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They will stay in the same spot as frost wyrm for Norsca forever.
It's so otherworldly to me that it's acceptable to buy the Greenskin Trolls and Chaos Dragons twice, with no real change beyond a stat adjustment and a paint bucket change.
They will stay in the same spot as frost wyrm for Norsca forever.
It's so otherworldly to me that it's acceptable to buy the Greenskin Trolls and Chaos Dragons twice, with no real change beyond a stat adjustment and a paint bucket change.
The high elf ranger is just a shadow warruior with archer head and BA corsair animation. At least those got a serious recolor.
They will stay in the same spot as frost wyrm for Norsca forever.
It's so otherworldly to me that it's acceptable to buy the Greenskin Trolls and Chaos Dragons twice, with no real change beyond a stat adjustment and a paint bucket change.
As long as people buy, CA will sell.
According to reddit posts CA's auditory is not the smartest one.
They will stay in the same spot as frost wyrm for Norsca forever.
It's so otherworldly to me that it's acceptable to buy the Greenskin Trolls and Chaos Dragons twice, with no real change beyond a stat adjustment and a paint bucket change.
Imagine paying for vampirates after owning WH1, I think they take the cake for recycling, no?
Vampire Coast has New Assets New Models New Voice Lines New Animations
They will stay in the same spot as frost wyrm for Norsca forever.
It's so otherworldly to me that it's acceptable to buy the Greenskin Trolls and Chaos Dragons twice, with no real change beyond a stat adjustment and a paint bucket change.
Because these come as packs with other content... it's not like we just bought them alone.
Stone trolls came with river trolls (unique model), Pump Wagons (unique model) & Idols (unique model). That's not to mention the high elf side of the lord pack, the additional content for both races or the two new legendary lords (FYI with unique models).
Frostwryms came with the entire Norsca race (with many unique models).
You can't take something out of context and complain that people will buy it...
This is like complaining that people buy those little plastic fold-out sporks when we have proper forks and knives at home.. ignoring the fact it came alongside a lunch meal and it's that we bought...
They will stay in the same spot as frost wyrm for Norsca forever.
It's so otherworldly to me that it's acceptable to buy the Greenskin Trolls and Chaos Dragons twice, with no real change beyond a stat adjustment and a paint bucket change.
Imagine paying for vampirates after owning WH1, I think they take the cake for recycling, no?
Vampire Coast has New Assets New Models New Voice Lines New Animations
The Frost Wyrm and Stone Troll dosen't
They don't have own map props outside of VCounts reskinned cities.
You can't take something out of context and complain that people will buy it...
I can, of course I can. Yes they didn't buy for that specific unit, but when a unit that takes a day at most to give actual value, I will be happy to buy it, I've been happy to buy most. (See Day one mods for Silverin Guard helmet and Stone Troll)
But these outliers in the DLC where the units are mere Old Mods Production Units (No new assets, no new voice lines, no new animations.) I'm not saying a unit needs all these, but it needs at least one of these criteria, a palette swap is laughably to put price tag on, since everything accomading it is High Quality.
Why let CA ship uncomplete units along with a otherwise great dlc and additions, when given this, it lets CA skip visual hallmarks of some units.
River Troll, I'm happy to buy, its unique, it has animations, and real polish.
Stone Troll, no new animations, not unique beyond a palette swap, no new animations. But because it got shipped with Rogue Idols, River Trolls. It's fine, why not just make it free, when it has no real new addition to it?
You can't take something out of context and complain that people will buy it...
I can, of course I can. Yes they didn't buy for that specific unit, but when a unit that takes a day at most to give actual value, I will be happy to buy it, I've been happy to buy most. (See Day one mods for Silverin Guard helmet and Stone Troll)
But these outliers in the DLC where the units are mere Old Mods Production Units (No new assets, no new voice lines, no new animations.) I'm not saying a unit needs all these, but it needs at least one of these criteria, a palette swap is laughably to put price tag on, since everything accomading it is High Quality.
Why let CA ship uncomplete units along with a otherwise great dlc and additions, when given this, it lets CA skip visual hallmarks of some units.
River Troll, I'm happy to buy, its unique, it has animations, and real polish.
Stone Troll, no new animations, not unique beyond a palette swap, no new animations. But because it got shipped with Rogue Idols, River Trolls. It's fine, why not just make it free, when it has no real new addition to it?
Because you can't put a price tag on it; because it is not available on it's own (it has no value). You can only put a price tag on the full product. The only argument is whether the Warden & Paunch DLC was worth it (which IMPO it really was).
Again this is taking one part of a product and complaining that it is not worth the full value of the whole product (which obviously it won't be).
Look at it another way; lord packs tend to offer three new units with new models / animations per race. Greenskins got their three plus some; they are a little extra because CA had time; not intended as the selling point of the pack. You don't buy the stone trolls; you buy river trolls, wagons and idols and get the stone trolls thrown in for free.
Again this is taking one part of a product and complaining that it is not worth the full value of the whole product (which obviously it won't be).
Dont put words in my mouth. I'm not saying Stone Troll Reskin ergo The Warden and The Paunch was not worth my money. My argument is why bother add the Stone Troll when you can't make it interesting. It has nothing to offer. I would rather PAY MORE for the unit to get closer to it TT visual identity rather pay the vanilla price and just let a unit be casualty of recycling because of budget issues.
Again this is taking one part of a product and complaining that it is not worth the full value of the whole product (which obviously it won't be).
Dont put words in my mouth. I'm not saying Stone Troll Reskin ergo The Warden and The Paunch was not worth my money. My argument is why bother add the Stone Troll when you can't make it interesting. It has nothing to offer. I would rather PAY MORE for the unit to get closer to it TT visual identity rather pay the vanilla price and just let a unit be casualty of recycling because of budget issues.
The problem is the models they had were incredibly outdated and have since been replaced in AoS. Also in TT there was no such thing as stone trolls - all trolls were effectively stone trolls there was no separation between a troll and a "stone troll". So it would make no sense for them to look different - as far as TT is concerned a troll and a strone troll was the same thing.
You should be arguing for all trolls to look like the TT trolls if you want that... but the "stone trolls" is just a variant CA made up to add a little flavour to the game. They are not their own unit and effectively had no models on the TT (either that or regular trolls didn't exist - either way).
Also in TT there was no such thing as stone trolls - all trolls were effectively stone trolls there was no separation between a troll and a "stone troll". So it would make no sense for them to look different - as far as TT is concerned a troll and a strone troll was the same thing.
Oh please @AxiosXiphos , this is completely disingenuous.
Also in TT there was no such thing as stone trolls - all trolls were effectively stone trolls there was no separation between a troll and a "stone troll". So it would make no sense for them to look different - as far as TT is concerned a troll and a strone troll was the same thing.
Oh please @AxiosXiphos , this is completely disingenuous.
From Games Workshop catalouge, 2010.
... That's exactly my point... there was only 'stone trolls'. Stone trolls were the generic form of troll... The picture of "troll with bone" was effectively a "stone troll" because that's the only unit that existed. Just "Trolls" never existed.
Personally I'm still more bothered by...Damsels...
This is the greatest problem. Damsels. NOTHING ELSE. I don't know whether they had absolutely no creative liberty in WH1 but they pretty much straight up copied old outdated 1990s metal models of damsels and somehow added them to the game. Damsels are meant to be some of the most beautiful women of Bretonnia, not middle aged Disney step-mothers.
Totally unplayable, how can one play as Bretonnia and not be able to **** for damsels. CA just needs to do a DLC sized update and mega fix of all kinds of visual problems of WH 1 and 2.
These women are STUNNING, leave them where they are. Also it says Prophetess.
*Justice, cats and CONFEDERATION ENABLED for the Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast! feat mummies and Apophas. *Exclusive DLCs for Tomb Kings, Vampire Coast, BM, CW and WE! #DLCsAreRacesToo *Remaster all WH1 and WH2 faction icons for WH3! *Ogre Kingdoms core race or death! *Bring back settlement conquering artworks! *Gnoblar Carpet for Greesus *Improve UI
Personally I'm still more bothered by...Damsels...
This is the greatest problem. Damsels. NOTHING ELSE. I don't know whether they had absolutely no creative liberty in WH1 but they pretty much straight up copied old outdated 1990s metal models of damsels and somehow added them to the game. Damsels are meant to be some of the most beautiful women of Bretonnia, not middle aged Disney step-mothers.
Totally unplayable, how can one play as Bretonnia and not be able to **** for damsels. CA just needs to do a DLC sized update and mega fix of all kinds of visual problems of WH 1 and 2.
The Prophetess looks fine, Damsels are the ones that could use some work.
Personally I'm still more bothered by...Damsels...
This is the greatest problem. Damsels. NOTHING ELSE. I don't know whether they had absolutely no creative liberty in WH1 but they pretty much straight up copied old outdated 1990s metal models of damsels and somehow added them to the game. Damsels are meant to be some of the most beautiful women of Bretonnia, not middle aged Disney step-mothers.
Totally unplayable, how can one play as Bretonnia and not be able to **** for damsels. CA just needs to do a DLC sized update and mega fix of all kinds of visual problems of WH 1 and 2.
These women are STUNNING, leave them where they are. Also it says Prophetess.
Personally I'm still more bothered by...Damsels...
This is the greatest problem. Damsels. NOTHING ELSE. I don't know whether they had absolutely no creative liberty in WH1 but they pretty much straight up copied old outdated 1990s metal models of damsels and somehow added them to the game. Damsels are meant to be some of the most beautiful women of Bretonnia, not middle aged Disney step-mothers.
Totally unplayable, how can one play as Bretonnia and not be able to **** for damsels. CA just needs to do a DLC sized update and mega fix of all kinds of visual problems of WH 1 and 2.
The Prophetess looks fine, Damsels are the ones that could use some work.
If they do change the helmets, I hope they just don't make them copies of the regular Spearmen helmets like that one mod does. Would great;y prefer something that makes them more distinctly Yvressian, like maybe the helmets are a little more weathered and dented to indicate they're artifacts from an earlier age, or they have embedded wayshards like the ones many Yvressians carry to find their way through the mists, or a glowing rune to indicate the armor is enchanted.
If they do change the helmets, I hope they just don't make them copies of the regular Spearmen helmets like that one mod does. Would great;y prefer something that makes them more distinctly Yvressian, like maybe the helmets are a little more weathered and dented to indicate they're artifacts from an earlier age, or they have embedded wayshards like the ones many Yvressians carry to find their way through the mists, or a glowing rune to indicate the armor is enchanted.
Yes to wayshard and/or rune, hard no to weathered and dented.
They will stay in the same spot as frost wyrm for Norsca forever.
It's so otherworldly to me that it's acceptable to buy the Greenskin Trolls and Chaos Dragons twice, with no real change beyond a stat adjustment and a paint bucket change.
Imagine paying for vampirates after owning WH1, I think they take the cake for recycling, no?
They will stay in the same spot as frost wyrm for Norsca forever.
It's so otherworldly to me that it's acceptable to buy the Greenskin Trolls and Chaos Dragons twice, with no real change beyond a stat adjustment and a paint bucket change.
Imagine paying for vampirates after owning WH1, I think they take the cake for recycling, no?
Vampire Coast has New Assets New Models New Voice Lines New Animations
Also, I wasn't misrepresenting your argument, merely highlighting that imho the vamp coast has been the biggest recycling event in TWWH dlc history. So please don't accuse me of strawmanning when I didn't, unless you were implying that I was an idiot, which I am not.
It wasn't. Norsca was the biggest recycling event in TWW history. All(or most) of the Marauders with all cav and base chariot, Manticore, Chaos Trolls, Warhounds, reskinned Giant and Chaos Dragon. That's a significant portion of the roster.
At least in case of VP we got two nice, massive monsters and biggest artillery piece in the game.
Furthermore, I consider that Daemon Prince must be removed.
Just to make the point clear, Norsca could've been made much better. For instance instead of a simple Giant they could've got a Curs'd Ettin. Then there are the Flayerkin, which while part of Hellpit originally, could've been added to Norsca.
There is stuff that could've been added.
Furthermore, I consider that Daemon Prince must be removed.
Actually, I decided to analyze all the assets between Norsca and Vampire Coast to see which is a bigger copy paste overall.
Norsca:
Marauders, Marauders (Great Weapons), Marauder Chariots, Marauder Horsemen, Marauder Horsemen (Throwing Axes), Marauder Horsemasters, Norscan Warhounds, Norscan Trolls, Feral Manticore - all direct copies from WoC
Marauder Chieftain, Marauder Spearmen, Marauder Berserkers, Marauder Champions, Marauder Champions (Great Weapons), Marauder Hunters, Marauder Hunters (Javelins), Norscan Giant, Frost-Wyrm - some changes to the existing assets, maybe new ranged animations for Marauder Hunters?
Feral Mammoth, War Mammoth, War Mammoth (Warshrine) - 1. set of new assets
Skin Wolves, Skin Wolves (Armoured), Skin Wolf Werekin - 2, set of new assets
Fimir Balefiend, Fimir Warriors, Fimir Warriors (Great Weapons) - 3. set of new assets, with the Balefiend specifically different
Norscan Ice Trolls, Throgg - 4. set of assets for Trolls
Shaman Sorcerer - dunno, new caster animations or visuals?
Wulfrik - dunno, I think in the same pile as Marauder Chieftain? Still a beautiful new model
Vampire Coast
Scurvy Dogs, Syreens, Fell Bats, Death Shriek Terrorgheist, Mortars, Carronade - pretty much a copy paste. can hardly tell a difference
Zombie Pirate Deckhands Mob, Animated Hulks - reused animations from zombies and Chaos Spawn/Treekin, but still, very good reskins(not a palette swap like Frost Wyrm)
Zombie Pirate Deckhands (Polearm), Zombie Pirate Gunnery Mob, Zombie Pirate Gunnery Mob (Rifles), Zombie Pirate Gunnery Mob (Hand Cannons), Zombie Pirate Gunnery Mob (Bombers) - altered zombie animations with each of these units having its own animations
Vampire Fleet Admiral (Female), Vampire Fleet Admiral (Male), Noctilus, Harkon - technically existing animations as well, but also completely new assets/visuals overall
Gunnery Wight, Vampire Fleet Captain (Female) - similar to some other assets but overall still well made
Depth Guard, Depth Guard (Polearm) - from what I know, completely new visual assets aside from maybe something like Blood Knights but overall well made
Mourngul Haunter, Mournguls - 1. set of new assets
Deck Droppers, Deck Droppers (Handguns), Deck Droppers (Bombers) - 2. set of new assets
Rotting Prometheans, Rotting Prometheans Gunnery Mob, Rotting Leviathan - 3rd set of new assets, with the Leviathan having its own shell
Necrofex Colossus - 4th set of new assets(and a different RoR)
Queen Bess - 5th set of new assets and completely unique artillery piece
Cylostra - completely unique
Aranessa - completely unique
Deck Gunners - completely unique
Bloated Corpse - completely unique
Overall, I think Norsca is a much bigger copy paste than any other race in the game. I think the statement that Vampire Coast is a lazy set of reskins doesn't really hold water and only comes about because people focus too much on the ones that are actual copy pastes but ignore the unique stuff that was added.
But, of course, Norsca is praised while Vampire Coast is slandered. Wonder why...
Furthermore, I consider that Daemon Prince must be removed.
Comments
- Report
2 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree Agree- Report
3 · Disagree AgreeAccording to reddit posts CA's auditory is not the smartest one.
- Report
2 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeVampire Coast has
New Assets
New Models
New Voice Lines
New Animations
The Frost Wyrm and Stone Troll dosen't
- Report
2 · Disagree AgreeStone trolls came with river trolls (unique model), Pump Wagons (unique model) & Idols (unique model). That's not to mention the high elf side of the lord pack, the additional content for both races or the two new legendary lords (FYI with unique models).
Frostwryms came with the entire Norsca race (with many unique models).
You can't take something out of context and complain that people will buy it...
This is like complaining that people buy those little plastic fold-out sporks when we have proper forks and knives at home.. ignoring the fact it came alongside a lunch meal and it's that we bought...
- Report
2 · Disagree AgreeTK had own unique pyramids for example
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeBut these outliers in the DLC where the units are mere Old Mods Production Units (No new assets, no new voice lines, no new animations.) I'm not saying a unit needs all these, but it needs at least one of these criteria, a palette swap is laughably to put price tag on, since everything accomading it is High Quality.
Why let CA ship uncomplete units along with a otherwise great dlc and additions, when given this, it lets CA skip visual hallmarks of some units.
River Troll, I'm happy to buy, its unique, it has animations, and real polish.
Stone Troll, no new animations, not unique beyond a palette swap, no new animations. But because it got shipped with Rogue Idols, River Trolls. It's fine, why not just make it free, when it has no real new addition to it?
- Report
1 · Disagree AgreeAgain this is taking one part of a product and complaining that it is not worth the full value of the whole product (which obviously it won't be).
Look at it another way; lord packs tend to offer three new units with new models / animations per race. Greenskins got their three plus some; they are a little extra because CA had time; not intended as the selling point of the pack. You don't buy the stone trolls; you buy river trolls, wagons and idols and get the stone trolls thrown in for free.
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeMy argument is why bother add the Stone Troll when you can't make it interesting. It has nothing to offer.
I would rather PAY MORE for the unit to get closer to it TT visual identity rather pay the vanilla price and just let a unit be casualty of recycling because of budget issues.
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeYou should be arguing for all trolls to look like the TT trolls if you want that... but the "stone trolls" is just a variant CA made up to add a little flavour to the game. They are not their own unit and effectively had no models on the TT (either that or regular trolls didn't exist - either way).
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeFrom Games Workshop catalouge, 2010.
- Report
5 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree Agree- Report
4 · Disagree Agree*Exclusive DLCs for Tomb Kings, Vampire Coast,
BM, CW andWE! #DLCsAreRacesToo*Remaster all WH1 and WH2 faction icons for WH3!
*Ogre Kingdoms core race or death!
*Bring back settlement conquering artworks!
*Gnoblar Carpet for Greesus
*
Improve UI- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree Agree- Report
2 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeAt least in case of VP we got two nice, massive monsters and biggest artillery piece in the game.
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeThere is stuff that could've been added.
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeNorsca:
Marauders, Marauders (Great Weapons), Marauder Chariots, Marauder Horsemen, Marauder Horsemen (Throwing Axes), Marauder Horsemasters, Norscan Warhounds, Norscan Trolls, Feral Manticore - all direct copies from WoC
Marauder Chieftain, Marauder Spearmen, Marauder Berserkers, Marauder Champions, Marauder Champions (Great Weapons), Marauder Hunters, Marauder Hunters (Javelins), Norscan Giant, Frost-Wyrm - some changes to the existing assets, maybe new ranged animations for Marauder Hunters?
Feral Mammoth, War Mammoth, War Mammoth (Warshrine) - 1. set of new assets
Skin Wolves, Skin Wolves (Armoured), Skin Wolf Werekin - 2, set of new assets
Fimir Balefiend, Fimir Warriors, Fimir Warriors (Great Weapons) - 3. set of new assets, with the Balefiend specifically different
Norscan Ice Trolls, Throgg - 4. set of assets for Trolls
Shaman Sorcerer - dunno, new caster animations or visuals?
Wulfrik - dunno, I think in the same pile as Marauder Chieftain? Still a beautiful new model
Vampire Coast
Scurvy Dogs, Syreens, Fell Bats, Death Shriek Terrorgheist, Mortars, Carronade - pretty much a copy paste. can hardly tell a difference
Zombie Pirate Deckhands Mob, Animated Hulks - reused animations from zombies and Chaos Spawn/Treekin, but still, very good reskins(not a palette swap like Frost Wyrm)
Zombie Pirate Deckhands (Polearm), Zombie Pirate Gunnery Mob, Zombie Pirate Gunnery Mob (Rifles), Zombie Pirate Gunnery Mob (Hand Cannons), Zombie Pirate Gunnery Mob (Bombers) - altered zombie animations with each of these units having its own animations
Vampire Fleet Admiral (Female), Vampire Fleet Admiral (Male), Noctilus, Harkon - technically existing animations as well, but also completely new assets/visuals overall
Gunnery Wight, Vampire Fleet Captain (Female) - similar to some other assets but overall still well made
Depth Guard, Depth Guard (Polearm) - from what I know, completely new visual assets aside from maybe something like Blood Knights but overall well made
Mourngul Haunter, Mournguls - 1. set of new assets
Deck Droppers, Deck Droppers (Handguns), Deck Droppers (Bombers) - 2. set of new assets
Rotting Prometheans, Rotting Prometheans Gunnery Mob, Rotting Leviathan - 3rd set of new assets, with the Leviathan having its own shell
Necrofex Colossus - 4th set of new assets(and a different RoR)
Queen Bess - 5th set of new assets and completely unique artillery piece
Cylostra - completely unique
Aranessa - completely unique
Deck Gunners - completely unique
Bloated Corpse - completely unique
Overall, I think Norsca is a much bigger copy paste than any other race in the game. I think the statement that Vampire Coast is a lazy set of reskins doesn't really hold water and only comes about because people focus too much on the ones that are actual copy pastes but ignore the unique stuff that was added.
But, of course, Norsca is praised while Vampire Coast is slandered. Wonder why...
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree