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Total War Troy: Warhammer II game files found possible ties to Beastmen

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  • LunaticprinceLunaticprince Registered Users Posts: 5,794
    Schub said:

    ArneSo said:

    Marker said:

    The DLC will be WE VS SKAVEN WITH A WE FLC AND A SKAVEN/WE HERO WITH NEW UNITS.

    This has to do with the Savage edition and the fact that the BM are Next in line against a DE FLC with hopefully the Dwarves.

    WoC / Norsca are probably saved for part Three since they can make an Appearance on the game three Map.

    They already announced game two race vs WE and WE FLC.

    BM not getting a LP after WE getting one would be ridiculous and is unacceptable.
    And yet very possible!

    In April (I think) Grace said there were two DLCs left, G & P and the WE one. So some people think WH 3 was delayed and now we get a third Lord Pack. After all the years the BM got ignored they will get the DLC spot which only may exist because of COVID? Can’t imagine that!

    I think it is the same as with Chaos Warriors. They decided esrly they will fix them wir WH 3.

    Again: if there is another DLC after the WE one the chances are high it only exits due to COVID. And I think the plans for a VM rework are older than COVID

    Edit: Also I think the hord mechanic needs a complete overhaul and we will get it with game 3.
    I kinda absolute disagree.

    CA never say anything from a magic horde overhaul.

    Just because Mono-gods or Doc come not means now they gonna be horde faction.

    But lets say is demons, the demons function completely different then these two, i believe in a bm rework after the WE.



  • RomeoRejectRomeoReject Registered Users Posts: 1,907
    edited September 2020
    Double post.
    Post edited by RomeoReject on
  • RomeoRejectRomeoReject Registered Users Posts: 1,907
    Schub said:

    ArneSo said:

    Marker said:

    The DLC will be WE VS SKAVEN WITH A WE FLC AND A SKAVEN/WE HERO WITH NEW UNITS.

    This has to do with the Savage edition and the fact that the BM are Next in line against a DE FLC with hopefully the Dwarves.

    WoC / Norsca are probably saved for part Three since they can make an Appearance on the game three Map.

    They already announced game two race vs WE and WE FLC.

    BM not getting a LP after WE getting one would be ridiculous and is unacceptable.
    And yet very possible!

    In April (I think) Grace said there were two DLCs left, G & P and the WE one. So some people think WH 3 was delayed and now we get a third Lord Pack. After all the years the BM got ignored they will get the DLC spot which only may exist because of COVID? Can’t imagine that!

    I think it is the same as with Chaos Warriors. They decided esrly they will fix them wir WH 3.

    Again: if there is another DLC after the WE one the chances are high it only exits due to COVID. And I think the plans for a VM rework are older than COVID

    Edit: Also I think the hord mechanic needs a complete overhaul and we will get it with game 3.


    Grace did not say that. Grace said they planned to do two more DLCs at that time, although that was subject to change. She certainly didn't say G&P was part of those two, and in fact, I suspect it was not part of those two, given that G&P had already been shown off when she said that. So right off the bat, there's the very real possibility that the Beastmen's "slot" was always in the running, even from way back then.

    I personally believe that was indeed the case. Way back at the start of the year, in CA's Twitch Stream, one of the things mentioned was a new start position for the Beastmen near Naggarond. Then, the last two DLCs have both been designed to account for the Beastmen. For all this year, the Beastmen SteamDB entry has been getting modifications, unlike almost every other DLC. Then there's the recently announced Savage Edition. I think CA has all but confirmed the Beastmen are getting something in the very near future, and that this hasn't been some last-second change of plans, this has been in the hopper for quite some time.

    As for the Warriors of Chaos: I don't know where you got that idea from. A lot of us have speculated the WoC might get updated in Game Three, but CA has never said that. Same thing goes for the Horde mechanic. It is used by two races and a single extra Lord, but the latter has already been updated to a new style. If the Beastmen's awful campaign experience is likely being looked at, why not go ahead and move over some of the fixes from their campaign to the Warriors? I see no reason why the Beastmen vs Dark Elves Lord Pack couldn't include a Start Position update for Warriors, if not a full on FLC Lord for the Warriors.
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 32,648
    edited September 2020
    Schub said:

    ArneSo said:

    Marker said:

    The DLC will be WE VS SKAVEN WITH A WE FLC AND A SKAVEN/WE HERO WITH NEW UNITS.

    This has to do with the Savage edition and the fact that the BM are Next in line against a DE FLC with hopefully the Dwarves.

    WoC / Norsca are probably saved for part Three since they can make an Appearance on the game three Map.

    They already announced game two race vs WE and WE FLC.

    BM not getting a LP after WE getting one would be ridiculous and is unacceptable.
    And yet very possible!

    In April (I think) Grace said there were two DLCs left, G & P and the WE one. So some people think WH 3 was delayed and now we get a third Lord Pack. After all the years the BM got ignored they will get the DLC spot which only may exist because of COVID? Can’t imagine that!

    I think it is the same as with Chaos Warriors. They decided esrly they will fix them wir WH 3.

    Again: if there is another DLC after the WE one the chances are high it only exits due to COVID. And I think the plans for a VM rework are older than COVID

    Edit: Also I think the hord mechanic needs a complete overhaul and we will get it with game 3.
    Wrong, Grace said they planned to do 2 more but that is subject to change, which means with the delay of WH3s announcement and the potential success of the WE LP, a BM LP Next is not that unrealistic.
    Post edited by ArneSo on
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • SchubSchub Registered Users Posts: 1,256





    Grace did not say that. Grace said they planned to do two more DLCs at that time, although that was subject to change. She certainly didn't say G&P was part of those two, and in fact, I suspect it was not part of those two, given that G&P had already been shown off when she said that. So right off the bat, there's the very real possibility that the Beastmen's "slot" was always in the running, even from way back then.

    I personally believe that was indeed the case. Way back at the start of the year, in CA's Twitch Stream, one of the things mentioned was a new start position for the Beastmen near Naggarond. Then, the last two DLCs have both been designed to account for the Beastmen. For all this year, the Beastmen SteamDB entry has been getting modifications, unlike almost every other DLC. Then there's the recently announced Savage Edition. I think CA has all but confirmed the Beastmen are getting something in the very near future, and that this hasn't been some last-second change of plans, this has been in the hopper for quite some time.

    As for the Warriors of Chaos: I don't know where you got that idea from. A lot of us have speculated the WoC might get updated in Game Three, but CA has never said that. Same thing goes for the Horde mechanic. It is used by two races and a single extra Lord, but the latter has already been updated to a new style. If the Beastmen's awful campaign experience is likely being looked at, why not go ahead and move over some of the fixes from their campaign to the Warriors? I see no reason why the Beastmen vs Dark Elves Lord Pack couldn't include a Start Position update for Warriors, if not a full on FLC Lord for the Warriors.

    https://i.redd.it/1x2qcrs7ats41.png
    This post is from April 14. Warden & Paunch trailer was shown May 7 so Warden & Paunch was neither announced nor teased. We knew one thing: GS will get their rework next. So we all guessed HE vs GS will be the next dlc But - and this is very important - from CAs point of view it was not official.
    Yes the 'development is subject to change' statement can be read as 'two or more' but whenever a Gaming Studio calls something 'subject to change' it is mostly negative like 'we plan to do but we can't promise'. I always thought that it is possible that thanks to COVID and working at home CA may decide that the next dlc could be the last one.


    The Naggarond statement from the stream...I thought the community came to the conclusion that they were talking about the 'beasts' on the map like you see them in Lustria. I cannot remember that they ever confirmed on a stream that the Beastmen will get a starting position in Naggarond. Do you have a source?

    Yeah the diplomacy lines for the BM. That could be a hint. But in this case Warriors of Chaos will also receive a WH 2 DLC because they got lines too.

    The Beastmen SteamDB Depot. How do you know which one is for the beastmen? They are all named like trees of birds, do not remember right now. And the Savage edition...what brought us the Dark Gods edition for Norsca? Ah yes! Nothing...


    Original Warriors of Chaos should not have become playable in game 1 because CA said that 'Game 3 will show us the true horrors of Chaos'. One **** later we got the wonderful WoC DLC...so I think that CA always planned that WoC will shine with WH 3.

    So it is not a secret that the horde mechanic is garbage and CA stated in one of their AMAs on reddit that they know that. They tried to improve it with Nakais faction and it is up to you to decide whether that worked or not. But why did they not take these changes for BM and WoC? Cannot be a money thing because skaven got their Undercity (vampire cove) mechanic for free too. So I think they have bigger plans for the horde mechanic and I think they just cannot improve it with WH 2 so easily but with a new and enhanced game 3...hm...maybe?


    And one last thing from the latest dev blog:
    Is this all too confusing? Don’t worry, we’ll be announcing it properly soon and we’ll have plenty of very clear info on what you get depending on which games you own. We hope it works, and you get a kick out of it because then it means we’ll be allowed to do it again. And we really want to add everything we can to Total War: WARHAMMER.

    Lets say this is not only marketing bla bla and the truth. In this case CA will look if 'DLC for DLC' works. So they have to wait and look how the WE DLC will sell. Then they will decide to do it again or not.
    'Ah ok the WE dlc did not sell very good...ok lets stop the BM dlc and do...nothing? Wait why are we resources not assigned to another project already?'
    'Ah ok the WE dlc sold very good! Hurry, hurry! We have to start and finish the BM dlc before WH 3 and the pre order are released'.

    If this is not the last dlc then the next has to be already in (pre) production. There is no chance that they will wait until they know how good or bad the next one sells. This would be very bad project planning. Remember in one of their 'different teams' statement they told us that the Fantasy DLC team has the same size as the original Rome 1 team. You have to plan in advance (6 - 12 month) what this people will do otherwise you burn a lot of money. Yes there can always be a situation were you have to discard your plans but want to avoid that at all costs.


    Sigmar protect us all...


  • RomeoRejectRomeoReject Registered Users Posts: 1,907
    Schub said:






    Grace did not say that. Grace said they planned to do two more DLCs at that time, although that was subject to change. She certainly didn't say G&P was part of those two, and in fact, I suspect it was not part of those two, given that G&P had already been shown off when she said that. So right off the bat, there's the very real possibility that the Beastmen's "slot" was always in the running, even from way back then.

    I personally believe that was indeed the case. Way back at the start of the year, in CA's Twitch Stream, one of the things mentioned was a new start position for the Beastmen near Naggarond. Then, the last two DLCs have both been designed to account for the Beastmen. For all this year, the Beastmen SteamDB entry has been getting modifications, unlike almost every other DLC. Then there's the recently announced Savage Edition. I think CA has all but confirmed the Beastmen are getting something in the very near future, and that this hasn't been some last-second change of plans, this has been in the hopper for quite some time.

    As for the Warriors of Chaos: I don't know where you got that idea from. A lot of us have speculated the WoC might get updated in Game Three, but CA has never said that. Same thing goes for the Horde mechanic. It is used by two races and a single extra Lord, but the latter has already been updated to a new style. If the Beastmen's awful campaign experience is likely being looked at, why not go ahead and move over some of the fixes from their campaign to the Warriors? I see no reason why the Beastmen vs Dark Elves Lord Pack couldn't include a Start Position update for Warriors, if not a full on FLC Lord for the Warriors.

    https://i.redd.it/1x2qcrs7ats41.png
    This post is from April 14. Warden & Paunch trailer was shown May 7 so Warden & Paunch was neither announced nor teased. We knew one thing: GS will get their rework next. So we all guessed HE vs GS will be the next dlc But - and this is very important - from CAs point of view it was not official.
    Yes the 'development is subject to change' statement can be read as 'two or more' but whenever a Gaming Studio calls something 'subject to change' it is mostly negative like 'we plan to do but we can't promise'. I always thought that it is possible that thanks to COVID and working at home CA may decide that the next dlc could be the last one.


    The Naggarond statement from the stream...I thought the community came to the conclusion that they were talking about the 'beasts' on the map like you see them in Lustria. I cannot remember that they ever confirmed on a stream that the Beastmen will get a starting position in Naggarond. Do you have a source?

    Yeah the diplomacy lines for the BM. That could be a hint. But in this case Warriors of Chaos will also receive a WH 2 DLC because they got lines too.

    The Beastmen SteamDB Depot. How do you know which one is for the beastmen? They are all named like trees of birds, do not remember right now. And the Savage edition...what brought us the Dark Gods edition for Norsca? Ah yes! Nothing...


    Original Warriors of Chaos should not have become playable in game 1 because CA said that 'Game 3 will show us the true horrors of Chaos'. One **** later we got the wonderful WoC DLC...so I think that CA always planned that WoC will shine with WH 3.

    So it is not a secret that the horde mechanic is garbage and CA stated in one of their AMAs on reddit that they know that. They tried to improve it with Nakais faction and it is up to you to decide whether that worked or not. But why did they not take these changes for BM and WoC? Cannot be a money thing because skaven got their Undercity (vampire cove) mechanic for free too. So I think they have bigger plans for the horde mechanic and I think they just cannot improve it with WH 2 so easily but with a new and enhanced game 3...hm...maybe?


    And one last thing from the latest dev blog:
    Is this all too confusing? Don’t worry, we’ll be announcing it properly soon and we’ll have plenty of very clear info on what you get depending on which games you own. We hope it works, and you get a kick out of it because then it means we’ll be allowed to do it again. And we really want to add everything we can to Total War: WARHAMMER.

    Lets say this is not only marketing bla bla and the truth. In this case CA will look if 'DLC for DLC' works. So they have to wait and look how the WE DLC will sell. Then they will decide to do it again or not.
    'Ah ok the WE dlc did not sell very good...ok lets stop the BM dlc and do...nothing? Wait why are we resources not assigned to another project already?'
    'Ah ok the WE dlc sold very good! Hurry, hurry! We have to start and finish the BM dlc before WH 3 and the pre order are released'.

    If this is not the last dlc then the next has to be already in (pre) production. There is no chance that they will wait until they know how good or bad the next one sells. This would be very bad project planning. Remember in one of their 'different teams' statement they told us that the Fantasy DLC team has the same size as the original Rome 1 team. You have to plan in advance (6 - 12 month) what this people will do otherwise you burn a lot of money. Yes there can always be a situation were you have to discard your plans but want to avoid that at all costs.


    Ah fair enough, you're right. We knew the Greenskins were getting an update given the "Bring On the Waagh" hint, but it hadn't been officially shown off yet. Even still: We knew there was a DLC already there, and she still never answered people when they asked if that included the Grim and the Paunch. Again, even before the leaks, I still figured we were due for two more, given the fact there's a single faction not at six Legendary Lords. Even if we assume that at the time Grace meant there's only one more pack after the Greenskins (And I still don't believe that to be the case at all), that still seems irrelevant. The plan is pretty clearly to do something for the Beastmen, and appears to be have been the plan for a long while now.

    Source for the Beastmen is at the 46 minute mark of the video. Note, it is distinctly about a start position for the Beastmen, and not about generic beasts on the map: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/261562/so-there-was-a-ca-wh-stream-on-the-26th-with-a-lot-of-info-and-teases-on-the-future

    Again, yeah, I agree with the assessment. I think the Warriors will also end up with something from all this, whether it's just hand-me-downs from the Beastmen, a start position or something else. CA wouldn't waste the effort if they weren't planning on using the lines.

    It's incredibly easy to find the SteamDB entries after they launch. Here's the Beastmen entry, it was updated just ten days ago, you'll notice: https://steamdb.info/app/404012/
    I have no idea what you mean about Norsca though, sorry.

    Warriors of Chaos didn't come one year later? They were a launch race (The preorder bonus for the first game, in fact).

    Why did they not change the Horde mechanics for two factions that weren't in the campaign at the time, had nothing to do with the DLC at the time, weren't being reworked at that time, were both DLC factions before they ever attempted DLC for DLC, and do them all at the same time as a new, completely untested method of updating the mechanic? Do you truly need an answer to why that's a terrible idea in like fourteen different ways?

    It's no secret that CA is always working on the next DLC while the current one is being worked on - it's how we get hints as to what the next DLC is going to be each time. Of course the next DLC is in pre-production - that's what this entire thread is about. It just seems overwhelmingly likely that the next DLC is for the Beastmen and/or Warriors of Chaos.
  • SchubSchub Registered Users Posts: 1,256
    Steamdb: also Bretonnia and Grombrindal had an update 9 days ago for example. I think every WH 1 DLC package got an update.

    I was referring to the WH 2 depots. They have mysterious names. Nutcracker for example might be the one for the next dlc.

    Naggarond tease: unfortunately I can’t watch the twitch stream right now :(.

    Never said WoC came one year later, did I?
    How I remember the timeline:
    - we got informed WoC will be an ai faction an not playable
    - Reason: CA spares them for WH 3 which will ‚show us the True Horrors of Chaos‘
    - Community riots
    - CA decides WoC will be a pre order faction
    - Community riots again (WoC are an important faction and should be a core race)
    - CA decides the pre order dlc will be free for one additional week after WH 1 launch if you buy the main game in this time

    Unfortunately I have no time to search for all the sources and so my arguments are kind of weak.

    To be clear: I‘m waiting for a BM and WoC rework since there release. I am disappointed that it takes so long because there campaigns were ok in WH 1 but are terrible in WH2. But by now I think there best possible rework is with Game 3 and all improvements the game will have. Also the campaign maps (vortex!) get really really crowded.

    But if I am wrong and we will get a BM dlc in game 2 I am on with this :) even if I am getting bored with WH 2 and can’t wait for WH 3 :D.
    Sigmar protect us all...


  • RomeoRejectRomeoReject Registered Users Posts: 1,907
    Schub said:

    Steamdb: also Bretonnia and Grombrindal had an update 9 days ago for example. I think every WH 1 DLC package got an update.

    I was referring to the WH 2 depots. They have mysterious names. Nutcracker for example might be the one for the next dlc.

    Naggarond tease: unfortunately I can’t watch the twitch stream right now :(.

    Never said WoC came one year later, did I?
    How I remember the timeline:
    - we got informed WoC will be an ai faction an not playable
    - Reason: CA spares them for WH 3 which will ‚show us the True Horrors of Chaos‘
    - Community riots
    - CA decides WoC will be a pre order faction
    - Community riots again (WoC are an important faction and should be a core race)
    - CA decides the pre order dlc will be free for one additional week after WH 1 launch if you buy the main game in this time

    Unfortunately I have no time to search for all the sources and so my arguments are kind of weak.

    To be clear: I‘m waiting for a BM and WoC rework since there release. I am disappointed that it takes so long because there campaigns were ok in WH 1 but are terrible in WH2. But by now I think there best possible rework is with Game 3 and all improvements the game will have. Also the campaign maps (vortex!) get really really crowded.

    But if I am wrong and we will get a BM dlc in game 2 I am on with this :) even if I am getting bored with WH 2 and can’t wait for WH 3 :D.

    The difference being frequency. Bretonnia and Grombindal have each had eight updates since July; Beastmen had ten updates on July 30th alone, and many more since.

    Yeah, I knew what you meant there, they do it to hide the content prior to release. But after release they just give it the proper name back.

    That's fine, there's also a list of important points below the video, if you prefer. It also specifies a Beastmen start position in Naggarond.

    I misunderstood your point from Original Warriors of Chaos should not have become playable in game 1 because CA said that 'Game 3 will show us the true horrors of Chaos'. One **** later we got the wonderful WoC DLC..." My apologies.

    Vortex is certainly getting a little full, though that's not really an issue for a Horde Army, they occupy no lands. And I would have had no problem waiting until Game 3, but the evidence seems to be pretty clearly pointing to that not being the case. Which I am also AOK with.
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