Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

Wood Elf Spites

ErathilErathil Registered Users Posts: 1,367
There's been a lot of speculation about the new Wood Elf DLC and units it could add. The Wood Elves have just about everything in their most recent codex, save a couple character options, so we've been thinking back and stretching to include things like Zoats, Unicorns, animal herds, Incarnate Elementals, and even the old forest-chariot.

But I wanted to talk about Spites. These are the sort of faerie-spirits of Athel Loren, small and shifting magical creatures that frequently fight with the elves and the forest spirits.

Now, in their sixth edition book Wood Elves had an entire section on various Spites units and characters could take. They were treated as a unique sort of equipment field. They never had a dedicated model... but they did have loads of models. Just about every single wood elf kit came with some extra bits for spites, so there are dozens of figures of these guys floating around.

I think Spites are the best angle for additional units. There are two good approaches; Spite variants of Forest Spirit units, and dedicated Spite Swarms. These are both good options, but here are the Spites and their effects listed in their last book:
  • A Blight of Terrors: Cause Terror
  • A Befuddlement of Mischiefs: A bound spell that caused Stupidity, effectively lowering movement speed
  • A Murder of Spites: A swarm of nasty spirits that give their unit extra attacks with magical and poisonous qualities
  • A Muster of Malevolents: A swarm of nasty spirits that give their unit extra short-ranged shooting attacks, with ranged magical and poisonous projectiles.
  • An Annoyance of Netlings: Played with the character Dueling mechanic, and reduced the enemy champion's chance to hit (so... sort of a melee attack debuff on characters)
  • A Resplendance of Luminescents: Made the character they joined attacks magical
  • A Lamentation of Despairs: A bound spell that did damage to any targeted unit, but with only one use
  • A Cluster of Radiants: Helped casters dispell enemy spells, not a mechanic in this game
  • A Pageant of Shrikes: A swarm that gave the character they joined an extra, long-range sniping attack.
In the simplest form, there could be Forest Spirit unit variants with certain Spites, like Wood Elf arrows:
  • Drayds (Lamentation of Despairs): Gives a dryad unit a limited-use long-ranged bound magic-missile spell.
  • Dryads (Murder of Spites): A dryad unit with an extra magical effect that does passive poison damage to enemies they are in melee with.
  • Treekin (Muster of Malevolents): Treekin with little forest spirits perched on their branches with additional short-ranged shooting attacks, like the zombie gunners on Vampire Coast monsters.
  • Treekin (Annoyance of Netlings): Treekin with an extra limited-use ability that gives nearby enemies a melee attack debuff.
  • Treeman (Pageant of Shrikes): Treeman with an extra long-range passive magical attack, like the gunners on Vampire Coast monsters, only with a longer effective range.
  • Treeman (Murder of Spites): Treeman with a passive damage aura that does magical poison attacks to nearby enemies when in melee.
Alternatively, CA could try making Spites into a Swarm unit. They've avoided swarms in the past, but they may be willing to revisit them now, given how much the scope of the series has grown. I imagine Swarm units could be implemented as slow-moving, low entity monstrous units with high melee defense and physical protection, low melee attack and damage, and special abilities including a vulnerability to charge and fire attacks. Their primary value would be in stalling melee infantry and projecting magical effects.
  • Murder of Spites: Melee oriented Spite Swarm with high melee defense that has a magical aura that causes damage to nearby enemies while in combat.
  • Befuddlement of Mischiefs: A fast-moving support-oriented Spite Swarm that slows nearby enemies.
  • Resplendance of Luminscents: A support-oriented Spite Swarm that empowers allies, giving them extra melee attack and defense, and maybe magical attacks.
  • Lamentation of Despairs: An offensive-support Spite Swarm that debuffs nearby enemy units, with a limited use magic-missle bound spell.
  • Blight of Terrors: An offensive support Spite Swarm with Stalk, the Terror special rule, and a limited-use ability that reduces enemy leadership.

Comments

  • lucibuislucibuis Registered Users Posts: 7,099
    The problem with adding spites as variants is the need to create several new model variants, easier to just make them a unit
    Ariel only, no fads allowed.

  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 14,872
    edited September 2020
    And I think that spites won't be units at all.

    Maybe an ability but I don't think they'll be units.
    Furthermore, I consider that Daemon Prince must be removed.
  • ErathilErathil Registered Users Posts: 1,367
    They have a few advantages. As a unit, the same basic model / rigging could be altered to create multiple variants pretty easily. As unit variants to existing units, there wouldn't need to be much additional work on the models and animations. And they lend themselves to augmenting the Wood Elf roster as it already is, either way.
  • Loupi_Loupi_ Registered Users Posts: 3,424
    yeah abilites and bound spells is the most likely way. Lamentation of despair is already done this, so any more spites would likely follow that idea
  • lucibuislucibuis Registered Users Posts: 7,099
    Loupi_ said:

    yeah abilites and bound spells is the most likely way. Lamentation of despair is already done this, so any more spites would likely follow that idea

    If they don’t need any animation and are just spells, then yes
    Ariel only, no fads allowed.

  • Loupi_Loupi_ Registered Users Posts: 3,424
    lucibuis said:

    Loupi_ said:

    yeah abilites and bound spells is the most likely way. Lamentation of despair is already done this, so any more spites would likely follow that idea

    If they don’t need any animation and are just spells, then yes
    yes i think its best to keep expectations low
  • Lord_DistamorfinLord_Distamorfin Registered Users Posts: 1,331
    I'd rather see Spites implemented the same way they were in 6th edition: as magic items for units and characters. It would be more interesting to be able to kit out your army with Spites than to just have another unit.
    It could even be another use for Amber. Not all of these could necessarily be translated 1-to-1 with the tabletop, but most have an equivalent effect in Total War. They could also be visually represented simply by surrounding the unit in different colored orbs of light, like Navi from Legend of Zelda.

    - Blight of Terror: gives the unit Terror
    - Befuddlement of Mischiefs: grants a magic missile spell and causes Stupidity (can be reinterpreted for Total War as causing Fear, Rampage, etc. Could also be made only available to characters).
    - Murder of Spites: gives the unit extra attacks (melee attack buff) and poison
    - Muster of Malevolents: grants a ranged attack dealing magic and poison damage
    - Annoyance of Netlings: enemies attacking this unit only hit on 6 (either a small aoe melee attack debuff or a melee defense buff)
    - Resplendence of Luminescents: grants magic attacks
    - Lamentation of Despairs: grants a single-target spell requiring the target to pass a leadership test or suffer automatic wounds (could essentially be turned into a Spirit Leech bound spell)
    - Cluster of Radiants: adds a dispel dice (as dispelling is not in the game in any form, add magic resist. Treeman Ancients and Branchwraiths only)
    - Pageant of Shrikes: grants a ranged attack
  • ErathilErathil Registered Users Posts: 1,367

    I'd rather see Spites implemented the same way they were in 6th edition: as magic items for units and characters. It would be more interesting to be able to kit out your army with Spites than to just have another unit.
    It could even be another use for Amber. Not all of these could necessarily be translated 1-to-1 with the tabletop, but most have an equivalent effect in Total War. They could also be visually represented simply by surrounding the unit in different colored orbs of light, like Navi from Legend of Zelda.

    - Blight of Terror: gives the unit Terror
    - Befuddlement of Mischiefs: grants a magic missile spell and causes Stupidity (can be reinterpreted for Total War as causing Fear, Rampage, etc. Could also be made only available to characters).
    - Murder of Spites: gives the unit extra attacks (melee attack buff) and poison
    - Muster of Malevolents: grants a ranged attack dealing magic and poison damage
    - Annoyance of Netlings: enemies attacking this unit only hit on 6 (either a small aoe melee attack debuff or a melee defense buff)
    - Resplendence of Luminescents: grants magic attacks
    - Lamentation of Despairs: grants a single-target spell requiring the target to pass a leadership test or suffer automatic wounds (could essentially be turned into a Spirit Leech bound spell)
    - Cluster of Radiants: adds a dispel dice (as dispelling is not in the game in any form, add magic resist. Treeman Ancients and Branchwraiths only)
    - Pageant of Shrikes: grants a ranged attack

    I thought about this. It could be neat to see Spites as a sort of Wood Elf interpretation of the Greenskin Scrap mechanic.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 4,771
    edited September 2020
    The thing is, the art and descriptions of Spites in that same army book vary widely. Some Spites are little glowing balls of light. Some are elf-like imps. Some are large insects or owls. Some are human-sized crones with twigs for hair.

    It's easy to say Spites are too small to be units, and would work better as spells since swarms aren't a thing in game, but given a wide range of sizes and shapes are inherent to Spites as a concept, CA has a lot of leeway in how to implement them. Making them a little bigger, the size of goblins or fell bats, would not be that difficult nor would it be especially lore-breaking.

    Their unique appearances also mean that CA could potentially go pretty crazy with their visual designs and models. I think it's not only possible that Spites make it into the game as units, but that they may even get the lion's share of the animation budget, and function as the Wood Elf centerpiece unit.

    Now, this certainly isn't written in stone. But if I were CA and I was looking for unit options that are more than just variants of existing units, with a distinctive appearance and unique mechanics, the Spites are one of the places I would look first.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 14,872
    edited September 2020

    The thing is, the art and descriptions of Spites in that same army book vary widely. Some Spites are little glowing balls of light. Some are elf-like imps. Some are large insects or owls. Some are human-sized crones with twigs for hair.

    It's easy to say Spites are too small to be units, and would work better as spells since swarms aren't a thing in game, but given a wide range of sizes and shapes are inherent to Spites as a concept, CA has a lot of leeway in how to implement them. Making them a little bigger, the size of goblins or fell bats, would not be that difficult nor would it be especially lore-breaking.

    But they do appear on the models already. If we were to expect something I wouldn't really expect CA to go and make them much more since they can be turned into an ability/item and focus a game mechanic around that.

    Their unique appearances also mean that CA could potentially go pretty crazy with their visual designs and models. I think it's not only possible that Spites make it into the game as units, but that they may even get the lion's share of the animation budget, and function as the Wood Elf centerpiece unit.

    Nnnno. With WE already having several tree-based units this wouldn't really work as a centerpiece. In fact, I find the idea of CA "going crazy" with what had appeared on models and would effectively be infantry is going a bit too far, which also discounts the idea of them being centerpiece. It would really be a waste for such a basic thing.

    Now, this certainly isn't written in stone. But if I were CA and I was looking for unit options that are more than just variants of existing units, with a distinctive appearance and unique mechanics, the Spites are one of the places I would look first.

    You described Zoats, dude. Which makes it strange you deny them.

    You also described Incarnate Elementals, specifically the Beasts variety. Especially as their elemental nature could lead to different mechanics.
    Furthermore, I consider that Daemon Prince must be removed.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 4,771
    Crossil said:

    The thing is, the art and descriptions of Spites in that same army book vary widely. Some Spites are little glowing balls of light. Some are elf-like imps. Some are large insects or owls. Some are human-sized crones with twigs for hair.

    It's easy to say Spites are too small to be units, and would work better as spells since swarms aren't a thing in game, but given a wide range of sizes and shapes are inherent to Spites as a concept, CA has a lot of leeway in how to implement them. Making them a little bigger, the size of goblins or fell bats, would not be that difficult nor would it be especially lore-breaking.

    But they do appear on the models already. If we were to expect something I wouldn't really expect CA to go and make them much more since they can be turned into an ability/item and focus a game mechanic around that.

    Their unique appearances also mean that CA could potentially go pretty crazy with their visual designs and models. I think it's not only possible that Spites make it into the game as units, but that they may even get the lion's share of the animation budget, and function as the Wood Elf centerpiece unit.

    Nnnno. With WE already having several tree-based units this wouldn't really work as a centerpiece. In fact, I find the idea of CA "going crazy" with what had appeared on models and would effectively be infantry is going a bit too far, which also discounts the idea of them being centerpiece. It would really be a waste for such a basic thing.

    Now, this certainly isn't written in stone. But if I were CA and I was looking for unit options that are more than just variants of existing units, with a distinctive appearance and unique mechanics, the Spites are one of the places I would look first.

    You described Zoats, dude. Which makes it strange you deny them.

    You also described Incarnate Elementals, specifically the Beasts variety. Especially as their elemental nature could lead to different mechanics.
    We'll see in due time. I wouldn't count Spites out if I were you, though.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 15,316
    I think that Spites should be both units and mechanics. Considering they can assume whatever shape and form they wish, there is no problem with making them Harpy sized.

    Their models:

    TT:




    Chaosbane's rendition of TT:



    Attached to Ceithin-Har:



    Attached to Willow Rosebark:




  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 4,771
    In addition to those models posted above, here is how the Spites were represented in Warhammer art, which showcases their range of sizes and shapes:








    First one is from the WHRPG, all the ones in the middle are from 6th Edition, and the last one is one of the only depictions of Spites kept in for 8th edition.
  • lucibuislucibuis Registered Users Posts: 7,099

    I think that Spites should be both units and mechanics. Considering they can assume whatever shape and form they wish, there is no problem with making them Harpy sized.

    Their models:

    TT:




    Chaosbane's rendition of TT:



    Attached to Ceithin-Har:



    Attached to Willow Rosebark:




    Call the abilities spites and units fairy dragons
    Ariel only, no fads allowed.

  • RomeoRejectRomeoReject Registered Users Posts: 1,907
    Like others have said, given how vague Spites true sizes are, I don't think swarms are necessary. It would be easy to make them as big as Goblins or Skavenslaves, without them seeming ridiculous.
  • ArsenicArsenic Registered Users Posts: 7,349
    If they're doing Ariel, then the model can do double-duty judging by some of those Spite images, and we all know CA does enjoy that.

    Never heard of Willow Rosebark, was it meant to be a pun on the Buffy character?
    For in spite of all temptations. To belong to other nations. He remains an Englishman.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 4,771
    edited September 2020
    Arsenic said:

    If they're doing Ariel, then the model can do double-duty judging by some of those Spite images, and we all know CA does enjoy that.

    Never heard of Willow Rosebark, was it meant to be a pun on the Buffy character?

    It's a Bloodbowl character, she's not from WHFB. The models do give a pretty decent representation of WHFB Spites though, they're essentially just more detailed versions of the little Spites that came with 6th edition Wood Elf kits.
  • Cryptic_FreezeCryptic_Freeze Registered Users Posts: 501
    edited September 2020

    In addition to those models posted above, here is how the Spites were represented in Warhammer art, which showcases their range of sizes and shapes:








    First one is from the WHRPG, all the ones in the middle are from 6th Edition, and the last one is one of the only depictions of Spites kept in for 8th edition.

    I like these depictions more than the more lighthearted gremlin things, they look more twisted and feral. 1-2 spite units would perfectly go along with Drycha and an Incarnate Elemental of Beasts.
Sign In or Register to comment.