The Tragedy of Blessed Field Trebuchets

Gimblestump

I'm impartial to most of the Bretonnian roster. The sour patch kids color scheme on the knights and the tissue paper peasants don't do it for me, aesthetically and gameplay wise. Their only saving grace are their Field Trebuchets: towering, impressive, capable of launching 50 kilogram boulders over 400 meters. You won't find such intricate engineering anywhere else in the game.

Which is why it's a shame Blessed Field Trebuchets drop the torch at the end of the race

Despite having this awesome "thrice blessed stones that can flatten any evildoer" buildup, the Blessed Field Trebuchets are worst stone thrower type units in the game. Compare their stats to most other stone thrower crew:
- Screaming Skull Catapults have 6 MD
- Goblin Rock Lobbas have 6 MD
- The standard Field Trebuchet has 6 MD
But the Blessed Field Trebuchet has 5 MD.

It's tragic, really, that an otherwise spectacular piece of woodwork is held back by this glaring flaw. You could make the argument that the peasants operating the machine are blinded by the shiny rocks and therefore less effective in melee. Personally, I don't think so. If anything, the devotion to the Lady should at least cancel out the blindness.

I think a +1 MD buff to the Blessed Field Trebuchet would be appropriate to bring it up to the level of its non-blessed brother. If anyone thinks this is too much, let me know in the comments.

Loupi#8512

might be too much, if only we could do +0.5 MD

blindjonn

Though +1 MD might make them devastatingly OP, it's the chivalrous thing to do.

Seswatha#7633

The best tread this subforum has seen for a while.

saweendra#3399

Of course its better its about fair bretonnia.

Dunno it matters , its just not as good as iits cheaper counter part. Ideally its projectile size need to be smaller and need to have bigger explosion radius, and some more explosion damage.

But it sucks not as bad as yeoman but close enough.

y4g3r#8736

I find a lot of success with it. It's really good for supporting cav engagements, or targeting monstrous units being held up on your peasant line.

*edit it also has a 30% larger explosion radius over it's cheaper brother, but it delivers a lot more direct ap damage from the projectile. Hence why I find it better in friendly cav engagements - no friendly fire!

saweendra#3399

y4g3r said:

I find a lot of success with it. It's really good for supporting cav engagements, or targeting monstrous units being held up on your peasant line.

*edit it also has a 30% larger explosion radius over it's cheaper brother, but it delivers a lot more direct ap damage from the projectile. Hence why I find it better in friendly cav engagements - no friendly fire!

it projectile does do friendly damage only explosion doesn't, as far as cav go projectile still kills models which what matters. Hp damage can be healed with earth blood or regrowth, but dead model is dead model

another505

I suggest they get 1 ma aura debuff around the treb. These peasant stinks so much you cant focus to fight them.

Similar to forsaken ror.

saweendra#3399

another505 said:

I suggest they get 1 ma aura debuff around the treb. These peasant stinks so much you cant focus to fight them.

Similar to forsaken ror.

I mean don't they fire holy water, given how skilled they are must be spiljng holy water on them self, cleaning their filth.

yst#1879

Theres really only 2 way or 3 to fix this frikking useless garbage.

- homing, significantly reduced damage
- multishot
- or the saddest option, -$250

They r by far one of the most idoitic units in the game, WORSE than $650 trebs, asking for $850 AHHAHAHAHAHAAH, gott be kinda frikking stupid to fall for this noob trap

Lets just de-myth this rubbish about non friendly dmg

Godefroy_de_Bouillon

The normal trend are better for their price and yes no amount of abs will ever justify this overpriced inaccurate monstrosity. The fact remains that normal treb chevroned into 850 g will perform much better due to better accuracy.

Good luck in shooting your 1500g worth cav engsged with the enemy with this stupid thing. For 850 is too much of a gamble. They can do good if you're super lucky or terrible.

You're always better off with normal trebs. And if someone is bringing them to shoot sem, then hahah o guess they like to check if they could win a lottery.

yst#1879

More accuracy lulz, conjuring fake infos out of thin air again?

More dmg, oh this ones a facepalm, both will kill all inf, cav any regimental unit equally. Actually no, blessed trebs r SIGNIFICANTLY WORSE unless once again, fail maths dictates 76 explosive > 120 explosive. Which normally does happens to elf calculations.

Maybe they r testing it trying to hit eagles LOL!

Disposable Hero

You could increase the splash area some.

Uagrim#4644

Green0 said:

-250g when Blessed Trebs have both more accuracy and do like 2x the amount of dmg on a direct hit... what did I just read.

They have the same accuracy as the standard Treb.

What they have is lower explosion damage, higher projectile damage (which does friendly fire) and a higher impact radius.

They could honestly switch it around. Make the blessed version do more AoE damage while the standard version is more focused on the actual projectile hits.

yst#1879

Redundant, u never need two units sping the exact same thing.

Blessed trebs being yet another treb clone is a huge failure in design.

Theres not a single faction in game with such clone artillery, emp, dwf all have multiple arts for multiple roles. As useless as flame cannon is, they r still one of a kind.

Where as blessed treb is just a piece of sad garbage that performs worse than $650 variant.

Its seriously a campaign unit where u use them to smash walls. Sad piece of garbage

Pocman#6295

Uagrim said:

Green0 said:

-250g when Blessed Trebs have both more accuracy and do like 2x the amount of dmg on a direct hit... what did I just read.

They have the same accuracy as the standard Treb.

What they have is lower explosion damage, higher projectile damage (which does friendly fire) and a higher impact radius.

They could honestly switch it around. Make the blessed version do more AoE damage while the standard version is more focused on the actual projectile hits.

This. Such a huge direct damage for a catapult is basically... Useless. There are very few multi model units in the game that will not have their models already one shotted by the standard one. And those that have (monstruous infantry etc) are probably too difficult to hit with a catapult reliably.

Decrease their direct damage (which btw, does not make really that much sense to be higher, a stone is a stone) and increase the explosion damage, which is were the actual magic is taking place.

Having said that, let's be careful, because it does have a much bigger area of effect than the trebuchet. It could quickly become toxic.

Godefroy_de_Bouillon

Disposable Hero said:

You could increase the splash area some.

Yes that would be good solution. It would be good for synergy with the no ff on explosions.

yst#1879

Godefroy_de_Bouillon said:

Yes that would be good solution. It would be good for synergy with the no ff on explosions.

U must be joking, they have 76 explosive dmg. U think that will solve them being at least $250 overpriced?
U know u still frikking kill any friendly on hit right?

I dont think ppl even get it, these rubbish r WORSE than $650 treb, not sure which part ppl dont understand about it.

Treb 120 explosive. (50 dmg 70 ap)
Blessed trash 76 explosive. (60 dmg 16 ap LOL)

A direct hit from both will any demi griff regardless. So its completely pointless, with SIGNIFICANTLY higher ap on explosion ull do more dmg on everything with regular treb, unless u wanna snipe eagle like some of the ppl here tried to.

The one and only reason they even exists is probably to hit walls in campaign

Pocman#6295

yst said:

Godefroy_de_Bouillon said:

Yes that would be good solution. It would be good for synergy with the no ff on explosions.

U must be joking, they have 76 explosive dmg. U think that will solve them being at least $250 overpriced?
U know u still frikking kill any friendly on hit right?

I dont think ppl even get it, these rubbish r WORSE than $650 treb, not sure which part ppl dont understand about it.

Treb 120 explosive. (50 dmg 70 ap)
Blessed trash 76 explosive. (60 dmg 16 ap LOL)

A direct hit from both will any demi griff regardless. So its completely pointless, with SIGNIFICANTLY higher ap on explosion ull do more dmg on everything with regular treb, unless u wanna snipe eagle like some of the ppl here tried to.

The one and only reason they even exists is probably to hit walls in campaign

Blessed have a detonation radius of 6, trebs of 4. Meaning their explosion damage affects to more than twice the area 50 V 113.

Not saying that they don't need changes, just saying that just looking at their explosion damage is classical Yst trickery.

They are basically empire mortars with high precision, massive ap hit damage and limited friendly fire.

another505

And costing 300 gold more, massive hitbox and lower ld compare to other arty crews.

Blessed is ehh average. Its okay for bret. But should get that 1 md for consistency.

saweendra#3399

See kiliang a few peasents is not issue thats acceptable losses , but the whole issue its meant to support infantry not cav

And bret infantry sucks, even friendly fire killing off models is equal to them routing even faster. So it really doesn't make difference to take this vs normal one.


And you really don't want to be firing at engagement with cav any way since cav models can die.

And as for the magic damage its simpler to take any melee magic damage dealer over trebs for their reliability

Them being trebs easier to snipe with counter arty, or missile spells so basically paying extra 250 for unit that might not last.

Heck thats a spearman unit.

So TLDR it offers mothing over regular trebs at least for that price.

yst#1879

Comment removed.

Look at this They are basically empire mortars with high precision, massive ap hit damage and limited friendly fire. hahahaha, prolly got some poors noobs falling on it spamming blessed trebs thinking they r super mortars

Look at how they mask the key point, limited friendly fire , wow ppl wouldve gotten con thinking yea sure not gonna hurt my grails lol

76 dmg with 16 ap, you couldnt even kill a single xbow man with that.
Treb will remove a greatsword with 70 ap.

But yea they gonna tell u blessed treb is better

Lotus_Moon#2452

yst said:

Lets just de-myth this rubbish about non friendly dmg

Are you sure you tested this correctly? The units still should suffer impact damage but NOT explosion damage as it says on the tool tip as far as im aware this works as intended.

yst#1879

Lets not fail at reading. Which part of no friendly fire did u not understand?
Anyway not expecting much, if ppl can fail that hard on missing 340 dmg but instead focusing on 76, cant get any more fail than that. In elf term friendly fire means lets take about 80% dmg ahhahaahahahahahaa, its ok still not friendly fire

Pocman#6295

yst said:

Lets not fail at reading. Which part of no friendly fire did u not understand?
Anyway not expecting much, if ppl can fail that hard on missing 340 dmg but instead focusing on 76, cant get any more fail than that. In elf term friendly fire means lets take about 80% dmg ahhahaahahahahahaa, its ok still not friendly fire

Can you stop acting offended? Those descriptions have never meant nothing.

Lotus_Moon#2452

yst said:

Lets not fail at reading. Which part of no friendly fire did u not understand?
Anyway not expecting much, if ppl can fail that hard on missing 340 dmg but instead focusing on 76, cant get any more fail than that. In elf term friendly fire means lets take about 80% dmg ahhahaahahahahahaa, its ok still not friendly fire

Your are showing a complete lack of understanding how this aspect of blessed treb works.

Blessed treb is only meant to do NO friendly fire with the explosion dmg aspect of it, so its working as intended.

Now do i agree with this, no i think it should do 100% NO friendly dmg, but all that your test proved is that its working as currently intended.

>Lets not fail at reading

Are you serious? perhaps revisit what the ability actually says. Not to mention it was answered by Duck in the past.

Pocman#6295

Btw, I tested it. Even against arnored units (great swords) blessed trebuchet seems to do more damage than the normal one.

Bastilean#7242

@Pocman How much more damage? What were your tests? Were you testing the splash or just damage dealt in general?

Pocman#6295

Bastilean said:

@Pocman How much more damage? What were your tests? Were you testing the splash or just damage dealt in general?

Unit size "little" (so that there would only be one trebuchet per unit) vs two units of greatswords 30 models each). Simply compared the damage of successful hits, and number of models killed.

I was not supposed to be a "strict" test. I did not point down the damage done nor anything like that. I just wanted to get the general feel of each of them.

My guess is that a detonation area of 4 is not that different from the actual area directly hit by the missile. So the extra explosion damage of the normal trebuchet is compensated by the extra direct damage. Then, the blessed one still has the explosion dealing damage in a wider area.

I guess that there may be situations where the normal is better, but ut against infantry it seems that the blessed performs better even against armor.

I don't know if it is worth the extra gold. That's a different matter.

another505

The question I always have if regular trebs vetted to 850 with better accuracy and rof will be better or worse than blessed trebs...