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Why all TWW2 cavalry units are garbage?

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  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    Surge_2 said:

    I'm not disagreeing with you.

    What's easier? Nerf everything to Cav level or buff cav?

    Buffing cav is out of the question since that just repeats what makes monsters so OP. Ranged units need to be nerfed and the AI be altered so it goes for shootouts instead of ignoring your skirmishers. Monsters are OP thanks to bugs which need fixing, that's not even a question worth debating.
  • Surge_2#1464Surge_2#1464 Registered Users Posts: 11,953
    Alright fair enough.
    Kneel

  • elkappelkapp Registered Users Posts: 1,237

    Surge_2 said:

    psychoak said:

    I read this thread for the entertainment value. I avoided any mad cackling when I read that Dragon Princes were bad, but it was a near thing.

    If you can't kill stuff rear charging with the top tier cavalry units in the game, my guess is you live in rural Arkansas or West Virginia. Stop chasing your sister, that's not what it means.

    It's pretty easy easy to do ~250 kills per top tier heavy cavalry unit. You want to argue against cycle charging? Sure, go for it. Don't pretend they suck though.

    It's child's play to use four units of even mid tier cavalry to scrape off the AI ranged units, blow out the melee line on a flank, and chain route the entire enemy army. With minimal casualties. Without "cycle charging" too.

    If you want to claim it works, fine. Yes, it can work.

    If you think it's efficient, from a SP perspective, I don't think so. They are simply not good enough in relation to other options.
    But that's because those options are massively OP and aided by bad AI prioritization, not because cavalry is bad.
    Ahhhhhh, ****'s bad because others are good. I mean, you can either call what's good rn "op" as well as you can call "garbage" what don't work. Either way there's a balance problem.

    Surge_2 said:

    I'm not disagreeing with you.

    What's easier? Nerf everything to Cav level or buff cav?

    there is way too freaking buffs so nerf. yes

    adding more buffs is not the solution
    Sir, same **** for you, but not totally. I mean you can say whatever you want but the strongest unit in the game (sisters, mammoths, ratling, necrofex) are strong even without extra stats. There are situations where units become op cause buffs (like slayers in Ungrim's army), but to me at least seems like the problematic op units are op from the start.

    Also, that's a bit personal, but i think buffs and upgrades in general are not bad by themselves, but what's really bad are units whose roles are impossible from the start either because of **** stats (cav, most "mobile" ranged,...) or of tactical flexibility (melee infantry, MF anti-hero single entites,...). If the foundations work buffs (while not in excessive or game breaking ammount) should by logic work or at least don't create problems.
  • elkappelkapp Registered Users Posts: 1,237

    Monsters are OP thanks to bugs which need fixing,

    What bugs? You mean high mass? Heal? The fact that they don't lose stats while being damaged?
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    edited November 2020
    elkapp said:

    Monsters are OP thanks to bugs which need fixing,

    What bugs? You mean high mass? Heal? The fact that they don't lose stats while being damaged?
    Normally infantry units have varying degrees of resistance to knockdowns, but a bug renders it ineffective and monsters always get knockdowns on infantry upon charging and certain high mass attack animations. The worst thing is that most of the other balance fails are down to CA ignoring this bug and balancing around it instead which is why ranged units are so strong and why so many DLCs added abilities that restrict movement in some way. The big mistake here was that CA also ignored that anything balanced to counter OP monsters is even more effective on non OP units.
  • Jman5#8318Jman5#8318 Registered Users Posts: 2,167

    Surge_2 said:

    I'm not disagreeing with you.

    What's easier? Nerf everything to Cav level or buff cav?

    Buffing cav is out of the question since that just repeats what makes monsters so OP. Ranged units need to be nerfed and the AI be altered so it goes for shootouts instead of ignoring your skirmishers. Monsters are OP thanks to bugs which need fixing, that's not even a question worth debating.
    Poor counter-volley issue is definitely a problem, but another really bad problem is the AI re-targeting something else whenever a range unit stops attacking and skirmishes backward. This is causing big problems with the AI's infantry and cavalry actually going after the player's ranged units. It's a big contributing factor to the bunching problem as they tend to focus on whatever unit that is nearby and attacking. So they'll U-turn and go after that hero out in front that is already surrounded by 3 other units.
  • jamesbluewavejamesbluewave Registered Users Posts: 531

    elkapp said:

    Monsters are OP thanks to bugs which need fixing,

    What bugs? You mean high mass? Heal? The fact that they don't lose stats while being damaged?
    Normally infantry units have varying degrees of resistance to knockdowns, but a bug renders it ineffective and monsters always get knockdowns on infantry upon charging and certain high mass attack animations. The worst thing is that most of the other balance fails are down to CA ignoring this bug and balancing around it instead which is why ranged units are so strong and why so many DLCs added abilities that restrict movement in some way. The big mistake here was that CA also ignored that anything balanced to counter OP monsters is even more effective on non OP units.
    Interesting! Huh, didn’t realize that’s what was happening.
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