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Amazons Official Army List and more

SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
edited November 2020 in General Discussion



Please Read: This post will bleed into the first few comments below the OP. Information on the Units displayed and all the sources, among other things, will be in the first few comments below the OP.


Introduction


The Amazons, as with anything that didn't get an official army book, are a faction that has been subject to years of hearsay and misinformation; a faction many people disavow or assume is fan-made, but despite their obscurity, they're about as legit as you can get, barring having their own army book. They've been around since 2nd edition, they were devised by Richard Halliwell himself (Lustria, in general, was his brainchild) and they have more source material, noted units and potential than perhaps even the Vampire Coast had.

The problem is that the original lore for them was seemingly lost to time (being all the way back in 2nd edition) and since then, Games Workshop intentionally made all references to them fragmented and incomprehensible to anyone who hasn't read all of it and put 2 and 2 together (literally referencing things out of context that make no sense unless you've read through a scenario from 2nd edition). Thankfully though, that's exactly what I've done.

So its time to set the record straight once and for all. In this post, I'll be going over who the Amazons are, what they're about, what official stuff they have from their lore, models and rules, and then I’ll add in some conjecture of my own and top it off with sources at the bottom to show how tenable an Amazon faction could be.


Disclaimers going forward


⦁ Because this race is largely unknown to people, I’m going to be using a lot of comparisons to units from other factions like Witch Elves and Swordmasters to help explain what they’re about. This is not to suggest that these Amazon units are derivative of them or simple reskins, its just for the sake of brevity.

⦁ I’ll be using 40k artwork and models from the Escher Gang here and there just to give you an idea. The Escher Gang was directly inspired by the Amazons and might as well be the same faction. This is not to imply that the units will look like 40k and be out of place if implemented into WH2.

⦁ While the Amazons have plenty of lore, models and stated units, the one thing they've always lacked is official artwork, so alot of the art I used in general is mostly placeholder, coming from other sources just to paint a pretty picture of what the unit or character might look like (things like the Queen of Amazonia being Princess Mononoke is simply creative liberty for my own enjoyment since we have no images of her).

⦁ Some roles may overlap. In fact, there are more units than displayed here which I didn’t add for this reason, I’m sure CA could find a niche but if some seem similar it’s because they are.

⦁ Yes, they are still cannon. They appear in 2nd and 3rd edition, they survived the purge of 4th edition and are referenced in 5th, 6th, and 7th ed as well as Mordheim.

⦁ The 40K weapons they use were never ret-conned and in 6th edition GW brought many of them back but started to rename and somewhat distance them from their 40K roots, making them more Aztec and Old One inspired. This would be an easy way for CA to bypass any issues that may arise with them being 1 to 1 ripped from 40K, they just need to change the design and name slightly as they did for Power Swords and some others already.


Who are the Amazons?


Some of you may have heard the theory that the Amazons were Norscan Valkyries who grew tired of their lazy useless husbands in Skeggi, took up arms, slaughtered them and set off to the Isle of Amazon, converting to the Lizardmen religion and becoming savages. This did happen, but its not where the Amazons as a race came from, the Valkyries merely assimilated into Amazon society.

The true Amazons are aesthetically a combination of Mesoamerican Tribeswomen, the Ancient Greeks (or Scythians rather) of their namesake and Punk-Rock Girls like the Escher 40k Gang they inspired. They’ve existed just as long as the Lizardmen and according to their mythology, they are the direct descendants of "The Goddess Rigg". Rigg was an Old One and she's also the main deity in the Amazon Pantheon. For whatever reason, Rigg was considered an "Outsider/Outcast" among the Old Ones, so while all the other Old Ones went on with the Great Plan, working directly with the 1st generation Slann and all that, Rigg and Elven God known as Amex had a child called "Kalith, the Mother of all Amazons" and together with her Daughter, Rigg created her own little kingdom known as “Amazonia” In southern Lustria. Even back then, Amazonia was a wild and fiercely independent land.

While their mythology tells that Kalith was the Daughter of Rigg and that the Amazons are the Goddesses children, other sources state that the Amazons were genetic experiments created by the Old Ones, just like the Lizardmen, and that Kalith might simply have been a champion amongst the women that Rigg picked to lead them, or perhaps she was the original test subject or the first / greatest success of their experiments.

It's unclear what involvement Rigg had with the creation of the Slann, the Temple-Cities and the world in general. We don't know why she went into exile, or whether that exile was self-imposed or not (It seems to have been, but we never get confirmation).

Despite being in exile, Rigg, Kalith, and their children (the Amazons) were accepted by the other Old Ones and the Lizardmen. There was a time where the Amazons and Lizardmen wared continually, with the Amazons fiercely defending their autonomy, but eventually, they're able to trade and co-exist relatively peacefully. The Amazons themselves were even valued as Acolytes/Viziers and Thralls by the other Old Ones and the Slann and were known as “the Right hand of the Gods”, “The Eternal Handmaidens” and Rigg’s “Faithful Half-Kin”, presumably because the Amazons are either a fusion of Old One and Human DNA, or they are literally the direct descendants of the Goddess and her daughter Kalith.



The Sisterhood


During the High age of Southern Lustria, before the arrival of Chaos, the Amazons were ruled over by Rigg, her daughter Kalith and an order of mages who were the closest thing to scientists the Warhammer World is going to get. They studied under Rigg (and possibly the other Old Ones) they could read their language and helped manufacture their great technology as the Slann and Lizardmen did.

When the Great Catastrophe saw the departure of the Old Ones from this world, and while the Lizardmen fought a centuries-long war against Chaos, the Amazons found themselves weakened when the Old Ones left this world, though it's not stated outright, it would seem they had some superhuman abilities and/or a natural immortality when they served the Old Ones; abilities that were diminished when their masters left this world. Being far smaller in number than the Lizardmen and frightened by their diminished power, they fled into the jungle to start hundreds of secret enclaves of nomadic tribes, small villages, and occupied Temple-Cities/shrines/Monuments of the Old Ones, etc, throughout the whole continent of Lustria.

The first generation Slann were all killed and those Lizardmen that remained had no first-hand knowledge of the Old Ones, the Great Plan or their tech, so they devolved into a more superstitious and primitive people. But the Amazons, having successfully hidden themselves away and outlasted the Great Catastrophe, did not forget, and While they couldn’t recreate the Old Ones technological wonders, they knew how it all worked; they can repair and rebuild their structures and weapons, they have ancient tomes for magic and other things (basically instruction manuals for magic and technology) which they can still read and they know how to use their weaponry properly.

The Ancient Order of Mages that once ruled them alongside the Old Gods formed the basis of the modern-day Amazon Sisterhood. This order is the centre of their religion, they are the high priestesses, mages and technocrats who control all of the Old One artefacts, tomes, weapons and secrets held by their people. While the Amazons have different tribes with different leaders and a monarchy who rules over them all, it seems even the Queen herself has to defer to the Sisterhood's wisdom and authority.



The Religion and the Koka-Kalim


The Amazons Worship Rigg as the mother of their people and the patron deity of warfare, blood, Koka, and Violent Death. While there are many way temples dedicated to their Pantheon doted throughout Amazonia, the Temple of Kara Within Genaina (the city surrounding it) and the Shrine of Rigg upon the Shores of Lake Lokka are the two religious centres of the Cult of Rigg and worshippers of the Goddess make regular pilgrimages to these holy sites.

The Koka-Kalim are religious Zealots (equivalent to Witch Elves) who are fanatically dedicated to the Worship of Rigg. As part of their devotion, their order stresses the religious value of the narcotic “Koka” to which they are all incredibly addicted. Constantly in the grip of the drug’s effects, the woman of this order eat, sleep and say very little. Deprived of normal sensory functions, they can overcome great pain and have little natural aversion to blood slaughter or death. Their state of mind makes them unpredictable, irrational, strung out and constantly on edge.

With their monopoly on the Technocratic religious establishment, the sisterhood maintain a small army of Koka-Kalim as servants, guards and fighters. These elite few who serve the Sisterhood are known as Kalim Devouts and it is the woman of these sacred orders who are entrusted with Old One Weaponry, most commonly Power Swords and Bolt Guns.



The Biology


The Amazons are physically identical to other humans, and while they are mortal and can still be killed, they don’t physically age and their population is almost entirely female. Among the Old Ones many augmentations of them, the Amazons were adapted to reproduce through Fluctuative Parthenogenesis, meaning they can reproduce as we do, but they can also reproduce asexually as some other animals can (Komodo Dragons for example). The process of reproduction is controlled by the Amazonian Sisterhood, whose priestesses use their knowledge of the Old Ones techniques to concoct various natural drugs that induce pregnancy and determine the gender of the child. Traditional reproduction can happen but is rare due to the introverted and involved nature of Amazon society.



The Norscan Legends


The Norscans have had a fair few encounters with the Amazons going back as far as Losteriksson, one brave Amazonian "Penthesilea" even led a raid into Skeggi itself and slaughtered many, including their chieftain. Local legend is that the Amazons were widows from Skeggi who grew weary of their husbands failed expeditions and left many years earlier. The Norse knew them as Valkyries, just like the fabled warriors of the Norse Gods who come to collect the souls of the bravest warriors who fall in battle.

The men of the Empire, on the other hand, have far less experience, only catching glimpses and learning mostly through hearsay. Imperial Scholars are known to be as arrogant as they are ignorant of the actual workings of the world, there are plenty of in-jokes between GW and their fans where Imperial scholars will reject the existence of the OId Ones, the Skaven, even evolution, because they think they know better, and the legend of the Valkyries is another case of this.

The Imperials almost unanimously believe the Norscan tales, all except one known as "Drivot the Diatribist". Drivot Was a Wizard of the College of Light who made bold claims about the Amazons and other elements of the Warhammer world that seemed preposterous to most imperial Scholars, who claim that there's no evidence to suggest he'd even been to the places he rants about with such fervour and madness. Ironically, this story that claims all that Drivot says is nonsense secretly proves hes right and brings the Amazons original lore back into the cannon, because there is proof Drivot is telling the truth. If we go back to the Shrine of Rigg scenario from 2nd edition, there is a list of everything contained within the Amazons library and sitting in there are 2 books titled "Drivot’s Diatribes parts 1 and 2" (I've highlighted it in the sources below the OP).

The truth of the matter is that the creation myth of the Amazons and the Norscan legends are both atleast half true. The Amazons were created by the Old Ones, However, in recent times their numbers have dwindled / they want to grow, so contact with other humans has increased and groups like the Norscan women who left have been recruited and assimilated into Amazon society, thus bolstering their numbers.



Amazon Faction Playstyle


The Amazonians are visually and from a lore perspective, one of the most unique and interesting factions in WHFB, taking inspiration from Punk-Rock Women, Mesoamerican cultures, the Greeks and Scythians where the myth originates, with a little bit of SI-FI/40K sprinkled in there for good measure.

Their playstyle draws from these sources accordingly and as a faction, they exist in a Venn Diagram between Kislev, Norsca and the Wood Elves. They're a lightning-quick, hybrid, squishy, high damage output faction. But where the Wood Elves are the ultimate kite faction, with Tree Spirits to obfuscate their squishiness, Norsca have very powerful hammers to complement their squishy high damage anvils and Kislev has a well-rounded mix, The Amazons are focused around Ambushing, stealth and hit-and-run skirmish play.

they'd have their drugs, poison and berserker rage-type mechanics that would stop them from losing models under their influence or tank damage like Savage Orcs. This, combined with dodge and deflect, would allow them to transcend their squishy nature if used correctly. Considering they live in the jungles and swamps around the Amaxon River, it'd also be good if most of their roster had strider, able to fight in the jungle and water with ease.

The boring thing to do would be to give them bonuses to fighting in the forest like the Wood Elves, but I think it'd be more interesting and befitting if they gave them buffs for when they switch between Terrain types. So, when you burst out of a forest to attack someone, when you charge into the water or out of the water, or into the forest, etc. This totally fits them like a glove, as all over their lore it talks about them rushing in and out of cover, ambushing, chasing after fleeing enemies etc. It would also engender constant movement and awareness of the terrain types, rather than the passivity of sitting in the forest.


Amazon Army List


Legendary Characters











Generic Lords/Heroes










Infantry












Hybrid Melee-Ranged Units







Ranged








Cavalry, Monsters and Beasts









Old One Tech (for units and/or characters)









Units that aren't officially in their roster, but are heavily related / plausible









Lore of the Serpent (unique Lore)




Magical Items










Source List

Warhammer 2nd edition army book, Battle Bestiary

Lizardmen 5th edition army book

Lizardmen 7th edition Army Book

Lizardmen 8th edition Army Book

Citadel 2nd edition Compendium

Citadel 3rd edition compendium
-Shrine of Rigg Scenario Page 6-14

Mordheim Town Cryer Issue 11

Mordheim Town Cryer issue 15

Mordheim Town Cryer Issue 23

Spanish White Dwarf #50 (allegedly)

White Dwarf #300

White Dwarf #305

White Dwarf #307

White Dwarf #308

Additional Rules by Andy Hoare

Lustria Campaign Supplement
Post edited by SeanJeanquoi on
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  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    edited September 2020
    (optional) Info on their Legendary Characters

    Anakonda
    Anakonda and her Amazons are warrior women of the savage, yet noble Amazonian Sisterhood. The origins of the Warband and how many of these warriors exist is unknown, for they remained hidden for many years in the Lustrian jungles.

    What is known from the collected journals and rambling testimonies of various explorers lucky enough to have survived prolonged contact with them, is scant. It is believed they take their names from the jungle beasts with which they share their lands. These names are tied into strict ritual and one scholar has theorised that totemic identities are granted after a physical trial akin to a rite of passage. Anakonda, their leader, is known as such after she wrestled a huge snake, slew it and flayed its skin to wear as a trophy and record of her deed. Other warriors In the warband have performed similar feats and are named accordingly.

    Anakonda's Amazons are ferocious fighters, clothed in the flayed hides of Skinks, with many bearing animal-headed masks, they are a fearsome sight. Some dye their hair in myriad colours reminiscent of the exotic birds of the jungle, and raise it with resin and sap to mimic a Skink's crest. The Amazons' skin is tanned from the tropical sun, and they wear animal tails and the long feathers of tropical birds from waist belts. Awarded for feats of valour in battle, the more magnificent the tail, the higher the status of the warrior. Amazons are adorned with all manner of gold, bangles, anklets, rings and other trinkets that they have claimed from their enemies as battle trophies. Understandably, most of these are Lizardman in origin, even the standard of their warband is adorned with plucked feathers taken from exotic birds held sacred by the Lizardmen.


    Dekala


    Karra Lakota
    Karra Lakota's whole life has been a tale of rebellion, intransigence and laziness. When she was 25 her mother forced her to leave home and join the Kalim Devouts.

    The Devouts serve the all-powerful Amazonian Sisterhood. Life amongst the Kalim is arduous, exhausting and unremitting. Karra was miserable, again and again, she came into conflict with her superior and time and again, she would be punished with even more work and even longer hours.

    Eventually, she was contacted by an underground subversive Kalimist faction. Their opposition to authority appealed to her and she became a member.

    Karra was posted at Rigg's Shrine when she became involved in an ambitious plot. The Queen was about to visit the shrine and the Kalim extremists planned to blow up the entire building. Long before the plan reached fruition someone informed the Sisterhood of the Conspiracy and Karra was tipped off. She stole a Bolt Pistol, several magazines of ammunition and fled into the jungle, winding up in the Norscan coastal village of Iquitos; she hates the place, as she cannot abide by the Norse, nor their chauvinistic attitudes.

    Karra eventually finds herself in the Service of the Magnificent Sven, who is living out his exile in Lustria with his personal Ironclad "The Voltsvagn". While drinking at the near deserted Iquitos Inn long into the night with a Norse Dwarf Juggo Joriksonn, Sven is approached by a Norscan Wizard Aygar Mistletaine, who informs the Dwarfs that a nearby town of Vastervik is under attack by a renegade band of Lizardmen and pleads for his help in saving the townsfolk in exchange for all the money the town can muster. Sven agrees and ropes Juggo into being his first mate. The trio rushes out of the bar to find recruits for their adventure, but Iquitos is almost deserted, as a large expedition has recently left, taking with it all of the free-lance fighters. He tries everywhere but only manages to find 12 hungover Norscan Berserkers, Karl Ustracutter (one of the aforementioned hungover Berserkers) and Riolta Snow (an Elf Archer from Lothern). With promises of adventure, fame (and more drink) Sven rallies a ragtag force to his banner and they make haste back to his Ironclad.

    Karra Lakota had already been recruited by Sven sometime ago and had stayed on the Voltsvagn to guard the ship, but as Sven and his crew rush aboard, they find that She is fast asleep. The crew are unable to wake her until the early hours of the morning, but by this time the Voltsvagn is already halfway to Vastervik. She protests loudly about being involved in such a venture but is quickly ignored when a stowaway is discovered: Raidocks Timmowit, a Halfling and an old acquaintance of Sven, who begrudgingly becomes the final member of their ragtag crew.

    Being an Amazon, Karra is largely indifferent to Vastervik's fate. She complains bitterly at the high handed way she was involved in the conflict. She does not, however, want to seem an utter coward. She has grown fond of Sven and would like to impress Riolta Snow. Just like Juggo, Sven's first mate, Karra also knows how to sail the Voltsvagn and together the group go onto save the village of Vastervik from the Slann and embark on many more perilous and profitable adventures.


    Mother Samantha
    Samantha's birthplace lies somewhere in Eastern Amazonia. Born into a nomadic tribe, she eventually became a member of the Kalim and from there, joined the Devout.

    She rose with remarkable speed from devout to the Sisterhood and then upwards through the ranks of the Sisterhood. She is now a High Priestess, the head of the Holy Shrine of Rigg.

    Samantha is still surprisingly young. Because of her Nomadic Amazon background, she is an agile and able fighter as well as she is a powerful magician. She's equipped with the traditional weapons of the High Priestess of Rigg (Long bladed knife, Sunstaff and 4 throwing knives).


    Penthesilea


    Queen of Amazonia
    Little is actually stated about the Queen of Amazonia directly. As a figure, she functions similar to the Japanese Emperor (though her people are divided into many different clans with different rulers and lands, they all owe fealty to her) and we know that she defers to the Sisterhood and their religion as the highest authorities of their people. Its possible the Amazon Queen is still Kalith, "mother of all Amazons" Daughter of Rigg herself, but from what I've seen, we've never been explicitly told who she is.


    Avatar of Rigg
    Despite the fact that the Old Ones disappeared from this world, Rigg (similar to Sotek) can still be summoned to the Mortal realm by her followers. While Sotek takes the form of a spell of sorts, Rigg properly manifests when called upon at places of power as a 9ft tall goddess with red hair and eyes.

    Obviously having a literal goddess as a General may be a bit much, but Summoning Rigg could be an integral mechanic of the Amazons as a faction, she could act as their Green Knight equivalent, being summoned after you capture X temple city or sacrifice Y number of people. In the old Scenario it says she will only appear to obey the single request of the summoner before vanishing back to her realm.



    (optional) Info on their generic characters and units

    Lords and Heroes
    Revered Mothers and Sisters (Sisterhood Mage Lord/hero)
    The Revered Mothers are likely some of the most well-learned Mages in the Warhammer world considering they have access to text straight from the Old Ones themselves. They'd be Caster Lords with access to every lore (except serpent) but similar to the Vampire Counts, Amazon Sisterhood Mages also double as good melee combatants as well.

    Serpent Priestess (Unique Lore)
    Same as the other Sisterhood Mages, but with a unique lore.

    Piranha Warrior (Hybrid-Support)
    Piranha Warriors are hybrid Ranged-melee Support Characters. They're decent melee combatants that are mainly focused on their ranged capabilities, however, their conch shell on Tabletop allowed them to warn of coming attacks, giving the player the ability to redeploy troops. This could translate to great spotting distance so they can effectively counter stealth units and it could also give them Leadership buffs to surrounding troops.

    Amazon Champion (Bodyguard)
    Champions are the right hand of the Sisterhood mages and are there to take a bullet for them. They're purely focused on being tanky support characters for other Lords and Heroes, with aura's of protection, bonuses when you have them near a lord, etc.

    Eagle Warrior (Assassin)
    Eagle Warriors could function like Eshen Assassins, lightning-quick character-killers who are somewhat squishy, but have an incredible damage output.



    Infantry
    Bodyguard
    The Amazon Army takes alot of inspiration from its Greek/Macedonian mythological origins and the Bodyguards are the bread and butter of the Amazon forces. Similar to the Macedonian phalanx, the Amazon Bodyguards have very long Sarissa's that they can hold with two hands and a buckler-type shield fixed onto their arm to protect their side from attacks.

    Functionally though, they'd work the opposite to a slow lumbering phalanx, the Bodyguard would be anti-large and have both a charge defence and a good charge bonus, really emphasising their hit and run playstyle, able to effectively ram their spears into the enemy and swiftly scramble together a line of defence against charging enemies.

    There are other Bodyguard variants too: normal hand weapons / throwing weapons / heavy armour.

    Amazon Nobles
    If the Bodyguards are the Phalanx then the Amazon Nobles are the Hypaspits, the elite shield bearers with noble blood who protect the flanks of the core front line and act as the through-line between the front line and the Cavalry.

    This unit would be fast, tanky and high tier. Considering they're nobles (meaning they're well trained minor characters themselves) CA cold potentially give them a unique character / single entity killing niche like that unique Nanman unit in 3K.

    Spear + Sword Warriors
    Amazon Warriors with a Spear and Sword would be functionally the same as Shadowdancers, with the same animations and relative functionality (minus the magic), they'd be swift Anti-Infantry with alot of dodge.

    Tetsubo Warriors (Dual Clubs / 2 Handed Club)
    In the Lore and on their models they dual wield clubs with sharp blade pieces attached to them, but they could also have a 2 handed Tetsubo type weapon (like in Shogun 2) regardless, this would be their core Armour Piercing unit.

    Berserkers
    Much like their Norscan rivals, the Amazon Berserkers would be Damage Dealers with Frenzy and Anti-Infantry.

    Jaguar Warriors
    Jaguar Warriors have Stalk and are stated to be proficient hunters of both Skink and Saurus. Technically this may translate to Anti-Infantry but It would be better for the roster if they were Anti-Large, Anti-Armour or perhaps they have an ability that negates the effects of Scaley Skin in general and thus they're good against all the units which have it.

    Sisterhood Novice
    This unit holds some of the most promise IMO. As novices/fanatics of the Sisterhood, they could function like Flagellants with unbreakable, they could work like Light Wizard Acolytes where they can be used in close proximity to caster lords/heroes to give a boon to their winds of magic and spells, they could have bound spells or they could be a combination of all 3 of these things.

    Totem Warriors
    Totem Warriors wield Macuahuitl's, a weapon described as a kind of "Saw Sword" that was common among Mesoamerican cultures pre-conquest. It may come as a surprise but this weapon would likely make them Anti-Large, because the blades all around the sides are made of obsidian which is extremely sharp but also very brittle. Its very effective against lightly armoured troops and is so sharp it can even decapitate a horse in one swing, but the obsidian often shatters on impact with other obsidian blades or steel/Armour.

    Totem Warriors could also come in different flavours considering we know the Amazon's dedicate themselves to different gods and totems etc.



    Hybrid Melee-Ranged units

    Koka-Kalim
    The Koka-Kalim are similar to Death Hags with their Witches Brew and the Red Crested Skink RoR with their "refuse to Die" ability. Koka-Kalim would be able to use their drugs to tank through damage and buff themselves to punch well above their weight. They also have throwing knives, which allows them to inflict a bit of damage at very close range just before the charge.

    Some Kalim also use Blowpipes, allowing them to become a pure hybrid unit (likely at the cost of some melee stats).

    Amazon Queens Bodyguard
    The Amazonian Queensguard are an elite hybrid unit with a Sword, Spear and Bow, so similar to the Sword + Spear unit prior, but with a ranged attack and likely better stats. Not much is stated about them past their name and their loadout.

    Bodyguard (Bows +chainmail/armour)
    This would be like a Lothern Seaguard type unit with more armour than Tribeswomen and a good charge defence with the spears.

    Javelins
    This is pretty self-explanatory, similar to Skink Javelins or Marauder Hunters w/ Javelins. They'd be decent melee combatants and Anti-Large.



    Missile Units

    Tribeswomen (Hand Weapon + Bows)
    Tribeswomen would be your basic lightly armoured archer unit.

    Slingers
    Slingers would be an incredibly cheep disorganised unit that can avoid missile damage like Empire Archers with their loose formation, but are incredibly weak in melee.

    Blowpipe Skirmishers
    These would be just like Skink Skirmishers.

    Scouts
    This is your typical Ranged stealth unit with Stalk, Vanguard Deployment and potentially fire whilst moving.



    Cavalry, Monsters and Beasts
    Cold One Riders and Culchan Riders
    It would be fairly easy to delineate these two, Cold Ones could have higher damage output but be slower than the Culchan's and Culchans could be Anti-Infantry, while Cold One riders could be Anti-Large. For more on Culchans, see their feral entry below.

    Feral Cold Ones
    Since they have Cold One Riders this seemed like a no-brainer. I really like the idea of the Amazon Cold Ones having feathers and looking alot more like the modern understanding of the Dinos that inspired them, since the Amazons are all about an avian theme with feathers left and right, I think it ties together their colourful roster alot better and makes the Cold One inclusion more than just a 1 to 1 conversion from the Lizardmen to the Amazons.

    Feral Culchans
    The Culchan is a huge, flightless, carnivorous bird that lives on the pampas grasslands of southern Lustria. It is prized by Pygmies and Lizardmen for its multi-coloured plumes and for its flesh, which is considered a delicacy by both races.

    These unusual birds have strong legs and necks, whilst their head is similar to that of a parrot. Their beaks are exceptionally strong, and can easily crack a man's skull. The plumage is usually brown, but males in good condition grow a completely new set of colourful red and blue plumage, as well as long tails and crests. They reach 8 to 9 feet in height.

    These creatures are extremely fierce, but can be used as riding beasts if hand-reared. Consequently, eggs or hatchling's are very valuable. They're based off the Phorusrhacids or "Terror Birds" which were once an apex predictor in real-life South America after the age of the Dinosaurs.

    Jaguar Hunting Packs
    The Jaguar is one of Lustria's big-cats (others include animals such as Cougars and Saber-Toothed Tigers). The Lustrian Jaguar is a large animal, larger than any living big cat in our own world. They cannot be ridden, but if captured when young and carefully reared, they can be kept as pets, guards or animals of war. The Amazons are particularly skilled at this and the Jaguar has become the companion animal to many Amazonian High Priestesses.



    Old One Technology

    Bolt Pistols (can fire explosive rounds and have a long reload time. The Amazons also create their own poison bullets that have various horrible effects on anyone who is unlucky enough to survive a shot from them)

    Bolt Rifles (Bolt Guns, Rifles and Pistols, Fire explosive rounds and have to reload like crossbows)

    Needlers (Stealth Unit with poison attacks that has to reload like muskets)

    Claw of the Old Ones (Power Sword that has a limited charge and can be activated periodically to do very high damage for a short time, with a long cooldown)

    Sun Gauntlets (similar to Kroq-Gar, however the Amazons actually know how to use them so these could potentially fire a mid-range high damage projectile like Spectural Stalkers as well as being used in tandem with another weapon proficiently in melee)



    Units that aren't officially in their roster but could be justified

    Engine of the Gods
    Since they still know how Old One tech works and how to repair it, they could have a proper fully functioning Engine of the Gods.

    Norscan Sword Maidens
    This comes from the Norscan Valkyries they recruited from Skeggi, it's possible that they retained some of their culture and since Sword Maidens are a no-brainer unit Norsca itself will no doubt get sometime in the future, they'd be perfect here.

    Saber Toothed Cavalry and Hunting Packs
    We know from their world distribution that Saber-Toothed Tigers exist in Lustria and since the Amazons have an affinity with Cougars and Jaguars (and since those two animals are stated to be too small for a person to ride) Saber-Tooth's would be great for giving them an upgraded version of Jaguars that the Amazons can actually ride like cavalry.

    Great Amaxon Constrictors
    The Amazons worship a Serpent god just like the Lizardmen (it may even be Sotek) and There are Giant Constrictors and Snakes of all kinds in the Jungles of Lustria. One of the largest (that can be found in the Jungle Swarms) is the Amaxon Constrictor which lives along the rivers that gave them their name. Anakonda and her Amazon Dogs of War regiment are also said to be named after the giant snakes which share their land, one of which Anakonda slew herself in a right of passage. Again, another unit that has such a connection to the faction I'm surprised they weren't in their roster in the first place.
    Post edited by SeanJeanquoi on
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    edited December 2020
    Starting Locations

    We Know from their lore that there are multiple Amazon tribes, some of them are completely nomadic, some are more settled, meaning the faction don't necessarily need starting positions; some could be hordes, some could be settlers or they all could be in-between (like the Vampire Coast). They could even make them like the Wood Elves, with the Temple of Kara/Amazon Island being their factions "Athel Loren". But lets just explore what's on the table for them in terms of starts anyway.

    These locations are based less around game balance and more on their actual lore. Some of these locations might not be ideal gameplay-wise and if I was CA, I'd probably be considering other start positions like "The Isle of the Crimson Skull" and even the Southlands as a potential start position, but right now I'm focusing on lore.

    7th Edition Map of Lustria


    8th Edition Map


    Ganaina (the Temple of Kara)

    "The Amazons live in hundreds of scattered villages throughout the jungle and in the Amazonian city of Genaina. Genaina, although incorporating many stone buildings of considerable size, is mostly built of grass and mud in the same way as the smaller villages. Amazon Villages can be easily recognised by the manner of construction, for the builders nearly always erect their dwellings upon tall poles of solid wood, so as to raise the living areas away from the ground. In this way, the Amazons avoid the worst excesses of periodic flooding.

    In addition to the small villages and way Temples dotted throughout Amazonia, there are two main cult centres: the Temple of Kara in Genaina and the Great Shrine of Rigg, standing on the shores of Lake Lokka."


    The City of Ganaina is perhaps the most important city to the Amazonian people, where the Temple of Kara resides and the otherworldly Royal Palace of the Sisterhood, said to contain untold riches and high age technological wonders. Its one of the 2 greatest sites of pilgrimage for the Amazons and is likely the seat of power for the Queen herself.


    Amazon Island and the Shrine of Rigg


    This island was added on the Lizardmen Army Book map in 5th edition and was stated to house Amazon woman in 6th edition and in White Dwarf #300 it is stated that this is where the Shrine of Rigg and Lake Lokka reside, making the Island one of the 2 most sacred sites of pilgrimage in Amazonia. The Lizardmen never set foot on the island on orders of the Slann due to the Amazons believed place in the Great Plan. Though the Lizardmen don't worship Rigg, they know about her and respect her and her folk as part of the Plan.


    Xlansec, City of the Outsider


    In the original Amazon sources, it states that their civilisation got its start in the 'High Age of Southern Lustria' and though we're never explicitly told where, Xlansec seems like the best bet since the Goddess Rigg is the only noted "Outsider" worth referencing amongst the Old Ones or Lizardmen.

    Also, from the Lustria campaign book we know the Amazons live in the Culchan plains that cover most of the land south of Oxyl all the way down to the Citadel of Dusk (Xlansec is in this area) and we know from multiple sources that the Amazon's are associated with and ride Culchans, which are almost exclusively found in this territory around Xlansec (hence why the plains are named after them).

    And if that wasn't enough for you, WH2's map has little signs of the Amazons all over Lustria. Their settlements are noted for being villages made of wood, often suspended on stilts and in several locations on the WH2 Lustria map, there are little shacks and even human farms...The location with the largest number of these in a single region is Xlansec, with 3 wooden farms on it.

    therefore, I guarantee you Xlansec: City of the Outsider is or was the city of Rigg and the centre of the Amazon civilisation before the Great Catastrophe. This is a simple 2+2=4 scenario in my opinion.


    Ruined Temple of Chiquibol


    So, where Xlansec is a 2+2=4 equation, it being fairly obvious given the evidence, this one is more 2+2=7, I'm stretching it based on a potential mistake and since this is a main settlement that is currently vacant in the Vortex Campaign.

    As you may have seen on the 7th edition map, the temple of Kara is in the wrong place. In all the lore, before and after, its noted that the temple of Kara is on the scorpion coast and that it resides within the City of Ganaina, so surely the royal palace and Temple of Kara should be in the same place?

    Perhaps they meant to put a different landmark in its place...One that is also related to the Amazons? based on the position, the only thing that fits the bill in WH2 and on the 8th edition map is the Ruined Temple of Chiquibol, which is an empty main settlement in WH just sitting there. This is a stretch I know, but I thought it was worth pointing out, since I have no idea why they decided to put the Temple of Kara there in 7th edition.


    Other potential start Positions


    Nomadic Tribes - It's suggested that most of the Amazonian tribes are nomadic in nature so they don't necessarily need a fixed start position, CA could make some of the factions nomadic and place them wherever they want in Lustria.

    The Old World - In the spin-off game Mordheim, The Empire captures an entire tribe of Amazonians (so many in fact that they believe they've captured their entire race) and they take them back to the Empire to be sold as slaves, exotic dancers, etc. Then the city falls and they, just like all the other factions from the skirmish game, are left amongst the rubble to fight for what remains. While the Amazons ther might sound small in number, relative to a Kingdom of the Empire, every single one of them is a warrior and their people are well known to liberate and assimilate women of other cultures into their ranks, thus growing their forces from local recruits (as they've done with Norscans in the past). This offers a fair justification to have an Amazonian tribe start in the Old World around Ostermark.

    The Southlands - This is more of a functional proposition than a lore one. The Lizardmen Empire during the time of the Old Ones stretched across the Southlands too and the Southlands was actually connected to Lustria before the Old Ones and Slann shifted the continents. Therefore it makes some sense that the Amazons could have populated this area as well, before being separated from their sisters and it would offer a more diverse range of start positions if we got one here.
    Post edited by SeanJeanquoi on
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    edited November 2020
    This is by no means everything, there's still alot of lore snippets I didn't convey, unit variants I felt weren't worth mentioning and potential units Like Great Eagles or warriors with claw blades that would be cool and fit their faction well, but I didn't want to bog the post down anymore than it needed to be or drown out the official stuff with too much conjecture.

    Here's an image collection of all the relevant sources I have on the Amazons (I posted this 8 comments below this one and figured I'd move it up here as well)

    The only one I don't have on hand is the Karra Lakota stuff, which is in the Magnificent Sven Scenario from 2nd edition.

    2nd edition Battle Bestiary pg 9, 21 (general references)



    2nd edition Battle Bestiary pg 12 (Amazon Biology and culture)


    2nd edition Battle Bestiary pg 10-11 (timeline)



    2nd edition Battle Bestiary pg 35, 36 (Cold Ones and Culchans)



    2nd edition Battle Bestiary pg 42 (Jaguars)


    2nd edition Battle Bestiary pg 49/53 (amazon units/art)


    Citadel Compendium Shrine of Rigg Scenario pg 6-14










    Citadel Compendium miniatures and art




    Lizardmen 5th edition pg 13, 49 (Origin of the myth of Norse women joining the Amazons)



    White Dwarf #305 (Norse legend referenced)


    Lizardmen 7th edition pg 26, 35 (Emerald Pools/general mentions)



    Lizardmen 7th edition pg 37 (mention of Rigg)


    Lizardmen 7th edition pg 100 (temple of Kara)


    Lizardmen 8th edition pg 41 (Amaxon Swamp Python)


    Mordheim Town Cryer 11 pg 18 (saber-toothed tigers, Amazon Scouts and Giant constrictors)


    Mordheim Town Cryer 15 pg 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 26, 30










    Town Cryer 23 pg 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9







    Lustria Campaign book pg 13, 14, 40 (Culchan plains/general mentions)




    Town Cryer Images/catalogue





    Spanish White Dwarf Issue #58 (from what I've been told)


    White Dwarf #300 pg 50 (conformation the Shrine of Rigg exists on Amazon Island)


    White Dwarf #307 pg 32-35






    White Dwarf #308 pg 44-45 (Anakonda)



    Additional Rules from Andy Hoare (official GW writer, similar in legitimacy to Nakai)



    Warhammer Armies: 3rd edition Ruebook pg 195-197 (there's also an image without lore earlier in the book)



    I may have forgotten some stuff or missed things entirely, let me know if you have additional sources.
    Post edited by SeanJeanquoi on
  • korradokortokorradokorto Registered Users Posts: 271
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 9,337
    I'm gonna slap a bit "citations needed" on that.

    Specifically, the second post. Since you've given text for each unit, could you give the sources for each unit so they can each be verified without having to dig through EVERYTHING in your list of sources?

    It'd also be particularly telling which things are from post-3E sources (eg: Culchan Riders) and which are from pre-4E sources. Pre-4E Amazons are portrayed as being more advanced than the few post-3E sources present them as.
  • neodeinosneodeinos Registered Users Posts: 9,065
    I don't think we'll ever get an Amazon DLC but god, I wish CA would do one. I **** wish.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    @Draxynnic

    Sure, just give me a minute, I figured that despite the citations people would want to see it.
  • MalalTheRenegadeMalalTheRenegade Registered Users Posts: 346
    Some really good stuff here. I didn't know Amazons had this kind of potential and I would welcome them now (I'd still prefer a reworked Araby though).

    Not at all a fan of Kalim Devouts and their totally out of place guns (I get it's from the Old Ones but Blasters and Rifles in Warhammer ? Meh ...)
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 18,165
    I would really love to see Amazons
    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    edited August 2020
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 10,030
    as long as who ever worked on damsels kept 100m away from the model design than i am on board. may be they could get less old one tech and more dinos, and have old one tech for ROR units and LL and LH
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • Ingr8Ingr8 Registered Users Posts: 1,661
    Yep... give them all bolt pistols and needles:



    What is this? The Necromunda, clan Escher army list?
    Dreaming of mighty Lumbria

  • KuntingWarriorKuntingWarrior Registered Users Posts: 1,765




    Please Read: This post will bleed into the first few comments below the OP. Information on the Units displayed among other things will be in the first few comments below the OP.

    Introduction


    The Amazons, as with anything that didn't get an official army book, are a faction that has been subject to years of hearsay and misinformation; a faction many people disavow or assume is fan-made, but despite their obscurity, they're about as legit as you can get, barring having their own army book. They've been around since 2nd edition, they were devised by Richard Halliwell himself (Lustria, in general, was his brainchild) and they have more source material, noted units and potential than perhaps even the Vampire Coast had.

    The problem is that the original lore for them was seemingly lost to time (Being all the way back in 2nd edition) and since then, GamesWorkshop has intentionally made all references to them fragmented and incomprehensible to anyone who hasn't read all of it and put 2 and 2 together (literally referencing things out of context that make no sense unless you've read through a scenario from 2nd edition). Thankfully though, that's exactly what I've done.

    So its time to set the record straight once and for all. In this post, I'll be going over who the Amazons are, what they're about, what official stuff they have from their lore, models and rules, and then I’ll add in some conjecture of my own and top it off with sources at the bottom to show how tenable an Amazon faction could be.

    Disclaimers going forward


    ⦁ Because this race is largely unknown to people, I’m going to be using a lot of comparisons to units from other factions like Witch Elves and Swordmasters to help explain what they’re about. This is not to suggest that these Amazon units are derivative of them or simple reskins, its just for the sake of brevity.

    ⦁ I’ll be using 40k Artwork and models from the Escher Gang here and there just to give you an idea. The Escher Gang was directly inspired by the Amazons and might as well be the same faction. This is not to imply that the units will look like 40k and be out of place if implemented into WH2.

    ⦁ Some roles might overlap. In fact, there are more units than displayed here which I didn’t add for this reason, I’m sure CA could find a niche but if some seem similar it’s because they are.

    ⦁ Yes, they are still cannon. They appear in 2nd and 3rd edition, they survived the purge of 4th edition and are referenced in 6th, 7th and 8th ed as well as Mordheim.

    ⦁ The 40K weapons they use were never ret-conned and in 6th edition GW brought many of them back but started to rename and somewhat distance them from their 40K roots, making them more Aztec and Old One inspired. This would be an easy way for CA to bypass any issues that may arise with them being 1 to 1 ripped from 40K, they just need to change the design and name slightly as they did for Power Swords and some others already.

    Who are the Amazons?


    Some of you may have heard the theory that the Amazons were Norscan Valkyries who grew tired of their lazy useless husbands in Skeggi, took up arms, slaughtered them and set off to the Isle of Amazon, converting to the Lizardmen religion and becoming savages. This did happen, but its not where the Amazons as a race came from, the Valkyries merely assimilated into Amazon society.

    The true Amazons are aesthetically a combination of Mesoamerican Tribeswomen, the Ancient Greeks of their namesake and Punk Rock Girls like the Escher 40k Gang they inspired. They’ve existed just as long as the Lizardmen and according to their mythology, they are the direct descendants of "The Goddess Rigg". Rigg was an Old One and she's also the main deity in the Amazon Pantheon. For whatever reason, Rigg was considered an "Outsider/Outcast" among the Old Ones, so while all the other Old Ones went on with the Great Plan, working directly with the 1st generation Slann and all that, Rigg and Elven God known as Amex had a child called "Kalim, the Mother of all Amazons" and together with her Daughter, Rigg created her own little kingdom known as “Amazonia” In southern Lustria. Even back then, Amazonia was a wild and fiercely independent land.

    While their mythology tells that Kalim was the Daughter of Rigg and that the Amazons are the Goddesses children, other sources state that the Amazons were genetic experiments created by the Old Ones, just like the Lizardmen, and that Kaith might simply have been a champion amongst the women that Rigg picked to lead them, or perhaps she was the original test subject or the first / greatest success of their experiments.

    Its unclear what involvement Rigg had with the creation of the Slann, the Temple-Cities and the world in general. We don't know why she went into exile, whether that exile was self-imposed or not (It seems to have been, but we never get confirmation).

    Despite being in exile, Rigg, Kalim and their children (the Amazons) were accepted by the other Old Ones and the Lizardmen. The two groups were able to trade and co-exist relatively peacefully. The Amazons themselves were even valued as Acolytes/Viziers and Thralls by the other Old Ones and the Slann and were known as “the Right hand of the Gods”, “The Eternal Handmaidens” and Rigg’s “Faithful Half-Kin”, presumably because the Amazons are either a fusion of Old One and Human DNA, or they are literally the direct descendants of the Goddess and her daughter Kalim.



    The Sisterhood


    During the High age of Southern Lustria, before the arrival of Chaos, the Amazons were ruled over by Rigg, her daughter Kaith and an order of mages who were the closest thing to scientists the Warhammer World is going to get. They studied under Rigg (and possibly the other Old Ones) they could read their language and helped manufacture their great technology as the Slann and Lizardmen did.

    When the Great Catastrophe saw the departure of the Old Ones from this world, and while the Lizardmen fought a centuries long war against Chaos, the Amazons found themselves weakened when the Old Ones left this world, though its not stated outright, it would seem they had some super human abilities and/or a natural immortality when they served the Old Ones; abilities that were diminished when their masters left this world. Being far smaller in number than the Lizardmen and frightened by their diminished power, they fled into the jungles to start secret enclaves of nomadic tribes, small villages and occupied Temple-Cities/shrines/Monuments of the Old Ones, etc.

    The first generation Slann were all killed and those that remained had no first-hand knowledge of the Old Ones, the Great Plan or their Tech, so they devolved into a more superstitious and primitive people. But the Amazons, having successfully hidden themselves away and outlasted the Great Catastrophe, did not forget. And While they couldn’t recreate the Old Ones technological wonders, they knew how it all worked, they can repair and rebuild their structures and weapons, they have ancient tomes for magic and other things (basically instruction manuals for magic and technology) that they can still read and they know how to use their weaponry properly.

    The Ancient order of Mages that once ruled them alongside the Old Gods formed the basis of the modern-day Amazon Sisterhood. This order is the centre of their religion, they are the high priestesses, mages and they control all of the Old One artefacts, tomes, weapons and secrets. While the Amazons have different tribes with different leaders and a monarchy who rules over them all, it seems even the Queen herself has to defer to the Sisterhoods wisdom and authority.



    The Religion and the Koka-Kalim


    The Amazons Worship Rigg. The Temple of Kara Within Genaina (the city surrounding it) and the Shrine of Rigg upon the Shores of Lake Lokka are the two religious centres of the Cult of Rigg and worshippers of Rigg make regular pilgrimages to these holy sites.

    The Koka-Kalim are religious Zealots (equivalent to Witch Elves) who are fanatically dedicated to the Worship of Rigg. As part of their devotion, their order stresses the religious value of the Narcotic “Koka” to which they are all incredibly addicted. Constantly in the grip of the drug’s effects, the woman of this order eat, sleep and say very little. Deprived of normal sensory functions, they can overcome great pain and have little natural aversion to blood slaughter or death. Their state of mind makes them unpredictable, irrational, strung out and constantly on edge.

    With their monopoly on the Theological establishment, the sisterhood maintain a small army of Koka-Kalim as servants, guards and fighters. These elite few who serve the sisterhood themselves are known as Kalim Devouts and woman of these sacred orders are entrusted with Old One Weaponry, most commonly Power Swords and Bolt Guns.



    The Biology


    The Amazons are physically identical to other humans, and while they are mortal and can still be killed, they don’t physically age and their population is almost entirely female. Among the Old Ones many augmentations of them, the Amazons were adapted to reproduce through Fluctuative Parthenogenesis, meaning they can reproduce as we do, but they can also reproduce asexually as some other animals can (Komodo Dragons for example). The process of reproduction is controlled by the Amazonian Sisterhood, whose priestesses use their knowledge of the Old Ones techniques to concoct various natural drugs that induce pregnancy and determine the gender of the child. Traditional reproduction can happen but is rare due to the introverted and involved nature of Amazon society.



    The Norscan Legends


    The Norscans have had a fair few encounters with the Amazons going back as far as Losteriksson, one brave Amazonian "Penthesilea" even lead a raid into Skeggi itself and slaughtered many, including their chieftain. Local legend is that the Amazons were widows from Skeggi who left many years earlier. The Norse knew them as Valkyries, just like the fabled warriors of the Norse Gods who come to collect the souls of the bravest warriors who fall in battle.

    The men of the Empire on the other hand have way less experience, only catching glimpses and learning mostly through hearsay. Imperial Scholars are known to be as arrogant as they are ignorant of the actual workings of the world, there are plenty of in-jokes between GW and their fans, where Imperial scholars will reject the OId Ones existence, the existence of the Skaven, Evolution and so on because they think they know better and the legend of the Valkyries is another case of this.

    The Imperials almost unanimously believe the Norscan tales, all except one known as "Drivot the Diatribist". Drivot Was a Wizard of the College of Light who made claims about the Amazons and other elements of the Warhammer world that seemed preposterous to most imperial Scholars, claiming that theirs no evidence to suggest he'd even been to the places he rants about with such fervour and madness. However, There’s proof Drivot is telling the truth in the same source that calls him into question; if we go back to the Shrine of Rigg scenario from 2nd edition, there is a list of everything contained within the Amazons Library and sitting in there are 2 books titled "Drivot’s Philosophy parts 1 and 2".

    The truth of the matter is that the creation myth of the Amazons and the Norscan legends are both atleast half true. The Amazons were created by the Old Ones, However, in recent times their numbers have dwindled / they want to grow, so contact with other humans has increased and groups like the Norscan women who left have been recruited and assimilated into Amazon society, thus bolstering their numbers.



    Amazon Faction Playstyle


    The Amazonians are visually and from a lore perspective, one of the most unique and interesting factions in WHFB, taking inspiration from Punk Rock Women, Mesoamerican cultures, the Greeks and Macedonians where the myth originates, with a little bit of SI-FI/40K sprinkled in there for good measure.

    Their playstyle draws from these sources accordingly and as a faction, they exist in a Venn Diagram between Kislev, Norsca and the Wood Elves. They're a lightning quick, hybrid, squishy, high damage output faction. But where the Wood Elves are the Ultimate Kite faction, with Tree Spirits to obfuscate their squishyness, Norsca have very powerful hammers to complement their squishy-high damage anvils and Kislev has a well rounded mix, The Amazons are focused around Ambushing, stealth and hit-and-run skirmish play.

    they'd have their drugs, poison and berserker rage type mechanics that would stop them from loosing models under their influence or tank damage like Savage Orcs. This combined with Dodge would allow them to transcend their squishy nature if used correctly. Considering they live in the jungles and swamps around the Amaxon River, it'd also be good if most of their roster had strider, able to fight in the jungle and water with ease.

    The boring thing to do would be to give them bonuses to fighting in the forest like the Wood Elves, but I think it'd be more interesting and befitting if they gave them buffs for when they switch between Terrain types. So, when you burst out of a forest to attack someone, when you charge into the water or out of the water, or into the forest, etc. This totally fits them like a glove, as all over their lore it talks about them rushing in and out of cover, ambushing, chasing after fleeing enemies etc. It would also engender constant movement and awareness of the terrain types, rather than the passivity of sitting in the forest.


    Amazon Army List


    Legendary Characters











    Generic Lords/Heroes










    Infantry












    Hybrid Melee-Ranged Units







    Ranged








    Cavalry, Monsters/Beasts









    Old One Tech (for units and/or characters)









    Units that aren't officially in their roster, but are heavily related / plausible









    Lore of the Serpent (unique Lore)




    Magical Items










    Source List

    Warhammer 2nd edition army book, Battle Bestiary

    Warhammer 3rd edition army book

    Lizardmen 5th edition army book

    Lizardmen 8th edition Army Book

    Citadel 2nd edition Compendium

    Citadel 3rd edition compendium
    -Shrine of Rigg Scenario Page 6-14

    Mordheim Town Cryer Issue 11

    Mordheim Town Cryer issue 15

    Mordheim Town Cryer Issue 23

    White Dwarf #307

    White Dwarf #308

    Lustria Campaign Supplement pg 40
    Nice list, didn't know there was enough lore to make an army out of them.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 9,337
    edited August 2020
    Most of that I was aware of, which is why I was asking for citations on specific units.

    Cold Ones, for instance, is something that pops up regularly, but I hadn't seen any evidence that the Amazons actually rode them, and there's a lot of fluff that indicates that mammals can't without taking extreme measures.

    Looking through the 2E and 3E bestiaries, the 2E bestiary entry for Cold Ones says that they're used as riding beasts by Dark Elves, Amazons, Lizardmen, and Slann (noting that pre-4E Slann were almost nothing like current Slann). However, the Amazon list in 2E has no mounted warriors, and the 2E book doesn't mention the fluff about Cold One slime. The 3E book, however, introduces the concept that only cold-blooded creatures can ride Cold Ones, with the exception of Dark Elves, which disguise their scent with that of a cold-blooded creature and destroy their sense of smell so that the terrible smell of a Cold One doesn't put them off. So I think it's safe to say that Amazons riding Cold Ones is about as retconned as pre-4E Slann, and Culchan mounts replace rather than supplement Cold Ones.
  • KuntingWarriorKuntingWarrior Registered Users Posts: 1,765

    as long as who ever worked on damsels kept 100m away from the model design than i am on board. may be they could get less old one tech and more dinos, and have old one tech for ROR units and LL and LH

    Lol they would look like a bunch of melted mannequins if the damsel guy got his hands on them.
  • YakintonYakinton Registered Users Posts: 382
    impresive work, had no idea that had this much lore (very old but still) Now I really want them added.
    More race packs for WH2! but skip the wh40K weapons
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    @Ingr8

    Already explained that. The one on the Left is an official WHFB model, the image on the right is just a representation from Necromunda's Escher (the faction that was inspired by fantasy amazons). it was just to give some visual flair. They literally officially do have bolt guns, laz and needlers.
  • FungusHoundFungusHound Registered Users Posts: 4,745
    Well my position is the same as always:

    I will not say no to Amazons as the Pre-Order, but I won't be too broken up if they aren't.


    Nice work on this post though! I suppose you could always add the Cannibal Monkeys or the jungle dryad things to the list of not associated but wouldn't be too out of place. The first is cause I just like monkeys. The second is to make a certain someone blow a gasket that someone besides the Wood Elves has a jungle spirit.
  • yolordmcswagyolordmcswag Registered Users Posts: 3,482

    @Ingr8

    Already explained that. The one on the Left is an official WHFB model, the image on the right is just a representation from Necromunda's Escher (the faction that was inspired by fantasy amazons). it was just to give some visual flair. They literally officially do have bolt guns, laz and needlers.

    They officially did have bolt guns etc.* Khaine officially was the exact same being as Khorne. I don't think the 40K weapons would fit into the later WHFB at all, it would be better to keep them out. Along with a whole other bunch of stuff from the earlier editions.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 10,030

    @Ingr8

    Already explained that. The one on the Left is an official WHFB model, the image on the right is just a representation from Necromunda's Escher (the faction that was inspired by fantasy amazons). it was just to give some visual flair. They literally officially do have bolt guns, laz and needlers.

    They officially did have bolt guns etc.* Khaine officially was the exact same being as Khorne. I don't think the 40K weapons would fit into the later WHFB at all, it would be better to keep them out. Along with a whole other bunch of stuff from the earlier editions.
    i doubt they will big issue if they were limited to ror
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 4,456
    Most of the Amazon lore is invalidated by the fact that Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k are CONFIRMED to be different and seeperated in their entirety universes. That means that their entire Second Edition lore can no longer be considered to be canon in any way shape or form.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    @Draxynnic

    Yeah I'm aware of that. I was actually Incorrect, the Cold One source I cited was actually from 2nd edition.

    I Know its stated to take alot for humanoids to ride them, however, it is still officially referenced in 2nd edition and later by Andy Hoare and the Amazons are master herbalists, with acute knowledge passed down directly from the Old Ones, so a justification could easily be made that they know how to obfuscate the saliva issue, though I do admit there is a potential conflict here (Its not implausible that the Amazons do the same as the Dark Elves and some Norscans from Skeggi do)
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    edited August 2020

    Most of the Amazon lore is invalidated by the fact that Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k are CONFIRMED to be different and seeperated in their entirety universes. That means that their entire Second Edition lore can no longer be considered to be canon in any way shape or form.

    Nope, that's not true at all.

    First of all, the universes are still hinted to have been connected (Skaven contact the Eldar in the End Times for example)

    second of all, their 2nd edition lore is in no way dependant on the connection to 40K! not at all. It could be argued that the bolt gun elements are now invalid but nothing in their lore hinges on the 40K stuff and almost every other faction that was around pre-4th edition had stuff in their lore that was cut or changed, that did not invalidate their faction going forward, it merely changed that one specific piece.

    There's plenty of lore from pre-4th edition that is still official and valid, despite some elements of it or surrounding it being outdated or ret-conned (which is also not what happened to the Amazons, none of their 40K stuff was officially ret-conned).

    As I've already mentioned, the Amazons were carried over into 5th edition and beyond and their 2nd edition scenario is referenced and used constantly in those later appearances.

    Finally, as I sated before, the Amazons 40K elements were still brought over into 6th edition, however, they were altered to be less 40K and more Old Ones. Like I already said, this is a totally valid way of converting Bolt Guns/Laz/whatever into the modern lore and GW already did this.
    Post edited by SeanJeanquoi on
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 10,030
    I mean we can mass recruit engine of noobs and solar engines. I think crying about old one tech being plentiful is kinda useless.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • DerPhonixDerPhonix Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 539
    Nice work. Had no idea they had so much stuff from official sources. Definitively enough for a race pack.
  • mewade44mewade44 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,115
    Don't forget the Snu Snu!
  • ArtfactialArtfactial Registered Users Posts: 265
    edited August 2020
    I have not read it all but the first post alone gave me more information than I knew, hats of for a huge undertaking.
    I would love to have them and see a slight chance with Troy's inclusion, but don't have much hope.:)

    I'd fully trust CA to do them justice without the 40K influence and sex-objectivication of the source material.
  • endurendur Registered Users Posts: 3,923
    Really great posts.

    Just a comment about the 40k weaponry. Other factions had access to futuristic weaponry on an individual basis in 2e and 3e. For example, in the Realms of Chaos books for 3e, Chaos Champions could roll up random magic items, and some of the random magic items were 40k items.

    My guess is that any 8e version of amazons would not have 40k weaponry, just like current 8e chaos does not have 40k weaponry.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,641
    While I'm not interested in the Amazons at all, I do need to say that I appreciate the art selection.
    animacja-sygn-3.gif


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