My list of improvements to Skaven IF they are in next DLC:

Rat-ee-jiK#7094

To bring skaven up t a very high standard CA can:
- add some free new units/lords/heroes etc.
- fix the UI settlements tab to include skaven undercities as ell as over ground settlements.
- Make queek and particularly tretch better in campaign via new traits/campaign wide perks/items.
- possibly add a unique undercity building for each faction to increase faction distinctiveness (better ones for weaker factions, weak ones for strong factions like Skyre). This would also bring them into line with clan Pestilens who got the new pox couldren in udercities not long ago.
- Re-examine plagues and AI usage of plagues again as they are a bit on the weak side. This would help out pestilens who are now nearly always destroyed early on by Itza nasty lizard things.
- Bearing in mind that with Skaven as with all factions some units are useful and some are not very useful, i.e do not help you win battles as much:
Rebalence some units to nerf them (e.g artillery nerf, possible nerf to jezails, ratling gunners, ikkits warp grinders which are super OP). To compensate for this make other units stronger. My list would include: gutter runners (crap), stormvermin (not worth it unless playing as Queek), night runners (also a bit crap), poison globe mortars and poison wind globes (usually outperformed by artillery by a long shot. A bit redunant compared to plague claw catapults).
- Enable night runners/gutter runners to quickly climb walls in cities. Add an animation for this. Or possibly start inside city walls to enable settlement capture.
- Add W/L cannons to ikkits workshop as intended by Devs.
- even consider adding battles underground in or around undercities.
- General rework to the underway mechanics for all relevant factions incl skaven/WE.

So there's a lot that CA COULD do, the question is what will they actually do bearing in mind that the skaven would be the minor party in this DLC?

saweendra#3399

they are doing a WE rework not wh 2 faction rework

Beast_of_Guanyin#8747

I imagine Skaven will get the lions share of the LP if they're in it. I don't think that'll include a rework.

saweendra#3399

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

I imagine Skaven will get the lions share of the LP if they're in it. I don't think that'll include a rework.

no they won't

saweendra#3399

they already said there will WE rework Dlc and Flc units as well as dlc and flc LL . and lot more in blog post, expecting lion share for skaven is delusional warp stone induced dream

Beast_of_Guanyin#8747

kasunrathnatunga said:

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

I imagine Skaven will get the lions share of the LP if they're in it. I don't think that'll include a rework.

no they won't

Ok.

Uagrim#4644

kasunrathnatunga said:

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

I imagine Skaven will get the lions share of the LP if they're in it. I don't think that'll include a rework.

no they won't

Given the precedence set by the last two lord packs involving skaven it will likely be the case again. With them hogging the best mechanics.

As for the OP


-Why? Skaven already have four hero choices that is enough for the moment
-Switching between them works well enough
-They are viable just not as strong as the other three due to the fact that they are more mundane, a slight change to their traits would be all that is needed
-Only Rictus and Mors are missing a specific undercity building
-Plagues are annoying to deal with and when skaven get them off they can be pretty impactful cause the other AI's can't handle it
-Balance changes will come but the hole campaign balance is towards monsters and ranged units.
-Could be done
-Sure
-Not sure how those would work out

saweendra#3399

Uagrim said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

I imagine Skaven will get the lions share of the LP if they're in it. I don't think that'll include a rework.

no they won't

Given the precedence set by the last two lord packs involving skaven it will likely be the case again. With them hogging the best mechanics.

As for the OP


-Why? Skaven already have four hero choices that is enough for the moment
-Switching between them works well enough
-They are viable just not as strong as the other three due to the fact that they are more mundane, a slight change to their traits would be all that is needed
-Only Rictus and Mors are missing a specific undercity building
-Plagues are annoying to deal with and when skaven get them off they can be pretty impactful cause the other AI's can't handle it
-Balance changes will come but the hole campaign balance is towards monsters and ranged units.
-Could be done
-Sure
-Not sure how those would work out

No i disagree its because they added so much in previous dlc there isn't really anything in terms of new mechanics skaven could get.

If were to bet that would get a mechanci similar to either groms cauldron or ikit workshop to practice molder flesh crafting, and probably a another mehanic based on clan eshin stuff.

And as stated on my previous comment i suggest re reading blog post you would see they are saying metric ton of stiff for WE. They wouldn't so boldly claim such stuff unless most of the budget has been allocated to asarai.

Slayer_Yannir#8069

I'd like to add a few things I've been mulling over.

A. Clan Mors shouldn't have Loyalty. In the lore, Clan Mors is known as the clan of remarkably loyal members. Queek's dislike of Grey Seers could be done in another way than loyalty. Mors troops should also be better, all of them, and not just Clanrats. Their Stromvermin should be a force to be reckoned with. Their traits that are normally gained from loyalty dilemmas, should be acquired in a different way.

B. Rictus should get free Skavenslaves. They are known in lore as the largest warlord clan by a large margin, their numbers should reflect that. They should also get cheaper Stormvermin. I'd actually like this to be removed from Queek, and given to Rictus as a faction. Queek should get very elite Stormvermin but Tretch would get them cheaper.

C. Rework the skaven recruit traits. Sharp Claws and Sharp Teeth are so bad they are just inferior versions of regular traits. The only good one is Warpstone Hoarder.
Give the skaven traits that are based on the clans, and the Grey Seers.
Warpstone Hoarder, for example, would be changed to Skryre Scientist that reduces upkeep of Weapons Teams, Doomwheels, Doomflayers and Warp-Lighting Cannons by 10%. The trait would only be available on Warlock Engineers and Warlock Masters. Warlords could give buffs to melee units, like the Mors Training trait, that would give +5 MA/MD/LDS to Clanrats, Death Runners, Eshin Triads, Plague Monk units and Stormvermin.

DeadpoolSW#7283

The only faction changes that I would have for Queek is a harsher penalty for not holding Karak Eight Peaks, maybe locking out SOME of the other clan elites until he takes the city, similar to how Skarsnik can't recruit orc units.

UberReptilian#8431

Yannir said:

Rictus should get free Skavenslaves. They are known in lore as the largest warlord clan by a large margin, their numbers should reflect that. They should also get cheaper Stormvermin. I'd actually like this to be removed from Queek, and given to Rictus as a faction. Queek should get very elite Stormvermin but Tretch would get them cheaper.

Rictus' whole schtick is making better Stormvermin to sell. They should be able to produce Deathvermin. Easy reskin to make from Stormvermin.

davedave1124#4773

kasunrathnatunga said:

they already said there will WE rework Dlc and Flc units as well as dlc and flc LL . and lot more in blog post, expecting lion share for skaven is delusional warp stone induced dream

Not really. The WEs simply have few unique units, while Skaven have 3 DLCs worth of content remaining.

General_Hijalti#1213

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

they already said there will WE rework Dlc and Flc units as well as dlc and flc LL . and lot more in blog post, expecting lion share for skaven is delusional warp stone induced dream

Not really. The WEs simply have few unique units, while Skaven have 3 DLCs worth of content remaining.

CA needs to convince people that this lord pack for a dlc race is worth it.
They have already said as much, that won't happen if they get the short end of the stick.

UberReptilian#8431

Boreal said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

they already said there will WE rework Dlc and Flc units as well as dlc and flc LL . and lot more in blog post, expecting lion share for skaven is delusional warp stone induced dream

Not really. The WEs simply have few unique units, while Skaven have 3 DLCs worth of content remaining.

CA needs to convince people that this lord pack for a dlc race is worth it.
They have already said as much, that won't happen if they get the short end of the stick.

That's kinda on CA than for choosing a Race that has barely any interesting units left or even units period.
Not saying it's a bad thing after all they needed LLs and mechanic updates, but as for units not a whole lot interesting to sell, but we'll see.

Beast_of_Guanyin#8747

Boreal said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

they already said there will WE rework Dlc and Flc units as well as dlc and flc LL . and lot more in blog post, expecting lion share for skaven is delusional warp stone induced dream

Not really. The WEs simply have few unique units, while Skaven have 3 DLCs worth of content remaining.

CA needs to convince people that this lord pack for a dlc race is worth it.
They have already said as much, that won't happen if they get the short end of the stick.

I just don't see the WE having the content left for a good LP half. CA can sell that message with the WE rework. They don't need to do it with the LP units. They can't.

I see them giving the WE a few easy units and giving the lions share to Moulder.

davedave1124#4773

Boreal said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

they already said there will WE rework Dlc and Flc units as well as dlc and flc LL . and lot more in blog post, expecting lion share for skaven is delusional warp stone induced dream

Not really. The WEs simply have few unique units, while Skaven have 3 DLCs worth of content remaining.

CA needs to convince people that this lord pack for a dlc race is worth it.
They have already said as much, that won't happen if they get the short end of the stick.

The fact remains that the WE have less units than the Skaven. Even if the WE have less units, doesn’t mean the mechanics and Lords won’t make it enjoyable. This idea of throwing units for the sake of it isn’t useful.

If the Skaven have more units but the WE are fun to play.. who cares? It’ll sell well and that’s a win.

UberReptilian#8431

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

Boreal said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

they already said there will WE rework Dlc and Flc units as well as dlc and flc LL . and lot more in blog post, expecting lion share for skaven is delusional warp stone induced dream

Not really. The WEs simply have few unique units, while Skaven have 3 DLCs worth of content remaining.

CA needs to convince people that this lord pack for a dlc race is worth it.
They have already said as much, that won't happen if they get the short end of the stick.

I just don't see the WE having the content left for a good LP half. CA can sell that message with the WE rework. They don't need to do it with the LP units. They can't.

I see them giving the WE a few easy units and giving the lions share to Moulder.

Sisters of Twilight will make a Wood Elf DLC worth it. Same with Spellweavers and Shadowdancers. Hopefully Ariel as the FLC Lord and the rework justify the DLC price, as compare the Dwarf rework who got no DLC vs Greenskins who did.

saweendra#3399

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

they already said there will WE rework Dlc and Flc units as well as dlc and flc LL . and lot more in blog post, expecting lion share for skaven is delusional warp stone induced dream

Not really. The WEs simply have few unique units, while Skaven have 3 DLCs worth of content remaining.

Eh nope wrong again ones this dlc drops than every single potential skaven unit might be nothing more than just remodels. Stuff modder could do. I highly doubt you will see another skaven pack for very very long time.

davedave1124#4773

kasunrathnatunga said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

they already said there will WE rework Dlc and Flc units as well as dlc and flc LL . and lot more in blog post, expecting lion share for skaven is delusional warp stone induced dream

Not really. The WEs simply have few unique units, while Skaven have 3 DLCs worth of content remaining.

Eh nope wrong again ones this dlc drops than every single potential skaven unit might be nothing more than just remodels. Stuff modder could do. I highly doubt you will see another skaven pack for very very long time.

Based on what? What I’ve said is based on what units are available for Skaven. What’s your theory based on?

saweendra#3399

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

they already said there will WE rework Dlc and Flc units as well as dlc and flc LL . and lot more in blog post, expecting lion share for skaven is delusional warp stone induced dream

Not really. The WEs simply have few unique units, while Skaven have 3 DLCs worth of content remaining.

Eh nope wrong again ones this dlc drops than every single potential skaven unit might be nothing more than just remodels. Stuff modder could do. I highly doubt you will see another skaven pack for very very long time.

Based on what? What I’ve said is based on what units are available for Skaven. What’s your theory based on?

On the same models, every one sharing. Just look at them and than look at all similar units in game or all the similar units that will come with other races.

Oh and there is chimra rat mod.

davedave1124#4773

kasunrathnatunga said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

they already said there will WE rework Dlc and Flc units as well as dlc and flc LL . and lot more in blog post, expecting lion share for skaven is delusional warp stone induced dream

Not really. The WEs simply have few unique units, while Skaven have 3 DLCs worth of content remaining.

Eh nope wrong again ones this dlc drops than every single potential skaven unit might be nothing more than just remodels. Stuff modder could do. I highly doubt you will see another skaven pack for very very long time.

Based on what? What I’ve said is based on what units are available for Skaven. What’s your theory based on?

On the same models, every one sharing. Just look at them and than look at all similar units in game or all the similar units that will come with other races.

Oh and there is chimra rat mod.

Can someone translate? It could be a genius response for all I know.

UberReptilian#8431

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

they already said there will WE rework Dlc and Flc units as well as dlc and flc LL . and lot more in blog post, expecting lion share for skaven is delusional warp stone induced dream

Not really. The WEs simply have few unique units, while Skaven have 3 DLCs worth of content remaining.

Eh nope wrong again ones this dlc drops than every single potential skaven unit might be nothing more than just remodels. Stuff modder could do. I highly doubt you will see another skaven pack for very very long time.

Based on what? What I’ve said is based on what units are available for Skaven. What’s your theory based on?

On the same models, every one sharing. Just look at them and than look at all similar units in game or all the similar units that will come with other races.

Oh and there is chimra rat mod.

Can someone translate? It could be a genius response for all I know.

He's saying what's left for Skaven would be remodels based on previous Skaven units. Like the Verminlord would be a remodel of...IDK

saweendra#3399

UberReptilian said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

they already said there will WE rework Dlc and Flc units as well as dlc and flc LL . and lot more in blog post, expecting lion share for skaven is delusional warp stone induced dream

Not really. The WEs simply have few unique units, while Skaven have 3 DLCs worth of content remaining.

Eh nope wrong again ones this dlc drops than every single potential skaven unit might be nothing more than just remodels. Stuff modder could do. I highly doubt you will see another skaven pack for very very long time.

Based on what? What I’ve said is based on what units are available for Skaven. What’s your theory based on?

On the same models, every one sharing. Just look at them and than look at all similar units in game or all the similar units that will come with other races.

Oh and there is chimra rat mod.

Can someone translate? It could be a genius response for all I know.

He's saying what's left for Skaven would be remodels based on previous Skaven units. Like the Verminlord would be a remodel of...IDK

If you consider the non two tail one than its basically with current units will look like warekin with a weapon and a remodeled head. And retexture body

I am almost ceratin a daemon unit will have the skeleton for verminlord though.

davedave1124#4773

UberReptilian said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

they already said there will WE rework Dlc and Flc units as well as dlc and flc LL . and lot more in blog post, expecting lion share for skaven is delusional warp stone induced dream

Not really. The WEs simply have few unique units, while Skaven have 3 DLCs worth of content remaining.

Eh nope wrong again ones this dlc drops than every single potential skaven unit might be nothing more than just remodels. Stuff modder could do. I highly doubt you will see another skaven pack for very very long time.

Based on what? What I’ve said is based on what units are available for Skaven. What’s your theory based on?

On the same models, every one sharing. Just look at them and than look at all similar units in game or all the similar units that will come with other races.

Oh and there is chimra rat mod.

Can someone translate? It could be a genius response for all I know.

He's saying what's left for Skaven would be remodels based on previous Skaven units. Like the Verminlord would be a remodel of...IDK

Wolf Rat, Giant Rat, Borrowing behemoth, Chimera Rat (the fact it’s a mod is irrelevant), Rat Tank, Giant WLC, Stormfiends, Warp Dragon, The largest selection of RoR models etc.

Now, before anyone argues.. but those are supplements or 6th edition.. true.. but imagine where we will need to go to get new WE units.

UberReptilian#8431

kasunrathnatunga said:

UberReptilian said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

they already said there will WE rework Dlc and Flc units as well as dlc and flc LL . and lot more in blog post, expecting lion share for skaven is delusional warp stone induced dream

Not really. The WEs simply have few unique units, while Skaven have 3 DLCs worth of content remaining.

Eh nope wrong again ones this dlc drops than every single potential skaven unit might be nothing more than just remodels. Stuff modder could do. I highly doubt you will see another skaven pack for very very long time.

Based on what? What I’ve said is based on what units are available for Skaven. What’s your theory based on?

On the same models, every one sharing. Just look at them and than look at all similar units in game or all the similar units that will come with other races.

Oh and there is chimra rat mod.

Can someone translate? It could be a genius response for all I know.

He's saying what's left for Skaven would be remodels based on previous Skaven units. Like the Verminlord would be a remodel of...IDK

If you consider the non two tail one than its basically with current units will look like warekin with a weapon and a remodeled head. And retexture body

I am almost ceratin a daemon unit will have the skeleton for verminlord though.

It was a joke, but I don't see the problem with remodels anyway. Treekin, Chaos Spawn and Animated Hulks are the same model, but repurposed. What's the issue?

UberReptilian#8431

davedave1124 said:

UberReptilian said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

they already said there will WE rework Dlc and Flc units as well as dlc and flc LL . and lot more in blog post, expecting lion share for skaven is delusional warp stone induced dream

Not really. The WEs simply have few unique units, while Skaven have 3 DLCs worth of content remaining.

Eh nope wrong again ones this dlc drops than every single potential skaven unit might be nothing more than just remodels. Stuff modder could do. I highly doubt you will see another skaven pack for very very long time.

Based on what? What I’ve said is based on what units are available for Skaven. What’s your theory based on?

On the same models, every one sharing. Just look at them and than look at all similar units in game or all the similar units that will come with other races.

Oh and there is chimra rat mod.

Can someone translate? It could be a genius response for all I know.

He's saying what's left for Skaven would be remodels based on previous Skaven units. Like the Verminlord would be a remodel of...IDK

Wolf Rat, Giant Rat, Borrowing behemoth, Chimera Rat (the fact it’s a mod is irrelevant), Rat Tank, Giant WLC, Stormfiends, Warp Dragon, The largest selection of RoR models etc.

Now, before anyone argues.. but those are supplements or 6th edition.. true.. but imagine where we will need to go to get new WE units.

I mean, most of those would be remodels, but I don't see a problem with remodels. Also you forgot the Cauldron of 1000 poxes. That'd have to be a new model.

davedave1124#4773

UberReptilian said:

davedave1124 said:

UberReptilian said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

they already said there will WE rework Dlc and Flc units as well as dlc and flc LL . and lot more in blog post, expecting lion share for skaven is delusional warp stone induced dream

Not really. The WEs simply have few unique units, while Skaven have 3 DLCs worth of content remaining.

Eh nope wrong again ones this dlc drops than every single potential skaven unit might be nothing more than just remodels. Stuff modder could do. I highly doubt you will see another skaven pack for very very long time.

Based on what? What I’ve said is based on what units are available for Skaven. What’s your theory based on?

On the same models, every one sharing. Just look at them and than look at all similar units in game or all the similar units that will come with other races.

Oh and there is chimra rat mod.

Can someone translate? It could be a genius response for all I know.

He's saying what's left for Skaven would be remodels based on previous Skaven units. Like the Verminlord would be a remodel of...IDK

Wolf Rat, Giant Rat, Borrowing behemoth, Chimera Rat (the fact it’s a mod is irrelevant), Rat Tank, Giant WLC, Stormfiends, Warp Dragon, The largest selection of RoR models etc.

Now, before anyone argues.. but those are supplements or 6th edition.. true.. but imagine where we will need to go to get new WE units.

I mean, most of those would be remodels, but I don't see a problem with remodels. Also you forgot the Cauldron of 1000 poxes. That'd have to be a new model.

I’d say the majority of major DLC content would be based on remodels. I’d see an issue with a recolour or a reskin but.. I’m not sure what people expect for a cheap DLC

saweendra#3399

davedave1124 said:

UberReptilian said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

davedave1124 said:

kasunrathnatunga said:

they already said there will WE rework Dlc and Flc units as well as dlc and flc LL . and lot more in blog post, expecting lion share for skaven is delusional warp stone induced dream

Not really. The WEs simply have few unique units, while Skaven have 3 DLCs worth of content remaining.

Eh nope wrong again ones this dlc drops than every single potential skaven unit might be nothing more than just remodels. Stuff modder could do. I highly doubt you will see another skaven pack for very very long time.

Based on what? What I’ve said is based on what units are available for Skaven. What’s your theory based on?

On the same models, every one sharing. Just look at them and than look at all similar units in game or all the similar units that will come with other races.

Oh and there is chimra rat mod.

Can someone translate? It could be a genius response for all I know.

He's saying what's left for Skaven would be remodels based on previous Skaven units. Like the Verminlord would be a remodel of...IDK

Wolf Rat, Giant Rat, Borrowing behemoth, Chimera Rat (the fact it’s a mod is irrelevant), Rat Tank, Giant WLC, Stormfiends, Warp Dragon, The largest selection of RoR models etc.

Now, before anyone argues.. but those are supplements or 6th edition.. true.. but imagine where we will need to go to get new WE units.

Wolf rat , gaint rat, brood horror , and bhemoth all are rats ,they would still simply use a the same wire frame of a normal rat. With some of them getting unique animations.

Like brood horror and behemoth.

saweendra#3399

TBH thought cauldron of 100p pox to be mechanic not unit.
Yes that one would need a new wire frame.
And i think there is a animated normal rat wire frame already in game. Just like pump wagon assets were in game kind of.

saweendra#3399

And there is another important question at what point should ca stop. At what point will skaven roster will be way too bloated for its own good.

mightygloin#2446

Re-examine plagues and AI usage of plagues again as they are a bit on the weak side.

Weak how? Plagues can be hugely annoying with no counter play. Neutering your main army for many turns no matter what you do.