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End Game Issues. "Bad" Diplomacy.

RaignRaign Registered Users Posts: 3
Playing as Kroq-Gar, i'm in the very end of my campaign.
My very simple issue is that i didnt know my end game objective, until i already "messed it up".
I need the special building within Itza, which is the capitol, i think, of Gor-Rok.
I'm currently in military alliance with this faction and pretty much the only factions left are the ones i'm allied with.

I really need help fixing this. I cannot declare war, because then i will have no support and the entire map at my throat.
Thanks in advance.

Comments

  • SelakahSelakah Registered Users Posts: 580
    Is Itza controlled by Gor-Rok?

    If so, try to confederate with him. If he won't accept confederation, try saving a large amount of money and bribe him to confed with you.
  • GloatingSwineGloatingSwine Registered Users Posts: 607
    If you're in a military alliance, try declaring war on a strongish faction that's near him but not near you, that he doesn't have any existing agreements with.

    That will put him into war with them, and at some point his armies will get killed. At that point, you should be able to get him to confederate.
  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,600
    You can also try raiding his lands. Depending on the difficulty / situation you might be able to force a rebellion which takes the province and leaves it open to you to seize.
  • RaignRaign Registered Users Posts: 3
    Currently all the strong factions are in alliance with me, and so, Gor-Rok. And difficulty is on normal, so i doubt he'll be in a tough situation from that. Also since everyone's in alliance with each other, everybody's side by side with territory.
    Currently trying to save up loads of gold to have him join confederation, but i suspect it's gonna take a lot.
    Almost at a hundred thousind gold, and he still says no.
  • MaleAmazonMaleAmazon Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 712
    Ok, so there are a couple of things you can try:

    -Make the province rebel against Gor-Rok by raiding it. I think some hero actions to reduce public order should work as well, at least if you are not allied. I dunno since I usually play on legendary and reducing AI public order there is pretty pointless. But it might well work on normal.

    -Pay other factions to cancel their alliances with Gor-Rok.

    -Just declare war on him once all other objectives are met (maybe it won´t work for you if you have allies holding necessary territory, I dunno about the victory objectives, they rarely make sense).

    -Build doomstacks of 100% ranged stegadons (apart from lord and heroes) and just win every battle.

    -You should be able to snipe Itza, wait 10 turns, then pay for peace again. Just make sure to not break a treaty with Gor-Rok. Everyone should love you for previous alliances and 10 turns of war will only do so much diplomatic damage.

    Confederation isn´t just about money. It helps a lot if he has low military strength (it might count allied strength, I am not entirely sure), and if he is at war with a lot of factions. It might be more effective to pay him to go to war, rather than just pay him for the confederation.
  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,241
    If you bribe OTHER factions (not gor-rok's) to improve your diplomatic relations to the point where they like you more than they like him. You should be able to see their exact relationship score with him on the diplomacy screen. Usually gifts like that will cost you less than paying for a confederation.

    Then declare war on him. He'll be the odd-man out, instead of you as all the allies join your side instead of his.
  • GloatingSwineGloatingSwine Registered Users Posts: 607
    Valkaar said:

    If you bribe OTHER factions (not gor-rok's) to improve your diplomatic relations to the point where they like you more than they like him. You should be able to see their exact relationship score with him on the diplomacy screen. Usually gifts like that will cost you less than paying for a confederation.

    Then declare war on him. He'll be the odd-man out, instead of you as all the allies join your side instead of his.

    There would be a lot more steps than that.

    You'd need to cancel your alliance with Gor-Rok, then get all of the other factions to cancel their alliance with him as well, and only then would that work. The AI will generally side with the defender in a situation where they have conflicting alliances irrespective of their opinion.
  • RaignRaign Registered Users Posts: 3
    Damn. What a mess i've gotten myself into. XD
  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,241
    edited October 28

    Valkaar said:

    If you bribe OTHER factions (not gor-rok's) to improve your diplomatic relations to the point where they like you more than they like him. You should be able to see their exact relationship score with him on the diplomacy screen. Usually gifts like that will cost you less than paying for a confederation.

    Then declare war on him. He'll be the odd-man out, instead of you as all the allies join your side instead of his.

    There would be a lot more steps than that.

    You'd need to cancel your alliance with Gor-Rok, then get all of the other factions to cancel their alliance with him as well, and only then would that work. The AI will generally side with the defender in a situation where they have conflicting alliances irrespective of their opinion.
    This ^^ is not true. I’ve TOTALLY broken up alliance mega blocks by just war deccing members of the group one at a time. I didn’t need to get the alliances cancelled in advance.

    I don’t ALWAYS get all the allies to side with me. But I get enough to make it a lopsided affair in my favor. I think you’re over-thinking it.

    It’s not a ‘and only then’ would that work affair. As I’ve done it the way I described multiple times. And found it only cost me gold in the 5 figure range per ally. Rather than having to spend absurd six-figure gold to force a confederation.
  • YannirYannir Registered Users Posts: 583
    Just cancel your Military Alliance and pay him to join you. Not having a Military Alliance will lower the cash threshold he'll confederate.
  • peabodyestatepeabodyestate Registered Users Posts: 438
    Yannir said:

    Just cancel your Military Alliance and pay him to join you. Not having a Military Alliance will lower the cash threshold he'll confederate.

    Is this true? I thought the opposite would be.
  • GloatingSwineGloatingSwine Registered Users Posts: 607

    Yannir said:

    Just cancel your Military Alliance and pay him to join you. Not having a Military Alliance will lower the cash threshold he'll confederate.

    Is this true? I thought the opposite would be.
    Sort of.

    Having alliances makes it less likely the AI will feel threatened, and that's one of the principal reasons it will confederate. Especially Lizardmen.

    However, breaking off a treaty will also sour relations for a while.
  • IchonIchon Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,200
    Lizardmen seem quite hard to confederate due to the cold blooded logic or the master plan traits- can't remember which of those but almost all of them have it. Huge amounts of gold might help be probably in the millions, other option is just accomplish all your other victory conditions then DoW and capture Itza unless Krok-gar requires alliances or something with the other Lizardmen? I haven't played Krok-gar in quite awhile so not quite sure exactly what is win conditions are.
    YouTube, it takes over your mind and guides you to strange places like tutorials on how to talk to a giraffe.
  • jamesbluewavejamesbluewave Registered Users Posts: 272
    Yup same thing happens to me. Except I was empire, turn 130 VH and I can’t win the game because I never fought Marienburg. I didn’t wanna deal with constant winter tooth attacks while killing vampire counts on the other side. And because they got the shield of civilization they allied with etaine/Couronne/ and dwarfs. Now I’d just declare war on them because I’m also allied with dwarfs/etaine/Couronne AND have higher relations than they do, but when I do, they always take Marienburg side which causes me to lose the conditions on holding lothern/Couronne/etc etc. so even though I can steam roll Marienburg, I’ll have to fight the 3 largest factions on 3 fronts. It’s pretty nonsense tbh, i’d understand if Marienburg has better relations, but they don’t, I also can’t just ally with Marienburg and win the game because reasons..... it’s pretty stupid how diplo works and honestly, better off avoiding it and just killing everybody first chance you get, relations don’t matter at all, AI always sides with each other, so better off just avoiding the whole diplo system in general outside of trade agreements.
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