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Dogs of War Race Speculation

MisterSquidMisterSquid Florida, USARegistered Users Posts: 1,591
There have been a lot of threads regarding the Dogs of War/Southern Realms and their roster. I’ve always been fascinated by the Dogs of War, I love their Mediterranean aesthetic and I think another more “grounded” human faction (with some exotic flair) to compliment the likes of the Empire is exactly what the game and the setting needs. The mercenary element is something the game could greatly benefit from, and it’s provided by basically no other faction- the only one that comes close are the Ogres, but they seem to be more focused on the migrating and pillaging aspects of their lore.

So, before we get into the roster and mechanics of the faction, I’d just like to answer the question “What are the Southern Realms and how are they different from the Dogs of War?” Everyone’s answer may differ, but this is my understanding of the matter.

The Southern Realms are a loose collection of cultural and geopolitical entities centralized in the southern parts of the Old World, south of the Empire and the Grey Mountains.

First, there is Tilea, roughly analogous to Renaissance Italy in the real world.
Then there is Estalia, comparable to the Spanish Empire in terms of culture.
Finally, we have the Border Princes, a clear counterpart to the Balkans of Europe.

Each one has their own culture and borders, but there are very apparent similarities to each other in all three. For starters, unlike the Empire and Bretonnia, all of them have very little in the way of central government (or none at all in the case of the Border Princes) and are instead composed of various city-states governed by merchant princes, small noble houses, and despots. They are most often selfish and greedy, warring with their many neighbors to settle feuds and fill their coffers. As there is no powerful central government ruling the lands, these rulers must resort to hiring large regiments of mercenaries to wage their wars, defend their borders, and venture into exotic lands to plunder and steal.

The Dogs of War are the official designation for the mercenaries of the Warhammer world. Due to the sheer demand for mercenary armies coming from the Southern Realms, the vast majority of these soldiers of fortune hail from Tilea, Estalia, and the Border Princes, though some among their number hail from abroad. The Southern Realms are the hotspot for any individual lusting for adventure, glory, and gold, and the Dogs of War are more than happy to act as the military backbone for their wealthy employers.

In short, the Southern Realms are the political entities, and the Dogs of War are the muscle backing them up. While each one is a separate nation, they all draw on the same pool of mercenaries for the purpose of warfare. A Tilean soldier would have no qualms working for a Border Prince, nor would a mercenary hailing from the Border Princes have much objection to working for an Estalian. Therefore, they would all share the same units and recruitment buildings. The overall faction, however, will be called “Dogs of War” because it sounds cooler and it has broader applications. I designed the faction around the idea they'd be a Campaign Pack for Game 2, but it looks more and more likely they'll be a part of Game 3 if anything.

Campaign and Battle Mechanics

The Hub and the Horde

I’ve debated for a long time as to whether or not the Dogs of War should be a Horde faction or a traditional faction, but the The Hunter and the Beast has answered that question for me: “Why Not Both?” As such, the Dogs will have conquest mechanics very similar to those Nakai the Wanderer and his faction, Spirit of the Jungle.

When you start a campaign as a Dogs of War faction, you will only have access to one settlement: your capital, the settlement your start out with. This settlement is controlled by YOU, not by a vassal faction, not by an ally, just you. This is your “hub”, the center of all your mercenary recruitment, and a safe-haven to fall back and regroup at. Late-game research options might give you the option to settle at 1-2 more settlements, but for the most part, Dogs of War factions are limited to one permanent station. Thankfully your lords can enter encampment stance at any movement percentage.

The good news is that, also like Nakai, your Legendary Lord also has horde recruitment, and can construct buildings for mobile recruitment. Subsequently recruited lords can also construct buildings, but not for unit recruitment. These buildings will provide benefits such as increasing horde growth or reducing global unit recruitment time. This latter is important as these lords will need to recruit units from wither your Legendary Lord or capital settlement by way of global recruitment.

Fortune and Glory

As a merchant prince of the Southern Realms, your number one objective is the accumulation of wealth, and you know that one of the easiest ways to accomplish that is by hiring out your mercenary companies to other factions. Frequently, you’ll get offers from other factions, requesting your services with promise of a handsome reward as long as you can fulfill the conditions. Usually, these are simple missions: protect a city for a certain amount of turns, destroy a city in a certain amount of turns, defeat an army, kill a lord in battle, etc. The difficulty of these tasks scales with your power and place in the game, and eventually you’ll be asked to accomplish more incredible feats, such as the eradication of entire factions.

Much like the Vampire Coast’s Infamy mechanic, you yourself will have the Glory resource. As you complete missions successfully, your Glory will increase as your reputation as a ruthless and reliable mercenary company increases. Higher Glory will have stronger factions hiring your services, but likewise other Dogs of War factions will want to take out the competition as your fame increases. Glory can be spent on special technologies, and can also be used to influence other factions much like the High Elves’ Intrigue at Court mechanic.

The Paymaster

Every Dogs of War army comes with an essential hero who does not even occupy an army slot. This hero is the Paymaster, a fat man driving a cart carrying a large chest of gold. Your mercenaries fight with the promise of payment from this chest, and they’ll fight harder when they its golden glimmer close to them. However, should the Paymaster’s cart be destroyed, the chest can be picked up and carried by either one of your units, or one of the enemy’s. If the enemy seizes the pay chest, your mercenaries will be discouraged and debuffed, and if it is not recovered before the end of the battle, you’ll lose some money on the campaign map. Keep the Paymaster safe at all costs!

Always Hiring

Though the core Dogs of War roster is made up of mercenaries from in and around the Southern Realms, your armies will have the opportunity to recruit limited amounts of units from other factions as you travel the globe. I imagine this will work rather like the Recruit Dead system, where you’ll be able to see a handful of recruitable units while stationed in the respective factions’ territory. A list of available units will be provided below.

Legendary Lords

Borgio the Besieger – Tilea

The de-facto Merchant Prince, Borgio is the face of the Dogs of War and naturally starts in the heart of the Southern Realms- in beautiful Miragliano, which puts him face to face with the threat of Skavenblight from the very beginning. However, from the great port city of the southern Old World, he’ll have ample opportunity to venture in any direction, in any part of the globe.

Borgio is a melee powerhouse with the Siege Attacker trait and is capable of mounting an Armored Warhorse.

Lucrezzia Belladonna – New World Colonies

The most beautiful woman in the Old World has been struck by tragedy yet again as her eighth husband, the acting governor of Estalia’s New World Colonies, recently died from “mysterious circumstances”, leaving her “reluctantly” in control of the powerful mercenary regiments of Port Reaver. Who knows what she’ll do now? Well, the many temple-cities of the Lustrian Lizardmen are filled to the brim with valuable gold, ripe for the taking…

Lucrezzia Belladonna is a caster lord of the Lore of Death with several poison-themed ability, a global bonus to her assassination chances, and is capable of riding both a warhorse and a deadly Warpfire Dragon.

Lorenzo Lupo – Conquerers of Albion

Lorenzo Lupo, merchant prince of Luccini, is determined to reform the ancient empire of Imperial Tilea, and has started by making landfall on the island of Albion, a land once conquered by his forefathers. He’ll have a mechanic that allows him to take and hold more land, so he’ll play more like a conventional faction.

Lorenzo is a duelist lord determined to fight at the frontlines with his troops, on foot.

Lietpold the Black – Western Border Princes

This vain, arrogant, greedy merchant prince encapsulates the spirit of the lawless and petty Border Princes by lording over the settlement of Akendorf with an iron fist. Lietpold the Black has no friends and many foes, but his greed for gold is unmatched.

Lietpold is a support lord who prefers to lead from behind the frontlines, but is capable of mounting an Armored Warhorse or captaining a powerful Landship from Marienburg.

Roster

Lords
Company Master – A renowned commander of mercenary legions, capable of both leading his men in battle and fighting in melee combat. Can ride into battle on an Arrmored Warhorse or atop a Warpfire Dragon.

Heroes
Paymaster – Essential, see above.
Mercenary Captain – Mercenary soldiers of elite rank, skilled in the use of sword and pistol and second only to Company Masters. Can mount Armored Warhorses.
Hireling Wizard – An unlicensed wizard who have learned magic from many reliable and unrealiable sources. Cheaper, but more unstable and liable to miscast than other factions’ spellcasters. Can come with the Lores of Fire, Light, Heavens, Shadow, Metal, Life, Death, and Beasts. Can mount Warhorses.
Diestro – A duelist who has mastered his craft, capable of moving unseen and skewering any enemy commander with his rapier. Assassin unit.
Priestess of Myrmidia – A learned follower of the Cult of Myrmidia, a popular religious group in the Southern Realms. Her devotion to the strategy goddess gives her the strength to buff troops around her with her various abilities.

Melee Infantry
Pikemen – The bread and butter of any mercenary army, these well-equipped soldiers wield heavy spears and can stop enemy cavalry in their tracks as well as go toe-to-toe with sword infantry.
Duelists – Lightly armored dual-wielding swordsmen, dressed in all black and functioning as glass cannons that can destroy light infantry but can’t take much heat.
Myrmidian Templars – Armored warrior women who function as nigh-unbreakable sword infantry, devoted to the goddess Myrmidia.
Paymaster’s Bodyguard – These heavily-armored pikemen can fight well under any circumstances, but their special “Bodyguard” trait makes them extra effective when near Paymasters of the army general.

Ranged Infantry
Crossbowmen – Tilean soldiers wielding crossbows. Basically the same as the Empire unit.
Pavise Crossbowmen – Armored Crossbowmen carrying large shields, who are capable of deploying the shields while firing to give themselves extra armor from the front.
Duelists (Throwing Knives) – The same Duelists as before, but this time carrying throwing knives, making them short-ranged but deadly skirmishing infantry.
Halfling Burglars – Halflings from the Moot are known to sell their services just about anywhere, and can be recruited as stealthy ranged units wielding shortbows.

Cavalry
Broken Lances – Old men from the Southern Realms with rusted armor and ragged horses, still determined to fight for fortune and glory. Shock cavalry with Don Quixote motifs.
Knights Encarmine – Haughty nobles in bright red armor from the noble houses of Tilea. Elite cavalry wielding swords.

Ranged Cavalry
Conquistadors – Crossbowmen on horseback, experienced with both shooting and riding.
Birdmen of Catrazza – Not technically cavalry, but rather soldiers with crossbows wearing flying machines designed long ago by Leonardo de Miragliano in the style of bird wings. Function similarly to Deck Droppers.

Monsters and Beasts
Ogre Maneaters – Shared between the Ogre Kingdoms roster and this one, Ogre Maneaters are monstrous infantry who have travelled all around the world to learn various fighting styles.
Giant of Albion – A giant from the lost land of Albion, fighting with promise of food and drink from his mercenary employers.
Warpfire Dragon – A dragon mutated by Warpstone, found in the Southern Realms near Skavenblight and capable of breathing caustic acid. Though dark and terrifying creatures, the most accomplished merchant princes have been able to have them tamed for a high price.

Artillery and War Machines
Horse-drawn Cannons – Light cannons drawn by draft horses. Not the strongest, but quick to move around in a hurry.
Halfling Hot-Pot – A contraption manned by a Halfling chef designed to launch scalding, sticky soup into the enemy ranks, causing severe burns on infantry.
Marienburg Landship – Though technically not made in the Southern Realms, the merchants of Marienburg are of similar minds to the lords of the Southern Realms, and more than willing to sell them these massive machines. Bigger than the Empire Steam Tanks, but less protected, and the lack of a swiveling turret makes their arc of fire limited.

The following units can be hired in small numbers when in the territory of other factions:

The Empire
Free Company Militia
Pistoliers
Empire Huntsmen
Knights of the Blazing Sun

Dwarfs
Dwarf Warriors
Dwarf Warriors (Great Weapons)
Slayers
Organ Guns

Greenskins
Nasty Skulkers
Goblin Wolf Riders
Goblin Wolf Rider Archers

Vampire Counts
Crypt Ghouls
Blood Knights

Wood Elves
Glade Riders
Wildwood Rangers
Waywatchers

Bretonnia
Battle Pilgrims
Questing Knights
Pegasus Knights

Norsca
Marauders
Marauder Hunters
Marauder Berserkers

High Elves
Lothern Sea Guard
Lothern Sea Guard (Shields)
Dragon Princes of Caledor

Dark Elves
Shades
Shades (Great Weapons)
Shades (Dual Weapons)
Sisters of Slaughter

Lizardmen – (They fight not for pay, but in the hopes the company will lead them to lost Lizardmen artifacts)
Skink Cohort
Skink Cohort (Javelins)
Red Crested Skinks
Skink Cold One Riders (New light cavalry, reference to Tichi-Huichi’s Raiders)

Tomb Kings – (Basically the same reasons as the Lizardmen)
Tomb Guard
Tomb Guard (Halberds)
Skeleton Chariots

Vampire Coast
Sartosa Free Company

Ogre Kingdoms
Ogres
Ironguts
Leadbelchers
Mournfang Riders
Stonehorns
(Maneaters are part of the core Dogs of War roster and can be recruited everywhere, not just Ogre territory)

Chaos Dwarfs
Only some of the Hobgoblin units

Beastmen and Warriors of Chaos units cannot be recruited due to their inability to take and hold territory. Daemons, I assume, will be the same. Skaven units cannot be recruited due to the disdain all races hold for them.

I look forward to any ensuing discussion, or any suggestions or feedback you may have.
Remember: there's no reason to get angry on the forums. Be polite and respectful towards other people's opinions, even if you disagree.

Let it be known that I was foolish enough to doubt UberReptilian, who, in her infinite wisdom, predicted that the Ogre Kingdoms would be the preorder bonus before even the Ogre Mercenary FLC for Warhammer II. This signature will stand as a monument to my shame. Woe upon me!
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Comments

  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 15,385
    i think it dogs of war should be converted in to southern realms race.

    with estalia , border princess, Tiliea and new world colonies sharing nearly all of the units and having some unique faction only units for each of them. and then allowing them a mechanic where they could share the unit.


    for example a knight of marmidia could be estalin unit readily available for esatlian faction. and if lets say you start as tiliea then you either need to have alliance with estilia or control a settlement to get access to their units.

    of course CA would have to work with GW to make some unique stuff for estalia, border princess and new world colonies.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • HedonistHoundHedonistHound Registered Users Posts: 7,382
    Shouldn't the Dogs of War include the actual Regiments of Renown not just random generic units from other factions?
  • RockNRolla92RockNRolla92 Registered Users Posts: 2,109
    The warpfire dragon seems kinda out of placer. Is there actually any lore to back up them using one ?
  • BonutzBonutz Registered Users Posts: 4,804
    First of all, nice post. It’s clear you put a lot of work into it so I want to give credit where credit is due. I’m a huge Dogs of War fan and I’m really hoping that they make it into the game someday.

    You have a lot of nice ideas here. However, I don’t think that the Southern Realms should be able to recruit a ton of units from other races. Rather they should only be able to recruit a unique ROR or maybe two from each race if they occupy their lands or are just marching through.

    For example, you should only be able to recruit one unit of Tichi Huichi’s Skink Riders if you’re in Lustria. But you shouldn’t be able to recruit any units of any variation from the Lizardmen army. This way it still gives you a taste of recruiting units from other races but doesn’t go overboard.

    Roster bloat isn’t always a good thing and I want the Southern Realms to feel like a unique faction of their own rather than just a mix and match of units from other races.
    I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I’m all out of bubblegum.
  • thebiglezthebiglez Registered Users Posts: 688
    if you look at the period of pike and shoot, it revolves much about the composition of 3 different unit types in a unit.
    - swordsmen
    - pikemen
    - riflemen

    i would really love to see that incorporated. so you can have a composition of for example
    10% swordsmen
    60% pikemen
    30% riflemen

    or you can choose to have mostly riflemen, futher into campaign when you reserch better guns, just like it actually happend irl
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,532
    For the love of Caledor, where is Asarnil?!
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 11,013

    For the love of Caledor, where is Asarnil?!

    Hopefully not anywhere near the Southern Realms.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,246
    edited August 2020
    I would like to see a properly develooed southern realms faction more than dogs of war. The dogs of war was more reservoir for curious ideas of GW than a real or coherent army.

    Thats why I dislike to see them as a main faction. A properly implemented mercenary mechanic would do their special units more justice.

    E.g. if you want to recruit Halfling mercenaries or auxillaries you have to hold the moot.

    The southern realms element have overall the most coherence within the dogs of war army list and thus in my opinion the largest potential to become a full fledged race.
    Not to mention the many real life renissance inspirations for this.

    E.g. leonardo da vinci did design wooden helicopters, 360 degree tanks, chariots with rotating scythes in front, mechanical lions, puppet soldiers that were able to move to give the impression of a much larger garrison etc.

    Of course most of his ideas did not work in real, were just theoretcal excersizes, or were never realized, but they would fit the warhammer setting well in my opinion.

    Also other elements of the pike snd shot warfare era are very interesting to see. Tercio formations and acrebusses instead of basic handguns. Or the ability to chanfe between cannonballs and scrapshots for cannons.

    In the end I would like to see estalia and tilea as a basic human army but with a larger focus on war machines and "modern" technology instead of magic or magic beasts.
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • LordCommanderLordCommander Registered Users Posts: 2,656
    sykall said:



    E.g. leonardo da vinci did design wooden helicopters, 360 degree tanks, chariots with rotating scythes in front, mechanical lions, puppet soldiers that were able to move to give the impression of a much larger garrison etc.

    Of course most of his ideas did not work in real, were just theoretcal excersizes, or were never realized, but they would fit the warhammer setting well in my opinion.

    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Leonardo_da_Miragliano

    Just as a warning against making predictions- https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/290416/time-to-admit-there-will-be-no-new-dlc-for-twwh-2#latest

    Stung by people disagreeing with you? Try calling them shills and whiteknights, it's way easier than debating.
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,246

    sykall said:



    E.g. leonardo da vinci did design wooden helicopters, 360 degree tanks, chariots with rotating scythes in front, mechanical lions, puppet soldiers that were able to move to give the impression of a much larger garrison etc.

    Of course most of his ideas did not work in real, were just theoretcal excersizes, or were never realized, but they would fit the warhammer setting well in my opinion.

    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Leonardo_da_Miragliano

    Yeah leonardo de miragliano the fantasy counterpart. But thus far GW never used this template to its fullest potential. LdM is credited for steam tanks, the nuln college and little else.
    His historic counterpart went much crazier than him.
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,532
    RikRiorik said:

    For the love of Caledor, where is Asarnil?!

    Hopefully not anywhere near the Southern Realms.
    How are those lesser races supposed to win anything without their better leading them?
  • SaurianDruidSaurianDruid Registered Users Posts: 1,594
    Nice ideas, though it might not work well in game 3's map since it probably won't include the Southern Realms themselves. This is part of why I think horde would work best. Though they could have forward camps to be based out of there or something.

    I really hope we get Dogs of War in some form though. To make Southern Realms their own faction you'd pretty much need to cannibalize the Dogs of War faction to do it, and that strikes me as a bit unfair to those who want the Dogs of War.

    Meanwhile a Dogs of War faction has a lot of potential to be unique. And once Dogs of War are in the Southern Realms AI can be made to use Dogs of War units in their armies and garrisons rather than Empire troops, solving that problem.
  • MisterSquidMisterSquid Florida, USARegistered Users Posts: 1,591

    Shouldn't the Dogs of War include the actual Regiments of Renown not just random generic units from other factions?

    Regiments of Renown were something that I forgot to cover, but I didn't many specific ideas for them. They'd just work like the RoRs for other factions, i.e. Voland's Venators for Broken Lances, Marksmen of Miragliano for Crossbowmen, etc. I tried to reference RoRs from other factions with the "foreign legions", such as Skink Cold One Riders, but ultimately I didn't want to bog them down too much. I suppose some of them could be included as some kind of special campaign mechanic, such as special rewards for certain contracts, but a lot of them are old, lore-breaking, or already used for other factions.

    The warpfire dragon seems kinda out of placer. Is there actually any lore to back up them using one ?

    I seem to remember an excerpt from the Monstrous Arcanum recalling a Tilean Merchant Prince utilizing one in battle. I myself was hesitant to include it for the very reason you specified, but it seemed fitting in relation to Lucrezzia so I threw it in. However, I can't find the excerpt I mentioned so it's possible I could be mistaken.
    Bonutz619 said:

    First of all, nice post. It’s clear you put a lot of work into it so I want to give credit where credit is due. I’m a huge Dogs of War fan and I’m really hoping that they make it into the game someday.

    You have a lot of nice ideas here. However, I don’t think that the Southern Realms should be able to recruit a ton of units from other races. Rather they should only be able to recruit a unique ROR or maybe two from each race if they occupy their lands or are just marching through.

    For example, you should only be able to recruit one unit of Tichi Huichi’s Skink Riders if you’re in Lustria. But you shouldn’t be able to recruit any units of any variation from the Lizardmen army. This way it still gives you a taste of recruiting units from other races but doesn’t go overboard.

    Roster bloat isn’t always a good thing and I want the Southern Realms to feel like a unique faction of their own rather than just a mix and match of units from other races.

    I agree, and this is exactly the reason I decided to limit recruitment of other race's units to the campaign map. I know many want to play with a hodge-podge of different units in a single army, but I and many others would prefer that the Southern Realms retained their unique identity, so I tried to implement a compromise.

    For the love of Caledor, where is Asarnil?!

    I considered making Star Dragons recruitable from High Elves to represent Asarnil but it seemed superfluous with the Warpfire Dragon.

    Nice ideas, though it might not work well in game 3's map since it probably won't include the Southern Realms themselves. This is part of why I think horde would work best. Though they could have forward camps to be based out of there or something.

    I really hope we get Dogs of War in some form though. To make Southern Realms their own faction you'd pretty much need to cannibalize the Dogs of War faction to do it, and that strikes me as a bit unfair to those who want the Dogs of War.

    Meanwhile a Dogs of War faction has a lot of potential to be unique. And once Dogs of War are in the Southern Realms AI can be made to use Dogs of War units in their armies and garrisons rather than Empire troops, solving that problem.

    I think it'd be possible to place SouthernRealms/Dogs of War in the Darklands, settlement like Pigbarter are good for this. However, I do agree that a pure horde faction may be unavoidable.
    Remember: there's no reason to get angry on the forums. Be polite and respectful towards other people's opinions, even if you disagree.

    Let it be known that I was foolish enough to doubt UberReptilian, who, in her infinite wisdom, predicted that the Ogre Kingdoms would be the preorder bonus before even the Ogre Mercenary FLC for Warhammer II. This signature will stand as a monument to my shame. Woe upon me!
  • bolero567bolero567 Registered Users Posts: 95
    edited August 2020



    I really hope we get Dogs of War in some form though. To make Southern Realms their own faction you'd pretty much need to cannibalize the Dogs of War faction to do it, and that strikes me as a bit unfair to those who want the Dogs of War..

    I think that a single Dogs of War faction is most likely for this reason but I hope CA are more ambitious. There's like 30 years of novels and lore on the minor factions of the Warhammer world, enough for a couple of units apiece even if the material can't be stretched to a full faction. Taking the Dogs of War armybook + lore + forgeworld units + some well chosen CA original content there's plenty of units and lords to justify 2 campaign packs; or a core faction and campaign pack. Something like:

    SOUTHERN REALMS
    Lucrezzia / Lorenzo / Lietpold / Golden Magus / Great Sultan (or OC Arabyan character)

    Tilea / Estalia / Border Princes / Araby / Amazons / Ind / Southlands humans

    (The human inhabitants of the Southlands proper have concept art and some lore, enough for a few units)

    DOGS OF WAR
    Van der Kraal / Brunner / Long Drong / Asarnil / OC Nippon character

    Marienberg / Empire mercs / Albion / Nippon / Dwarfs / Elves / Hobgoblins

    Both factions would have their own variants of Ogre Maneaters, of course.

    Whatever way you divide the content up it's going to end up pretty arbitrary, so I just split the roster by location: the "South" of the Warhammer world, and the "North". I figure both factions unit roster will be available through geographic recruitment to many other playable races (hopefully with a substantial FLC component) so in practice you'll be able to mix and match units as you please if you own both DLC.
  • KrunchKrunch Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,064
    The Southern Realms in theory have an interesting roster, but they really need their RoR's to really make them pop. Braganzas Besiegers in their golden armor, Richter Krugers cursed company, Republican guard, the lost legion, etc. etc. They need these things to go from a fun little faction to something truly great.
  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 4,332
    bolero567 said:



    I really hope we get Dogs of War in some form though. To make Southern Realms their own faction you'd pretty much need to cannibalize the Dogs of War faction to do it, and that strikes me as a bit unfair to those who want the Dogs of War..

    I think that a single Dogs of War faction is most likely for this reason but I hope CA are more ambitious. There's like 30 years of novels and lore on the minor factions of the Warhammer world, enough for a couple of units apiece even if the material can't be stretched to a full faction. Taking the Dogs of War armybook + lore + forgeworld units + some well chosen CA original content there's plenty of units and lords to justify 2 campaign packs; or a core faction and campaign pack. Something like:

    SOUTHERN REALMS
    Lucrezzia / Lorenzo / Lietpold / Golden Magus / Great Sultan (or OC Arabyan character)

    Tilea / Estalia / Border Princes / Araby / Amazons / Ind / Southlands humans

    (The human inhabitants of the Southlands proper have concept art and some lore, enough for a few units)

    DOGS OF WAR
    Van der Kraal / Brunner / Long Drong / Asarnil / OC Nippon character

    Marienberg / Empire mercs / Albion / Nippon / Dwarfs / Elves / Hobgoblins

    Both factions would have their own variants of Ogre Maneaters, of course.

    Whatever way you divide the content up it's going to end up pretty arbitrary, so I just split the roster by location: the "South" of the Warhammer world, and the "North". I figure both factions unit roster will be available through geographic recruitment to many other playable races (hopefully with a substantial FLC component) so in practice you'll be able to mix and match units as you please if you own both DLC.
    You missed borgio the besieger the main and most important DoW lord
  • bolero567bolero567 Registered Users Posts: 95
    Boreal said:


    You missed borgio the besieger the main and most important DoW lord

    I was sort of thinking that Borgio the Besieger could come as FLC after. Like Vlad von Carstein, as an important lore character who'd make a hype FLC. Just really wanted Lorenzo in at launch given this is a total war game and he's twcenter.net in human form. There should really be an Estalian character too. Even assuming 5 LL each it's tricky to get everybody in - Dogs of War just have a lot of interesting characters.
  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 4,332
    bolero567 said:

    Boreal said:


    You missed borgio the besieger the main and most important DoW lord

    I was sort of thinking that Borgio the Besieger could come as FLC after. Like Vlad von Carstein, as an important lore character who'd make a hype FLC. Just really wanted Lorenzo in at launch given this is a total war game and he's twcenter.net in human form. There should really be an Estalian character too. Even assuming 5 LL each it's tricky to get everybody in - Dogs of War just have a lot of interesting characters.
    Given that dlcs don't really get flc lords that's unlikely
  • BonutzBonutz Registered Users Posts: 4,804
    Boreal said:

    bolero567 said:

    Boreal said:


    You missed borgio the besieger the main and most important DoW lord

    I was sort of thinking that Borgio the Besieger could come as FLC after. Like Vlad von Carstein, as an important lore character who'd make a hype FLC. Just really wanted Lorenzo in at launch given this is a total war game and he's twcenter.net in human form. There should really be an Estalian character too. Even assuming 5 LL each it's tricky to get everybody in - Dogs of War just have a lot of interesting characters.
    Given that dlcs don't really get flc lords that's unlikely
    Beastmen got a FLC lord with Morghur the Shadowgave. True that it’s not a regular thing but CA have done it in the past.
    I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I’m all out of bubblegum.
  • bolero567bolero567 Registered Users Posts: 95
    Boreal said:


    Given that dlcs don't really get flc lords that's unlikely

    There's Morghur, although that's pretty much it.



    The Paymaster

    Every Dogs of War army comes with an essential hero who does not even occupy an army slot. This hero is the Paymaster, a fat man driving a cart carrying a large chest of gold. Your mercenaries fight with the promise of payment from this chest, and they’ll fight harder when they its golden glimmer close to them. However, should the Paymaster’s cart be destroyed, the chest can be picked up and carried by either one of your units, or one of the enemy’s. If the enemy seizes the pay chest, your mercenaries will be discouraged and debuffed, and if it is not recovered before the end of the battle, you’ll lose some money on the campaign map. Keep the Paymaster safe at all costs!

    Just want to say how much I love this idea.

  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 4,332
    Bonutz619 said:

    Boreal said:

    bolero567 said:

    Boreal said:


    You missed borgio the besieger the main and most important DoW lord

    I was sort of thinking that Borgio the Besieger could come as FLC after. Like Vlad von Carstein, as an important lore character who'd make a hype FLC. Just really wanted Lorenzo in at launch given this is a total war game and he's twcenter.net in human form. There should really be an Estalian character too. Even assuming 5 LL each it's tricky to get everybody in - Dogs of War just have a lot of interesting characters.
    Given that dlcs don't really get flc lords that's unlikely
    Beastmen got a FLC lord with Morghur the Shadowgave. True that it’s not a regular thing but CA have done it in the past.
    Sure but that's happened once, and odds don't look good for it happening again.
    Borgio needs to be included he's the main lord, it's like adding greenskins with no grimgor
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 13,551
    Boreal said:

    Bonutz619 said:

    Boreal said:

    bolero567 said:

    Boreal said:


    You missed borgio the besieger the main and most important DoW lord

    I was sort of thinking that Borgio the Besieger could come as FLC after. Like Vlad von Carstein, as an important lore character who'd make a hype FLC. Just really wanted Lorenzo in at launch given this is a total war game and he's twcenter.net in human form. There should really be an Estalian character too. Even assuming 5 LL each it's tricky to get everybody in - Dogs of War just have a lot of interesting characters.
    Given that dlcs don't really get flc lords that's unlikely
    Beastmen got a FLC lord with Morghur the Shadowgave. True that it’s not a regular thing but CA have done it in the past.
    Sure but that's happened once, and odds don't look good for it happening again.
    Borgio needs to be included he's the main lord, it's like adding greenskins with no grimgor
    Technically it's happening again this next DLC.

    Borgio first LL of Southern Realms, however, so I agree.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • _Mad_D0c__Mad_D0c_ Registered Users Posts: 1,502
    I would like to see DoW as occupier of parts of Ind. Not only as placeholder but to creat a new lore were they settled in partly overrunned Ind (razed and raided by Orcs, CD, Ogres and Chaos). So it was easy for occupying the trade settlements from former Ind by DoW venturer. While it looks like Araby is gobe and razed too.
    DoW could easily absorb the left overs from Araby (some units and 1 LL). This + Ruling parts of Ind can give them the ability to recruit War elephants as a standard high tier unit. Much needed for their race and a potential selling point.
  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 4,332
    Crossil said:

    Boreal said:

    Bonutz619 said:

    Boreal said:

    bolero567 said:

    Boreal said:


    You missed borgio the besieger the main and most important DoW lord

    I was sort of thinking that Borgio the Besieger could come as FLC after. Like Vlad von Carstein, as an important lore character who'd make a hype FLC. Just really wanted Lorenzo in at launch given this is a total war game and he's twcenter.net in human form. There should really be an Estalian character too. Even assuming 5 LL each it's tricky to get everybody in - Dogs of War just have a lot of interesting characters.
    Given that dlcs don't really get flc lords that's unlikely
    Beastmen got a FLC lord with Morghur the Shadowgave. True that it’s not a regular thing but CA have done it in the past.
    Sure but that's happened once, and odds don't look good for it happening again.
    Borgio needs to be included he's the main lord, it's like adding greenskins with no grimgor
    Technically it's happening again this next DLC.

    Borgio first LL of Southern Realms, however, so I agree.
    It's not though as you have to buy the new dlc to get the flc for the old dlc.
    So it's not really a flc lord
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 13,551
    Boreal said:

    Crossil said:

    Boreal said:

    Bonutz619 said:

    Boreal said:

    bolero567 said:

    Boreal said:


    You missed borgio the besieger the main and most important DoW lord

    I was sort of thinking that Borgio the Besieger could come as FLC after. Like Vlad von Carstein, as an important lore character who'd make a hype FLC. Just really wanted Lorenzo in at launch given this is a total war game and he's twcenter.net in human form. There should really be an Estalian character too. Even assuming 5 LL each it's tricky to get everybody in - Dogs of War just have a lot of interesting characters.
    Given that dlcs don't really get flc lords that's unlikely
    Beastmen got a FLC lord with Morghur the Shadowgave. True that it’s not a regular thing but CA have done it in the past.
    Sure but that's happened once, and odds don't look good for it happening again.
    Borgio needs to be included he's the main lord, it's like adding greenskins with no grimgor
    Technically it's happening again this next DLC.

    Borgio first LL of Southern Realms, however, so I agree.
    It's not though as you have to buy the new dlc to get the flc for the old dlc.
    No you don't.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • LordSolarMachLordSolarMach Registered Users Posts: 1,617
    _Mad_D0c_ said:

    DoW could easily absorb the left overs from Araby (some units and 1 LL).

    I'm a proponent of incorporating bits of Araby into the DoW. Besides the Elephants (from Warmaster), their generic light cavalry could be styled after the Desert Dogs. You could also probably pinch camel riders (with jezails), and maybe a couple of the wizards could be Arabyan (especially if you lift the Lore of Sand).

    As for the LL, Mydas the Mean would be a natural fit, even if he now dresses as a Tilean:



    (That's Mydas on the left, and his money lender - Sheikh Yadosh - to the right.)

  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 4,332
    Crossil said:

    Boreal said:

    Crossil said:

    Boreal said:

    Bonutz619 said:

    Boreal said:

    bolero567 said:

    Boreal said:


    You missed borgio the besieger the main and most important DoW lord

    I was sort of thinking that Borgio the Besieger could come as FLC after. Like Vlad von Carstein, as an important lore character who'd make a hype FLC. Just really wanted Lorenzo in at launch given this is a total war game and he's twcenter.net in human form. There should really be an Estalian character too. Even assuming 5 LL each it's tricky to get everybody in - Dogs of War just have a lot of interesting characters.
    Given that dlcs don't really get flc lords that's unlikely
    Beastmen got a FLC lord with Morghur the Shadowgave. True that it’s not a regular thing but CA have done it in the past.
    Sure but that's happened once, and odds don't look good for it happening again.
    Borgio needs to be included he's the main lord, it's like adding greenskins with no grimgor
    Technically it's happening again this next DLC.

    Borgio first LL of Southern Realms, however, so I agree.
    It's not though as you have to buy the new dlc to get the flc for the old dlc.
    No you don't.
    Yes you do.

    "WARHAMMER I, WARHAMMER II, Realm of the Wood Elves and this new DLC All the above plus additional new Wood Elf Legendary Lord, new units and characters for use in Mortal Empires."
    Notice how it says Realm of the Wood Elves and this new DLC.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 13,551
    edited August 2020
    Boreal said:

    Crossil said:

    Boreal said:

    Crossil said:

    Boreal said:

    Bonutz619 said:

    Boreal said:

    bolero567 said:

    Boreal said:


    You missed borgio the besieger the main and most important DoW lord

    I was sort of thinking that Borgio the Besieger could come as FLC after. Like Vlad von Carstein, as an important lore character who'd make a hype FLC. Just really wanted Lorenzo in at launch given this is a total war game and he's twcenter.net in human form. There should really be an Estalian character too. Even assuming 5 LL each it's tricky to get everybody in - Dogs of War just have a lot of interesting characters.
    Given that dlcs don't really get flc lords that's unlikely
    Beastmen got a FLC lord with Morghur the Shadowgave. True that it’s not a regular thing but CA have done it in the past.
    Sure but that's happened once, and odds don't look good for it happening again.
    Borgio needs to be included he's the main lord, it's like adding greenskins with no grimgor
    Technically it's happening again this next DLC.

    Borgio first LL of Southern Realms, however, so I agree.
    It's not though as you have to buy the new dlc to get the flc for the old dlc.
    No you don't.
    Yes you do.

    "WARHAMMER I, WARHAMMER II, Realm of the Wood Elves and this new DLC All the above plus additional new Wood Elf Legendary Lord, new units and characters for use in Mortal Empires."
    Notice how it says Realm of the Wood Elves and this new DLC.
    No, it doesn't:

    "For owners of TW: WARHAMMER, TW: WARHAMMER II and The Realm of the Wood Elves DLC Pack: If you’ve been with us since the beginning, we have a few additional surprises lined up that make this, already jam-packed DLC, even more interesting.

    If you’ve collected all that content you’ll also get a bonus legendary lord with all the trimmings! We can’t wait to introduce you to her. "

    Written above what you quoted, so what exactly are you smoking? Because, the lower bracket doesn't actually have a special division for simply owning the two games and old DLC without this new DLC, it's inaccurate. You get the new free LL without the new DLC.

    Otherwise, if we took it verbatim it also says: "WARHAMMER I, WARHAMMER II and this new DLC All the above, plus Old World Update for Wood Elves in the Mortal Empires Campaign." meaning that you would need the new DLC for the Old World update which is not the case. It has never been the case. The update is always free.

    Let me show you, in short, how inaccurate it is:



    The two sections are in clear contradiction, ****.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 4,332
    Crossil said:

    Boreal said:

    Crossil said:

    Boreal said:

    Crossil said:

    Boreal said:

    Bonutz619 said:

    Boreal said:

    bolero567 said:

    Boreal said:


    You missed borgio the besieger the main and most important DoW lord

    I was sort of thinking that Borgio the Besieger could come as FLC after. Like Vlad von Carstein, as an important lore character who'd make a hype FLC. Just really wanted Lorenzo in at launch given this is a total war game and he's twcenter.net in human form. There should really be an Estalian character too. Even assuming 5 LL each it's tricky to get everybody in - Dogs of War just have a lot of interesting characters.
    Given that dlcs don't really get flc lords that's unlikely
    Beastmen got a FLC lord with Morghur the Shadowgave. True that it’s not a regular thing but CA have done it in the past.
    Sure but that's happened once, and odds don't look good for it happening again.
    Borgio needs to be included he's the main lord, it's like adding greenskins with no grimgor
    Technically it's happening again this next DLC.

    Borgio first LL of Southern Realms, however, so I agree.
    It's not though as you have to buy the new dlc to get the flc for the old dlc.
    No you don't.
    Yes you do.

    "WARHAMMER I, WARHAMMER II, Realm of the Wood Elves and this new DLC All the above plus additional new Wood Elf Legendary Lord, new units and characters for use in Mortal Empires."
    Notice how it says Realm of the Wood Elves and this new DLC.
    No, it doesn't:

    "For owners of TW: WARHAMMER, TW: WARHAMMER II and The Realm of the Wood Elves DLC Pack: If you’ve been with us since the beginning, we have a few additional surprises lined up that make this, already jam-packed DLC, even more interesting.

    If you’ve collected all that content you’ll also get a bonus legendary lord with all the trimmings! We can’t wait to introduce you to her. "

    Written above what you quoted, so what exactly are you smoking? Because, the lower bracket doesn't actually have a special division for simply owning the two games and old DLC without this new DLC, it's inaccurate. You get the new free LL without the new DLC.

    Otherwise, if we took it verbatim it also says: "WARHAMMER I, WARHAMMER II and this new DLC All the above, plus Old World Update for Wood Elves in the Mortal Empires Campaign." meaning that you would need the new DLC for the Old World update which is not the case. It has never been the case. The update is always free.

    Let me show you, in short, how inaccurate it is:



    The two sections are in clear contradiction, ****.
    Except it clearly states that you need the current dlc.
    Sure in the bit above it doesn't mention it but in the breakdown it clarifys it.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 13,551
    edited August 2020
    Boreal said:

    Crossil said:

    Boreal said:

    Crossil said:

    Boreal said:

    Crossil said:

    Boreal said:

    Bonutz619 said:

    Boreal said:

    bolero567 said:

    Boreal said:


    You missed borgio the besieger the main and most important DoW lord

    I was sort of thinking that Borgio the Besieger could come as FLC after. Like Vlad von Carstein, as an important lore character who'd make a hype FLC. Just really wanted Lorenzo in at launch given this is a total war game and he's twcenter.net in human form. There should really be an Estalian character too. Even assuming 5 LL each it's tricky to get everybody in - Dogs of War just have a lot of interesting characters.
    Given that dlcs don't really get flc lords that's unlikely
    Beastmen got a FLC lord with Morghur the Shadowgave. True that it’s not a regular thing but CA have done it in the past.
    Sure but that's happened once, and odds don't look good for it happening again.
    Borgio needs to be included he's the main lord, it's like adding greenskins with no grimgor
    Technically it's happening again this next DLC.

    Borgio first LL of Southern Realms, however, so I agree.
    It's not though as you have to buy the new dlc to get the flc for the old dlc.
    No you don't.
    Yes you do.

    "WARHAMMER I, WARHAMMER II, Realm of the Wood Elves and this new DLC All the above plus additional new Wood Elf Legendary Lord, new units and characters for use in Mortal Empires."
    Notice how it says Realm of the Wood Elves and this new DLC.
    No, it doesn't:

    "For owners of TW: WARHAMMER, TW: WARHAMMER II and The Realm of the Wood Elves DLC Pack: If you’ve been with us since the beginning, we have a few additional surprises lined up that make this, already jam-packed DLC, even more interesting.

    If you’ve collected all that content you’ll also get a bonus legendary lord with all the trimmings! We can’t wait to introduce you to her. "

    Written above what you quoted, so what exactly are you smoking? Because, the lower bracket doesn't actually have a special division for simply owning the two games and old DLC without this new DLC, it's inaccurate. You get the new free LL without the new DLC.

    Otherwise, if we took it verbatim it also says: "WARHAMMER I, WARHAMMER II and this new DLC All the above, plus Old World Update for Wood Elves in the Mortal Empires Campaign." meaning that you would need the new DLC for the Old World update which is not the case. It has never been the case. The update is always free.

    Let me show you, in short, how inaccurate it is:



    The two sections are in clear contradiction, ****.
    Except it clearly states that you need the current dlc.
    Sure in the bit above it doesn't mention it but in the breakdown it clarifys it.
    Yes, and the breakdown is clearly self-contradictory. It lists the WE update as requiring the new WE DLC despite the fact that A. reworks are always free and B. that it makes no sense. It doesn't require the old DLC but if you didn't own the original DLC then it would have no effect as you don't own it. If it was a map rework then, again, it wouldn't need owning this new DLC. The "breakdown" is the wrong one. This fourth LL is free, ****, it's even listed as such in the summation.


    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

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