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The Discourse around this DLC is unpleasant (from both sides)

135

Comments

  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 3,942

    I'm willing to forgive them if they give Scarloc in Laurelorn Forest or Bowmen of Oreon

    You are gonna have to hold on to that "foregiveness" (as if CA has wronged you *rolls eyes*), since Scarloc is never going to be included in the game, since he is a pathetic character with nothing going for him..
    Skaven are boring to me. I don't want to play as mutant rats and evil trees, I want an elf shooter, an elite commando punishing enemies outside the forest. That's what's fun, not sad rats with trees.

    If the CA fulfills this need, there is still time, they will gain credibility and recognition.
    The Twins are both "elite archers" and have infinitely more background and gravitas than Scarloc could ever have... Also, ALL Wood Elves are by definition elite... Araloth is more interesting than Scarloc... And both of those characters can effectively be made by recruiting a Glade Lord... So basically asking for Scarloc is setting yourself up for disappointment since he is never going to be included, until ALL other Wood Elf options are exhausted..
    The sisters are a flying monster squad. Araloth is a duelist ruler. Only Scarloc is an Archer, master of ambushes, special forces exterminating enemies outside the forest. Its uniqueness and importance as a Lord is obvious and we need to get it in advance, before the next rework.
    I should know better than to try and enlighten people with no grasp of the lore... Oh well...
    All dwarves have no differences between each other. Queek and Tretch are the same. They can be used according to your logic. A scarloc foot Archer for a faction of archers can not be. There are big problems with your logic and arguments.

    By YOUR logic all Dwarfs are vastly different. Belegar is a Hammer and Shield warrior, Ungrim is a Slayer, Thorgrim is carried on his throne and The White Dwarf wields a Greatweapon....

    By MY logic they are each supremely important characters to the Dwarf lore, and the setting in general, and as such are worthy of inclusion.

    You defeated yourself with your own "logic" while mine stands unattested. Good job.
  • peabodyestatepeabodyestate Registered Users Posts: 623
    edited November 2020
    I dont get any of it. I dont remember any promises to release new content every 10 minutes, people analyse previous release times like its a vaccine.

    Every DLC has been worth the money.

    Everytime CA make any kind of communication, people throw their toys out the pram. Yesterday it was the economy is ruined and the game isnt fun yada yada. That got dispelled today. Today its their arent enough unit variants yada yada, likely to be disproved in the coming week.

    If you dont like McDonalds, go to Burger King. Do it quietly. You are owed nothing.

    [Quote]
    Units:
    1. Spites
    2. Meadow Chariots
    3. Hounds
    4. And the other animals, especially Wild Cats
    5. Laith-Kourn
    6. Naiads - I would prefer them for th Bretonnia, but they are a valid option

    Variants:
    1. Arrow variants
    2. Visually distinctive Dryad variants
    [/Quote]


    This is a good reasonable post with no bloodshed. But i disagree, if this is all Woodies have left to offer, they are doner than done.
  • veresh1989veresh1989 Russia, Saint-PetersburgRegistered Users Posts: 2,665
    Laindesh said:

    I'm willing to forgive them if they give Scarloc in Laurelorn Forest or Bowmen of Oreon

    You are gonna have to hold on to that "foregiveness" (as if CA has wronged you *rolls eyes*), since Scarloc is never going to be included in the game, since he is a pathetic character with nothing going for him..
    Skaven are boring to me. I don't want to play as mutant rats and evil trees, I want an elf shooter, an elite commando punishing enemies outside the forest. That's what's fun, not sad rats with trees.

    If the CA fulfills this need, there is still time, they will gain credibility and recognition.
    The Twins are both "elite archers" and have infinitely more background and gravitas than Scarloc could ever have... Also, ALL Wood Elves are by definition elite... Araloth is more interesting than Scarloc... And both of those characters can effectively be made by recruiting a Glade Lord... So basically asking for Scarloc is setting yourself up for disappointment since he is never going to be included, until ALL other Wood Elf options are exhausted..
    The sisters are a flying monster squad. Araloth is a duelist ruler. Only Scarloc is an Archer, master of ambushes, special forces exterminating enemies outside the forest. Its uniqueness and importance as a Lord is obvious and we need to get it in advance, before the next rework.
    Can you guys stop spilling that topic all over the forum? Make a thread on it and discuss it there.

    This thread is about how the community behaves and responded after CA unleashed info on part of the content on us.
    So let them give this very content that I'm talking about. This is the minimum cost and maximum result for the benefit of the community.

    Then I will say that you did well, that 7 months of waiting were not for me not to play for the Skaven and the evil tree.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,307
    @GreatGreyWolfSif

    I totally agree (and love your name) but regardless LOTW has cast much doubt over the update and things do need to be balanced for Legendary difficulty as well, so if he's right, that's a legit issue and people are right to be concerned due to his statements.

    I myself am concerned, that doesn't mean I think he's 100% correct or even really care personally about Legendary difficulty balance for my own experience because I don't play it. but I still want the game to be the best it can be for everyone and thus I am worried about how their new balance is going to play out.
  • ROMOBOYROMOBOY Registered Users Posts: 2,851
    Heinzu said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    I don’t get why people think Wood Elves should have a booming economy. They’re hippies who devote themselves entirely to saving forests. That’s not exactly a wealthy industry.

    How exactly would you like to defeat factions with 40 and more settlements? Economy nerf is definitely mistake.
    @Heinzu

    It’s a strategy game. There’s multiple options.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
  • LaindeshLaindesh Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,843

    @GreatGreyWolfSif

    I totally agree (and love your name) but regardless LOTW has cast much doubt over the update and things do need to be balanced for Legendary difficulty as well, so if he's right, that's a legit issue and people are right to be concerned due to his statements.

    I myself am concerned, that doesn't mean I think he's 100% correct or even really care personally about Legendary difficulty balance for my own experience because I don't play it. but I still want the game to be the best it can be for everyone and thus I am worried about how their new balance is going to play out.

    Go watch zerkovich (its on twitch). He plays in a different way than LoTW and his campaign turned out completely different. His video is literally partly called "No cheese" :P
  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 6,008
    edited November 2020
    Oh well, it took an eternity but the overall content seems good to me. Apart from the ridiculous waiting I personally find no reason to be upset. But overall you're not wrong.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 3,942
    edited November 2020
    Heinzu said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    I don’t get why people think Wood Elves should have a booming economy. They’re hippies who devote themselves entirely to saving forests. That’s not exactly a wealthy industry.

    How exactly would you like to defeat factions with 40 and more settlements? Economy nerf is definitely mistake.
    Why are you playing Wood Elves if "to defeat factions with 40 or more settlements" is your main objective?
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,307
    @peabodyestate

    DLC's for this series aren't meant to simply add things that are 100% essential to x faction from a functional perspective, there is merit in variety and adding things for lore reasons or to make the game/faction more interesting and fun.

    The Wood Elves are missing a ton of stuff from characters to units to generic lords and heroes, and if we want to talk functionality, some of it is very functional (we still don't have an actual honest to god Elf Lord yet since the sisters are basically an eagle/dragon lord).

    They're still missing

    LL/LH:

    Araloth, Amadri Ironbark, Daith as a playable LL/LH (we'll see if he shows up this time), Naieth (pure caster lord, actually important from a functional perspective), Scarloc, Skaw the Falconer, Thalandor Doomstar, Wychwethyl the Wild and Gruarth The Beastmaster.

    Generic Lords/Heroes:

    Beastmasters, Shadow Dancers,

    Units:

    Dryad aspects (actual visual differences, animations, etc), eternal wardens, Naiads, Wildwood Wardens, Unicorns, Guardian Trees, Shapechangers, Sabretoothed cats, Wild big cats, wolves, boars and bears, Spite's/spite host, White Harts of the forest, Wind Riders, Meadow Chariots, Laith-Kourn, arrow variants, Kindred axemen, Incarnate of Beasts, etc.

    The faction has a metric ton of stuff left to implement and many of these things have a legit functionality to them, not just there simply for decoration.
  • veresh1989veresh1989 Russia, Saint-PetersburgRegistered Users Posts: 2,665

    I'm willing to forgive them if they give Scarloc in Laurelorn Forest or Bowmen of Oreon

    You are gonna have to hold on to that "foregiveness" (as if CA has wronged you *rolls eyes*), since Scarloc is never going to be included in the game, since he is a pathetic character with nothing going for him..
    Skaven are boring to me. I don't want to play as mutant rats and evil trees, I want an elf shooter, an elite commando punishing enemies outside the forest. That's what's fun, not sad rats with trees.

    If the CA fulfills this need, there is still time, they will gain credibility and recognition.
    The Twins are both "elite archers" and have infinitely more background and gravitas than Scarloc could ever have... Also, ALL Wood Elves are by definition elite... Araloth is more interesting than Scarloc... And both of those characters can effectively be made by recruiting a Glade Lord... So basically asking for Scarloc is setting yourself up for disappointment since he is never going to be included, until ALL other Wood Elf options are exhausted..
    The sisters are a flying monster squad. Araloth is a duelist ruler. Only Scarloc is an Archer, master of ambushes, special forces exterminating enemies outside the forest. Its uniqueness and importance as a Lord is obvious and we need to get it in advance, before the next rework.
    I should know better than to try and enlighten people with no grasp of the lore... Oh well...
    All dwarves have no differences between each other. Queek and Tretch are the same. They can be used according to your logic. A scarloc foot Archer for a faction of archers can not be. There are big problems with your logic and arguments.

    By YOUR logic all Dwarfs are vastly different. Belegar is a Hammer and Shield warrior, Ungrim is a Slayer, Thorgrim is carried on his throne and The White Dwarf wields a Greatweapon....

    By MY logic they are each supremely important characters to the Dwarf lore, and the setting in general, and as such are worthy of inclusion.

    You defeated yourself with your own "logic" while mine stands unattested. Good job.
    They are all the same melee warriors. A lot of unnecessary kings. By your logic, there should be one Thorgrim as the Supreme king of these fighters. No one else should be there, since they are the same.

    Clan Mors and Clan Rictus they are not great. They are the same and their lords are the same. But we got them both. And you're preventing me from getting a unique character for my faction.

    This means that your logic and arguments are completely biased.
  • GreatGreyWolfSifGreatGreyWolfSif Registered Users Posts: 63

    @GreatGreyWolfSif

    I totally agree (and love your name) but regardless LOTW has cast much doubt over the update and things do need to be balanced for Legendary difficulty as well, so if he's right, that's a legit issue and people are right to be concerned due to his statements.

    I myself am concerned, that doesn't mean I think he's 100% correct or even really care personally about Legendary difficulty balance for my own experience because I don't play it. but I still want the game to be the best it can be for everyone and thus I am worried about how their new balance is going to play out.

    I wasn't dismissing his criticisms, just trying to give a different perspective on how those criticisms might be unfounded. It's prefectly reasonable to be wary of the changes especially if your used to playing the game a certain way like he is but I advocate caution to heeding his advice if you don't play on the hardest difficulty.

    I myself haven't actually played the vanilla Woodelves previously. I was going to start a campaign as them but saw that the next DLC was for them so decided to wait till they had thier DLC. So once I play them i won't have any previous experience so the act of playing them will be fresh and new for me. Maybe my opinoin would be different if i'd play them before I don't know.

    It's fine to be concerned about the changes, I'm not trying to dismiss your concerns, just trying to provide a counter point to something I think people are misunderstanding with the 'nerfs'.
  • peabodyestatepeabodyestate Registered Users Posts: 623

    @peabodyestate

    DLC's for this series aren't meant to simply add things that are 100% essential to x faction from a functional perspective, there is merit in variety and adding things for lore reasons or to make the game/faction more interesting and fun.

    The Wood Elves are missing a ton of stuff from characters to units to generic lords and heroes, and if we want to talk functionality, some of it is very functional (we still don't have an actual honest to god Elf Lord yet since the sisters are basically an eagle/dragon lord).

    They're still missing

    LL/LH:

    Araloth, Amadri Ironbark, Daith as a playable LL/LH (we'll see if he shows up this time), Naieth (pure caster lord, actually important from a functional perspective), Scarloc, Skaw the Falconer, Thalandor Doomstar, Wychwethyl the Wild and Gruarth The Beastmaster.

    Generic Lords/Heroes:

    Beastmasters, Shadow Dancers,

    Units:

    Dryad aspects (actual visual differences, animations, etc), eternal wardens, Naiads, Wildwood Wardens, Unicorns, Guardian Trees, Shapechangers, Sabretoothed cats, Wild big cats, wolves, boars and bears, Spite's/spite host, White Harts of the forest, Wind Riders, Meadow Chariots, Laith-Kourn, arrow variants, Kindred axemen, Incarnate of Beasts, etc.

    The faction has a metric ton of stuff left to implement and many of these things have a legit functionality to them, not just there simply for decoration.

    Hat goes off to you. Some of that stuff is pants. But some of it is great for sure.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,876
    Zekerath said:

    In defence of Great Stag Knights and Zoats: both have new animations*, but yes, both are also remodels. It is especially visible on the Zoat model, it should be bulkier and its legs structure is all wrong - it is a Dragon Ogre in a cosplay after all.

    *idle and charge for GSK and casting animation for a Zoat(I don't remember Dragon Ogres and Shaggots having it, but I might be not-right)


    What pains me the most is the lack of Spites unit and Shadowdancer hero. The Sisters are air focused faction, yet there is not even one air unit in the LP. Bat sized Spites would add a lot to them, and to Drycha too.


    eomat said:

    I'm interested to see the extra stuff that they are adding if we own all the DLC and game. So far CA have not only managed to make a DLC but a full magnificent rework and add extra stuff to a Race that was pretty much considered complete.

    Personally the only thing I still want is the Shadowdancer and it looks like we won't get that.

    I think they are far from completed.

    H: Shadowdancer

    Units:
    1. Spites
    2. Meadow Chariots
    3. Hounds
    4. And the other animals, especially Wild Cats
    5. Laith-Kourn
    6. Naiads - I would prefer them for th Bretonnia, but they are a valid option

    Variants:
    1. Arrow variants
    2. Visually distinctive Dryad variants
    Seeing how the glade captain has skills named after Loec, and one skill in particular that seems to give them a dance not unlike what wardancers have and gives wardancers and bladesingers vanguard, I think CA has simply merged shadowdancer with the glade captain. And as I have said in another thread, I don't think wood elves particularly need another spellcaster hero, especially since branchwraiths have access to lore of shadow spells that would be fitting to shadowdancer (in that respect, shadowdancer has been split between branchwraith and glade captain).

    So as much as I'd love to see shadowdancers too, I'm not particularly holding my breath.
    If that's true then it is a mistake. Shadowdancers should come with dances and lore of shadows.



    - The units and generic heroes we're getting, love them or hate them, are mostly re-skins, even the Zoats seemingly.
    I would say it's in line with previous dlcs, Great stag models are great, Zoats do seem to use dragon ogre chasis but still look nice. I would only be disappointed if I had unrealistic expectations about this dlc surpassing all the previous ones.

    No, absolutely not. Let's look at P&W:

    LL: Grom - new animations

    H: Giant River Hag Troll - new animations beyond those used by River Trolls

    1. Snotling Pump Wagons - new model and new animations
    2. River Trolls - new model and new animations
    3. Rogue Idol - new model and new animations
    4. Stone Dragons - recolour

    This LP is the first ever DLC for DLC, it should convince customers that paying twice will be worth it. So far every WE unit is a remodel and the Sisters new mechanic appears to be extremely lacklustre in comparison to Throt's labolatory.

    It should be better than the best LP ever, but it is not. It is in fact worse than the GS side of the last LP.


    This is a good reasonable post with no bloodshed. But i disagree, if this is all Woodies have left to offer, they are doner than done.

    I must disagree. Most of these units would flesh out the forest spirit side of the WE.
    animacja-sygn-3.gif


  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 3,942

    I'm willing to forgive them if they give Scarloc in Laurelorn Forest or Bowmen of Oreon

    You are gonna have to hold on to that "foregiveness" (as if CA has wronged you *rolls eyes*), since Scarloc is never going to be included in the game, since he is a pathetic character with nothing going for him..
    Skaven are boring to me. I don't want to play as mutant rats and evil trees, I want an elf shooter, an elite commando punishing enemies outside the forest. That's what's fun, not sad rats with trees.

    If the CA fulfills this need, there is still time, they will gain credibility and recognition.
    The Twins are both "elite archers" and have infinitely more background and gravitas than Scarloc could ever have... Also, ALL Wood Elves are by definition elite... Araloth is more interesting than Scarloc... And both of those characters can effectively be made by recruiting a Glade Lord... So basically asking for Scarloc is setting yourself up for disappointment since he is never going to be included, until ALL other Wood Elf options are exhausted..
    The sisters are a flying monster squad. Araloth is a duelist ruler. Only Scarloc is an Archer, master of ambushes, special forces exterminating enemies outside the forest. Its uniqueness and importance as a Lord is obvious and we need to get it in advance, before the next rework.
    I should know better than to try and enlighten people with no grasp of the lore... Oh well...
    All dwarves have no differences between each other. Queek and Tretch are the same. They can be used according to your logic. A scarloc foot Archer for a faction of archers can not be. There are big problems with your logic and arguments.

    By YOUR logic all Dwarfs are vastly different. Belegar is a Hammer and Shield warrior, Ungrim is a Slayer, Thorgrim is carried on his throne and The White Dwarf wields a Greatweapon....

    By MY logic they are each supremely important characters to the Dwarf lore, and the setting in general, and as such are worthy of inclusion.

    You defeated yourself with your own "logic" while mine stands unattested. Good job.
    They are all the same melee warriors. A lot of unnecessary kings. By your logic, there should be one Thorgrim as the Supreme king of these fighters. No one else should be there, since they are the same.

    Clan Mors and Clan Rictus they are not great. They are the same and their lords are the same. But we got them both. And you're preventing me from getting a unique character for my faction.

    This means that your logic and arguments are completely biased.
    Wow, you cannot even commit to your own logic... Now you try to backpedal.. You should probably stop now kiddo, you are starting to embarass yourself..
  • HeinzuHeinzu Registered Users Posts: 924

    Heinzu said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    I don’t get why people think Wood Elves should have a booming economy. They’re hippies who devote themselves entirely to saving forests. That’s not exactly a wealthy industry.

    How exactly would you like to defeat factions with 40 and more settlements? Economy nerf is definitely mistake.
    Why are you playing Wood Elves if "to defeat factions with 40 or more settlements" is your main objective?
    It doesn't matter what your objective is. It's game over if Grimgor gets strong and calls a waagh.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 3,942
    Heinzu said:

    Heinzu said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    I don’t get why people think Wood Elves should have a booming economy. They’re hippies who devote themselves entirely to saving forests. That’s not exactly a wealthy industry.

    How exactly would you like to defeat factions with 40 and more settlements? Economy nerf is definitely mistake.
    Why are you playing Wood Elves if "to defeat factions with 40 or more settlements" is your main objective?
    It doesn't matter what your objective is. It's game over if Grimgor gets strong and calls a waagh.
    Why would you think that?
  • LaindeshLaindesh Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,843

    Zekerath said:

    In defence of Great Stag Knights and Zoats: both have new animations*, but yes, both are also remodels. It is especially visible on the Zoat model, it should be bulkier and its legs structure is all wrong - it is a Dragon Ogre in a cosplay after all.

    *idle and charge for GSK and casting animation for a Zoat(I don't remember Dragon Ogres and Shaggots having it, but I might be not-right)


    What pains me the most is the lack of Spites unit and Shadowdancer hero. The Sisters are air focused faction, yet there is not even one air unit in the LP. Bat sized Spites would add a lot to them, and to Drycha too.


    eomat said:

    I'm interested to see the extra stuff that they are adding if we own all the DLC and game. So far CA have not only managed to make a DLC but a full magnificent rework and add extra stuff to a Race that was pretty much considered complete.

    Personally the only thing I still want is the Shadowdancer and it looks like we won't get that.

    I think they are far from completed.

    H: Shadowdancer

    Units:
    1. Spites
    2. Meadow Chariots
    3. Hounds
    4. And the other animals, especially Wild Cats
    5. Laith-Kourn
    6. Naiads - I would prefer them for th Bretonnia, but they are a valid option

    Variants:
    1. Arrow variants
    2. Visually distinctive Dryad variants
    Seeing how the glade captain has skills named after Loec, and one skill in particular that seems to give them a dance not unlike what wardancers have and gives wardancers and bladesingers vanguard, I think CA has simply merged shadowdancer with the glade captain. And as I have said in another thread, I don't think wood elves particularly need another spellcaster hero, especially since branchwraiths have access to lore of shadow spells that would be fitting to shadowdancer (in that respect, shadowdancer has been split between branchwraith and glade captain).

    So as much as I'd love to see shadowdancers too, I'm not particularly holding my breath.
    If that's true then it is a mistake. Shadowdancers should come with dances and lore of shadows.



    - The units and generic heroes we're getting, love them or hate them, are mostly re-skins, even the Zoats seemingly.
    I would say it's in line with previous dlcs, Great stag models are great, Zoats do seem to use dragon ogre chasis but still look nice. I would only be disappointed if I had unrealistic expectations about this dlc surpassing all the previous ones.

    No, absolutely not. Let's look at P&W:

    LL: Grom - new animations

    H: Giant River Hag Troll - new animations beyond those used by River Trolls

    1. Snotling Pump Wagons - new model and new animations
    2. River Trolls - new model and new animations
    3. Rogue Idol - new model and new animations
    4. Stone Dragons - recolour

    This LP is the first ever DLC for DLC, it should convince customers that paying twice will be worth it. So far every WE unit is a remodel and the Sisters new mechanic appears to be extremely lacklustre in comparison to Throt's labolatory.

    It should be better than the best LP ever, but it is not. It is in fact worse than the GS side of the last LP.


    This is a good reasonable post with no bloodshed. But i disagree, if this is all Woodies have left to offer, they are doner than done.

    I must disagree. Most of these units would flesh out the forest spirit side of the WE.
    You do not need to own game one nor RotWE to play this DLC though. So no they don't have to put more effort into the twilight DLC than usual. (Also: Sisters, Ariel, Throt and Ghoritch all with new animations etc makes up for whats missing with units).

    Drycha and rework is where they have to prove its worth getting game 1 and RotWE for.
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 4,233
    I'm going to keep feeding on the juicy tears of knife-ear fans tyvm.

    I'm also going to keep the opinion that whit knights deserve nothing but the cleansing flames of a warpfire thrower.

  • LaindeshLaindesh Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,843
    Reeks said:

    I'm going to keep feeding on the juicy tears of knife-ear fans tyvm.

    I'm also going to keep the opinion that whit knights deserve nothing but the cleansing flames of a warpfire thrower.

    I've stocked up lots of salt, i'm all eating so need a great amount of it :)
  • MrDragonMrDragon Registered Users Posts: 1,613
    edited November 2020
    Yes both sides are being obnoxious as all hell but this OP is indeed grandstanding.

    FYI: Companies rarely make promises. If what they stated in the blog is different then what we are potentially getting that doesn't matter one single bit if all the marketing now that it's being released is truthful. Plans change, content gets scrapped or added or altered.

    CA doesn't "owe" us anything other than delivering the product they are advertising us in the marketing in exchange for the money we hand over.


    For or against the only thing that matters is the following line of code for your brain.

    Content of the DLC ≥ Money spent
    If true: Buy the DLC
    If false: Do nothing

  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,876
    Laindesh said:

    Zekerath said:

    In defence of Great Stag Knights and Zoats: both have new animations*, but yes, both are also remodels. It is especially visible on the Zoat model, it should be bulkier and its legs structure is all wrong - it is a Dragon Ogre in a cosplay after all.

    *idle and charge for GSK and casting animation for a Zoat(I don't remember Dragon Ogres and Shaggots having it, but I might be not-right)


    What pains me the most is the lack of Spites unit and Shadowdancer hero. The Sisters are air focused faction, yet there is not even one air unit in the LP. Bat sized Spites would add a lot to them, and to Drycha too.


    eomat said:

    I'm interested to see the extra stuff that they are adding if we own all the DLC and game. So far CA have not only managed to make a DLC but a full magnificent rework and add extra stuff to a Race that was pretty much considered complete.

    Personally the only thing I still want is the Shadowdancer and it looks like we won't get that.

    I think they are far from completed.

    H: Shadowdancer

    Units:
    1. Spites
    2. Meadow Chariots
    3. Hounds
    4. And the other animals, especially Wild Cats
    5. Laith-Kourn
    6. Naiads - I would prefer them for th Bretonnia, but they are a valid option

    Variants:
    1. Arrow variants
    2. Visually distinctive Dryad variants
    Seeing how the glade captain has skills named after Loec, and one skill in particular that seems to give them a dance not unlike what wardancers have and gives wardancers and bladesingers vanguard, I think CA has simply merged shadowdancer with the glade captain. And as I have said in another thread, I don't think wood elves particularly need another spellcaster hero, especially since branchwraiths have access to lore of shadow spells that would be fitting to shadowdancer (in that respect, shadowdancer has been split between branchwraith and glade captain).

    So as much as I'd love to see shadowdancers too, I'm not particularly holding my breath.
    If that's true then it is a mistake. Shadowdancers should come with dances and lore of shadows.



    - The units and generic heroes we're getting, love them or hate them, are mostly re-skins, even the Zoats seemingly.
    I would say it's in line with previous dlcs, Great stag models are great, Zoats do seem to use dragon ogre chasis but still look nice. I would only be disappointed if I had unrealistic expectations about this dlc surpassing all the previous ones.

    No, absolutely not. Let's look at P&W:

    LL: Grom - new animations

    H: Giant River Hag Troll - new animations beyond those used by River Trolls

    1. Snotling Pump Wagons - new model and new animations
    2. River Trolls - new model and new animations
    3. Rogue Idol - new model and new animations
    4. Stone Dragons - recolour

    This LP is the first ever DLC for DLC, it should convince customers that paying twice will be worth it. So far every WE unit is a remodel and the Sisters new mechanic appears to be extremely lacklustre in comparison to Throt's labolatory.

    It should be better than the best LP ever, but it is not. It is in fact worse than the GS side of the last LP.


    This is a good reasonable post with no bloodshed. But i disagree, if this is all Woodies have left to offer, they are doner than done.

    I must disagree. Most of these units would flesh out the forest spirit side of the WE.
    You do not need to own game one nor RotWE to play this DLC though. So no they don't have to put more effort into the twilight DLC than usual. (Also: Sisters, Ariel, Throt and Ghoritch all with new animations etc makes up for whats missing with units).

    Drycha and rework is where they have to prove its worth getting game 1 and RotWE for.
    Only on the Vortex map. Yes, they do have to put more effort into the Twilight DLC because they are selling the WE for the second time, it's a matter of business practice, treatment of those who already own the WE DLC. It was CA's golden opportunity to show their customers that paying twice is worth it. DLC for DLC is a controversial subject for a reason.
    animacja-sygn-3.gif


  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 3,942

    Laindesh said:

    Zekerath said:

    In defence of Great Stag Knights and Zoats: both have new animations*, but yes, both are also remodels. It is especially visible on the Zoat model, it should be bulkier and its legs structure is all wrong - it is a Dragon Ogre in a cosplay after all.

    *idle and charge for GSK and casting animation for a Zoat(I don't remember Dragon Ogres and Shaggots having it, but I might be not-right)


    What pains me the most is the lack of Spites unit and Shadowdancer hero. The Sisters are air focused faction, yet there is not even one air unit in the LP. Bat sized Spites would add a lot to them, and to Drycha too.


    eomat said:

    I'm interested to see the extra stuff that they are adding if we own all the DLC and game. So far CA have not only managed to make a DLC but a full magnificent rework and add extra stuff to a Race that was pretty much considered complete.

    Personally the only thing I still want is the Shadowdancer and it looks like we won't get that.

    I think they are far from completed.

    H: Shadowdancer

    Units:
    1. Spites
    2. Meadow Chariots
    3. Hounds
    4. And the other animals, especially Wild Cats
    5. Laith-Kourn
    6. Naiads - I would prefer them for th Bretonnia, but they are a valid option

    Variants:
    1. Arrow variants
    2. Visually distinctive Dryad variants
    Seeing how the glade captain has skills named after Loec, and one skill in particular that seems to give them a dance not unlike what wardancers have and gives wardancers and bladesingers vanguard, I think CA has simply merged shadowdancer with the glade captain. And as I have said in another thread, I don't think wood elves particularly need another spellcaster hero, especially since branchwraiths have access to lore of shadow spells that would be fitting to shadowdancer (in that respect, shadowdancer has been split between branchwraith and glade captain).

    So as much as I'd love to see shadowdancers too, I'm not particularly holding my breath.
    If that's true then it is a mistake. Shadowdancers should come with dances and lore of shadows.



    - The units and generic heroes we're getting, love them or hate them, are mostly re-skins, even the Zoats seemingly.
    I would say it's in line with previous dlcs, Great stag models are great, Zoats do seem to use dragon ogre chasis but still look nice. I would only be disappointed if I had unrealistic expectations about this dlc surpassing all the previous ones.

    No, absolutely not. Let's look at P&W:

    LL: Grom - new animations

    H: Giant River Hag Troll - new animations beyond those used by River Trolls

    1. Snotling Pump Wagons - new model and new animations
    2. River Trolls - new model and new animations
    3. Rogue Idol - new model and new animations
    4. Stone Dragons - recolour

    This LP is the first ever DLC for DLC, it should convince customers that paying twice will be worth it. So far every WE unit is a remodel and the Sisters new mechanic appears to be extremely lacklustre in comparison to Throt's labolatory.

    It should be better than the best LP ever, but it is not. It is in fact worse than the GS side of the last LP.


    This is a good reasonable post with no bloodshed. But i disagree, if this is all Woodies have left to offer, they are doner than done.

    I must disagree. Most of these units would flesh out the forest spirit side of the WE.
    You do not need to own game one nor RotWE to play this DLC though. So no they don't have to put more effort into the twilight DLC than usual. (Also: Sisters, Ariel, Throt and Ghoritch all with new animations etc makes up for whats missing with units).

    Drycha and rework is where they have to prove its worth getting game 1 and RotWE for.
    Only on the Vortex map. Yes, they do have to put more effort into the Twilight DLC because they are selling the WE for the second time, it's a matter of business practice, treatment of those who already own the WE DLC. It was CA's golden opportunity to show their customers that paying twice is worth it. DLC for DLC is a controversial subject for a reason.
    They are selling the Wood Elves with additional Skaven content for less than half the price of the original Wood Elves DLC. CA has to do nothing.
  • Rubz2293Rubz2293 Registered Users Posts: 244

    We have yet to see everything this DLC has to offer, as CA keep Drycha's units/variants under wraps, yet the reveal of the Twisted and the Twilight has upset many people (myself included) in one way or another and I'd argue there are many reasons to be concerned or disappointed.

    - This DLC took 7 months.

    - We had the usual communication issues, unless Drycha is hiding a ton of stuff CA may have straight up lied to us.

    - Reports are coming in that the Wood Elves have received a big nerf in campaign and possibly MP as well.

    - CA has tried to fix Footlords but thrown the baby out with the bathwater and potentially nerfed squishy characters into the dirt.

    - The units and generic heroes we're getting, love them or hate them, are mostly re-skins, even the Zoats seemingly.

    - Many of the Wood Elves problems and parts of their lore have been straight up ignored from what we know right now.

    - They still don't have all their lores.

    - This could very well be the final content for the Wood Elves ever (if it is that's really bad, even if what we got here ends up being a net-good).


    Naturally when people get upset online they freak out or lash out and online discourse is notoriously toxic (though I've yet to see any straight up abuse personally) people are getting angry and turning on CA big time, going all out against them, saying they were never good, etc.

    However, on the otherside (as I've seen happen every single time new content is released) people are Simping for CA HARD! calling all people with issues whining entitled babies, saying this is the best **** we've ever seen, demanding other people buy it even if they don't want it simply because they think it will increase the likelihood of a Beastmen DLC in the future, etc.

    I plan on making a measured response to the DLC after the Drycha's free stuff, an attempt to reasonably and respectfully voice concerns about the bad and preach about the good, but I wanted to make this post before then because I just can't stand all this bs back and forth.


    So I just wanna make a public service announcement to everyone and say:

    - Stop apologising for and blindly defending the games industry! they're here to exploit you first and foremost.

    - Remember the devs are humans that have been working very hard under lockdown conditions to provide us this content.

    - Remember that any and all problems with the coming content, with the choice of characters or units, dodgy execution etc are 9 times out of 10 going to be GamesWorkshop or Sega or CA execs fault because they're the ones dictating what's allowed, what budget and dev time they get, they're the ones who impose crunch, etc. Grace and the Devs aren't the ones to be blamed (the devs even came out and said they'd love to commit time and resources to updating all the stuff they've already made, but that the higher ups would prefer they focus on making new content and thus more money).

    - Regardless of how bad a DLC is, its not worth abusing people over.

    - Just because you got what you wanted, doesn't mean everyone else did and doesn't automatically make all criticism about the coming content null and void (also doesn't mean you should victory dance all over others).

    - Never strawman and brush of criticism as entitled baby **** because it mostly isn't (even if it is conveyed with hyperbole). Consumer advocacy and a strong vocal community are the only thing standing between us getting good content that we want and us getting microtransactions and race packs that cost £30 for the same amount of content.

    - Remember not everyone is as rich as you. I see alot of people advocating for bigger and better things at a much higher cost or laughing at the price tag of DLC's and games because its a pittance to them. Money is tight for many, especially now and when talking about improvising stuff or adjusting price you always need to think from the perspective of those to whom money means alot more.

    - CA listens to our criticism (remember the Knights of Morr, Silverin Guard, etc) and the more respectful, composed and coherent it is, the more likely they are to respond positively to it.

    Apologies if this seems to preachy or like grand standing, Its just really been bothering me.

    The footlord criticism isn't fair I feel as combat foot lords being constantly knocked over was 90% of people's (including this forum's) compliants with these types of characters. CA had to fundamentally change the system in other to get this change, or that is the impression. Having squishy foot casters be more vulnerable is ok in my book, now players will actually have to protect their wizards, this adds a dimension of opportunity cost to the game. Casters already have the benefit of magic ( and immensely valuable tool and destructive force in this game), so there should be a compromise to bringing one I feel. Wizards shouldn't be powerful melee characters, barring some exceptions.Casters can also cast Vortex spells on top of themselves now (Zerkovich showed minimim cast range was removed), so they can get themselves out of a blob. Might make some underused Vortex spells usefull in multiplayer again.

    CA just need to give something for footlords that can't deal as much damage. It's ok that Grimgor or Ungrim take more damage, since they will dish out more on return. For Sigvald this is not the case.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,876
    edited November 2020

    Laindesh said:

    Zekerath said:

    In defence of Great Stag Knights and Zoats: both have new animations*, but yes, both are also remodels. It is especially visible on the Zoat model, it should be bulkier and its legs structure is all wrong - it is a Dragon Ogre in a cosplay after all.

    *idle and charge for GSK and casting animation for a Zoat(I don't remember Dragon Ogres and Shaggots having it, but I might be not-right)


    What pains me the most is the lack of Spites unit and Shadowdancer hero. The Sisters are air focused faction, yet there is not even one air unit in the LP. Bat sized Spites would add a lot to them, and to Drycha too.


    eomat said:

    I'm interested to see the extra stuff that they are adding if we own all the DLC and game. So far CA have not only managed to make a DLC but a full magnificent rework and add extra stuff to a Race that was pretty much considered complete.

    Personally the only thing I still want is the Shadowdancer and it looks like we won't get that.

    I think they are far from completed.

    H: Shadowdancer

    Units:
    1. Spites
    2. Meadow Chariots
    3. Hounds
    4. And the other animals, especially Wild Cats
    5. Laith-Kourn
    6. Naiads - I would prefer them for th Bretonnia, but they are a valid option

    Variants:
    1. Arrow variants
    2. Visually distinctive Dryad variants
    Seeing how the glade captain has skills named after Loec, and one skill in particular that seems to give them a dance not unlike what wardancers have and gives wardancers and bladesingers vanguard, I think CA has simply merged shadowdancer with the glade captain. And as I have said in another thread, I don't think wood elves particularly need another spellcaster hero, especially since branchwraiths have access to lore of shadow spells that would be fitting to shadowdancer (in that respect, shadowdancer has been split between branchwraith and glade captain).

    So as much as I'd love to see shadowdancers too, I'm not particularly holding my breath.
    If that's true then it is a mistake. Shadowdancers should come with dances and lore of shadows.



    - The units and generic heroes we're getting, love them or hate them, are mostly re-skins, even the Zoats seemingly.
    I would say it's in line with previous dlcs, Great stag models are great, Zoats do seem to use dragon ogre chasis but still look nice. I would only be disappointed if I had unrealistic expectations about this dlc surpassing all the previous ones.

    No, absolutely not. Let's look at P&W:

    LL: Grom - new animations

    H: Giant River Hag Troll - new animations beyond those used by River Trolls

    1. Snotling Pump Wagons - new model and new animations
    2. River Trolls - new model and new animations
    3. Rogue Idol - new model and new animations
    4. Stone Dragons - recolour

    This LP is the first ever DLC for DLC, it should convince customers that paying twice will be worth it. So far every WE unit is a remodel and the Sisters new mechanic appears to be extremely lacklustre in comparison to Throt's labolatory.

    It should be better than the best LP ever, but it is not. It is in fact worse than the GS side of the last LP.


    This is a good reasonable post with no bloodshed. But i disagree, if this is all Woodies have left to offer, they are doner than done.

    I must disagree. Most of these units would flesh out the forest spirit side of the WE.
    You do not need to own game one nor RotWE to play this DLC though. So no they don't have to put more effort into the twilight DLC than usual. (Also: Sisters, Ariel, Throt and Ghoritch all with new animations etc makes up for whats missing with units).

    Drycha and rework is where they have to prove its worth getting game 1 and RotWE for.
    Only on the Vortex map. Yes, they do have to put more effort into the Twilight DLC because they are selling the WE for the second time, it's a matter of business practice, treatment of those who already own the WE DLC. It was CA's golden opportunity to show their customers that paying twice is worth it. DLC for DLC is a controversial subject for a reason.
    They are selling the Wood Elves with additional Skaven content for less than half the price of the original Wood Elves DLC. CA has to do nothing.
    Even more reason for the owners of the original WE DLC to dislike it. They absolutely have to, now I won't ever doubt people saying that CA will cut the content from the upcoming race packs in order to sell them in pieces. It was their chance to persuade their customers. I don't feel persuaded.
    animacja-sygn-3.gif


  • LaindeshLaindesh Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,843

    Laindesh said:

    Zekerath said:

    In defence of Great Stag Knights and Zoats: both have new animations*, but yes, both are also remodels. It is especially visible on the Zoat model, it should be bulkier and its legs structure is all wrong - it is a Dragon Ogre in a cosplay after all.

    *idle and charge for GSK and casting animation for a Zoat(I don't remember Dragon Ogres and Shaggots having it, but I might be not-right)


    What pains me the most is the lack of Spites unit and Shadowdancer hero. The Sisters are air focused faction, yet there is not even one air unit in the LP. Bat sized Spites would add a lot to them, and to Drycha too.


    eomat said:

    I'm interested to see the extra stuff that they are adding if we own all the DLC and game. So far CA have not only managed to make a DLC but a full magnificent rework and add extra stuff to a Race that was pretty much considered complete.

    Personally the only thing I still want is the Shadowdancer and it looks like we won't get that.

    I think they are far from completed.

    H: Shadowdancer

    Units:
    1. Spites
    2. Meadow Chariots
    3. Hounds
    4. And the other animals, especially Wild Cats
    5. Laith-Kourn
    6. Naiads - I would prefer them for th Bretonnia, but they are a valid option

    Variants:
    1. Arrow variants
    2. Visually distinctive Dryad variants
    Seeing how the glade captain has skills named after Loec, and one skill in particular that seems to give them a dance not unlike what wardancers have and gives wardancers and bladesingers vanguard, I think CA has simply merged shadowdancer with the glade captain. And as I have said in another thread, I don't think wood elves particularly need another spellcaster hero, especially since branchwraiths have access to lore of shadow spells that would be fitting to shadowdancer (in that respect, shadowdancer has been split between branchwraith and glade captain).

    So as much as I'd love to see shadowdancers too, I'm not particularly holding my breath.
    If that's true then it is a mistake. Shadowdancers should come with dances and lore of shadows.



    - The units and generic heroes we're getting, love them or hate them, are mostly re-skins, even the Zoats seemingly.
    I would say it's in line with previous dlcs, Great stag models are great, Zoats do seem to use dragon ogre chasis but still look nice. I would only be disappointed if I had unrealistic expectations about this dlc surpassing all the previous ones.

    No, absolutely not. Let's look at P&W:

    LL: Grom - new animations

    H: Giant River Hag Troll - new animations beyond those used by River Trolls

    1. Snotling Pump Wagons - new model and new animations
    2. River Trolls - new model and new animations
    3. Rogue Idol - new model and new animations
    4. Stone Dragons - recolour

    This LP is the first ever DLC for DLC, it should convince customers that paying twice will be worth it. So far every WE unit is a remodel and the Sisters new mechanic appears to be extremely lacklustre in comparison to Throt's labolatory.

    It should be better than the best LP ever, but it is not. It is in fact worse than the GS side of the last LP.


    This is a good reasonable post with no bloodshed. But i disagree, if this is all Woodies have left to offer, they are doner than done.

    I must disagree. Most of these units would flesh out the forest spirit side of the WE.
    You do not need to own game one nor RotWE to play this DLC though. So no they don't have to put more effort into the twilight DLC than usual. (Also: Sisters, Ariel, Throt and Ghoritch all with new animations etc makes up for whats missing with units).

    Drycha and rework is where they have to prove its worth getting game 1 and RotWE for.
    Only on the Vortex map. Yes, they do have to put more effort into the Twilight DLC because they are selling the WE for the second time, it's a matter of business practice, treatment of those who already own the WE DLC. It was CA's golden opportunity to show their customers that paying twice is worth it. DLC for DLC is a controversial subject for a reason.
    " DLC for DLC is a controversial subject for a reason." I won't disagree on that.

    If sisters really is just vortex (if you dont have RotWE) then fair point.
    Personally the quality of the FLC and rework also plays in though and can make up for it to an extent.
  • MadDemiurgMadDemiurg Registered Users Posts: 3,435
    edited November 2020


    No, absolutely not. Let's look at P&W:

    LL: Grom - new animations

    H: Giant River Hag Troll - new animations beyond those used by River Trolls

    1. Snotling Pump Wagons - new model and new animations
    2. River Trolls - new model and new animations
    3. Rogue Idol - new model and new animations
    4. Stone Dragons - recolour

    This LP is the first ever DLC for DLC, it should convince customers that paying twice will be worth it. So far every WE unit is a remodel and the Sisters new mechanic appears to be extremely lacklustre in comparison to Throt's labolatory.

    It should be better than the best LP ever, but it is not. It is in fact worse than the GS side of the last LP.

    By these standards any non monster unit is not a new unit and should come for free, right? But WE are not a monster heavy faction. And humanoid units are not free to make. I'm pretty sure Empire fans would be super happy to get Knights of the White Wolf, Teutogen Guard or Warrior Priests of Ulrik, with no monstrous models attached.

    Bladesingers, Glade Captains, Spellweavers might or might not have new animations, we don't know that.

    Even then Sisters, Ariel, Great Stag mounts, Great Stag knights are completely new models with new animations and while Zoats do use Dragon Ogre chassis (you can argue about River Trolls also being just reskinned Trolls tbh) they do seem to have new animations. So on the unit side it seems close to me, of course who got the better deal is always subjective.

    I can sort of agree about lord mechanics (at least the effort that seemingly went into them) although I can't say I'm a fan of easy mode OP mechanics and hope Throt's lab is not an "I win" button. To me the more important part about the new lords are how fun they are to play and how different they are to other lords of the faction in terms of playstyle (and also preferably that they are challenging). We don't know that about sisters yet.

    WE did get a ton of core mechanics changes though.

    Team Daemons of Chaos

    Team Skaven

    Team Orcs & Goblins

  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 4,031

    Laindesh said:

    I'm willing to forgive them if they give Scarloc in Laurelorn Forest or Bowmen of Oreon

    You are gonna have to hold on to that "foregiveness" (as if CA has wronged you *rolls eyes*), since Scarloc is never going to be included in the game, since he is a pathetic character with nothing going for him..
    Skaven are boring to me. I don't want to play as mutant rats and evil trees, I want an elf shooter, an elite commando punishing enemies outside the forest. That's what's fun, not sad rats with trees.

    If the CA fulfills this need, there is still time, they will gain credibility and recognition.
    The Twins are both "elite archers" and have infinitely more background and gravitas than Scarloc could ever have... Also, ALL Wood Elves are by definition elite... Araloth is more interesting than Scarloc... And both of those characters can effectively be made by recruiting a Glade Lord... So basically asking for Scarloc is setting yourself up for disappointment since he is never going to be included, until ALL other Wood Elf options are exhausted..
    The sisters are a flying monster squad. Araloth is a duelist ruler. Only Scarloc is an Archer, master of ambushes, special forces exterminating enemies outside the forest. Its uniqueness and importance as a Lord is obvious and we need to get it in advance, before the next rework.
    Can you guys stop spilling that topic all over the forum? Make a thread on it and discuss it there.

    This thread is about how the community behaves and responded after CA unleashed info on part of the content on us.
    So let them give this very content that I'm talking about. This is the minimum cost and maximum result for the benefit of the community.

    Then I will say that you did well, that 7 months of waiting were not for me not to play for the Skaven and the evil tree.
    Then dont?

    Play the Sisters. They even face the DE.
    Play Ariel.
    Play the Stags.

    I love Vampire Coast, I'm playing them again on VH before the 3rd. I have never, and will NEVER play Cylostra. That LL may as well never exist for me.

    Play what you find fun, and move on.
    Knights of Bretonnia

  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 3,942
    Laindesh said:

    Laindesh said:

    Zekerath said:

    In defence of Great Stag Knights and Zoats: both have new animations*, but yes, both are also remodels. It is especially visible on the Zoat model, it should be bulkier and its legs structure is all wrong - it is a Dragon Ogre in a cosplay after all.

    *idle and charge for GSK and casting animation for a Zoat(I don't remember Dragon Ogres and Shaggots having it, but I might be not-right)


    What pains me the most is the lack of Spites unit and Shadowdancer hero. The Sisters are air focused faction, yet there is not even one air unit in the LP. Bat sized Spites would add a lot to them, and to Drycha too.


    eomat said:

    I'm interested to see the extra stuff that they are adding if we own all the DLC and game. So far CA have not only managed to make a DLC but a full magnificent rework and add extra stuff to a Race that was pretty much considered complete.

    Personally the only thing I still want is the Shadowdancer and it looks like we won't get that.

    I think they are far from completed.

    H: Shadowdancer

    Units:
    1. Spites
    2. Meadow Chariots
    3. Hounds
    4. And the other animals, especially Wild Cats
    5. Laith-Kourn
    6. Naiads - I would prefer them for th Bretonnia, but they are a valid option

    Variants:
    1. Arrow variants
    2. Visually distinctive Dryad variants
    Seeing how the glade captain has skills named after Loec, and one skill in particular that seems to give them a dance not unlike what wardancers have and gives wardancers and bladesingers vanguard, I think CA has simply merged shadowdancer with the glade captain. And as I have said in another thread, I don't think wood elves particularly need another spellcaster hero, especially since branchwraiths have access to lore of shadow spells that would be fitting to shadowdancer (in that respect, shadowdancer has been split between branchwraith and glade captain).

    So as much as I'd love to see shadowdancers too, I'm not particularly holding my breath.
    If that's true then it is a mistake. Shadowdancers should come with dances and lore of shadows.



    - The units and generic heroes we're getting, love them or hate them, are mostly re-skins, even the Zoats seemingly.
    I would say it's in line with previous dlcs, Great stag models are great, Zoats do seem to use dragon ogre chasis but still look nice. I would only be disappointed if I had unrealistic expectations about this dlc surpassing all the previous ones.

    No, absolutely not. Let's look at P&W:

    LL: Grom - new animations

    H: Giant River Hag Troll - new animations beyond those used by River Trolls

    1. Snotling Pump Wagons - new model and new animations
    2. River Trolls - new model and new animations
    3. Rogue Idol - new model and new animations
    4. Stone Dragons - recolour

    This LP is the first ever DLC for DLC, it should convince customers that paying twice will be worth it. So far every WE unit is a remodel and the Sisters new mechanic appears to be extremely lacklustre in comparison to Throt's labolatory.

    It should be better than the best LP ever, but it is not. It is in fact worse than the GS side of the last LP.


    This is a good reasonable post with no bloodshed. But i disagree, if this is all Woodies have left to offer, they are doner than done.

    I must disagree. Most of these units would flesh out the forest spirit side of the WE.
    You do not need to own game one nor RotWE to play this DLC though. So no they don't have to put more effort into the twilight DLC than usual. (Also: Sisters, Ariel, Throt and Ghoritch all with new animations etc makes up for whats missing with units).

    Drycha and rework is where they have to prove its worth getting game 1 and RotWE for.
    Only on the Vortex map. Yes, they do have to put more effort into the Twilight DLC because they are selling the WE for the second time, it's a matter of business practice, treatment of those who already own the WE DLC. It was CA's golden opportunity to show their customers that paying twice is worth it. DLC for DLC is a controversial subject for a reason.
    " DLC for DLC is a controversial subject for a reason." I won't disagree on that.

    If sisters really is just vortex (if you dont have RotWE) then fair point.
    Personally the quality of the FLC and rework also plays in though and can make up for it to an extent.
    You can play them in ME even if you don't have RotWE
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 20,767
    Was going to delete a large number of posts due to the personal and derogatory content in many of them, of which the OP seems to lead.

    Moving to Off topic as the discussion theme is not about the DLC game play, but as noted by several posts folk's opinion about opinions of opinions.

    Moved.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain
  • KelefaneKelefane Registered Users Posts: 2,702
    At first glance, I do feel like the Greenskins have gotten the best rework so.

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