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CA, Please Proofread the Chinese Translation(s)

diabetes1874diabetes1874 Registered Users Posts: 17
This game is wonderful, but it's Chinese translation(s) really deserves a review.

I am a translator myself and I have worked on a lot of game projects, so I totally understand how they are usually done and the procedures it takes.

The translations we are reading are most likely pieces put together by several translators. Most of them (more likely, all of them) don't have the chance to play the game they are translating -- not to mention they are not necessarily players of any games.

It works well sometimes, for games with simple mechanics and backgrounds, but we are talking about TOTAL WAR WITH THREE KINGDOMS here.




I will name a few here.




1. Some of your translators obviously do not have sufficient knowledge for this job.

I bought A World Betrayed with pure excitement but it's all turned off when I saw Camp Crushers was translated as "破寨軍".

Dude, seriously?

"陷陣營" is the original Chinese name of this reputed elite troop, first written in the Records of Heroes (英雄記) by Wang Can. It is too well known to be back-translated into something else, in my point of view, this mistake is simply unacceptable.




2. When I started Lu Bu's campaign, the first sentence my narrator said was, "After you have killed Lu Bu......" (in Chinese)

After Lu Bu killing Lu Bu. Alright.




3. Among some other weird battle dialogues, this one annoys me the most. I have been hearing my characters saying "依我看,你已取得了進步" in battles. I can back translate it to "I see you have made some progress" with the context. But honestly, it's just incomprehensible in Chinese, more like saying "I see you've received some improvement", which I don't know wtf it means when it pops up in the middle of the battle.

I am 99% sure your translator's name is Google. Otherwise, I dare saying whoever translated this for you probably failed most of their high school Chinese exams. And it saddens me that you even paid money on dubbing (excellent voice actors, btw) with these poorly translated lines. Please let the translation itself "receive some improvement".




It's just some of the errors I have found in the TC version. I haven't tried the game in Simplified Chinese, but from what I've heard, it's even worse.

I would say it's a common sin in the game industry, good translations are actually rarely seen. The translation procedure itself is a limiting factor to an accurate translation, sometimes errors are unavoidable. But come on, if it is a game taking advantage of a specific cultural background, at least have it done properly for that original language.

For the record, I think the TC translation team in fact has a good command of the language and they have done a great job to use the ancient writing style so fittingly. A second opinion, however, is desperately needed.

This game really deserves a proofreader, who actually spends time playing the game and is familiar with the book and the history.

As a player and a customer, I will just be contented if you can do your fans a favor: find someone qualified for the job and deliver us an immersive experience in the Three Kingdoms.
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Comments

  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,707
    lol @ 破寨軍, it's the literal translation without knowing the context behind the game. There is also errors like this:



    The Chinese dialogue in the game says "祈祷吧" and the English subtitles says "pray to ba."

  • NephliteXNephliteX Registered Users Posts: 181
    There was a similar mistake about translation for Camp Crusher in the Korean translation, but it was immediately fixed right. Fortunately.
  • JacquestheApostateJacquestheApostate Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 713
    I am happy that you care enough to at least have the mistake pointed out. CA should be saying thank you
    3 Kingdoms is a great game campaign wise. Make ranked battles in Records mode. Until that is done it won't be complete.
    Gun Cav in Shogun II should have a Retainer!
    Give us another Avatar Campaign!
  • diabetes1874diabetes1874 Registered Users Posts: 17

    lol @ 破寨軍, it's the literal translation without knowing the context behind the game. There is also errors like this:



    The Chinese dialogue in the game says "祈祷吧" and the English subtitles says "pray to ba."

    OMG...... so the English version also needs a bilingual proofreader.
  • diabetes1874diabetes1874 Registered Users Posts: 17
    NephliteX said:

    There was a similar mistake about translation for Camp Crusher in the Korean translation, but it was immediately fixed right. Fortunately.

    If we really dig deeper, the name "Camp Crusher" is weird as well.

    As far as I understand, the meaning of "陣" in the original name means more of "battle formation" instead of "camp". They are elite soldiers who could "crush enemies in any formation", instead of some creepy "camp assaulters".



    I am curious, how is the overall quality of the Korean translation?
  • diabetes1874diabetes1874 Registered Users Posts: 17

    I am happy that you care enough to at least have the mistake pointed out. CA should be saying thank you

    Coz I really like this game. When I visit the steam workshop, I see some modders making a lot of efforts to rectify the location names.

    I would love to provide my service too, but to me, it's CA's responsibility to make this right and this work should be paid reasonably.
  • NephliteXNephliteX Registered Users Posts: 181
    edited September 2020
    @diabetes1874
    There is a bit of problem, but it's usually good translation with 80% quality.
  • diabetes1874diabetes1874 Registered Users Posts: 17
    edited September 2020
    NephliteX said:

    @diabetes1874
    There is a bit of problem, but it's usually good translation with 80% quality.

    I agree that 80% of the text is well done, but the remaining 20% appears so frequently and is enough to harm the overall gaming experience. Most importantly, it's about professionalism.

    I am not blaming the translators or anything, the quality of a translation is very much affected by the procedures and handlings. In this case, I'd say there is a misallocation of resources as they clearly put the wrong people on the positions.

    Of course, you'd never know every problem in advance, that's why proofreading is so important.
    Post edited by diabetes1874 on
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 32,665

    NephliteX said:

    There was a similar mistake about translation for Camp Crusher in the Korean translation, but it was immediately fixed right. Fortunately.

    If we really dig deeper, the name "Camp Crusher" is weird as well.

    As far as I understand, the meaning of "陣" in the original name means more of "battle formation" instead of "camp". They are elite soldiers who could "crush enemies in any formation", instead of some creepy "camp assaulters".



    I am curious, how is the overall quality of the Korean translation?
    I read the Wikipedia page of Gao Shun and there his soldiers are also called Camp Crashers so the translation seems to be right.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • diabetes1874diabetes1874 Registered Users Posts: 17
    edited September 2020
    ArneSo said:

    NephliteX said:

    There was a similar mistake about translation for Camp Crusher in the Korean translation, but it was immediately fixed right. Fortunately.

    If we really dig deeper, the name "Camp Crusher" is weird as well.

    As far as I understand, the meaning of "陣" in the original name means more of "battle formation" instead of "camp". They are elite soldiers who could "crush enemies in any formation", instead of some creepy "camp assaulters".



    I am curious, how is the overall quality of the Korean translation?
    I read the Wikipedia page of Gao Shun and there his soldiers are also called Camp Crashers so the translation seems to be right.
    No offense, but wiki can hardly be taken as a serious reference when we do our job. I don't know who translated this in the first place, but it is inaccurate. Please understand that I don't intend to start an academic debate here, but let me try to explain briefly.

    Let's split the term "陷陣營" and see what it actually means:

    陣: formation

    陷陣: breaking into enemies formation

    營: a regiment (can also mean a camp)

    So the accurate literal translation should be "formation breaking regiment".



    But "陣營" can also mean a "camp" (or faction) in Chinese. So I believe the one who translated it as "Camp Crusher" was a little careless or confused about these word combinations, ignored the context, and misinterpreted the actual meaning of the whole term.

    If you read further you may find the term "formation breaker" on the same wiki page. I prefer that one in terms of accuracy. And my proposed version would be "formation crusher".


    Btw, "寨" can also mean "camp" in Chinese,

    This is also why the TC version "破寨軍" was so wrong, it literally means "Camp Crusher". It's a typical error caused by back-translating from an inaccurate translation, without proper research.
    Post edited by diabetes1874 on
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,707
    edited September 2020
    https://baike.baidu.com/item/陷阵营/10929508?fr=aladdin

    A simple Baidu search in Chinese gives the answer, and being able to do simple Baidu searches should be a requirement for anyone who tries to translate this game. If you can't even do a simple Baidu search don't bother translating this game.

    If whoever translated this even bothered to read the Baike page for Gao Shun it's right there, very hard to miss.

    https://baike.baidu.com/item/高顺/9911

  • diabetes1874diabetes1874 Registered Users Posts: 17
    edited September 2020
    Some other unbearable examples.




    The Cao Xing in Lu Bu's gang is 曹性, not 曹杏.


    "Administrator" was terribly back-translated to "行政官員"......it's Three Kingdoms, not modern time...... please rename it properly as "郡守" or "太守".


    Lu Bu killing Lu Bu.
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,707
    @diabetes1874 And this is exactly why I can't play the game in Chinese text. I am a native Chinese speaker from China, and I can't even play this game in my own language because of how bad the translation is to the point that I can do a better job myself if paid to translate the entire thing. The translators paid to translate this have absolutely no idea what happened during this historical period and relies too much on google translate.

  • diabetes1874diabetes1874 Registered Users Posts: 17

    @diabetes1874 And this is exactly why I can't play the game in Chinese text. I am a native Chinese speaker from China, and I can't even play this game in my own language because of how bad the translation is to the point that I can do a better job myself if paid to translate the entire thing. The translators paid to translate this have absolutely no idea what happened during this historical period and relies too much on google translate.

    Totally. I seldom play games with translation, but it's the Three Kingdoms, I can't help but wish to enjoy it with the most fitting language...... I hope CA will take this seriously, it's really a waste of the excellent gameplay otherwise.
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,707

    Totally. I seldom play games with translation, but it's the Three Kingdoms, I can't help but wish to enjoy it with the most fitting language...... I hope CA will take this seriously, it's really a waste of the excellent gameplay otherwise.

    The problem here is that the translations, for the most part isn't technically "wrong" but it doesn't fit in the context of the game. For example with administrator being translated as "行政官員". It it "wrong" that "太守" is a form of "行政官員?" No, the job of a "太守" involves acting in the capacity of a "行政官員" but the terminology "行政官員" does not fit the context of the game because there is a specific word for the job which is "太守."

    In a similar context, let's take Liu Biao. An incompetent translator would translate his role as "荆州省省长." Is this technically incorrect? Well no, because indeed Liu Biao is the head of the Jing province as governor but regardless, you will get laughed out of Chinese communities if you ever make this kind of awkward translation because the correct term that should be used here is 荆州牧. To get the translation "right" to do a good job, you just can't do it without understanding the context of the game and it's setting.

  • kaihookaihoo Registered Users Posts: 1,097

    Totally. I seldom play games with translation, but it's the Three Kingdoms, I can't help but wish to enjoy it with the most fitting language...... I hope CA will take this seriously, it's really a waste of the excellent gameplay otherwise.

    The problem here is that the translations, for the most part isn't technically "wrong" but it doesn't fit in the context of the game. For example with administrator being translated as "行政官員". It it "wrong" that "太守" is a form of "行政官員?" No, the job of a "太守" involves acting in the capacity of a "行政官員" but the terminology "行政官員" does not fit the context of the game because there is a specific word for the job which is "太守."

    In a similar context, let's take Liu Biao. An incompetent translator would translate his role as "荆州省省长." Is this technically incorrect? Well no, because indeed Liu Biao is the head of the Jing province as governor but regardless, you will get laughed out of Chinese communities if you ever make this kind of awkward translation because the correct term that should be used here is 荆州牧. To get the translation "right" to do a good job, you just can't do it without understanding the context of the game and it's setting.
    These are pretty basic stuff, incredible if CA actually got them wrong
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,707
    kaihoo said:

    These are pretty basic stuff, incredible if CA actually got them wrong

    Considering how CA can't even tell the difference between Chen VS ChenLiu and makes Cao Cao start in Chen instead of Chen Liu it's not even that surprising. CA also thinks that ChenLiu is part of Ying Chuan commandary when Chen Liu was it's own commandary and puts HuLao pass somewhere that's completely wrong taking away it's purpose as the gateway to Luo Yang. Judging from ll of this is it really surprising for CA to call administrators "行政官員?"

  • kaihookaihoo Registered Users Posts: 1,097

    kaihoo said:

    These are pretty basic stuff, incredible if CA actually got them wrong

    Considering how CA can't even tell the difference between Chen VS ChenLiu and makes Cao Cao start in Chen instead of Chen Liu it's not even that surprising. CA also thinks that ChenLiu is part of Ying Chuan commandary when Chen Liu was it's own commandary and puts HuLao pass somewhere that's completely wrong taking away it's purpose as the gateway to Luo Yang. Judging from ll of this is it really surprising for CA to call administrators "行政官員?"
    But its two different things entirely though... one's historic geography, another is translation which is less excusable and should be held to higher standards than this...
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,707
    kaihoo said:

    But its two different things entirely though... one's historic geography, another is translation which is less excusable and should be held to higher standards than this...

    You're right in a way, but it's still pretty inexcusable in my opinion to get such a famous commandary like ChenLiu wrong. What other game that this one can you name where a 3k game got ChenLiu wrong?

  • UnconcernedUnconcerned Registered Users Posts: 111

    kaihoo said:

    But its two different things entirely though... one's historic geography, another is translation which is less excusable and should be held to higher standards than this...

    You're right in a way, but it's still pretty inexcusable in my opinion to get such a famous commandary like ChenLiu wrong. What other game that this one can you name where a 3k game got ChenLiu wrong?
    Not only does CA have both Xuchang and Chenliu as a part of Yingchuan commandery, but they therefore have Yingchuan in two different provinces : Chenliu is Yanzhou and Xuchang is Yuzhou. Honestly, my biggest gripe about TW3K is the map. The physical geography, Province and Commandery boundaries/locations, settlement locations, and settlement/commandery names are just plain awful.
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,707

    Not only does CA have both Xuchang and Chenliu as a part of Yingchuan commandery, but they therefore have Yingchuan in two different provinces : Chenliu is Yanzhou and Xuchang is Yuzhou. Honestly, my biggest gripe about TW3K is the map. The physical geography, Province and Commandery boundaries/locations, settlement locations, and settlement/commandery names are just plain awful.

    Exactly! The terrible Chinese translations I can avoid by playing with English text but keeping the voice in Chinese. I can't avoid the terrible map with Cao Cao starting in Chen and Liu Zhong starting in Xu Chuang which drives me crazy.

  • kaihookaihoo Registered Users Posts: 1,097



    Exactly! The terrible Chinese translations I can avoid by playing with English text but keeping the voice in Chinese. I can't avoid the terrible map with Cao Cao starting in Chen and Liu Zhong starting in Xu Chuang which drives me crazy.

    Well it is primarily for the benefit of Chinese players in China, which is why it is really quite shocking they could actually screw up the language.

    The map was bad, but its a completely separate matter... I'm just happy they heeded my complains and fixed it. Credit where credit is due. CA responded well with the map updates in The Furious Wild
  • UnconcernedUnconcerned Registered Users Posts: 111
    kaihoo said:


    The map was bad, but its a completely separate matter... I'm just happy they heeded my complains and fixed it. Credit where credit is due. CA responded well with the map updates in The Furious Wild

    By copying 50% of a Steam Workshop mod that renamed commanderies?
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,707
    edited September 2020
    kaihoo said:

    The map was bad, but its a completely separate matter... I'm just happy they heeded my complains and fixed it. Credit where credit is due. CA responded well with the map updates in The Furious Wild

    They fixed some of it sure but they have a long long way to go. Sure they added XiaPi I will give them credit for that, but again it's something that they should have never gotten wrong in the first place. They made a huge mistake with the start of the map, a mistake that should have never been there in the first place so how much credit do they expect to get for fixing one of their many mistakes which should have never been there in the first place? When they make a terrible map with wrong commandary names and put Mount Song in an unthinkable location, and still didn't fix this obvious geographic catastrophe in their "redrawing of the map" and only posts that "hey we know it's wrong" how am I supposed to say positive things about it? It doesn't change how they obviously didn't do enough research about the commandaries and geography when they first made the map. Since most of the geographical problems are still present in the game (Cao Cao still starts in Chen lol) I can't say that CA has responded well with the map updates.

    Really just show an average Chinese ROTK fan some of CA's historical errors on the map and I think it's obvious what they say about it. Tell the Average Chinese ROTK fan that "hey do you know this game where Cao Cao starts in Chen and ChenLiu is considered under Ying Chuan commandary, Liu Dai starts having control of Hulao pass in 190?" and tell me how an average Chinese ROTK fan would respond to this and think about this game.

  • QiangLordQiangLord Registered Users Posts: 67
    Your tone is needlessly aggressive, Misaka. Do you think their map is 100% accurate in all the other games they've made? This team has had to learn the entire Three Kingdoms era from scratch, and they've loaded the game up with a phenomenal amount of detail, all things considered. That Chinese players might spot mistakes is hardly surprising, given that Three Kingdoms is an embedded aspect of Chinese culture but is largely unknown in the UK. I suspect a Chinese developer making a game about the Holy Roman Empire or Ancient Greece might make a few mistakes, too, no matter how hard they tried. Perhaps give them some credit for what they have achieved?

    They've also already indicated they'll rectify some mistakes in the future, including Mt Song, which they mentioned in the patch blogs (right after saying they misplaced it). Given how many people that mistake has killed (current count: none), I hardly think it counts as a "catastrophe".

    You also need to remind yourself that this is a video game, and commandery borders serve gameplay first. As you may have noticed, the map is hardly to scale, either.

    What's even funnier is this: I'm not Chinese, but, watching the Three Kingdoms 2010 series, I noticed several geographical errors and anachronisms. So, ultimately, you're holding CA to a higher standard than Chinese creators themselves have held when adapting the Romance.
  • UnconcernedUnconcerned Registered Users Posts: 111
    QiangLord said:

    Your tone is needlessly aggressive, Misaka. Do you think their map is 100% accurate in all the other games they've made? This team has had to learn the entire Three Kingdoms era from scratch, and they've loaded the game up with a phenomenal amount of detail, all things considered. That Chinese players might spot mistakes is hardly surprising, given that Three Kingdoms is an embedded aspect of Chinese culture but is largely unknown in the UK. I suspect a Chinese developer making a game about the Holy Roman Empire or Ancient Greece might make a few mistakes, too, no matter how hard they tried. Perhaps give them some credit for what they have achieved?

    They've also already indicated they'll rectify some mistakes in the future, including Mt Song, which they mentioned in the patch blogs (right after saying they misplaced it). Given how many people that mistake has killed (current count: none), I hardly think it counts as a "catastrophe".

    You also need to remind yourself that this is a video game, and commandery borders serve gameplay first. As you may have noticed, the map is hardly to scale, either.

    What's even funnier is this: I'm not Chinese, but, watching the Three Kingdoms 2010 series, I noticed several geographical errors and anachronisms. So, ultimately, you're holding CA to a higher standard than Chinese creators themselves have held when adapting the Romance.

    Saying “it’s a video game” and that the company is Western is a cop-out. They had plenty of experts and resources to not make those mistakes (yes, mistakes) in the first place, yet they chose to do minimal research and make a completely horrid map based on that. A lot of the mistakes they made are similar to having Rome in southern France or Bavaria in the Balkans or naming the entire island of Sicily as Malta; completely unacceptable, right?
  • kaihookaihoo Registered Users Posts: 1,097

    kaihoo said:


    The map was bad, but its a completely separate matter... I'm just happy they heeded my complains and fixed it. Credit where credit is due. CA responded well with the map updates in The Furious Wild

    By copying 50% of a Steam Workshop mod that renamed commanderies?
    Would you rather they not fix it and use the mod instead? They fixed it pretty well. I'm happy with the campaign improvements in TFW. Try looking for something else to complain about.

    Like i said its a complete separate matter from the topic of this post.

    Start another discussion if the map is all you wanna moan about.
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,707
    QiangLord said:

    Your tone is needlessly aggressive, Misaka. Do you think their map is 100% accurate in all the other games they've made? This team has had to learn the entire Three Kingdoms era from scratch, and they've loaded the game up with a phenomenal amount of detail, all things considered. That Chinese players might spot mistakes is hardly surprising, given that Three Kingdoms is an embedded aspect of Chinese culture but is largely unknown in the UK. I suspect a Chinese developer making a game about the Holy Roman Empire or Ancient Greece might make a few mistakes, too, no matter how hard they tried. Perhaps give them some credit for what they have achieved?.

    No, and when they get it wrong I will always be criticizing them for it. Putting Mt. Song where the game has it is like putting Mt. Rushmore in Texas or even California, therefore I call it a geographical catastrophe. When a Chinese developer translates English poorly or make similar mistakes regarding a game I also criticize them just as harshly as well. My goal is to point out the deficiencies so they can improve the game, so that's why I focus on what they get wrong.
    QiangLord said:

    They've also already indicated they'll rectify some mistakes in the future, including Mt Song, which they mentioned in the patch blogs (right after saying they misplaced it). Given how many people that mistake has killed (current count: none), I hardly think it counts as a "catastrophe".

    I'm more worried that they would do a lousy job in "changing the map" just as they did in this expansion. If they are going to change it, I need them to change it well so it gets rids of at least most, if not all of the inaccuracies. If they are going to change it but only change a little bit while most of the geography still remains wrong then there is little point in changing the map. I need to know that CA actually understands what they got wrong and is moving in the correct direction of making the accurate changes, but so far we have nothing which tells us that which is why I'm concerned.
    QiangLord said:

    You also need to remind yourself that this is a video game, and commandery borders serve gameplay first. As you may have noticed, the map is hardly to scale, either.

    I know this is a video game, that's why I want it to be good and accurate so it's enjoyable for more players who bought the game. It doesn't benefit the gameplay to have Hulao Pass, the pass which was called the "gateway to LuoYang" not even defend LuoYang. It doesn't help the gameplay when Cao Cao starts in Chen because CA can't tell the difference between Chen and ChenLiu. This isn't even an issue of gameplay first, it's just CA being plain wrong here.
    QiangLord said:

    What's even funnier is this: I'm not Chinese, but, watching the Three Kingdoms 2010 series, I noticed several geographical errors and anachronisms. So, ultimately, you're holding CA to a higher standard than Chinese creators themselves have held when adapting the Romance.

    The Chinese creators from the 2010 series have been criticized plenty for their mistakes, including how there was a helicopter flying in the background of the ChangBanPo scene which went viral but I don't see why we should be focused on the 2010 series in the total war 3k section. I hold them all to professional standards regardless of the nationality of the creators.

  • kaihookaihoo Registered Users Posts: 1,097

    kaihoo said:

    kaihoo said:


    The map was bad, but its a completely separate matter... I'm just happy they heeded my complains and fixed it. Credit where credit is due. CA responded well with the map updates in The Furious Wild

    By copying 50% of a Steam Workshop mod that renamed commanderies?
    Would you rather they not fix it and use the mod instead? They fixed it pretty well. I'm happy with the campaign improvements in TFW. Try looking for something else to complain about.

    Like i said its a complete separate matter from the topic of this post.

    Start another discussion if the map is all you wanna moan about.
    Nah, I’ll keep moaning about it just to irritate you. Besides, you posting solely about me is a tad more off-topic than me posting about the map (that you brought up, I might add). I guess I’m flattered that I have your attention?
    Why should i be irritated? Its you who's completely missed the point which I was merely pointing out. Didn't know something like that could hurt your feelings.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 23,324
    Folks, discuss the thread topic and not each other.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain
    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”–George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.

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