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What do you think is currently the worst unit in each race, why?

XxXScorpionXxXXxXScorpionXxX Registered Users Posts: 1,780
edited October 25 in Multiplayer
Empire: Crossbowmen
I never see them over the other missile units. Archers are cheaper and Huntsmen are just better. Plus those two have loose formations while crossbowmen don't.

Greenskins: Trolls
Might have included River Trolls here as I don't think I've seen them once since the DLC. Stone Trolls just outclass them both right now. But Trolls just feel like they don't generate value. I understand the concept that they're supposed to somewhat function like Skaven running away only to rally and come back regenerating the entire time. It just doesn't work at high level play though, there is always something that will chase them off. Or they'll simply shatter after breaking 3 times.

Dwarfs: Giant Slayers
I'm not actually sure if they're bad or not but I never see them brought over Slayers. They're more expensive than Hammers but extremely squishy. Complete glass canons. But the bigger problem is they don't have bronze shields like regular slayers so they get completely wrecked by missiles with their 0 armor. For something more expensive than Hammers?

Vampire Counts: Cairn Wraiths
Costs the same amount as Grave Guard with half the HP. Would be okay if magic damage wasn't so abundant in every race.

Warriors of Chaos: Chaos Trolls
I think trolls are in a pretty horrible spot right now. Base 40 leadership is abysmal. It would be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that unlike the AI any decent player makes sure to chase off routing units. They almost never make up their cost. And they terror route.

Bretonnia: Foot Squires
I'm a little out of my depth but I feel like Foot Squires are a waste of an investment. They wont beat elite infantry or even do that much damage to them and its generally better to save your money for expensive Cav and go wide with far cheaper infantry backed up by a Reliquae

Beastmen: Giant
The other Giants almost made the list but I genuinely think Trolls are worse. Giants at the very least are great at fighting monsters. Except this giant is completely overshadowed by the Cygor who is basically a giant that doubles as an artillery piece. I can't remember the last time I saw a Beast Giant.

Wood Elves: Great Eagle
Nothing controversial here. Its squishy and its animations are terrible for combat as is its DPS. Its basically a worse Manticor, which it shouldn't be since it costs the same amount.

Norsca: Norscan Trolls
Ice Trolls could probably fall in here too. I think frostbite gives them a little more utility for punishing sloppy lord positioning. But regular trolls just never seem to do anything. Even saturated among Marauders.

Dark Elves: Cold One Chariots
A chariot unit that Rampages. Even if Scourge Runners didn't completely outclass them in every way they still wouldn't be worth bringing at the insane price of 1100. They should be cheaper than Scourge Runners if anything.

High Elves: Great Eagle
Same as Wood Elves compounded by the fact that Phoenixes are actually good.

Lizardmen: Ancient Stegadon Engine of the Gods
That spell is definitely not worth the insane premium you pay for it. Even Arc of Sotek I expect could generate more value. At least you can get 2 of those for the price of 1 of these.

Skaven: Storm Vermin Halberds - They're just not good enough for their price point. Regular Storm Vermin could probably use a price reduction too but at least they are actually good at killing infantry. These guys just have too big an opportunity cost for no utility. No one uses them to take down Cav or monsters they use their missiles, artillery or monsters. They're simply there to protect those units and for their cost you can get 3 clanrats or 6-7 Slaves.

Tomb Kings: Nehekara Warriors
Every time I see these guys brought I always see them taken out by almost anything, they're super squish and don't have anywhere near the staying power of spears or killing power of Tomb Guards. There is just no reason to bring them over those options.

Vampire Coast: Depth Guard Polearms
Same problem as Skaven but time 10. First they're actually more expensive than Depth Guard not less which is insane and second like the Skaven their role is better filled by missiles, artillery and monsters.
Request scorched body textures, poisoned dying animations for infantry's skeletons, a blood slider that allows us to control how much blood appears in battle and make proper death animations for all ethereal units so they vanish for Blood for the Blood God 3.

Comments

  • tank3487tank3487 Member Registered Users Posts: 2,039
    edited October 25


    Vampire Counts: Cairn Wraiths
    Costs the same amount as Grave Guard with half the HP. Would be okay if magic damage wasn't so abundant in every race.

    Hexwraiths are worse than Cairns. If we do not count RoR variant(any slow are just essential in the game).


    Norsca: Norscan Trolls
    Ice Trolls could probably fall in here too. I think frostbite gives them a little more utility for punishing sloppy lord positioning. But regular trolls just never seem to do anything. Even saturated among Marauders.

    Even basic Trolls are actually better than Fimirs, so trolls are not even worst Monster infantry in Norsca roster. In Norsca the worst unit right now are Marauder Champions Great Weapons. They are basically less armored Bestigors(and 95 -> 80 armor downgrade are huge deal) that cost more.


    And you underestimate Great Eagle. It is almost immune to enemy range due to buggy animation/hitbox. And can be good in matchups vs Coast and dawi as result.
  • outrage4outrage4 master engineerRegistered Users Posts: 359
    Empire: Luminark

    Greenskins: Squig herd or rogue idol

    Dwarfs: agreed

    Vampire Counts: agreed

    Warriors of Chaos: Aspiring champs. Chaos trolls are actually decent unit. Way too underrated

    Bretonnia: Blessed treb

    Beastmen: agreed.

    Wood Elves: Tree kin

    Norsca: agreed

    Dark Elves: Medusa by far

    High Elves: Ithilmar chariots

    Lizardmen: agreed

    Skaven: agreed

    Tomb Kings: Have a really good internal balance and nearly every unit is viable option. Nehekara warriors probably the "worst" unit for TK althought unit itself is not bad at all. I am sure a lot of factions would want nehekara warriors in thier roster but for TK this unit is pretty unimportant.

    Vampire Coast: agreed.


  • BjornNorlinderBjornNorlinder Registered Users Posts: 480
    crossbowmen would excel in a roster like Bret I would say
  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,838

    Empire: Crossbowmen
    I never see them over the other missile units. Archers are cheaper and Huntsmen are just better. Plus those two have loose formations while crossbowmen don't.

    Greenskins: Trolls
    Might have included River Trolls here as I don't think I've seen them once since the DLC. Stone Trolls just outclass them both right now. But Trolls just feel like they don't generate value. I understand the concept that they're supposed to somewhat function like Skaven running away only to rally and come back regenerating the entire time. It just doesn't work at high level play though, there is always something that will chase them off. Or they'll simply shatter after breaking 3 times.

    Dwarfs: Giant Slayers
    I'm not actually sure if they're bad or not but I never see them brought over Slayers. They're more expensive than Hammers but extremely squishy. Complete glass canons. But the bigger problem is they don't have bronze shields like regular slayers so they get completely wrecked by missiles with their 0 armor. For something more expensive than Hammers?

    Vampire Counts: Cairn Wraiths
    Costs the same amount as Grave Guard with half the HP. Would be okay if magic damage wasn't so abundant in every race.

    Warriors of Chaos: Chaos Trolls
    I think trolls are in a pretty horrible spot right now. Base 40 leadership is abysmal. It would be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that unlike the AI any decent player makes sure to chase off routing units. They almost never make up their cost. And they terror route.

    Bretonnia: Foot Squires
    I'm a little out of my depth but I feel like Foot Squires are a waste of an investment. They wont beat elite infantry or even do that much damage to them and its generally better to save your money for expensive Cav and go wide with far cheaper infantry backed up by a Reliquae

    Beastmen: Giant
    The other Giants almost made the list but I genuinely think Trolls are worse. Giants at the very least are great at fighting monsters. Except this giant is completely overshadowed by the Cygor who is basically a giant that doubles as an artillery piece. I can't remember the last time I saw a Beast Giant.

    Wood Elves: Great Eagle
    Nothing controversial here. Its squishy and its animations are terrible for combat as is its DPS. Its basically a worse Manticor, which it shouldn't be since it costs the same amount.

    Norsca: Norscan Trolls
    Ice Trolls could probably fall in here too. I think frostbite gives them a little more utility for punishing sloppy lord positioning. But regular trolls just never seem to do anything. Even saturated among Marauders.

    Dark Elves: Cold One Chariots
    A chariot unit that Rampages. Even if Scourge Runners didn't completely outclass them in every way they still wouldn't be worth bringing at the insane price of 1100. They should be cheaper than Scourge Runners if anything.

    High Elves: Great Eagle
    Same as Wood Elves compounded by the fact that Phoenixes are actually good.

    Lizardmen: Ancient Stegadon Engine of the Gods
    That spell is definitely not worth the insane premium you pay for it. Even Arc of Sotek I expect could generate more value. At least you can get 2 of those for the price of 1 of these.

    Skaven: Storm Vermin Halberds - They're just not good enough for their price point. Regular Storm Vermin could probably use a price reduction too but at least they are actually good at killing infantry. These guys just have too big an opportunity cost for no utility. No one uses them to take down Cav or monsters they use their missiles, artillery or monsters. They're simply there to protect those units and for their cost you can get 3 clanrats or 6-7 Slaves.

    Tomb Kings: Nehekara Warriors
    Every time I see these guys brought I always see them taken out by almost anything, they're super squish and don't have anywhere near the staying power of spears or killing power of Tomb Guards. There is just no reason to bring them over those options.

    Vampire Coast: Depth Guard Polearms
    Same problem as Skaven but time 10. First they're actually more expensive than Depth Guard not less which is insane and second like the Skaven their role is better filled by missiles, artillery and monsters.

    Empire crossbowmen are very strong. Great deal, just like their handgunners, but more expendable at their price.

    Basic trolls are solid units in any faction. Just have to knwo how to use them. High skill situational unit for high skill builds.

    Cold one chariots are quite good - durable deadly and with a very strong ranged attack.

    Great eagles are very good, excellent at disruption and hard to shoot.

    Cairn wraiths are useful for their speed and durability to ranged attack.

    But maybe these factions have no worse units? Let's see, here's my picks:

    Empire: Mortar wagon probably, though I haven't tested it extensively (For good reason)

    Greenskins: Boar boyz maybe, or orc boar chariot relative to the alternatives.

    Agree with you on Dwarfs: Giant Slayers

    Vampire Counts: Vargheists are the weakest I can think of, though still important in some situations.

    Warriors of Chaos: Pretty small roster, but I'd say gorebeast chariots have pretty limited utility.

    Agree on Bretonnia: Foot Squires

    Beastmen: very small roster, but I'd actually say basic cygors - overpriced. Giants are far better in melee

    Wood Elves: wardancers or dryads, tough call

    Norsca: Maurader champions GW

    Dark Elves: Cold one dread knights

    High Elves: Archers light armour (pays too much for too little of value)

    Lizardmen: no clear view, but it's likely one of the dinosaur weapons variants

    Skaven: basic Storm Vermin (halbards at least play a unique role)

    Tomb Kings: I guess I have to agree nehekhara warriors, even though I think they're fine and useful in many build

    Vampire Coast: agree on Depth Guard Polearms


  • Totentanz777Totentanz777 Registered Users Posts: 188
    With factions I play a lot in MP, IMO:

    Vampire Counts: The mid tier corpse cart. More expensive than a regular corpse cart and the added ability is so hard to quantify and not even that great.

    Bretonnia: Agreed, foot squires are absolute trash. The only matchup they should be brought in is against dwarves but that is only because you absolutely need AP against dwarves. They still are garbage in this matchup and are one of the reasons this matchup sucks for Bretonnia.

    DE: I 100% disagree. Cold one chariots are extremely good units if used well. I would say cold one dread knights or the non ROR doomfire warlocks. One spirit leach will kill about 1/4 of CODK and doomfire warlocks are insanely squishy with not-that-great stats.

    Agree with VP

    Agree with TK, but I will say they aren't the worst units ever and can be decent in some matchups like skaven or empire. TK is incredibly well-rounded as a faction.

    High elves I would say Ith chariots. Why not just pay a bit more and get the amazing white lion chariots? Eagles can be decent assassins, cause fear and are fast as hell.

    Norsca: I have to say marauder champions because you have to pay so much for such **** combat stats. At least trolls are somewhat cheap for hitting hard and having regen. Plus Throgg can make them not run away with his crown.

    Empire: Crossbowmen are not bad units. The non RoR luminark however...
  • XxXScorpionXxXXxXScorpionXxX Registered Users Posts: 1,780
    You guys make some decent points but I'm still not convinced on DE. A chariot with rampage is completely antithetical to their role. At least CODK have decent combat stats and can hurt what ever it rampages into. Chariots suck in sustained combat.
    Request scorched body textures, poisoned dying animations for infantry's skeletons, a blood slider that allows us to control how much blood appears in battle and make proper death animations for all ethereal units so they vanish for Blood for the Blood God 3.
  • Totentanz777Totentanz777 Registered Users Posts: 188

    You guys make some decent points but I'm still not convinced on DE. A chariot with rampage is completely antithetical to their role. At least CODK have decent combat stats and can hurt what ever it rampages into. Chariots suck in sustained combat.

    Both units don't rampage until they reach 20% health though, so you basically never notice it for COH unless they are about to die anyways or flee. They absolutely wreck infantry and do great on the charge. The problem with CODK is they don't really have that great of a charge and have weak health. A single spirit leach can kill something like 8 or 9 models. All you need to counter CODK is spears, but for the chariots you need something with mass or slows to really bring them down unless you can shoot them, which will kill both units.
  • The_real_FAUSTThe_real_FAUST Registered Users Posts: 1,102
    Empire: Archers/ War Wagon Mortars

    Greenskins: All Trolls who arent Stone Trolls

    Dwarfs: Skolder Guard

    Vampire Counts: Hex Wraiths

    Warriors of Chaos: Chaos Warriors with Halberds

    Bretonnia: Mounted Yeomen

    Beastmen: Giant

    Wood Elves: Wildwood rangers

    Norsca: Champs with Great weapons

    Dark Elves: Medusa

    High Elves: Ithilmar Chariots

    Lizardmen: Arc of Sotek

    Skaven: Poison Wind Globadiers

    Tomb Kings: Nehekara Warriors

    Vampire Coast: Depth Guard Polearms
  • BastileanBastilean Registered Users Posts: 1,120
    Greenskins: Squig Herd

    Darkelves: Cold One Dread Knights

    Vampire Coast: Depth Guard Polearms

    Skaven: Stormvermin Halberds

    Norsca: Champ with Great Weapon

    Bretonia: Squires

    Dwarfs: Skolder Guard

    Wood Elves: Wild Wood Rangers

    Empire: Pistoliers

    Vampire Counts: Hex Wraiths

    Warriors of Chaos: Aspiring Champions

    High Elves: Shadow Warriors

    Beastmen: Not sure

    Tombkings: Not sure
  • Totentanz777Totentanz777 Registered Users Posts: 188
    I would just like to point out that hexwraiths will beat demigryphs w/halberds 1v1. Definitely better than the mid tier corpse cart.
  • DaBoyzAreBackInTownDaBoyzAreBackInTown Registered Users Posts: 248
    Greenskins: Orc Boar Chariot
  • tank3487tank3487 Member Registered Users Posts: 2,039
    edited October 28

    I would just like to point out that hexwraiths will beat demigryphs w/halberds 1v1. Definitely better than the mid tier corpse cart.

    1400 gold AP, ethereal unit beating 1500 gold AP extremely heavy armored one are nothing impressive. Considering that Flaming sword would lead to instant evaporation of hexwraiths in this duel(Flaming sword cast basicaly raise by 6x damage by any unit vs ethereals).

    I actually doubt that ethereals are possible to fix. IMHO it is too hard to balance unit that start to receive 4x damage in some situations.

    Out of nonEthereal units(i think it is pointless to buff them, they would be **** no matter what you do) Vargheists are probably weakest VC unit.
    Balefire corpse cart despite being too expensive and bad synergy of low speed and WOM regen debuff that need enemy in AOE do work in some situations.
  • BastileanBastilean Registered Users Posts: 1,120
    What do you think about giving hex wraiths fire resistance? It's not like ghosts are highly flamable. Don't get me wrong, even at 50% resist, you are still taking twice as much damage. Worth considering?
  • blindjonnblindjonn Registered Users Posts: 749
    Am I the only one who absolutely loves the Beastman Giant? It's the only thing keeping me afloat in the tough Lizardmen and Vampire Count matchups. I think Centigors with Great Weapons are the worst Beastman unit, since Throwing Axes and Razorgors are preferable sources of mobile AP. That or the Gorebull.

    And Mounted Yeomen are definitely the worst Bretonnian unit. Possible one of the worst units in the game. I have no idea how fast, cheap, vanguard, light cav can be so terrible.

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