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Helmets for the Silverin Guard. CA promised to fix it.

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Comments

  • makar55makar55 Registered Users Posts: 2,955

    If only the Stone Trolls could get the same love.

    Its just sad at this point.

    They will stay in the same spot as frost wyrm for Norsca forever.
  • WaaaghCheifWaaaghCheif Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,363
    makar55 said:

    If only the Stone Trolls could get the same love.

    Its just sad at this point.

    They will stay in the same spot as frost wyrm for Norsca forever.
    It's so otherworldly to me that it's acceptable to buy the Greenskin Trolls and Chaos Dragons twice, with no real change beyond a stat adjustment and a paint bucket change.
  • ManpersalManpersal Registered Users Posts: 2,942

    makar55 said:

    If only the Stone Trolls could get the same love.

    Its just sad at this point.

    They will stay in the same spot as frost wyrm for Norsca forever.
    It's so otherworldly to me that it's acceptable to buy the Greenskin Trolls and Chaos Dragons twice, with no real change beyond a stat adjustment and a paint bucket change.
    The high elf ranger is just a shadow warruior with archer head and BA corsair animation. At least those got a serious recolor.
  • makar55makar55 Registered Users Posts: 2,955

    makar55 said:

    If only the Stone Trolls could get the same love.

    Its just sad at this point.

    They will stay in the same spot as frost wyrm for Norsca forever.
    It's so otherworldly to me that it's acceptable to buy the Greenskin Trolls and Chaos Dragons twice, with no real change beyond a stat adjustment and a paint bucket change.
    As long as people buy, CA will sell.

    According to reddit posts CA's auditory is not the smartest one.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • WaaaghCheifWaaaghCheif Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,363

    makar55 said:

    If only the Stone Trolls could get the same love.

    Its just sad at this point.

    They will stay in the same spot as frost wyrm for Norsca forever.
    It's so otherworldly to me that it's acceptable to buy the Greenskin Trolls and Chaos Dragons twice, with no real change beyond a stat adjustment and a paint bucket change.
    Imagine paying for vampirates after owning WH1, I think they take the cake for recycling, no?


    Vampire Coast has
    New Assets
    New Models
    New Voice Lines
    New Animations


    The Frost Wyrm and Stone Troll dosen't


  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,135
    edited September 2020

    makar55 said:

    If only the Stone Trolls could get the same love.

    Its just sad at this point.

    They will stay in the same spot as frost wyrm for Norsca forever.
    It's so otherworldly to me that it's acceptable to buy the Greenskin Trolls and Chaos Dragons twice, with no real change beyond a stat adjustment and a paint bucket change.
    Because these come as packs with other content... it's not like we just bought them alone.

    Stone trolls came with river trolls (unique model), Pump Wagons (unique model) & Idols (unique model). That's not to mention the high elf side of the lord pack, the additional content for both races or the two new legendary lords (FYI with unique models).

    Frostwryms came with the entire Norsca race (with many unique models).

    You can't take something out of context and complain that people will buy it...

    This is like complaining that people buy those little plastic fold-out sporks when we have proper forks and knives at home.. ignoring the fact it came alongside a lunch meal and it's that we bought...
  • makar55makar55 Registered Users Posts: 2,955

    makar55 said:

    If only the Stone Trolls could get the same love.

    Its just sad at this point.

    They will stay in the same spot as frost wyrm for Norsca forever.
    It's so otherworldly to me that it's acceptable to buy the Greenskin Trolls and Chaos Dragons twice, with no real change beyond a stat adjustment and a paint bucket change.
    Imagine paying for vampirates after owning WH1, I think they take the cake for recycling, no?


    Vampire Coast has
    New Assets
    New Models
    New Voice Lines
    New Animations


    The Frost Wyrm and Stone Troll dosen't


    They don't have own map props outside of VCounts reskinned cities.

    TK had own unique pyramids for example :'(
  • WaaaghCheifWaaaghCheif Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,363


    You can't take something out of context and complain that people will buy it...

    I can, of course I can. Yes they didn't buy for that specific unit, but when a unit that takes a day at most to give actual value, I will be happy to buy it, I've been happy to buy most. (See Day one mods for Silverin Guard helmet and Stone Troll)

    But these outliers in the DLC where the units are mere Old Mods Production Units (No new assets, no new voice lines, no new animations.) I'm not saying a unit needs all these, but it needs at least one of these criteria, a palette swap is laughably to put price tag on, since everything accomading it is High Quality.

    Why let CA ship uncomplete units along with a otherwise great dlc and additions, when given this, it lets CA skip visual hallmarks of some units.

    River Troll, I'm happy to buy, its unique, it has animations, and real polish.

    Stone Troll, no new animations, not unique beyond a palette swap, no new animations. But because it got shipped with Rogue Idols, River Trolls. It's fine, why not just make it free, when it has no real new addition to it?
  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,135
    edited September 2020


    You can't take something out of context and complain that people will buy it...

    I can, of course I can. Yes they didn't buy for that specific unit, but when a unit that takes a day at most to give actual value, I will be happy to buy it, I've been happy to buy most. (See Day one mods for Silverin Guard helmet and Stone Troll)

    But these outliers in the DLC where the units are mere Old Mods Production Units (No new assets, no new voice lines, no new animations.) I'm not saying a unit needs all these, but it needs at least one of these criteria, a palette swap is laughably to put price tag on, since everything accomading it is High Quality.

    Why let CA ship uncomplete units along with a otherwise great dlc and additions, when given this, it lets CA skip visual hallmarks of some units.

    River Troll, I'm happy to buy, its unique, it has animations, and real polish.

    Stone Troll, no new animations, not unique beyond a palette swap, no new animations. But because it got shipped with Rogue Idols, River Trolls. It's fine, why not just make it free, when it has no real new addition to it?
    Because you can't put a price tag on it; because it is not available on it's own (it has no value). You can only put a price tag on the full product. The only argument is whether the Warden & Paunch DLC was worth it (which IMPO it really was).

    Again this is taking one part of a product and complaining that it is not worth the full value of the whole product (which obviously it won't be).

    Look at it another way; lord packs tend to offer three new units with new models / animations per race. Greenskins got their three plus some; they are a little extra because CA had time; not intended as the selling point of the pack. You don't buy the stone trolls; you buy river trolls, wagons and idols and get the stone trolls thrown in for free.
  • WaaaghCheifWaaaghCheif Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,363



    Because you can't put a price tag on it; because it is not available on it's own (it has no value). You can only put a price tag on the full product.

    CA chose to put it behind the DLC, thus CA found it to add value to said DLC.


    The only argument is whether the Warden & Paunch DLC was worth it (which IMPO it really was).

    It was worth it, but this is not my argument.



    Again this is taking one part of a product and complaining that it is not worth the full value of the whole product (which obviously it won't be).

    Dont put words in my mouth. I'm not saying Stone Troll Reskin ergo The Warden and The Paunch was not worth my money.
    My argument is why bother add the Stone Troll when you can't make it interesting. It has nothing to offer.
    I would rather PAY MORE for the unit to get closer to it TT visual identity rather pay the vanilla price and just let a unit be casualty of recycling because of budget issues.



  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,135
    edited September 2020



    Because you can't put a price tag on it; because it is not available on it's own (it has no value). You can only put a price tag on the full product.

    CA chose to put it behind the DLC, thus CA found it to add value to said DLC.


    The only argument is whether the Warden & Paunch DLC was worth it (which IMPO it really was).

    It was worth it, but this is not my argument.



    Again this is taking one part of a product and complaining that it is not worth the full value of the whole product (which obviously it won't be).

    Dont put words in my mouth. I'm not saying Stone Troll Reskin ergo The Warden and The Paunch was not worth my money.
    My argument is why bother add the Stone Troll when you can't make it interesting. It has nothing to offer.
    I would rather PAY MORE for the unit to get closer to it TT visual identity rather pay the vanilla price and just let a unit be casualty of recycling because of budget issues.



    The problem is the models they had were incredibly outdated and have since been replaced in AoS. Also in TT there was no such thing as stone trolls - all trolls were effectively stone trolls there was no separation between a troll and a "stone troll". So it would make no sense for them to look different - as far as TT is concerned a troll and a strone troll was the same thing.

    You should be arguing for all trolls to look like the TT trolls if you want that... but the "stone trolls" is just a variant CA made up to add a little flavour to the game. They are not their own unit and effectively had no models on the TT (either that or regular trolls didn't exist - either way).
  • WaaaghCheifWaaaghCheif Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,363


    The problem is the models they had were incredibly outdated and have since been replaced in AoS.

    They made War Wagons, pretty much 1:1 to the 4th Edition Model. Which Predates the Stone Troll mini.



    Also in TT there was no such thing as stone trolls - all trolls were effectively stone trolls there was no separation between a troll and a "stone troll". So it would make no sense for them to look different - as far as TT is concerned a troll and a strone troll was the same thing.

    Oh please @AxiosXiphos , this is completely disingenuous.







    From Games Workshop catalouge, 2010.
  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,135
    edited September 2020


    The problem is the models they had were incredibly outdated and have since been replaced in AoS.

    They made War Wagons, pretty much 1:1 to the 4th Edition Model. Which Predates the Stone Troll mini.



    Also in TT there was no such thing as stone trolls - all trolls were effectively stone trolls there was no separation between a troll and a "stone troll". So it would make no sense for them to look different - as far as TT is concerned a troll and a strone troll was the same thing.

    Oh please @AxiosXiphos , this is completely disingenuous.







    From Games Workshop catalouge, 2010.
    ... That's exactly my point... there was only 'stone trolls'. Stone trolls were the generic form of troll... The picture of "troll with bone" was effectively a "stone troll" because that's the only unit that existed. Just "Trolls" never existed.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,435
    CA_Duck said:

    Azurian said:

    CA promised to give them helmets, I have not forgotten, and decided to try to remind them on reddit, but I'm afraid they won't hear.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/gjxed2/ca_please_add_a_helmet_to_the_silverin_guard/fqp7tnd/?context=3


    It's not forgotten. ;)
    I hope that you will look into Imrik dragons too: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/264739/knights-of-caledor-act-i-scene-i-ca-ca-let-my-heart-go-on-minaithnir-cried
  • IamNotArobotIamNotArobot Registered Users Posts: 5,649
    Qwerty55 said:



    Personally I'm still more bothered by...Damsels...

    This is the greatest problem. Damsels. NOTHING ELSE.
    I don't know whether they had absolutely no creative liberty in WH1 but they pretty much straight up copied old outdated 1990s metal models of damsels and somehow added them to the game. Damsels are meant to be some of the most beautiful women of Bretonnia, not middle aged Disney step-mothers.



    Totally unplayable, how can one play as Bretonnia and not be able to **** for damsels. CA just needs to do a DLC sized update and mega fix of all kinds of visual problems of WH 1 and 2.
    These women are STUNNING, leave them where they are. Also it says Prophetess.
    *Justice, cats and CONFEDERATION ENABLED for the Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast! feat mummies and Apophas.
    *Exclusive DLCs for Tomb Kings, Vampire Coast, BM, CW and WE! #DLCsAreRacesToo
    *Remaster all WH1 and WH2 faction icons for WH3!
    *Ogre Kingdoms core race or death!
    *Bring back settlement conquering artworks!
    *Gnoblar Carpet for Greesus
    *Improve UI


  • Prkl8rPrkl8r Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,177
    Qwerty55 said:



    Personally I'm still more bothered by...Damsels...

    This is the greatest problem. Damsels. NOTHING ELSE.
    I don't know whether they had absolutely no creative liberty in WH1 but they pretty much straight up copied old outdated 1990s metal models of damsels and somehow added them to the game. Damsels are meant to be some of the most beautiful women of Bretonnia, not middle aged Disney step-mothers.



    Totally unplayable, how can one play as Bretonnia and not be able to **** for damsels. CA just needs to do a DLC sized update and mega fix of all kinds of visual problems of WH 1 and 2.
    The Prophetess looks fine, Damsels are the ones that could use some work.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,435

    Qwerty55 said:



    Personally I'm still more bothered by...Damsels...

    This is the greatest problem. Damsels. NOTHING ELSE.
    I don't know whether they had absolutely no creative liberty in WH1 but they pretty much straight up copied old outdated 1990s metal models of damsels and somehow added them to the game. Damsels are meant to be some of the most beautiful women of Bretonnia, not middle aged Disney step-mothers.



    Totally unplayable, how can one play as Bretonnia and not be able to **** for damsels. CA just needs to do a DLC sized update and mega fix of all kinds of visual problems of WH 1 and 2.
    These women are STUNNING, leave them where they are. Also it says Prophetess.
    Prkl8r said:

    Qwerty55 said:



    Personally I'm still more bothered by...Damsels...

    This is the greatest problem. Damsels. NOTHING ELSE.
    I don't know whether they had absolutely no creative liberty in WH1 but they pretty much straight up copied old outdated 1990s metal models of damsels and somehow added them to the game. Damsels are meant to be some of the most beautiful women of Bretonnia, not middle aged Disney step-mothers.



    Totally unplayable, how can one play as Bretonnia and not be able to **** for damsels. CA just needs to do a DLC sized update and mega fix of all kinds of visual problems of WH 1 and 2.
    The Prophetess looks fine, Damsels are the ones that could use some work.
    They could use youth potion.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 4,771
    If they do change the helmets, I hope they just don't make them copies of the regular Spearmen helmets like that one mod does. Would great;y prefer something that makes them more distinctly Yvressian, like maybe the helmets are a little more weathered and dented to indicate they're artifacts from an earlier age, or they have embedded wayshards like the ones many Yvressians carry to find their way through the mists, or a glowing rune to indicate the armor is enchanted.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,435

    If they do change the helmets, I hope they just don't make them copies of the regular Spearmen helmets like that one mod does. Would great;y prefer something that makes them more distinctly Yvressian, like maybe the helmets are a little more weathered and dented to indicate they're artifacts from an earlier age, or they have embedded wayshards like the ones many Yvressians carry to find their way through the mists, or a glowing rune to indicate the armor is enchanted.

    Yes to wayshard and/or rune, hard no to weathered and dented.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 14,927
    edited September 2020

    makar55 said:

    If only the Stone Trolls could get the same love.

    Its just sad at this point.

    They will stay in the same spot as frost wyrm for Norsca forever.
    It's so otherworldly to me that it's acceptable to buy the Greenskin Trolls and Chaos Dragons twice, with no real change beyond a stat adjustment and a paint bucket change.
    Imagine paying for vampirates after owning WH1, I think they take the cake for recycling, no?

    makar55 said:

    If only the Stone Trolls could get the same love.

    Its just sad at this point.

    They will stay in the same spot as frost wyrm for Norsca forever.
    It's so otherworldly to me that it's acceptable to buy the Greenskin Trolls and Chaos Dragons twice, with no real change beyond a stat adjustment and a paint bucket change.
    Imagine paying for vampirates after owning WH1, I think they take the cake for recycling, no?


    Vampire Coast has
    New Assets
    New Models
    New Voice Lines
    New Animations


    The Frost Wyrm and Stone Troll dosen't


    Jeez, @WaaaghCheif I'll spell it out for you.

    Bats - > straight copy
    Hounds - > straight copy
    Syreens - > radioactive copy of banshee hero
    Terrorgeist - > the seaweed reskin

    Also, I wasn't misrepresenting your argument, merely highlighting that imho the vamp coast has been the biggest recycling event in TWWH dlc history. So please don't accuse me of strawmanning when I didn't, unless you were implying that I was an idiot, which I am not.
    It wasn't. Norsca was the biggest recycling event in TWW history. All(or most) of the Marauders with all cav and base chariot, Manticore, Chaos Trolls, Warhounds, reskinned Giant and Chaos Dragon. That's a significant portion of the roster.

    At least in case of VP we got two nice, massive monsters and biggest artillery piece in the game.
    Furthermore, I consider that Daemon Prince must be removed.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 14,927
    Just to make the point clear, Norsca could've been made much better. For instance instead of a simple Giant they could've got a Curs'd Ettin. Then there are the Flayerkin, which while part of Hellpit originally, could've been added to Norsca.

    There is stuff that could've been added.
    Furthermore, I consider that Daemon Prince must be removed.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 14,927
    edited September 2020
    Actually, I decided to analyze all the assets between Norsca and Vampire Coast to see which is a bigger copy paste overall.

    Norsca:

    Marauders, Marauders (Great Weapons), Marauder Chariots, Marauder Horsemen, Marauder Horsemen (Throwing Axes), Marauder Horsemasters, Norscan Warhounds, Norscan Trolls, Feral Manticore - all direct copies from WoC

    Marauder Chieftain, Marauder Spearmen, Marauder Berserkers, Marauder Champions, Marauder Champions (Great Weapons), Marauder Hunters, Marauder Hunters (Javelins), Norscan Giant, Frost-Wyrm - some changes to the existing assets, maybe new ranged animations for Marauder Hunters?

    Feral Mammoth, War Mammoth, War Mammoth (Warshrine) - 1. set of new assets

    Skin Wolves, Skin Wolves (Armoured), Skin Wolf Werekin - 2, set of new assets

    Fimir Balefiend, Fimir Warriors, Fimir Warriors (Great Weapons) - 3. set of new assets, with the Balefiend specifically different

    Norscan Ice Trolls, Throgg - 4. set of assets for Trolls

    Shaman Sorcerer - dunno, new caster animations or visuals?

    Wulfrik - dunno, I think in the same pile as Marauder Chieftain? Still a beautiful new model



    Vampire Coast

    Scurvy Dogs, Syreens, Fell Bats, Death Shriek Terrorgheist, Mortars, Carronade - pretty much a copy paste. can hardly tell a difference

    Zombie Pirate Deckhands Mob, Animated Hulks - reused animations from zombies and Chaos Spawn/Treekin, but still, very good reskins(not a palette swap like Frost Wyrm)

    Zombie Pirate Deckhands (Polearm), Zombie Pirate Gunnery Mob, Zombie Pirate Gunnery Mob (Rifles), Zombie Pirate Gunnery Mob (Hand Cannons), Zombie Pirate Gunnery Mob (Bombers) - altered zombie animations with each of these units having its own animations

    Vampire Fleet Admiral (Female), Vampire Fleet Admiral (Male), Noctilus, Harkon - technically existing animations as well, but also completely new assets/visuals overall

    Gunnery Wight, Vampire Fleet Captain (Female) - similar to some other assets but overall still well made

    Depth Guard, Depth Guard (Polearm) - from what I know, completely new visual assets aside from maybe something like Blood Knights but overall well made

    Mourngul Haunter, Mournguls - 1. set of new assets

    Deck Droppers, Deck Droppers (Handguns), Deck Droppers (Bombers) - 2. set of new assets

    Rotting Prometheans, Rotting Prometheans Gunnery Mob, Rotting Leviathan - 3rd set of new assets, with the Leviathan having its own shell

    Necrofex Colossus - 4th set of new assets(and a different RoR)

    Queen Bess - 5th set of new assets and completely unique artillery piece

    Cylostra - completely unique

    Aranessa - completely unique

    Deck Gunners - completely unique

    Bloated Corpse - completely unique



    Overall, I think Norsca is a much bigger copy paste than any other race in the game. I think the statement that Vampire Coast is a lazy set of reskins doesn't really hold water and only comes about because people focus too much on the ones that are actual copy pastes but ignore the unique stuff that was added.

    But, of course, Norsca is praised while Vampire Coast is slandered. Wonder why...
    Furthermore, I consider that Daemon Prince must be removed.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
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