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WE vs Anything But Skaven Would Be Terrible

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  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 4,826
    The DEs have more in terms of centerpiece than the Skaven, though.


    Palewyrm (wouldn't it be nice taking it from the HE enthusiasts?), Statues of Khaine... Those two units would sell.
  • manpersalmanpersal Registered Users Posts: 2,235

    manpersal said:

    Crossil said:

    neodeinos said:

    Eh, WE vs DE would be a very cool theme and I'd actually prefer to see that even if Moulder is the faction I want the most right now.

    There's no theme between WE and DE and both don't even have anything left unit-wise. There's already enough barrel-scraping for the WE, no need to do so for the DE as well.
    Ariel and Morathi have a lot of history together in lore. WE vs DE would be more thematic. I'm not even sure if the WE ever encounter Skaven once in the lore. Beastmen would have been the MOST thematic mode and BM also need the new units and overhaul more than even WE's do.
    There's a little snag here in that Morathi is already in the game, so that's already a non-factor. And BM will not be part of the LP because it's core WH2 races only, so that's also of no relevance. And let's not forget that the entire mini-campaign in WH1 was WE vs BM, even netting BM a free lord and the harpies.

    Skaven don't need any excuse to have quarrel with anyone and generating a conflict betweem WE and Skaven is easier than with any other faction that's left. They are also closer to AL than any other faction.
    And so what? That entire conflict gives WE as a reason more than enough reason to hate the Dark Elves. The same line of logic lead to Skaven vs Lizardmen despite of the fact that Skrolk is already in the game. That was not a snag in the match up. And, of course, WE actually fought DE after that point as well, mostly in assistance to the High Elves.

    You see, that line of logic always bothers me, "Skaven don't need a reason to fight" well, technically, Warhammer is written so that no race needs a reason to fight, they always have a reason to fight, but that doesn't mean whether that reason is a good one.

    And Skaven don't have a good reason. They don't even interact with Wood Elves in their own armybook(7th edition, because someone will point they don't have an 8th edition one).
    WE are mentioned thirce in the DE armybook.

    Once to say that DE don't like the WE because they're keeping themselves aloof from the whole civil war.
    Two is the whole business with Malekith's wife who was murdered by a HE army while on route to Naggaroth from Athel Loren through a scheme by Morathi.
    Three is when Malekith is looking for allies and the WE, predictably, decline to join him and he lets the issue slide because he didn't expect anything of them anyway (see point one).

    Yeah, sorry, as far as the lore is concerned, DE have no actual reason to treat with the WE in any major conflict.

    Skaven have always a good reason to quarrel with anyone: they're evil little creeps bent on world conquest. They're a perversion of nature, so WE would also have a reason to go after them.
    Not like DE, which are peaceful nice fellas. That Malekith has tried to struck an alliance with WE means nothing, he did it with chaos tribes on occasion, but they still fight each other more often than not. Here, several scenarios as possible as SKV vs WE:

    -Malekith decides to punish the WE for not joining him, and the bretonnians for being pals with HE.

    -Ariel decides is time to take her revenge on all the drucchi.

    -Morathi manipulatea some minion to get her revenge on Ariel and the WE.

    -Ariel, priestess of Isha, decides to end the excesses of the Khainites, led by Tullaris. More or less the same theme as the Queen and the Crone, but it wasn't developped in that DLC anyway.

    The only thing going for SKV is that they have more missing units than any 2nd game core race, but it means nothing if we're still getting another DLC before game 3.
    He thought they were valuable enough as allies, he won't risk them joining the HE instead and that's what will happen if he starts warring against them.

    Sorry, but if you want to argue lore, the DE have no reason whatsoever to open aggressions against the WE.

    Ariel is irrelevant because Morathi. Is. Already. In. The. Game.
    I saw your Morathi statement the first time, but it doesn't change the fact the Morathi can use some other character to chase WE -or any other of the scenarios I pointed- just like Malus is supposed to be helping Malekith to gather scrolls. The DLC is probably gonna be skaven, but there's no reason to not be DE other than too many elves in a row. As I said in another post, before WE were confirmed, the most recurring comment was: Beastmen vs Skaven is the perfect match. Now it isn't anymore the case? Because what I see is some skaven trying to push for content because any match-up makes sense for them but it doesn't for anybody else.

    And so, if there's another dlc it's gonna be DE vs BM? Or do DE and their fans deserve less content than any other game 2 core race? And I know that other races are more badly in need of content than DE or SKV, but this is CA's approach.
  • Fan3982173917524862Fan3982173917524862 Registered Users Posts: 1,545


    I can't tell who you're talking to? Every single comment in this forum has personal bias to it to some degree.

    The OP, since I didn't quote any other post. Not everything is about you.
  • TheLowKingTheLowKing Registered Users Posts: 210
    Honestly, its threads like this that make me hope it isnt Skaven.
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 24,463
    Pocman said:

    The DEs have more in terms of centerpiece than the Skaven, though.


    Palewyrm (wouldn't it be nice taking it from the HE enthusiasts?), Statues of Khaine... Those two units would sell.

    How biased does a person have to be to seriously post such nonsense?

    DE have exactly zero units left. CA could, I repeat, COULD make 1 more LP with a Cult of Khaine theme but even that is still very questionable since it would be more barrel scrapping than the WE side of the LP.

    Skaven on the other hand have enough centrepiece units for at least 2 more LPs and 2 entire Army lists that are still not added.
    - Stormfiends
    - Verminlords
    - Burrowing Behemoth
    - Brood Horrors

    They have so many flashy monsters left that their LPs would sell like Hot cakes.

    Throt LP:
    - Master Mutator Lord
    - Master Moulder Hero
    - Brood Horror
    - Armoured Rat Ogres
    - Mutated Rat Ogres
    - Great Pox Rat
    - Wolf Rats
    - Pack Masters
    - Burrowing Behemoth
    - Chimearat (cheap filler unit)

    So as we can see this is already way to much for 1 single LP so you can cut at least 4 units and save them for another LP.

    Thanny LP:
    - Exalted Verminlord Lord
    - Plague Lord
    - Chieftain Hero (if not the next FLC)
    - Stormfiends (3 variants)
    - Verminlords (unit)
    - Whatever Moulder units are still missing
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 29,799
    edited November 2020


    I can't tell who you're talking to? Every single comment in this forum has personal bias to it to some degree.

    The OP, since I didn't quote any other post. Not everything is about you.
    No need to be passive aggressive. I was just pointing out this entire forum is personal bias.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    "Under construction" - Becky, daughter of Guanyin.

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

    Forum Terms & Conditions

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  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 29,799

    Honestly, its threads like this that make me hope it isnt Skaven.

    It shall be! Yes yes!
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    "Under construction" - Becky, daughter of Guanyin.

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

    Forum Terms & Conditions

    I am The Beast, Son of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, Conqueror of Mountains, purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus

  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 7,097
    Pocman said:

    The DEs have more in terms of centerpiece than the Skaven, though.


    Palewyrm (wouldn't it be nice taking it from the HE enthusiasts?), Statues of Khaine... Those two units would sell.

    So 2 fairly obscure units, vs one of the Skaven Great Clans....

    The Great Clan responsible for creating monsters has less centerpiece potential than DEs....

    Really? What are you smoking because I want some
  • YrellianYrellian Registered Users Posts: 1,894
    jamreal18 said:

    jamreal18 said:

    Skaven has LL - Throt and Thanquol
    LM, HE and DE - complete

    W1 races still have missing LL. Better CA look at them rather than making LL on races that already have their important LL in the game.

    What HE and LM need are FLC. Annointed of Asuryan and Troglodon. No need to make DLC dedicated to them.

    Just my opinion...

    If you want to go by the rules and who can lead armies, you still have:
    HE:
    - Belannaer the Wise (5th edition)
    - Sea Lord Aislinn (6th edition via SoC)
    DE:
    - Beastlord Rakarth (6th edition via Warhammer Chronicles 2003)
    LM:
    - Quatl of Tlaxtlan (no-name, so no need)
    - I would kind want Tetto'eko, Astronomer of the Constellations. Yeah he is a hero choice on TT and I did not include any hero choices with HE or DE, but he was really important during the ETs, so it's 50/50.

    See, they are far from complete. Yeah they might me closer to completed than Empire, but not yet. And I still want Finubar :smiley:
    But they are not LL material
    You mean like mighty Helman? Or unstoppable Tretch? And what about the mighty Saltspite? Ticktaq’to? Alberic? All these are not LL material and yet they are LL in the game. I think all the characters I listed are better than these characters that made into the game.

    His Royal Highness, Phoenix King Finubar!

    "It has been too long since I drew a blade in anger, Tyrion. You have been my sword, and Teclis has been my shield. But now it is time I fought my own battles!"

    I used to be crazycrix, then Epic happened and I became Dubinekdubajs, which I had to change again😀
  • ZekerathZekerath Registered Users Posts: 656

    Uagrim said:

    Uagrim said:

    Uagrim said:

    How I love the sheer arrogance of skaven fans.

    Only our faction has stuff left to add yes-yes. Only we deserve CA's attention yes-yes. Cool stuff for other factions no-no they don't have cool stuff only we do.

    Get a grip.

    If CA wants to add stuff to other factions they will find a way adding new units is something they have done time and time again ever since warhammer 1.

    Lets not throw personal snipes around.

    If you look at TT content Skaven have quite a lot of good stuff left to add. Other races not so much. CA can add lore scraps and even invent units, but if you consider that this game is based off of the TableTop game then Skaven easily have more, better stuff to add than any other game 2 race.
    This isn't TT anymore, hasn't been for a long while now. Else bretonnia would have an even smaller roster and stuff like sacred kroxigor or eshin tirads wouldn't be in the game.
    The game is based off of 8th edition WHFB. Eshin Triads were part of that, albiet a side list.
    This doesn't refute my point at all. Seeing as stuff like sacred kroxigors and Royal Pegasus Knights weren't a thing on TT. Neither were weapon teams as individual units.

    The game is build upon TT but to some extend it can't be tied down by it.
    The game is based off of the TT. Skaven have the most important characters left in not one but two TT lords. They also have far more TT units than LM, and a far stronger remaining theme in Moulder than anything any other game 2 race has.

    If you wish to preference different factors differently s'all good.
    CA hasn't really shied away from using TT heroes as LL in the game, and there are plenty of those that can still be added instead.
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 10,781
    Agree 100% with the title of this thread.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • UagrimUagrim Registered Users Posts: 1,895


    jamreal18 said:

    jamreal18 said:

    Skaven has LL - Throt and Thanquol
    LM, HE and DE - complete

    W1 races still have missing LL. Better CA look at them rather than making LL on races that already have their important LL in the game.

    What HE and LM need are FLC. Annointed of Asuryan and Troglodon. No need to make DLC dedicated to them.

    Just my opinion...

    If you want to go by the rules and who can lead armies, you still have:
    HE:
    - Belannaer the Wise (5th edition)
    - Sea Lord Aislinn (6th edition via SoC)
    DE:
    - Beastlord Rakarth (6th edition via Warhammer Chronicles 2003)
    LM:
    - Quatl of Tlaxtlan (no-name, so no need)
    - I would kind want Tetto'eko, Astronomer of the Constellations. Yeah he is a hero choice on TT and I did not include any hero choices with HE or DE, but he was really important during the ETs, so it's 50/50.

    See, they are far from complete. Yeah they might me closer to completed than Empire, but not yet. And I still want Finubar :smiley:
    But they are not LL material
    You mean like mighty Helman? Or unstoppable Tretch? And what about the mighty Saltspite? Ticktaq’to? Alberic? All these are not LL material and yet they are LL in the game. I think all the characters I listed are better than these characters that made into the game.
    Tretch was a lord choice on TT so all the TT purists should be quiet about him. And for them he was the best choice for a FLC Lord. Imagine if Throt became a FLC and didn't have his own OP campaign mechanic.

    Some skaven fans would utterly loose their minds.

    Ghorst was indeed a strange choice since had Kemmler for the necromancer LL already.
  • YrellianYrellian Registered Users Posts: 1,894
    edited November 2020
    Uagrim said:


    jamreal18 said:

    jamreal18 said:

    Skaven has LL - Throt and Thanquol
    LM, HE and DE - complete

    W1 races still have missing LL. Better CA look at them rather than making LL on races that already have their important LL in the game.

    What HE and LM need are FLC. Annointed of Asuryan and Troglodon. No need to make DLC dedicated to them.

    Just my opinion...

    If you want to go by the rules and who can lead armies, you still have:
    HE:
    - Belannaer the Wise (5th edition)
    - Sea Lord Aislinn (6th edition via SoC)
    DE:
    - Beastlord Rakarth (6th edition via Warhammer Chronicles 2003)
    LM:
    - Quatl of Tlaxtlan (no-name, so no need)
    - I would kind want Tetto'eko, Astronomer of the Constellations. Yeah he is a hero choice on TT and I did not include any hero choices with HE or DE, but he was really important during the ETs, so it's 50/50.

    See, they are far from complete. Yeah they might me closer to completed than Empire, but not yet. And I still want Finubar :smiley:
    But they are not LL material
    You mean like mighty Helman? Or unstoppable Tretch? And what about the mighty Saltspite? Ticktaq’to? Alberic? All these are not LL material and yet they are LL in the game. I think all the characters I listed are better than these characters that made into the game.
    Tretch was a lord choice on TT so all the TT purists should be quiet about him. And for them he was the best choice for a FLC Lord. Imagine if Throt became a FLC and didn't have his own OP campaign mechanic.

    Some skaven fans would utterly loose their minds.

    Ghorst was indeed a strange choice since had Kemmler for the necromancer LL already.
    Tretch was a hero choice, a named chieftain, that is why he calls himself: “ Grand Chieftain of the Deep Warrens”. Here are the rules if you do not believe me:


    It also needs to be said that he could have been armies general, like any character that was not specifically said that he cannot. (Deathmaster in 7th and 8th edition, Shadowblade etc.)

    His Royal Highness, Phoenix King Finubar!

    "It has been too long since I drew a blade in anger, Tyrion. You have been my sword, and Teclis has been my shield. But now it is time I fought my own battles!"

    I used to be crazycrix, then Epic happened and I became Dubinekdubajs, which I had to change again😀
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 24,463
    Uagrim said:


    jamreal18 said:

    jamreal18 said:

    Skaven has LL - Throt and Thanquol
    LM, HE and DE - complete

    W1 races still have missing LL. Better CA look at them rather than making LL on races that already have their important LL in the game.

    What HE and LM need are FLC. Annointed of Asuryan and Troglodon. No need to make DLC dedicated to them.

    Just my opinion...

    If you want to go by the rules and who can lead armies, you still have:
    HE:
    - Belannaer the Wise (5th edition)
    - Sea Lord Aislinn (6th edition via SoC)
    DE:
    - Beastlord Rakarth (6th edition via Warhammer Chronicles 2003)
    LM:
    - Quatl of Tlaxtlan (no-name, so no need)
    - I would kind want Tetto'eko, Astronomer of the Constellations. Yeah he is a hero choice on TT and I did not include any hero choices with HE or DE, but he was really important during the ETs, so it's 50/50.

    See, they are far from complete. Yeah they might me closer to completed than Empire, but not yet. And I still want Finubar :smiley:
    But they are not LL material
    You mean like mighty Helman? Or unstoppable Tretch? And what about the mighty Saltspite? Ticktaq’to? Alberic? All these are not LL material and yet they are LL in the game. I think all the characters I listed are better than these characters that made into the game.
    Tretch was a lord choice on TT so all the TT purists should be quiet about him. And for them he was the best choice for a FLC Lord. Imagine if Throt became a FLC and didn't have his own OP campaign mechanic.

    Some skaven fans would utterly loose their minds.

    Ghorst was indeed a strange choice since had Kemmler for the necromancer LL already.
    Agreed. Tretch was the only real FLC choice for the Skaven. I really cannot understand how some people argue that Throt would be fine as FLC...

    Ghorst on the other hand was just a terrible decision and CA should never repeat such mistakes.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • YrellianYrellian Registered Users Posts: 1,894
    ArneSo said:

    Uagrim said:


    jamreal18 said:

    jamreal18 said:

    Skaven has LL - Throt and Thanquol
    LM, HE and DE - complete

    W1 races still have missing LL. Better CA look at them rather than making LL on races that already have their important LL in the game.

    What HE and LM need are FLC. Annointed of Asuryan and Troglodon. No need to make DLC dedicated to them.

    Just my opinion...

    If you want to go by the rules and who can lead armies, you still have:
    HE:
    - Belannaer the Wise (5th edition)
    - Sea Lord Aislinn (6th edition via SoC)
    DE:
    - Beastlord Rakarth (6th edition via Warhammer Chronicles 2003)
    LM:
    - Quatl of Tlaxtlan (no-name, so no need)
    - I would kind want Tetto'eko, Astronomer of the Constellations. Yeah he is a hero choice on TT and I did not include any hero choices with HE or DE, but he was really important during the ETs, so it's 50/50.

    See, they are far from complete. Yeah they might me closer to completed than Empire, but not yet. And I still want Finubar :smiley:
    But they are not LL material
    You mean like mighty Helman? Or unstoppable Tretch? And what about the mighty Saltspite? Ticktaq’to? Alberic? All these are not LL material and yet they are LL in the game. I think all the characters I listed are better than these characters that made into the game.
    Tretch was a lord choice on TT so all the TT purists should be quiet about him. And for them he was the best choice for a FLC Lord. Imagine if Throt became a FLC and didn't have his own OP campaign mechanic.

    Some skaven fans would utterly loose their minds.

    Ghorst was indeed a strange choice since had Kemmler for the necromancer LL already.
    Agreed. Tretch was the only real FLC choice for the Skaven. I really cannot understand how some people argue that Throt would be fine as FLC...

    Ghorst on the other hand was just a terrible decision and CA should never repeat such mistakes.
    What about Deathmaster? He could have been the FLC instead of Tretch, as all Eshin units from the 8th edition were in the game from the start. But CA decided to make all the great skaven clans unique (except the best one - Pestilens) and thus spend more resources on skaven than any other race to date.(if we are to believe that Skaven will be part of the upcoming dlc)

    His Royal Highness, Phoenix King Finubar!

    "It has been too long since I drew a blade in anger, Tyrion. You have been my sword, and Teclis has been my shield. But now it is time I fought my own battles!"

    I used to be crazycrix, then Epic happened and I became Dubinekdubajs, which I had to change again😀
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 24,463

    ArneSo said:

    Uagrim said:


    jamreal18 said:

    jamreal18 said:

    Skaven has LL - Throt and Thanquol
    LM, HE and DE - complete

    W1 races still have missing LL. Better CA look at them rather than making LL on races that already have their important LL in the game.

    What HE and LM need are FLC. Annointed of Asuryan and Troglodon. No need to make DLC dedicated to them.

    Just my opinion...

    If you want to go by the rules and who can lead armies, you still have:
    HE:
    - Belannaer the Wise (5th edition)
    - Sea Lord Aislinn (6th edition via SoC)
    DE:
    - Beastlord Rakarth (6th edition via Warhammer Chronicles 2003)
    LM:
    - Quatl of Tlaxtlan (no-name, so no need)
    - I would kind want Tetto'eko, Astronomer of the Constellations. Yeah he is a hero choice on TT and I did not include any hero choices with HE or DE, but he was really important during the ETs, so it's 50/50.

    See, they are far from complete. Yeah they might me closer to completed than Empire, but not yet. And I still want Finubar :smiley:
    But they are not LL material
    You mean like mighty Helman? Or unstoppable Tretch? And what about the mighty Saltspite? Ticktaq’to? Alberic? All these are not LL material and yet they are LL in the game. I think all the characters I listed are better than these characters that made into the game.
    Tretch was a lord choice on TT so all the TT purists should be quiet about him. And for them he was the best choice for a FLC Lord. Imagine if Throt became a FLC and didn't have his own OP campaign mechanic.

    Some skaven fans would utterly loose their minds.

    Ghorst was indeed a strange choice since had Kemmler for the necromancer LL already.
    Agreed. Tretch was the only real FLC choice for the Skaven. I really cannot understand how some people argue that Throt would be fine as FLC...

    Ghorst on the other hand was just a terrible decision and CA should never repeat such mistakes.
    What about Deathmaster? He could have been the FLC instead of Tretch, as all Eshin units from the 8th edition were in the game from the start. But CA decided to make all the great skaven clans unique (except the best one - Pestilens) and thus spend more resources on skaven than any other race to date.(if we are to believe that Skaven will be part of the upcoming dlc)
    Well Snikch is a pretty fine addition as DLC. His mechanics are very complex.

    Pestilence being in at launch was a mistake in my opinion. CA should’ve picked Thanny instead of Skrolk and save Pestilence for a DLC.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • DjauDjau Registered Users Posts: 7,707
    There's an entire Great Clan missing from Skaven...what exactly do the other three core WH2 races have missing?
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.

    We're paying full price for a Chaos Warrior of Tzeentch without any actual Tzeentch markings or changes to the model? Change this now CA, #JusticeForTzeentch #TLM
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,913
    edited November 2020
    I would like to see WE vs DE.

    ArneSo said:

    Uagrim said:


    jamreal18 said:

    jamreal18 said:

    Skaven has LL - Throt and Thanquol
    LM, HE and DE - complete

    W1 races still have missing LL. Better CA look at them rather than making LL on races that already have their important LL in the game.

    What HE and LM need are FLC. Annointed of Asuryan and Troglodon. No need to make DLC dedicated to them.

    Just my opinion...

    If you want to go by the rules and who can lead armies, you still have:
    HE:
    - Belannaer the Wise (5th edition)
    - Sea Lord Aislinn (6th edition via SoC)
    DE:
    - Beastlord Rakarth (6th edition via Warhammer Chronicles 2003)
    LM:
    - Quatl of Tlaxtlan (no-name, so no need)
    - I would kind want Tetto'eko, Astronomer of the Constellations. Yeah he is a hero choice on TT and I did not include any hero choices with HE or DE, but he was really important during the ETs, so it's 50/50.

    See, they are far from complete. Yeah they might me closer to completed than Empire, but not yet. And I still want Finubar :smiley:
    But they are not LL material
    You mean like mighty Helman? Or unstoppable Tretch? And what about the mighty Saltspite? Ticktaq’to? Alberic? All these are not LL material and yet they are LL in the game. I think all the characters I listed are better than these characters that made into the game.
    Tretch was a lord choice on TT so all the TT purists should be quiet about him. And for them he was the best choice for a FLC Lord. Imagine if Throt became a FLC and didn't have his own OP campaign mechanic.

    Some skaven fans would utterly loose their minds.

    Ghorst was indeed a strange choice since had Kemmler for the necromancer LL already.
    Agreed. Tretch was the only real FLC choice for the Skaven. I really cannot understand how some people argue that Throt would be fine as FLC...

    Ghorst on the other hand was just a terrible decision and CA should never repeat such mistakes.
    CA already repeated such mistake by making Imrik FLC instead of DLC in Game3.

    animacja-sygn-3.gif


  • YrellianYrellian Registered Users Posts: 1,894
    ArneSo said:

    ArneSo said:

    Uagrim said:


    jamreal18 said:

    jamreal18 said:

    Skaven has LL - Throt and Thanquol
    LM, HE and DE - complete

    W1 races still have missing LL. Better CA look at them rather than making LL on races that already have their important LL in the game.

    What HE and LM need are FLC. Annointed of Asuryan and Troglodon. No need to make DLC dedicated to them.

    Just my opinion...

    If you want to go by the rules and who can lead armies, you still have:
    HE:
    - Belannaer the Wise (5th edition)
    - Sea Lord Aislinn (6th edition via SoC)
    DE:
    - Beastlord Rakarth (6th edition via Warhammer Chronicles 2003)
    LM:
    - Quatl of Tlaxtlan (no-name, so no need)
    - I would kind want Tetto'eko, Astronomer of the Constellations. Yeah he is a hero choice on TT and I did not include any hero choices with HE or DE, but he was really important during the ETs, so it's 50/50.

    See, they are far from complete. Yeah they might me closer to completed than Empire, but not yet. And I still want Finubar :smiley:
    But they are not LL material
    You mean like mighty Helman? Or unstoppable Tretch? And what about the mighty Saltspite? Ticktaq’to? Alberic? All these are not LL material and yet they are LL in the game. I think all the characters I listed are better than these characters that made into the game.
    Tretch was a lord choice on TT so all the TT purists should be quiet about him. And for them he was the best choice for a FLC Lord. Imagine if Throt became a FLC and didn't have his own OP campaign mechanic.

    Some skaven fans would utterly loose their minds.

    Ghorst was indeed a strange choice since had Kemmler for the necromancer LL already.
    Agreed. Tretch was the only real FLC choice for the Skaven. I really cannot understand how some people argue that Throt would be fine as FLC...

    Ghorst on the other hand was just a terrible decision and CA should never repeat such mistakes.
    What about Deathmaster? He could have been the FLC instead of Tretch, as all Eshin units from the 8th edition were in the game from the start. But CA decided to make all the great skaven clans unique (except the best one - Pestilens) and thus spend more resources on skaven than any other race to date.(if we are to believe that Skaven will be part of the upcoming dlc)
    Well Snikch is a pretty fine addition as DLC. His mechanics are very complex.

    Pestilence being in at launch was a mistake in my opinion. CA should’ve picked Thanny instead of Skrolk and save Pestilence for a DLC.
    Yeah, I do like him and all that was added, but he could have been a FLC and nobody would complain, because all the current units were in the game already. CA just wanted to spend the most resources on Skaven, which is something I cannot get behind. I do not have anything againts Skaven as a race, but I do not like how skaven play in TWW. I do not find them fun and because of that I hope that they are not part of the upcoming DLC. Otherwise, I would pay for a DLC that I would not use to it full potential (except for MP, if added units were good)

    His Royal Highness, Phoenix King Finubar!

    "It has been too long since I drew a blade in anger, Tyrion. You have been my sword, and Teclis has been my shield. But now it is time I fought my own battles!"

    I used to be crazycrix, then Epic happened and I became Dubinekdubajs, which I had to change again😀
  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 4,826
    ArneSo said:

    Pocman said:

    The DEs have more in terms of centerpiece than the Skaven, though.


    Palewyrm (wouldn't it be nice taking it from the HE enthusiasts?), Statues of Khaine... Those two units would sell.

    How biased does a person have to be to seriously post such nonsense?

    DE have exactly zero units left. CA could, I repeat, COULD make 1 more LP with a Cult of Khaine theme but even that is still very questionable since it would be more barrel scrapping than the WE side of the LP.

    Skaven on the other hand have enough centrepiece units for at least 2 more LPs and 2 entire Army lists that are still not added.
    - Stormfiends
    - Verminlords
    - Burrowing Behemoth
    - Brood Horrors

    They have so many flashy monsters left that their LPs would sell like Hot cakes.

    Throt LP:
    - Master Mutator Lord
    - Master Moulder Hero
    - Brood Horror
    - Armoured Rat Ogres
    - Mutated Rat Ogres
    - Great Pox Rat
    - Wolf Rats
    - Pack Masters
    - Burrowing Behemoth
    - Chimearat (cheap filler unit)

    So as we can see this is already way to much for 1 single LP so you can cut at least 4 units and save them for another LP.

    Thanny LP:
    - Exalted Verminlord Lord
    - Plague Lord
    - Chieftain Hero (if not the next FLC)
    - Stormfiends (3 variants)
    - Verminlords (unit)
    - Whatever Moulder units are still missing
    Do you realize you have said that DE have zero units left while proposing units that were added in the same forgeworld book than the merwyrm/palewyrm?

    In any case, I must admit I was trolling. If I was the one deciding, this LP would have either been WE vs BM/Chaos, or WE vs dawis/vampires. Not really interested in the already roster bloated game 2 races. So I don't really care about Skavens.


    Imho, moulder should have been added as a FLC instead of Rictus, with the addition of giant rats as a FLC unit.
  • DjauDjau Registered Users Posts: 7,707
    Pocman said:

    ArneSo said:

    Pocman said:

    The DEs have more in terms of centerpiece than the Skaven, though.


    Palewyrm (wouldn't it be nice taking it from the HE enthusiasts?), Statues of Khaine... Those two units would sell.

    How biased does a person have to be to seriously post such nonsense?

    DE have exactly zero units left. CA could, I repeat, COULD make 1 more LP with a Cult of Khaine theme but even that is still very questionable since it would be more barrel scrapping than the WE side of the LP.

    Skaven on the other hand have enough centrepiece units for at least 2 more LPs and 2 entire Army lists that are still not added.
    - Stormfiends
    - Verminlords
    - Burrowing Behemoth
    - Brood Horrors

    They have so many flashy monsters left that their LPs would sell like Hot cakes.

    Throt LP:
    - Master Mutator Lord
    - Master Moulder Hero
    - Brood Horror
    - Armoured Rat Ogres
    - Mutated Rat Ogres
    - Great Pox Rat
    - Wolf Rats
    - Pack Masters
    - Burrowing Behemoth
    - Chimearat (cheap filler unit)

    So as we can see this is already way to much for 1 single LP so you can cut at least 4 units and save them for another LP.

    Thanny LP:
    - Exalted Verminlord Lord
    - Plague Lord
    - Chieftain Hero (if not the next FLC)
    - Stormfiends (3 variants)
    - Verminlords (unit)
    - Whatever Moulder units are still missing
    Do you realize you have said that DE have zero units left while proposing units that were added in the same forgeworld book than the merwyrm/palewyrm?

    In any case, I must admit I was trolling. If I was the one deciding, this LP would have either been WE vs BM/Chaos, or WE vs dawis/vampires. Not really interested in the already roster bloated game 2 races. So I don't really care about Skavens.


    Imho, moulder should have been added as a FLC instead of Rictus, with the addition of giant rats as a FLC unit.
    How can Moulder be FLC when its got an entire army list missing?
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.

    We're paying full price for a Chaos Warrior of Tzeentch without any actual Tzeentch markings or changes to the model? Change this now CA, #JusticeForTzeentch #TLM
  • BigbadbearpieceBigbadbearpiece Registered Users Posts: 112
    edited November 2020
    So much salt in this thread.

    I’m sorry if you don’t like Skaven (none of the core WH2 races are my favourites) but they are the only logical choice for this LP and the OP is completely correct.

    It would be criminal if Moulder isn’t the second half of this DLC.
    More LL for Wood Elves please.
  • YrellianYrellian Registered Users Posts: 1,894

    So much salt in this thread.

    I’m sorry if you don’t like Skaven (none of the core WH2 races are my favourites) but they are the only logical choice for this LP and the OP is completely correct.

    It would be criminal if Moulder isn’t the second half of this DLC.

    Salt? What are you talking about? We are having a little bit of a discussion, I do not see anyone angry about it.

    His Royal Highness, Phoenix King Finubar!

    "It has been too long since I drew a blade in anger, Tyrion. You have been my sword, and Teclis has been my shield. But now it is time I fought my own battles!"

    I used to be crazycrix, then Epic happened and I became Dubinekdubajs, which I had to change again😀
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 24,463

    So much salt in this thread.

    I’m sorry if you don’t like Skaven (none of the core WH2 races are my favourites) but they are the only logical choice for this LP and the OP is completely correct.

    It would be criminal if Moulder isn’t the second half of this DLC.

    Salt? What are you talking about? We are having a little bit of a discussion, I do not see anyone angry about it.
    Have you missed all the HE fanboys being so toxic against anything Skaven related?

    But oh wait I forgot, you are one of them
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 6,740
    Honestly, I'm a bit bummed they said 'Game 2 Race included'.

    I just started Bret's on VH, and they could use an update too.
    Campaign Management is for suckers.

  • uzualuzual Registered Users Posts: 385
    The Next DLC is Sisters of Twilight vs Throt obviously
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 14,661
    edited November 2020
    Surge_2 said:

    Honestly, I'm a bit bummed they said 'Game 2 Race included'.

    I just started Bret's on VH, and they could use an update too.

    ideally WE are most connected to brets and BM than any other race, it should have either been WE vs BM or WE vs+and Bret
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • yolordmcswagyolordmcswag Registered Users Posts: 3,801

    manpersal said:

    Crossil said:

    neodeinos said:

    Eh, WE vs DE would be a very cool theme and I'd actually prefer to see that even if Moulder is the faction I want the most right now.

    There's no theme between WE and DE and both don't even have anything left unit-wise. There's already enough barrel-scraping for the WE, no need to do so for the DE as well.
    Ariel and Morathi have a lot of history together in lore. WE vs DE would be more thematic. I'm not even sure if the WE ever encounter Skaven once in the lore. Beastmen would have been the MOST thematic mode and BM also need the new units and overhaul more than even WE's do.
    There's a little snag here in that Morathi is already in the game, so that's already a non-factor. And BM will not be part of the LP because it's core WH2 races only, so that's also of no relevance. And let's not forget that the entire mini-campaign in WH1 was WE vs BM, even netting BM a free lord and the harpies.

    Skaven don't need any excuse to have quarrel with anyone and generating a conflict betweem WE and Skaven is easier than with any other faction that's left. They are also closer to AL than any other faction.
    And so what? That entire conflict gives WE as a reason more than enough reason to hate the Dark Elves. The same line of logic lead to Skaven vs Lizardmen despite of the fact that Skrolk is already in the game. That was not a snag in the match up. And, of course, WE actually fought DE after that point as well, mostly in assistance to the High Elves.

    You see, that line of logic always bothers me, "Skaven don't need a reason to fight" well, technically, Warhammer is written so that no race needs a reason to fight, they always have a reason to fight, but that doesn't mean whether that reason is a good one.

    And Skaven don't have a good reason. They don't even interact with Wood Elves in their own armybook(7th edition, because someone will point they don't have an 8th edition one).
    WE are mentioned thirce in the DE armybook.

    Once to say that DE don't like the WE because they're keeping themselves aloof from the whole civil war.
    Two is the whole business with Malekith's wife who was murdered by a HE army while on route to Naggaroth from Athel Loren through a scheme by Morathi.
    Three is when Malekith is looking for allies and the WE, predictably, decline to join him and he lets the issue slide because he didn't expect anything of them anyway (see point one).

    Yeah, sorry, as far as the lore is concerned, DE have no actual reason to treat with the WE in any major conflict.

    Skaven have always a good reason to quarrel with anyone: they're evil little creeps bent on world conquest. They're a perversion of nature, so WE would also have a reason to go after them.
    Not like DE, which are peaceful nice fellas. That Malekith has tried to struck an alliance with WE means nothing, he did it with chaos tribes on occasion, but they still fight each other more often than not. Here, several scenarios as possible as SKV vs WE:

    -Malekith decides to punish the WE for not joining him, and the bretonnians for being pals with HE.

    -Ariel decides is time to take her revenge on all the drucchi.

    -Morathi manipulatea some minion to get her revenge on Ariel and the WE.

    -Ariel, priestess of Isha, decides to end the excesses of the Khainites, led by Tullaris. More or less the same theme as the Queen and the Crone, but it wasn't developped in that DLC anyway.

    The only thing going for SKV is that they have more missing units than any 2nd game core race, but it means nothing if we're still getting another DLC before game 3.
    He thought they were valuable enough as allies, he won't risk them joining the HE instead and that's what will happen if he starts warring against them.

    Sorry, but if you want to argue lore, the DE have no reason whatsoever to open aggressions against the WE.

    Ariel is irrelevant because Morathi. Is. Already. In. The. Game.
    Tehenhauin is irrelevant because Skrolk. Is. Already. In. The. Game.

    No wait, they still did a skaven VS lizardmen rivalry anyway. Huh. Strange how that works, wonder if CA could do literally the exact same thing they have done before again.

    But it's still impossible for any new character to have any kind of rivalry with those that exist before! Wait, what? Alith Anar got unique missions against the existing dark elf LLs? Queek got a Karak eight peaks rivalry even though it was in the game? Hellebron gets a special bonus for attacking Morathi specifically? But a rivalry with Morathi is impossible!

    And again, you cherrypick things to sound like you have a point. It's not about the dark elves attacking the wood elves. It's about the wood elves attacking the dark elves. You know, like they have done in the past? Athel Loren isn't even on the vortex map, so it's not like the lordpack could have an attack there anyway.
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 6,740

    Surge_2 said:

    Honestly, I'm a bit bummed they said 'Game 2 Race included'.

    I just started Bret's on VH, and they could use an update too.

    ideally WE are most connected to brets and BM than any other race, it should have either been WE vs BM or WE vs Bret
    Yeah, BM need a focused update though, way more than just a lord pack. A faction reboot pack...
    Campaign Management is for suckers.

  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,847
    edited November 2020

    manpersal said:

    Crossil said:

    neodeinos said:

    Eh, WE vs DE would be a very cool theme and I'd actually prefer to see that even if Moulder is the faction I want the most right now.

    There's no theme between WE and DE and both don't even have anything left unit-wise. There's already enough barrel-scraping for the WE, no need to do so for the DE as well.
    Ariel and Morathi have a lot of history together in lore. WE vs DE would be more thematic. I'm not even sure if the WE ever encounter Skaven once in the lore. Beastmen would have been the MOST thematic mode and BM also need the new units and overhaul more than even WE's do.
    There's a little snag here in that Morathi is already in the game, so that's already a non-factor. And BM will not be part of the LP because it's core WH2 races only, so that's also of no relevance. And let's not forget that the entire mini-campaign in WH1 was WE vs BM, even netting BM a free lord and the harpies.

    Skaven don't need any excuse to have quarrel with anyone and generating a conflict betweem WE and Skaven is easier than with any other faction that's left. They are also closer to AL than any other faction.
    And so what? That entire conflict gives WE as a reason more than enough reason to hate the Dark Elves. The same line of logic lead to Skaven vs Lizardmen despite of the fact that Skrolk is already in the game. That was not a snag in the match up. And, of course, WE actually fought DE after that point as well, mostly in assistance to the High Elves.

    You see, that line of logic always bothers me, "Skaven don't need a reason to fight" well, technically, Warhammer is written so that no race needs a reason to fight, they always have a reason to fight, but that doesn't mean whether that reason is a good one.

    And Skaven don't have a good reason. They don't even interact with Wood Elves in their own armybook(7th edition, because someone will point they don't have an 8th edition one).
    WE are mentioned thirce in the DE armybook.

    Once to say that DE don't like the WE because they're keeping themselves aloof from the whole civil war.
    Two is the whole business with Malekith's wife who was murdered by a HE army while on route to Naggaroth from Athel Loren through a scheme by Morathi.
    Three is when Malekith is looking for allies and the WE, predictably, decline to join him and he lets the issue slide because he didn't expect anything of them anyway (see point one).

    Yeah, sorry, as far as the lore is concerned, DE have no actual reason to treat with the WE in any major conflict.

    Skaven have always a good reason to quarrel with anyone: they're evil little creeps bent on world conquest. They're a perversion of nature, so WE would also have a reason to go after them.
    Not like DE, which are peaceful nice fellas. That Malekith has tried to struck an alliance with WE means nothing, he did it with chaos tribes on occasion, but they still fight each other more often than not. Here, several scenarios as possible as SKV vs WE:

    -Malekith decides to punish the WE for not joining him, and the bretonnians for being pals with HE.

    -Ariel decides is time to take her revenge on all the drucchi.

    -Morathi manipulatea some minion to get her revenge on Ariel and the WE.

    -Ariel, priestess of Isha, decides to end the excesses of the Khainites, led by Tullaris. More or less the same theme as the Queen and the Crone, but it wasn't developped in that DLC anyway.

    The only thing going for SKV is that they have more missing units than any 2nd game core race, but it means nothing if we're still getting another DLC before game 3.
    He thought they were valuable enough as allies, he won't risk them joining the HE instead and that's what will happen if he starts warring against them.

    Sorry, but if you want to argue lore, the DE have no reason whatsoever to open aggressions against the WE.

    Ariel is irrelevant because Morathi. Is. Already. In. The. Game.
    Tehenhauin is irrelevant because Skrolk. Is. Already. In. The. Game.

    No wait, they still did a skaven VS lizardmen rivalry anyway. Huh. Strange how that works, wonder if CA could do literally the exact same thing they have done before again.

    But it's still impossible for any new character to have any kind of rivalry with those that exist before! Wait, what? Alith Anar got unique missions against the existing dark elf LLs? Queek got a Karak eight peaks rivalry even though it was in the game? Hellebron gets a special bonus for attacking Morathi specifically? But a rivalry with Morathi is impossible!

    And again, you cherrypick things to sound like you have a point. It's not about the dark elves attacking the wood elves. It's about the wood elves attacking the dark elves. You know, like they have done in the past? Athel Loren isn't even on the vortex map, so it's not like the lordpack could have an attack there anyway.
    LoL, so you figure Tehenauin is conscious about what Skaven he kills? I bet he couldn't care less about that as long as they are all removed from the world and he says as much in his campaign intro and his special mechanic creates an all-out race war with all Skaven, not just Clan Skryre.

    Not at all similar to WE vs DE since Ariel vs Morathi would be down to personal antipathy, not genocidal racial hatred. Again, Malekith wanted to court them as potential allies and the DE dislike the WE for washing their hands off the whole elven civil war (as do the HE actually) which does not translate into any sort of potential war issue. The DE armybook doesn't even mention any large scale WE attacks, so I guess whatever conflict that was, it wasn't anywhere near as serious as the DE's battle against the HE and Chaos.


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