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  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 7,317
    eumaies said:

    More specifically suggestionson the he:

    Noble chariots: -5 speed, -5MD.

    Lions chariots: -50 cost, -5 speed, -10 armour.

    Peclis: remove potion (overall or just on Phoenix) and revert to some version/concept of the old sword.

    I don’t think anyone uses Noble chariots seriously anymore. Not only eas their BvL removed, which was a big reason why people abused them, but also they have a new competitor now, which in their good matchups fares better. Not sure if based on this comment I should be assuming we’re playing the same patch.
    mightygloin_fan_1
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 5,582
    There is certainly room for tweaks but I can't say that healing is a crucial part of blob, you have as boring blobs with debuff stacking blob by de or summon/mortis stacking blob by skv. The problem goes beyond he healing. Vc and bret can do a little of birth, so can vp and tk. Even gs troll blob is a thing now....
  • MTechMTech Registered Users Posts: 576
    edited September 5
    eumaies said:

    More specifically suggestionson the he:

    Noble chariots: -5 speed, -5MD.

    Lions chariots: -50 cost, -5 speed, -10 armour.

    Peclis: remove potion (overall or just on Phoenix) and revert to some version/concept of the old sword.

    I wouldn't say that's enough WL and Lion chariots need to be put down to 20% missile resist it just doesn't make sense that the very lions that give the missile resist only have 20% but WL and Chariots are rocking 30%.
    And it would also help the people complaining about stone troll resist to look less hypocritical.

    Lions also deserve the treatment Squigherd got after release 82 speed is much too high for some fat lions and since chariot speed is the same as the beast/horse the Lion chariot would lose speed when Lions get adjusted.

    Noble may just do with a item overhaul.

    Removing Potion on peclis would just punish people who don't want to abuse his broken mount even if you just remove it on his mount or change it the problem stays the same, he should have never gotten this mount in the first place.




  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 8,126
    Lets all pretend ppl dont know how to run them at 42% missile resist
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  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 8,126
    edited September 5



    Is he really, hmm terror, high mass, ranged attack....yess his fair...... like always

    LOLLLLL high mass

    Elf math when 1 model > 3 model mass and disruption.

    Coz u like helf, other factions actually have to pay for what they get. Thats +$150 being a stupidly far worse garbage “chariot” than lion.

    But of coz lets just ignore the 378 dmg vs 320 (350)of doom. Oh and btw its 453 vs inf. A 40% more dmg. Not much really, just 35++% lol. 20% less hp is also trivially ignored.

    Doom is only 74, 104 on inf att on charge
    Lions sitting at 106 att or 131 att on charge

    Pretty trivial stuffs not much just 28 att difference and 2 more models

    Elfelfyesyes
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  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,815
    I don’t think cost increases are the best balancing on a unit in a healing roster. Making things more elite just makes it more incentive to only combo them with healing.

    Lion chariots are a neat design of a chariot that’s supposed to be weak to melee. I feel like yo could keep that character, make it a little cheaper, but then accentuate it’s weak side hence the armour debuff and speed debuff.
  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,815

    eumaies said:

    Analog said:

    yst said:


    - CW GW beg to differ
    - DoomWheel beg to differ

    Of coz they do
    -30% missile resist -5 speed
    +$50

    Doomwheels even worse, must be some joke
    -903 hp
    - 10 speed
    - 30% missile resist
    - 10 ld
    +$150
    One hella epic joke that one
    4.1k ap will rekt noobwheel, where u need more than 7000 ap to deal with white lions. Then of coz -10 speed -10 ld as if thats not bad enough they r +$150 more. Lion chariot makes doom flayers and wheel both looks like a $1000 unit
    Are you genuinely just picking out the stuff that makes the white lions look better?

    CW GW have
    +$50
    +1125hp
    +10 Armour
    +4 MD
    +4 WS (3 AP, 1 Standard)
    +8 Charge
    -30% missile resist
    -5 speed
    -Martial Prowess
    -Woodsman

    The comparison is far more fair in truth than you present it.
    Eh, he’s right about the doomwheel comparison though.
    Is he really, hmm terror, high mass, ranged attack....yess his fair...... like always
    Yeah even accounting for all that it’s a lopsided comparison.
  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,815
    Green0 said:

    eumaies said:

    More specifically suggestionson the he:

    Noble chariots: -5 speed, -5MD.

    Lions chariots: -50 cost, -5 speed, -10 armour.

    Peclis: remove potion (overall or just on Phoenix) and revert to some version/concept of the old sword.

    I don’t think anyone uses Noble chariots seriously anymore. Not only eas their BvL removed, which was a big reason why people abused them, but also they have a new competitor now, which in their good matchups fares better. Not sure if based on this comment I should be assuming we’re playing the same patch.
    They’re still a very strong and popular unit in many matchups. There’s no substitute for single entities when you want something not to die in Melee. They don’t need to be as good duelists as they are - they still dominate horse mount options but shouldn’t.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 5,582
    They dont dominate horse heroes, what do you mean by that?
  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,815

    There is certainly room for tweaks but I can't say that healing is a crucial part of blob, you have as boring blobs with debuff stacking blob by de or summon/mortis stacking blob by skv. The problem goes beyond he healing. Vc and bret can do a little of birth, so can vp and tk. Even gs troll blob is a thing now....

    Healing elite statted glass high mobility glass cannon units is the best return though. Hence I’m suggesting stat reductions (even with corresponding price reductions). High elf units are designed to have amazing stats but low hp, accentuating the reliance on healing and the payoff.
  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,815
    Analog said:

    eumaies said:

    Analog said:

    yst said:


    - CW GW beg to differ
    - DoomWheel beg to differ

    Of coz they do
    -30% missile resist -5 speed
    +$50

    Doomwheels even worse, must be some joke
    -903 hp
    - 10 speed
    - 30% missile resist
    - 10 ld
    +$150
    One hella epic joke that one
    4.1k ap will rekt noobwheel, where u need more than 7000 ap to deal with white lions. Then of coz -10 speed -10 ld as if thats not bad enough they r +$150 more. Lion chariot makes doom flayers and wheel both looks like a $1000 unit
    Are you genuinely just picking out the stuff that makes the white lions look better?

    CW GW have
    +$50
    +1125hp
    +10 Armour
    +4 MD
    +4 WS (3 AP, 1 Standard)
    +8 Charge
    -30% missile resist
    -5 speed
    -Martial Prowess
    -Woodsman

    The comparison is far more fair in truth than you present it.
    Eh, he’s right about the doomwheel comparison though.
    Difficult to fairly compare a SE to a multimodel unit i would have thought.

    I agree that Lion chariots are in need of nerfs. But this absolutely does not give you a pass to lie about other units to try and present the roster or other units as stronger than they are.
    Careful there. There’s a difference between making a case without presenting the other side of things and simply lying about a unit. Agree though it’s not helpful for the forum when people make bad faith arguments.
  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,815

    They dont dominate horse heroes, what do you mean by that?

    I mean their versatility let’s them play both roles. Not as a dedicated anti large but as a single entity that will perform well enough Vs enemy entities and cav while also being a standout anti infantry.

    Dark elf nobles on horse Vs high elf noble chariots - it’s a world of difference in performance and what they contribute to your army in practical terms.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 5,582
    Masters suck, especially on chariot because the model is too long for it to attack properly forward. All other single entity chariots work the same otherwise as far as I know, and noble horse is much better than noble chariots vs sems but not picked much because dragons exist.
  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,815

    Masters suck, especially on chariot because the model is too long for it to attack properly forward. All other single entity chariots work the same otherwise as far as I know, and noble horse is much better than noble chariots vs sems but not picked much because dragons exist.

    Masters are fine on horse.

    Nobles on chariot would be fine with less strong stats for duels which makes them all purpose.




  • kasunrathnatungakasunrathnatunga Registered Users Posts: 7,246
    eumaies said:

    Masters suck, especially on chariot because the model is too long for it to attack properly forward. All other single entity chariots work the same otherwise as far as I know, and noble horse is much better than noble chariots vs sems but not picked much because dragons exist.

    Masters are fine on horse.

    Nobles on chariot would be fine with less strong stats for duels which makes them all purpose.




    DE masters have absurd stats too, and helm of many eyes which make them on their own way better, and they have manticore mounts.

    only reason nobles are actually any strong is because they have healing and masters don't, if masters had healing well the story will change drastically.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • Loupi_Loupi_ Registered Users Posts: 2,172
    edited September 5

    eumaies said:

    Masters suck, especially on chariot because the model is too long for it to attack properly forward. All other single entity chariots work the same otherwise as far as I know, and noble horse is much better than noble chariots vs sems but not picked much because dragons exist.

    Masters are fine on horse.

    Nobles on chariot would be fine with less strong stats for duels which makes them all purpose.




    DE masters have absurd stats too, and helm of many eyes which make them on their own way better, and they have manticore mounts.

    only reason nobles are actually any strong is because they have healing and masters don't, if masters had healing well the story will change drastically.
    they do not have manticore mounts
  • Noob_for_LifeNoob_for_Life Registered Users Posts: 383

    eumaies said:

    Masters suck, especially on chariot because the model is too long for it to attack properly forward. All other single entity chariots work the same otherwise as far as I know, and noble horse is much better than noble chariots vs sems but not picked much because dragons exist.

    Masters are fine on horse.

    Nobles on chariot would be fine with less strong stats for duels which makes them all purpose.




    DE masters have absurd stats too, and helm of many eyes which make them on their own way better, and they have manticore mounts.

    only reason nobles are actually any strong is because they have healing and masters don't, if masters had healing well the story will change drastically.
    They don't have manticore mounts, also yes healing is part of why nobles are stronger but Martial Prowess is also a big part.
  • kasunrathnatungakasunrathnatunga Registered Users Posts: 7,246
    Loupi_ said:

    eumaies said:

    Masters suck, especially on chariot because the model is too long for it to attack properly forward. All other single entity chariots work the same otherwise as far as I know, and noble horse is much better than noble chariots vs sems but not picked much because dragons exist.

    Masters are fine on horse.

    Nobles on chariot would be fine with less strong stats for duels which makes them all purpose.




    DE masters have absurd stats too, and helm of many eyes which make them on their own way better, and they have manticore mounts.

    only reason nobles are actually any strong is because they have healing and masters don't, if masters had healing well the story will change drastically.
    they do not have manticore mounts
    wait they don't? didn't they have it ?
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 8,126

    wait they don't? didn't they have it ?

    Pegs
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  • kasunrathnatungakasunrathnatunga Registered Users Posts: 7,246
    yap everyone is right they don't have manticore just peg, with BvL
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,815

    yap everyone is right they don't have manticore just peg, with BvL

    it's a nice unit. Now if the faction had healing, they would use units like that alot more...
  • kasunrathnatungakasunrathnatunga Registered Users Posts: 7,246
    eumaies said:

    yap everyone is right they don't have manticore just peg, with BvL

    it's a nice unit. Now if the faction had healing, they would use units like that alot more...
    in lore they can technically use lore of life so .

    but do you think DE has inherent design that requires healing like HE and WE
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 5,582
    I don't understand the obsession with healing. Use your own support, profit.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 27,092
    Here's the difference between Noble on Chariot and the Doomwheel.

    If you make mistakes with the Doomwheel you get punished for it.

    If you make mistakes with the Noble on Chariot, you just heal him up and the other guy gets punished instead because he made most probably a very uneven trade (nets, ammo, own WoM vs just WoM),

    Healing on SEs must be nerfed because it can't be that good play is punished and bad play rewarded.

  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,815

    I don't understand the obsession with healing. Use your own support, profit.

    Exactly what I said. It encourages players to play more single entity tactics.
  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,815

    eumaies said:

    yap everyone is right they don't have manticore just peg, with BvL

    it's a nice unit. Now if the faction had healing, they would use units like that alot more...
    in lore they can technically use lore of life so .

    but do you think DE has inherent design that requires healing like HE and WE
    They tend to have more punch - kill faster rather than rebirth kind of approach. But when you see a faction with low Hp able to work around it it speaks to how high elves could play with less of an emphasis on healing. They have lots of tools now.
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 7,317
    eumaies said:

    I don't understand the obsession with healing. Use your own support, profit.

    Exactly what I said. It encourages players to play more single entity tactics.
    according to this logic, Norsca, Greenskins, Lizardmen should not be SEM driven cuz no healing but experience suggests you’re wrong.
    mightygloin_fan_1
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 5,582

    Here's the difference between Noble on Chariot and the Doomwheel.

    If you make mistakes with the Doomwheel you get punished for it.

    If you make mistakes with the Noble on Chariot, you just heal him up and the other guy gets punished instead because he made most probably a very uneven trade (nets, ammo, own WoM vs just WoM),

    Healing on SEs must be nerfed because it can't be that good play is punished and bad play rewarded.

    That's exactly how it doesn't work.
  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,815
    Green0 said:

    eumaies said:

    I don't understand the obsession with healing. Use your own support, profit.

    Exactly what I said. It encourages players to play more single entity tactics.
    according to this logic, Norsca, Greenskins, Lizardmen should not be SEM driven cuz no healing but experience suggests you’re wrong.
    obviously giving single entities 10k hp is a decent substitute for healing. I don't mind single entities performing consistent with their cost.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 27,092

    Here's the difference between Noble on Chariot and the Doomwheel.

    If you make mistakes with the Doomwheel you get punished for it.

    If you make mistakes with the Noble on Chariot, you just heal him up and the other guy gets punished instead because he made most probably a very uneven trade (nets, ammo, own WoM vs just WoM),

    Healing on SEs must be nerfed because it can't be that good play is punished and bad play rewarded.

    That's exactly how it doesn't work.
    That's exactly how it works.

This discussion has been closed.