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Having trouble with eshin clan

JetFuelDingoJetFuelDingo Registered Users Posts: 65
Im new to the game, but I shouldn't be losing this bad while playing on easy mode. I have a ton of funds and income but I decided to just stick with three armies because they're basically at its highest in terms of expensive units. However, I was fighting a slightly worn out green skins after they killed my first two armies and I ended up losing with my third one despite the third being the strongest out of the two with at least two artillery's , a bunch of strong ranged units and some clan rats and stormvermin w/ halberds to hold the line.

EVERYTIME I tried to hold the line it always ends up breaking with my ranged not doing enough damage and then getting over run after my front line flee like crazy which eventually leads to front line units fleeing and doing ABSOLUTELY nothing afterwards. Its so dam hard to micromanage in this game, I would say that you micromanage more in this than an Age of empires game. Literally units sit there and take hits unless you tell them to chase someone, but then you have to pull back because they go too far and they get gang banged. Regardless my artillery's gets flanked and I don't know what to do, even when I experimented in laboratory.

Comments

  • MalalforthewinMalalforthewin Registered Users Posts: 450
    Skaven aren't particularly easy to understand and to play effectively. I would recommend watching Youtuber videos to better understand the mechanics and the way the game works. Zerkovich (for the in-depth explanations), for examples of battles, multiplayer or not, try: Davhplays, Turin, etc.
  • sebby86sebby86 Registered Users Posts: 8
    Skaven are not good at holding lines.

    Get 5 artillery, 1-2 mortars, 4 jezzails, 4 rattlingguns, 1 engineer, 2-3skaven plague priests.

    Deploy your army away from the enemy and they will come towards you.Use priests to summon menace bellows to stall their tropps while your arty and weapons teams bomb the living **** out of them.

    One of the best armys in warhammer
  • nikamika12345nikamika12345 Registered Users Posts: 537
    Use stormvermin halberds to hold the line, also make sure to take skills on your lord that improves stormvermin even further, you can back them up with rat ogres.
  • andrewbh2003andrewbh2003 Registered Users Posts: 180
    no surprise

    skaven have the weakest infantry across the board outside of MAYBE the undead factions but even then they have ways of bolstering a frontline much better than skaven

    skaven are also one of the hardest races to play effectively especially for a newbie
  • sebby86sebby86 Registered Users Posts: 8

    Use stormvermin halberds to hold the line, also make sure to take skills on your lord that improves stormvermin even further, you can back them up with rat ogres.

    Stormvermin are absoluty **** and should be avoided. Not the way to play skaven at all.
  • BrynjarKBrynjarK Registered Users Posts: 844
    edited November 2020
    sebby86 said:

    Skaven are not good at holding lines.

    Get 5 artillery, 1-2 mortars, 4 jezzails, 4 rattlingguns, 1 engineer, 2-3skaven plague priests.

    Deploy your army away from the enemy and they will come towards you.Use priests to summon menace bellows to stall their tropps while your arty and weapons teams bomb the living **** out of them.

    One of the best armys in warhammer

    This exellent suggestion is one way to deploy with the rats, and its solid against heavy slow armies (dwarfs, emnpire, high elves, dark elves)

    However Orcs and other - in your face - armies, lizardmen, vampires (the melee ones), wood elves, could and should close the gap fast and then will most likely severely outnumber you and then turn you to rat stew.

    That shown arty skaven army numbers roughly 18 catas, (60guns firering) jezztails, (80guns fiering) rattling guns and 4 heroes. With the amount of summons needed for keeping up a frontline, magic is gone in no time, and without magic or fodder those heroes end up as it themselfes.

    A orc army in same tech level could number 1 mean warboss, 1 slippery gobling shaman, these two will hunt your rat heroes mercielessly 1 at a time, 600 black orcs charging the gun squads, 16 stone trolls will break and scatter summons and generally just scaring and terrorizising where battle is too stagnant, 200 INSANE FAST wolfes OR 100 flanking spider riders, or 2-3 BIG ASS spiders will head straigh for that backline and turn it to kindlewood in no time.

    Skaven can also use their their speed/poison segments and divide the enemys army first with skirmishers, and focus fire on segments of the enemy army. Its a bigger challenge facing these armies than the more stationary ones for sure
    Post edited by BrynjarK on
  • JetFuelDingoJetFuelDingo Registered Users Posts: 65
    sebby86 said:

    Skaven are not good at holding lines.

    Get 5 artillery, 1-2 mortars, 4 jezzails, 4 rattlingguns, 1 engineer, 2-3skaven plague priests.

    Deploy your army away from the enemy and they will come towards you.Use priests to summon menace bellows to stall their tropps while your arty and weapons teams bomb the living **** out of them.

    One of the best armys in warhammer

    the lack of a front line scares me
  • HelhoundHelhound Registered Users Posts: 4,905

    sebby86 said:

    Skaven are not good at holding lines.

    Get 5 artillery, 1-2 mortars, 4 jezzails, 4 rattlingguns, 1 engineer, 2-3skaven plague priests.

    Deploy your army away from the enemy and they will come towards you.Use priests to summon menace bellows to stall their tropps while your arty and weapons teams bomb the living **** out of them.

    One of the best armys in warhammer

    the lack of a front line scares me
    If playing Eshin, the concept of a solid line of engagment should fighten you. The ace in the hole for clan eshin are the runner units. Specifically Night and Gutter runners, and not the slinger kind. Eshin is the only Skaven clan that can field AP runners, and they do an unreal amount of damage. Draw enemies back into pockets of Death Runners, cover against cavalry with triads, and do everything in your power to avoid drag out engagements. Most of your armies should be AP runners. There is nothing they won't murder.
  • sebby86sebby86 Registered Users Posts: 8


    This exellent suggestion is one way to deploy with the rats, and its solid against heavy slow armies (dwarfs, emnpire, high elves, dark elves)

    However Orcs and other - in your face - armies, lizardmen, vampires (the melee ones), wood elves, could and should close the gap fast and then will most likely severely outnumber you and then turn you to rat stew.

    That shown arty skaven army numbers roughly 18 catas, (60guns firering) jezztails, (80guns fiering) rattling guns and 4 heroes. With the amount of summons needed for keeping up a frontline, magic is gone in no time, and without magic or fodder those heroes end up as it themselfes.

    A orc army in same tech level could number 1 mean warboss, 1 slippery gobling shaman, these two will hunt your rat heroes mercielessly 1 at a time, 600 black orcs charging the gun squads, 16 stone trolls will break and scatter summons and generally just scaring and terrorizising where battle is too stagnant, 200 INSANE FAST wolfes OR 100 flanking spider riders, or 2-3 BIG ASS spiders will head straigh for that backline and turn it to kindlewood in no time.

    Skaven can also use their their speed/poison segments and divide the enemys army first with skirmishers, and focus fire on segments of the enemy army. Its a bigger challenge facing these armies than the more stationary ones for sure

    If you get races in you face, you are doing it wrong. You should always be setting up your army as long as you can away from the enemy. The only time you will get enemys in your face is when you are ambushed, wich should really never happen as skaven.

    Orcs are slow as **** and AI is stupid and will massblob around your menaces below. The army loss penalty will usually be inflicted before they even reach my ratlings...

  • RonNLRonNL Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 601
    Skaven magic is also very potent, spam summons on were your army needs help, although if you are new I suggest you try the elves first, especially the high elves are extremely easy to play. Only you get some experience in the game try Skaven again.
  • YannirYannir Registered Users Posts: 1,707
    edited November 2020
    Skaven have poor Leadership by design. No wonder your frontline breaks. It's intended to.

    As Skaven you really have 2-3 very effective tactics to use. 1st is overwhelming firepower where your army has no frontline beyond the summons from Plague Priests, relying on weapon teams and artillery to deliver enough bullet hell to shred anything before them to pieces in a matter of seconds. Placement of units in the battlefield is of key importance here and you need learn how guns are effected by line of sight before you can properly use it.

    2nd tactic is using a swarm of rats, a Vermintide. This tactic relies equally much on Plague Priest summons as the first tactic since you need more units than your enemy has in order for it to work properly as you need to engage every enemy unit at the same time and overwhelm them. Ranged units and artillery don't belong in this army since they probably can't shoot properly. You need to know a lot of information about the units you are using since the composition will make or break this army, and you need units for all occasions. Knowing about unit match-ups is also key information here.

    3rd army tactic is for the skirmish style but I would recommend using this only for Clan Eshin that gives Gutter and Night Runners AP missiles. Any other clan will lack the necessary AP to make this work. Use Death Runners, Eshin Triads, Gutter Runners with Poison and Gutter Runner Slingers with Poison. I'd say 4 of each and then add Sniktch/Master Assassin, an Eshin Sorcerer and an Assassin. The Slingers are in because regular GR's will run out of ammo super fast, so they can't take out anything with a lot of hp completely. Like a Rogue Idol. Slingers are the fix for that.

    DO REMEMBER that as skaven you really want to almost always be the one that initiates the battle. Be the attacker in all field battles. You only defend in sieges where you have atleast t4 Walls built, ideally.
    Ugh, I have spoken.
  • KlausTheKatKlausTheKat Registered Users Posts: 584
    edited November 2020
    I love the Skaven mostly for the fact that they really reward thematic army builds.

    As Ikit's Skryre you can go full gunline and be able to utterly stomp pretty much any opposition from range with great options for both AoE damage and single target as well as good battlefield control in slows and snares.

    Pestilens will demolish any infantry heavy armies thanks to having great AoE damage in their catapults and plague magic as well as having excellent chaff clearing infantry of their own. They also have excellent battlefield control thanks to Plague Priest summons.

    Mors and Rictus are nice middle-ground balanced factions that benefit from a blend of ranged damage dealers, numerous disposable chaff to control the field and a few elite(ish) melee units to provide a stronger defensive spine or add clout to offensive melee engagements.

    Eshin... my favourite of all the Skaven factions in-game... Well... you can forget about the notion of even having a frontline, it'll only be a hindrance. Instead, dig deep into that stalky goodness. Go something like 10/12 assorted poison gutter runners/slingers and the rest Assassin heroes, Deathrunners, Triads and an Eshin sorcerer or two. This means you can get all your units from a single recruitment building (2 buildings actually as you need a Plague Cauldron to get poison runners), this frees up all other build slots for Defense/Income/PO/Landmarks, it also means you only need to spend 9/10 skill points on the Red Skill line meaning you can go ham on yellow personal combat or blue skill line campaign buffs for your lords.

    In battle, with an all invisible Eshin commando army you should be looking to isolate, surround and quickly eviscerate enemy units. Attack from multiple directions and then scarper to leave enemy lines in complete disarray providing opportunities to pounce with your death runners. Pick off lords, heroes and monsters with Snikch and some assassin bodyguards. Kite Cav into Triad ambushes with your runners. Any enemy blobs should have your sorcerers dropping AoE magic onto them. You will have no fear whatsoever from ranged enemies as they need to be able to see you to shoot you. Enemy flyers will easily be brought low by AP Shurikens and slings and Garrisoned enemies wont even man the walls seeing as they see no threat outside their walls.

    Eshin also have some of the best campaign map control in the game, usurp rival clans Capitals to get a foothold on every continent, use assassins to nullify potential threats with their holy trinity of Assassinate/Assault army/Assault Garrison. Of course, not all of the shady dealing options are going to be completely useful in there effect but they do all help contribute to supercharging your hero/lord levelling as well as provide some decent income.

    The trick is to remain invisible until you strike. Both in battle and on the campaign map. Always always always leave your ungarrisoned armies in ambush stance.
  • Otters007Otters007 Registered Users Posts: 1,293
    How to play Clan Eshin:

    Kite with gutter runners

    Use death runners to take out isolated high value targets

    Kill lords and heroes with Snikch and assassins.

    All the while pummel the enemy army with mortars/catapults.

    Result: FLAWLESS VICTORY. FATALITY!
  • jamesbluewavejamesbluewave Registered Users Posts: 531
    Skaven just doesn’t play like other factions, the only similar race is the high elves because the high elf best units are archers like sisters/lothern sea guard that can also fight in melee.but unlike the high elves, weapons teams can’t fight in melee, they kinda have to kill them b4 they are reached. And the easiest way to do that is heroes/menace below.

    Honestly, never build a barracks as skaven, they don’t really hold a front line, recruiting skaven infantry is equivalent to recruiting skinks for Lizardmen, play your factions strength not their weakness. For skaven is the weapons teams, pew pew, their melee infantry is garbage, don’t bother investing, they literally don’t beat anything on any difficulty. They require a very weird play style that doesn’t quite fit with some other factions. If you’re a newer player, imo, dwarfs, high elves, lizard men are probably the way to go because they have the highest quality units in the game and biggest room for error.

    Also maybe load up some custom battles! See what weapons teams work best together!
  • GloatingSwineGloatingSwine Registered Users Posts: 1,117

    some clan rats and stormvermin w/ halberds to hold the line.

    There's your problem.

    Skaven infantry don't hold the line, they're pathetic disposable cowards that flee at the first sign of trouble.

    However, there's a way to embrace that. That way is Plague Priests. Plague Priests have a spell called Vermintide, you get 5 casts of it, it's cheap, and it summons a temporary unit of clanrats. Put 4 Plague Priests in your army and spam out those temporary summons to tie the enemy up with an endless tide of disposable rats whilst you do the real job with ranged units. That means weapons teams if you have them, or for Clan Eshin you can use gutter runners and death runners because of their bonus AP damage. (Weapon Teams are still better though).

    Once you get a taste of Ratling Guns and Jezzails laying waste to enemy armies, you won't want to look back.
  • BastileanBastilean Registered Users Posts: 2,307
    Just build mountains of Hell Pit Abominations.
  • JetFuelDingoJetFuelDingo Registered Users Posts: 65

    some clan rats and stormvermin w/ halberds to hold the line.

    There's your problem.

    Skaven infantry don't hold the line, they're pathetic disposable cowards that flee at the first sign of trouble.

    However, there's a way to embrace that. That way is Plague Priests. Plague Priests have a spell called Vermintide, you get 5 casts of it, it's cheap, and it summons a temporary unit of clanrats. Put 4 Plague Priests in your army and spam out those temporary summons to tie the enemy up with an endless tide of disposable rats whilst you do the real job with ranged units. That means weapons teams if you have them, or for Clan Eshin you can use gutter runners and death runners because of their bonus AP damage. (Weapon Teams are still better though).

    Once you get a taste of Ratling Guns and Jezzails laying waste to enemy armies, you won't want to look back.
    In the context of playing ikit claw. How would I make sure that my weapons team doesn't get overwelmed by the enemy front line. Better yet, how do I make sure my rattling guns actually shoot something, because somtimes they don't do anything with the enemy right in front of them while "fire at will" is on.
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