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You are right, truly it would cost CA a absolute fourtune to animate a second pair of arms on a monster. And it must surely be far to difficult for a group of extremly experienced animators to do such a thing. And we would never accept such a low quality level as the mod except for when every DLC has a unit with the same or lesser quality like the Ripperdactyls, Ancient Salamander, the entire Warriors of chaos DLC, all the reskins in the norscan army, the awful animations of Tehen, Huntsmen and Archers being reskinned crossbowmen. Stop trying to shill out for CA. They easily have the resources to add two monsters to one faction in a DLC, especially since BM has nothing else to add and it uses parts from previous models.
Normal arms are probably done by Mocap... You know anyone with 4 arms to mocap a 4 armed humanoid? No? Then the thing probably has to be custom animated (Ghorgon likely has a unique skeleton), which means you have the whole thing to animate properly including the challenge of animating a 4 armed monster to look natural.
Ghorgon mod has 2 massive appendages that have no animation, also it does not function as it should because it doesn't move fast (as it has to use Giant walking animation most likely). Comparing that to any minor (because they are minor) shortfall in rippers etc is absurd. WoC suffered from the same issue as BM, only more pronounced, a lack of budget and it being a smaller pack (RP) on top of that. Norsca was an excellent pack for the price, complaining about what it offered value wise shows the entitlement of your stance fairly starkly.
Oh, pointing out the reality that animation, coding, concepting, testing and all other work that goes into a DLC (lets not forget the campaign work and also the rework which will be funded from the DLC budget) are actually intensive and require a lot of hours and money is "Shilling for CA"? No, I am simply not arguing from ignorance.
This was really informative, but I don't see anything here contradictory to what I typed earlier, seems mostly just splitting hairs for the sake of splitting hairs TBH. Fiends and BoN were demoted from daemon status to spawn during 6th and promoted back in 7th? Cool, I didn't know that; pretty weird design choice on GW's part, glad they were made daemonic again later on. Why Chaos spawn, 'mortal' creatures would ever be part of a DoC list after the roster split is pretty weird, but GW gonna GW.
That said, during the however brief time that Bloodbeasts and Firewyrms were contemporaneous with the Fiends and BoN, they were considered the same type of being (spawns), so I reckon if they were ever included, it'd make sense to bring them up to speed as daemons themselves. That's a big if of course and not necessary, but if the choice is between that or robbing two awesome, unique units from the Warriors of Chaos 8th edition roster, I definitely choose the former.
Beasts of Nurgle and especially Fiends, are a different thing all together?
Regardless, you are right that the lines are distinct between WoC and Daemons on the Brute and Mutalith.
The Daemon line, properly done, needs no big mosters, its lead by them.
All four started out as specialized chaos spawn back when Daemons and Warriors were still in one roster. The Khorne and Tzeentch ones were dropped and the Nurgle and Slaanesh ones were developed more and promoted to actual daemons for the armybook split.
Changing something that looks clearly daemonic, but is listed as a Chaos Spawn, in to a proper Daemon?
Preposterous, apparently.
I can't tell whether you agree with me or disagree here. Basically the more unnatural that a monster appears the easier it is to believe it's daemonic. Chaos Spawn are confusing here because although they technically aren't daemons, they look more like it than anything else in the setting. Slaughterbrutes and Mutalith Vortex Beasts are their own unique species, however, while the Bloodbeast of Khorne and Firewyrm of Tzeentch are Chaos Spawn that are somehow 'stable' in their design. That latter fact doesn't really jive with Chaos spawn at all really so it makes sense that there contemporaries, the Beast of Nurgle and Fiend of Slaanesh were promoted into full fledged daemons in latter editions.
Mostly I just want as much as possible to get into the finished product, without robbing Peter to pay Paul when it comes to the various races of the game.
I'm in agreement with you. Just think it's funny that everyone balked at the prospect of making the Mutalith Vortex Beasts and Slaughterbrutes go from a Chaos Spawn to a Daemon, when we've done literally the same with units sharing a very similar design in the past.
Personally, I don't think the Warriors are going to be struggling with content at all, if anything they'll likely have to abandon much of their roster unless CA gives them oodles of Lord Packs. The Daemons, in comparison, are hilariously short-rostered, especially when you realize most of their "numbers" come from the fact there's basically four units occupying the same niche at each point, which doesn't lend itself well to Total Warhammer's design.
You are right, truly it would cost CA a absolute fourtune to animate a second pair of arms on a monster. And it must surely be far to difficult for a group of extremly experienced animators to do such a thing. And we would never accept such a low quality level as the mod except for when every DLC has a unit with the same or lesser quality like the Ripperdactyls, Ancient Salamander, the entire Warriors of chaos DLC, all the reskins in the norscan army, the awful animations of Tehen, Huntsmen and Archers being reskinned crossbowmen. Stop trying to shill out for CA. They easily have the resources to add two monsters to one faction in a DLC, especially since BM has nothing else to add and it uses parts from previous models.
Normal arms are probably done by Mocap... You know anyone with 4 arms to mocap a 4 armed humanoid? No? Then the thing probably has to be custom animated (Ghorgon likely has a unique skeleton), which means you have the whole thing to animate properly including the challenge of animating a 4 armed monster to look natural.
Ghorgon mod has 2 massive appendages that have no animation, also it does not function as it should because it doesn't move fast (as it has to use Giant walking animation most likely). Comparing that to any minor (because they are minor) shortfall in rippers etc is absurd. WoC suffered from the same issue as BM, only more pronounced, a lack of budget and it being a smaller pack (RP) on top of that. Norsca was an excellent pack for the price, complaining about what it offered value wise shows the entitlement of your stance fairly starkly.
Oh, pointing out the reality that animation, coding, concepting, testing and all other work that goes into a DLC (lets not forget the campaign work and also the rework which will be funded from the DLC budget) are actually intensive and require a lot of hours and money is "Shilling for CA"? No, I am simply not arguing from ignorance.
Oh no, animating another pair of arms. The dread, the horror. It must truly cost a fourtune. I am well aware of how Mocap works and why it is used. It's far cheaper and easier than animating something by hand. But hand animating something is not some hellmearch, especially when all you are handanimating is a pair of arms. I also completly fail to see how not animating a pair of arms or doing so unpropperly is worse than not animating the legs of Ripperdactyls making it so they can't even land and attack propperly.
The Ghorgon not moving fast has absolutly nothing to do with the animations but has to do with the speed the developer gave it...
I see so we are not allowed to critizise things created by CA because if we do we are entitled. Are you a games journalist? Because thats something that seems like it would come from IGNs twitter account. But sure litterly just giving them reskinned WoC units and only 2 LLs is so amazing and faultless. Yep, thats definitly what i would describe as Shilling for CA. Charging in like the great knight you are telling all the people who dare critizise the things CA produced entitled and ignorant. You sure showed me how right i was about you.
You are right, truly it would cost CA a absolute fourtune to animate a second pair of arms on a monster. And it must surely be far to difficult for a group of extremly experienced animators to do such a thing. And we would never accept such a low quality level as the mod except for when every DLC has a unit with the same or lesser quality like the Ripperdactyls, Ancient Salamander, the entire Warriors of chaos DLC, all the reskins in the norscan army, the awful animations of Tehen, Huntsmen and Archers being reskinned crossbowmen. Stop trying to shill out for CA. They easily have the resources to add two monsters to one faction in a DLC, especially since BM has nothing else to add and it uses parts from previous models.
Normal arms are probably done by Mocap... You know anyone with 4 arms to mocap a 4 armed humanoid? No? Then the thing probably has to be custom animated (Ghorgon likely has a unique skeleton), which means you have the whole thing to animate properly including the challenge of animating a 4 armed monster to look natural.
Ghorgon mod has 2 massive appendages that have no animation, also it does not function as it should because it doesn't move fast (as it has to use Giant walking animation most likely). Comparing that to any minor (because they are minor) shortfall in rippers etc is absurd. WoC suffered from the same issue as BM, only more pronounced, a lack of budget and it being a smaller pack (RP) on top of that. Norsca was an excellent pack for the price, complaining about what it offered value wise shows the entitlement of your stance fairly starkly.
Oh, pointing out the reality that animation, coding, concepting, testing and all other work that goes into a DLC (lets not forget the campaign work and also the rework which will be funded from the DLC budget) are actually intensive and require a lot of hours and money is "Shilling for CA"? No, I am simply not arguing from ignorance.
Oh no, animating another pair of arms. The dread, the horror. It must truly cost a fourtune. I am well aware of how Mocap works and why it is used. It's far cheaper and easier than animating something by hand. But hand animating something is not some hellmearch, especially when all you are handanimating is a pair of arms. I also completly fail to see how not animating a pair of arms or doing so unpropperly is worse than not animating the legs of Ripperdactyls making it so they can't even land and attack propperly.
The Ghorgon not moving fast has absolutly nothing to do with the animations but has to do with the speed the developer gave it...
I see so we are not allowed to critizise things created by CA because if we do we are entitled. Are you a games journalist? Because thats something that seems like it would come from IGNs twitter account. But sure litterly just giving them reskinned WoC units and only 2 LLs is so amazing and faultless. Yep, thats definitly what i would describe as Shilling for CA. Charging in like the great knight you are telling all the people who dare critizise the things CA produced entitled and ignorant. You sure showed me how right i was about you.
Oh my god. It is not about animating another pair of arms. CA's Ghorgon will likely have a unique Skeleton, which will have to be animated, it won't just be arms added onto an existing model.
The mod Ghorgon is slow (39), the real ghorgon is meant to be very fast (movement 7). The mod uses Minotaur rigging and the reason that it isn't fast as it is meant to be is because the animation it uses would look ridiculous when sped up. It's almost as if these things can't be just cobbled together and come out as a DLC quality.
Obviously not saying that. Critisizing CA is fine, and there are obvious issues with TW:WH (eg sieges). What isn't fine is saying anyone who disagrees with you is a "CA shill". On the topic of Norsca most of those units fit in with Norsca itself, reskinning stuff that only needs a reskin is not bad. Also Norsca is a RP, which are cheap (£7), and advertised as coming with 2 LLs - not factoring in the low cost of a DLC when complaining about the amount of content they recieved (what do you expect for a DLC that costs the same amount as a LP) is very entitled.
Edit, also it was you who "came charging in", not me.
Comments
Ghorgon mod has 2 massive appendages that have no animation, also it does not function as it should because it doesn't move fast (as it has to use Giant walking animation most likely). Comparing that to any minor (because they are minor) shortfall in rippers etc is absurd. WoC suffered from the same issue as BM, only more pronounced, a lack of budget and it being a smaller pack (RP) on top of that. Norsca was an excellent pack for the price, complaining about what it offered value wise shows the entitlement of your stance fairly starkly.
Oh, pointing out the reality that animation, coding, concepting, testing and all other work that goes into a DLC (lets not forget the campaign work and also the rework which will be funded from the DLC budget) are actually intensive and require a lot of hours and money is "Shilling for CA"? No, I am simply not arguing from ignorance.
- Report
2 · Disagree AgreeThat said, during the however brief time that Bloodbeasts and Firewyrms were contemporaneous with the Fiends and BoN, they were considered the same type of being (spawns), so I reckon if they were ever included, it'd make sense to bring them up to speed as daemons themselves. That's a big if of course and not necessary, but if the choice is between that or robbing two awesome, unique units from the Warriors of Chaos 8th edition roster, I definitely choose the former.
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreePersonally, I don't think the Warriors are going to be struggling with content at all, if anything they'll likely have to abandon much of their roster unless CA gives them oodles of Lord Packs. The Daemons, in comparison, are hilariously short-rostered, especially when you realize most of their "numbers" come from the fact there's basically four units occupying the same niche at each point, which doesn't lend itself well to Total Warhammer's design.
- Report
1 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeThe Ghorgon not moving fast has absolutly nothing to do with the animations but has to do with the speed the developer gave it...
I see so we are not allowed to critizise things created by CA because if we do we are entitled. Are you a games journalist? Because thats something that seems like it would come from IGNs twitter account. But sure litterly just giving them reskinned WoC units and only 2 LLs is so amazing and faultless. Yep, thats definitly what i would describe as Shilling for CA. Charging in like the great knight you are telling all the people who dare critizise the things CA produced entitled and ignorant. You sure showed me how right i was about you.
- Report
-3 · Disagree AgreeThe mod Ghorgon is slow (39), the real ghorgon is meant to be very fast (movement 7). The mod uses Minotaur rigging and the reason that it isn't fast as it is meant to be is because the animation it uses would look ridiculous when sped up. It's almost as if these things can't be just cobbled together and come out as a DLC quality.
A good video on the Ghorgon mod:
Obviously not saying that. Critisizing CA is fine, and there are obvious issues with TW:WH (eg sieges). What isn't fine is saying anyone who disagrees with you is a "CA shill". On the topic of Norsca most of those units fit in with Norsca itself, reskinning stuff that only needs a reskin is not bad. Also Norsca is a RP, which are cheap (£7), and advertised as coming with 2 LLs - not factoring in the low cost of a DLC when complaining about the amount of content they recieved (what do you expect for a DLC that costs the same amount as a LP) is very entitled.
Edit, also it was you who "came charging in", not me.
- Report
3 · Disagree Agree