a dwarf summon you can get from an item, because there offensive stats suck, and they don't last long enough to deal damage, but every other summon in the game can be used on the enemies artillery, or there really deadly ranged units that will die if put into melee, they are very much op
    What?

    Nearly all the generic summoning spells that I'm aware of have only a 60 meter cast range. Menace Below and the Tomb King's one time Ushabti summon are the only standard map-wide summons that I can think of. There are a couple more but they are highly contingent requiring things like Rites being active.
    Nakaii alone has 2, one of which is factionwide both are permanent, and you can't pretend like just because there's less summons like that doesn't mean they aren't broken, ushapti is mostly alright because you don't get them until after you deal with stuff like artillery, but menace from below is stupidly OP, and 60 meters isn't a short distance, that's WELL beyond what it takes to get a unit onto soft targets, all summons are really strong, some are just blatantly op
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