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The Discourse around this DLC is unpleasant (from both sides)

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  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 4,230

    Nyxilis said:

    Laindesh said:

    Laindesh said:

    Zekerath said:

    In defence of Great Stag Knights and Zoats: both have new animations*, but yes, both are also remodels. It is especially visible on the Zoat model, it should be bulkier and its legs structure is all wrong - it is a Dragon Ogre in a cosplay after all.

    *idle and charge for GSK and casting animation for a Zoat(I don't remember Dragon Ogres and Shaggots having it, but I might be not-right)


    What pains me the most is the lack of Spites unit and Shadowdancer hero. The Sisters are air focused faction, yet there is not even one air unit in the LP. Bat sized Spites would add a lot to them, and to Drycha too.


    eomat said:

    I'm interested to see the extra stuff that they are adding if we own all the DLC and game. So far CA have not only managed to make a DLC but a full magnificent rework and add extra stuff to a Race that was pretty much considered complete.

    Personally the only thing I still want is the Shadowdancer and it looks like we won't get that.

    I think they are far from completed.

    H: Shadowdancer

    Units:
    1. Spites
    2. Meadow Chariots
    3. Hounds
    4. And the other animals, especially Wild Cats
    5. Laith-Kourn
    6. Naiads - I would prefer them for th Bretonnia, but they are a valid option

    Variants:
    1. Arrow variants
    2. Visually distinctive Dryad variants
    Seeing how the glade captain has skills named after Loec, and one skill in particular that seems to give them a dance not unlike what wardancers have and gives wardancers and bladesingers vanguard, I think CA has simply merged shadowdancer with the glade captain. And as I have said in another thread, I don't think wood elves particularly need another spellcaster hero, especially since branchwraiths have access to lore of shadow spells that would be fitting to shadowdancer (in that respect, shadowdancer has been split between branchwraith and glade captain).

    So as much as I'd love to see shadowdancers too, I'm not particularly holding my breath.
    If that's true then it is a mistake. Shadowdancers should come with dances and lore of shadows.



    - The units and generic heroes we're getting, love them or hate them, are mostly re-skins, even the Zoats seemingly.
    I would say it's in line with previous dlcs, Great stag models are great, Zoats do seem to use dragon ogre chasis but still look nice. I would only be disappointed if I had unrealistic expectations about this dlc surpassing all the previous ones.

    No, absolutely not. Let's look at P&W:

    LL: Grom - new animations

    H: Giant River Hag Troll - new animations beyond those used by River Trolls

    1. Snotling Pump Wagons - new model and new animations
    2. River Trolls - new model and new animations
    3. Rogue Idol - new model and new animations
    4. Stone Dragons - recolour

    This LP is the first ever DLC for DLC, it should convince customers that paying twice will be worth it. So far every WE unit is a remodel and the Sisters new mechanic appears to be extremely lacklustre in comparison to Throt's labolatory.

    It should be better than the best LP ever, but it is not. It is in fact worse than the GS side of the last LP.


    This is a good reasonable post with no bloodshed. But i disagree, if this is all Woodies have left to offer, they are doner than done.

    I must disagree. Most of these units would flesh out the forest spirit side of the WE.
    You do not need to own game one nor RotWE to play this DLC though. So no they don't have to put more effort into the twilight DLC than usual. (Also: Sisters, Ariel, Throt and Ghoritch all with new animations etc makes up for whats missing with units).

    Drycha and rework is where they have to prove its worth getting game 1 and RotWE for.
    Only on the Vortex map. Yes, they do have to put more effort into the Twilight DLC because they are selling the WE for the second time, it's a matter of business practice, treatment of those who already own the WE DLC. It was CA's golden opportunity to show their customers that paying twice is worth it. DLC for DLC is a controversial subject for a reason.
    " DLC for DLC is a controversial subject for a reason." I won't disagree on that.

    If sisters really is just vortex (if you dont have RotWE) then fair point.
    Personally the quality of the FLC and rework also plays in though and can make up for it to an extent.
    I don't know if their ME access requires RotWE but it for sure requires Game1.


    No, absolutely not. Let's look at P&W:

    LL: Grom - new animations

    H: Giant River Hag Troll - new animations beyond those used by River Trolls

    1. Snotling Pump Wagons - new model and new animations
    2. River Trolls - new model and new animations
    3. Rogue Idol - new model and new animations
    4. Stone Dragons - recolour

    This LP is the first ever DLC for DLC, it should convince customers that paying twice will be worth it. So far every WE unit is a remodel and the Sisters new mechanic appears to be extremely lacklustre in comparison to Throt's labolatory.

    It should be better than the best LP ever, but it is not. It is in fact worse than the GS side of the last LP.

    By these standards any non monster unit is not a new unit and should come for free, right? But WE are not a monster heavy faction. And humanoid units are not free to make. I'm pretty sure Empire fans would be super happy to get Knights of the White Wolf, Teutogen Guard or Warrior Priests of Ulrik, with no monstrous models attached.

    Bladesingers, Glade Captains, Spellweavers might or might not have new animations, we don't know that.

    Even then Sisters, Ariel, Great Stag mounts, Great Stag knights are completely new models with new animations and while Zoats do use Dragon Ogre chassis (you can argue about River Trolls also being just reskinned Trolls tbh) they do seem to have new animations. So on the unit side it seems close to me, of course who got the better deal is always subjective.

    I can sort of agree about lord mechanics (at least the effort that seemingly went into them) although I can't say I'm a fan of easy mode OP mechanics and hope Throt's lab is not an "I win" button. To me the more important part about the new lords are how fun they are to play and how different they are to other lords of the faction in terms of playstyle (and also preferably that they are challenging). We don't know that about sisters yet.

    WE did get a ton of core mechanics changes though.
    Non monster units too can get new animations and models. For an example Spellweaver and Bladesinger could have been male characters. The WE are Elf/Forest Spirit faction and they don't have many forest spirits.

    From what I have seen, I doubt it.

    LLs are given to receive new animations, or at least that should be the case. Great Stag Knights do have new animations yes, but not all of them are new, and it is not a new model. Yes, Zoats have spell casting animation, that being said they should have been new models in order to look good, they don't look like Zoats proper. River Trolls might use the same rig but their animations are fresh. I don't think it is subjective at all.

    I don't know about easy, but Throt's lab appears to be interactive, and to offer replayability. It's simply fun at first glance.

    Eh, their new mechanics are decent but pretty lacklustre. The Weave, seasons and wild hunts have not been expanded, and offices remain the same. I would say that the Empire rework was better.
    Great stags have more new animations than you think, completely new ideal animations, new charge animations, and attack animations and likely more. Pretty sure I saw what looked like a sync kill of it Smashing some guy into the floor with its antlers.
    Great stags are a least semi new model at least, it's a different shape to the current stags in the game, and I am not just talking about size look at its head and neck.

    As for Zoats we haven't seen enough of them to judge yet, sure they are a remodel of the dragon ogres, but they could still have a lot of new animations.
    I haven't said that they don't have new animations, only that old ones also were used for them. I know, they look pretty great.

    I think that Zoats do have some new animations.
    There is no think about it. Their casters, dragon ogres were not.
    So far only one new animation has been confirmed, that's why I have said 'think' in the context of 'animations'.


    If you think there is just one then it's yet another thing that found you pretty dismissable when it comes to unit.

    Rapidly just becomes what you want to believe.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,923
    Nyxilis said:

    Nyxilis said:

    Laindesh said:

    Laindesh said:

    Zekerath said:

    In defence of Great Stag Knights and Zoats: both have new animations*, but yes, both are also remodels. It is especially visible on the Zoat model, it should be bulkier and its legs structure is all wrong - it is a Dragon Ogre in a cosplay after all.

    *idle and charge for GSK and casting animation for a Zoat(I don't remember Dragon Ogres and Shaggots having it, but I might be not-right)


    What pains me the most is the lack of Spites unit and Shadowdancer hero. The Sisters are air focused faction, yet there is not even one air unit in the LP. Bat sized Spites would add a lot to them, and to Drycha too.


    eomat said:

    I'm interested to see the extra stuff that they are adding if we own all the DLC and game. So far CA have not only managed to make a DLC but a full magnificent rework and add extra stuff to a Race that was pretty much considered complete.

    Personally the only thing I still want is the Shadowdancer and it looks like we won't get that.

    I think they are far from completed.

    H: Shadowdancer

    Units:
    1. Spites
    2. Meadow Chariots
    3. Hounds
    4. And the other animals, especially Wild Cats
    5. Laith-Kourn
    6. Naiads - I would prefer them for th Bretonnia, but they are a valid option

    Variants:
    1. Arrow variants
    2. Visually distinctive Dryad variants
    Seeing how the glade captain has skills named after Loec, and one skill in particular that seems to give them a dance not unlike what wardancers have and gives wardancers and bladesingers vanguard, I think CA has simply merged shadowdancer with the glade captain. And as I have said in another thread, I don't think wood elves particularly need another spellcaster hero, especially since branchwraiths have access to lore of shadow spells that would be fitting to shadowdancer (in that respect, shadowdancer has been split between branchwraith and glade captain).

    So as much as I'd love to see shadowdancers too, I'm not particularly holding my breath.
    If that's true then it is a mistake. Shadowdancers should come with dances and lore of shadows.



    - The units and generic heroes we're getting, love them or hate them, are mostly re-skins, even the Zoats seemingly.
    I would say it's in line with previous dlcs, Great stag models are great, Zoats do seem to use dragon ogre chasis but still look nice. I would only be disappointed if I had unrealistic expectations about this dlc surpassing all the previous ones.

    No, absolutely not. Let's look at P&W:

    LL: Grom - new animations

    H: Giant River Hag Troll - new animations beyond those used by River Trolls

    1. Snotling Pump Wagons - new model and new animations
    2. River Trolls - new model and new animations
    3. Rogue Idol - new model and new animations
    4. Stone Dragons - recolour

    This LP is the first ever DLC for DLC, it should convince customers that paying twice will be worth it. So far every WE unit is a remodel and the Sisters new mechanic appears to be extremely lacklustre in comparison to Throt's labolatory.

    It should be better than the best LP ever, but it is not. It is in fact worse than the GS side of the last LP.


    This is a good reasonable post with no bloodshed. But i disagree, if this is all Woodies have left to offer, they are doner than done.

    I must disagree. Most of these units would flesh out the forest spirit side of the WE.
    You do not need to own game one nor RotWE to play this DLC though. So no they don't have to put more effort into the twilight DLC than usual. (Also: Sisters, Ariel, Throt and Ghoritch all with new animations etc makes up for whats missing with units).

    Drycha and rework is where they have to prove its worth getting game 1 and RotWE for.
    Only on the Vortex map. Yes, they do have to put more effort into the Twilight DLC because they are selling the WE for the second time, it's a matter of business practice, treatment of those who already own the WE DLC. It was CA's golden opportunity to show their customers that paying twice is worth it. DLC for DLC is a controversial subject for a reason.
    " DLC for DLC is a controversial subject for a reason." I won't disagree on that.

    If sisters really is just vortex (if you dont have RotWE) then fair point.
    Personally the quality of the FLC and rework also plays in though and can make up for it to an extent.
    I don't know if their ME access requires RotWE but it for sure requires Game1.


    No, absolutely not. Let's look at P&W:

    LL: Grom - new animations

    H: Giant River Hag Troll - new animations beyond those used by River Trolls

    1. Snotling Pump Wagons - new model and new animations
    2. River Trolls - new model and new animations
    3. Rogue Idol - new model and new animations
    4. Stone Dragons - recolour

    This LP is the first ever DLC for DLC, it should convince customers that paying twice will be worth it. So far every WE unit is a remodel and the Sisters new mechanic appears to be extremely lacklustre in comparison to Throt's labolatory.

    It should be better than the best LP ever, but it is not. It is in fact worse than the GS side of the last LP.

    By these standards any non monster unit is not a new unit and should come for free, right? But WE are not a monster heavy faction. And humanoid units are not free to make. I'm pretty sure Empire fans would be super happy to get Knights of the White Wolf, Teutogen Guard or Warrior Priests of Ulrik, with no monstrous models attached.

    Bladesingers, Glade Captains, Spellweavers might or might not have new animations, we don't know that.

    Even then Sisters, Ariel, Great Stag mounts, Great Stag knights are completely new models with new animations and while Zoats do use Dragon Ogre chassis (you can argue about River Trolls also being just reskinned Trolls tbh) they do seem to have new animations. So on the unit side it seems close to me, of course who got the better deal is always subjective.

    I can sort of agree about lord mechanics (at least the effort that seemingly went into them) although I can't say I'm a fan of easy mode OP mechanics and hope Throt's lab is not an "I win" button. To me the more important part about the new lords are how fun they are to play and how different they are to other lords of the faction in terms of playstyle (and also preferably that they are challenging). We don't know that about sisters yet.

    WE did get a ton of core mechanics changes though.
    Non monster units too can get new animations and models. For an example Spellweaver and Bladesinger could have been male characters. The WE are Elf/Forest Spirit faction and they don't have many forest spirits.

    From what I have seen, I doubt it.

    LLs are given to receive new animations, or at least that should be the case. Great Stag Knights do have new animations yes, but not all of them are new, and it is not a new model. Yes, Zoats have spell casting animation, that being said they should have been new models in order to look good, they don't look like Zoats proper. River Trolls might use the same rig but their animations are fresh. I don't think it is subjective at all.

    I don't know about easy, but Throt's lab appears to be interactive, and to offer replayability. It's simply fun at first glance.

    Eh, their new mechanics are decent but pretty lacklustre. The Weave, seasons and wild hunts have not been expanded, and offices remain the same. I would say that the Empire rework was better.
    Great stags have more new animations than you think, completely new ideal animations, new charge animations, and attack animations and likely more. Pretty sure I saw what looked like a sync kill of it Smashing some guy into the floor with its antlers.
    Great stags are a least semi new model at least, it's a different shape to the current stags in the game, and I am not just talking about size look at its head and neck.

    As for Zoats we haven't seen enough of them to judge yet, sure they are a remodel of the dragon ogres, but they could still have a lot of new animations.
    I haven't said that they don't have new animations, only that old ones also were used for them. I know, they look pretty great.

    I think that Zoats do have some new animations.
    There is no think about it. Their casters, dragon ogres were not.
    So far only one new animation has been confirmed, that's why I have said 'think' in the context of 'animations'.


    If you think there is just one then it's yet another thing that found you pretty dismissable when it comes to unit.

    Rapidly just becomes what you want to believe.
    I think that there are more than one animations, but I don't know it. That's how this exchange started.
    animacja-sygn-3.gif


  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 4,230

    Nyxilis said:

    Nyxilis said:

    Laindesh said:

    Laindesh said:

    Zekerath said:

    In defence of Great Stag Knights and Zoats: both have new animations*, but yes, both are also remodels. It is especially visible on the Zoat model, it should be bulkier and its legs structure is all wrong - it is a Dragon Ogre in a cosplay after all.

    *idle and charge for GSK and casting animation for a Zoat(I don't remember Dragon Ogres and Shaggots having it, but I might be not-right)


    What pains me the most is the lack of Spites unit and Shadowdancer hero. The Sisters are air focused faction, yet there is not even one air unit in the LP. Bat sized Spites would add a lot to them, and to Drycha too.


    eomat said:

    I'm interested to see the extra stuff that they are adding if we own all the DLC and game. So far CA have not only managed to make a DLC but a full magnificent rework and add extra stuff to a Race that was pretty much considered complete.

    Personally the only thing I still want is the Shadowdancer and it looks like we won't get that.

    I think they are far from completed.

    H: Shadowdancer

    Units:
    1. Spites
    2. Meadow Chariots
    3. Hounds
    4. And the other animals, especially Wild Cats
    5. Laith-Kourn
    6. Naiads - I would prefer them for th Bretonnia, but they are a valid option

    Variants:
    1. Arrow variants
    2. Visually distinctive Dryad variants
    Seeing how the glade captain has skills named after Loec, and one skill in particular that seems to give them a dance not unlike what wardancers have and gives wardancers and bladesingers vanguard, I think CA has simply merged shadowdancer with the glade captain. And as I have said in another thread, I don't think wood elves particularly need another spellcaster hero, especially since branchwraiths have access to lore of shadow spells that would be fitting to shadowdancer (in that respect, shadowdancer has been split between branchwraith and glade captain).

    So as much as I'd love to see shadowdancers too, I'm not particularly holding my breath.
    If that's true then it is a mistake. Shadowdancers should come with dances and lore of shadows.



    - The units and generic heroes we're getting, love them or hate them, are mostly re-skins, even the Zoats seemingly.
    I would say it's in line with previous dlcs, Great stag models are great, Zoats do seem to use dragon ogre chasis but still look nice. I would only be disappointed if I had unrealistic expectations about this dlc surpassing all the previous ones.

    No, absolutely not. Let's look at P&W:

    LL: Grom - new animations

    H: Giant River Hag Troll - new animations beyond those used by River Trolls

    1. Snotling Pump Wagons - new model and new animations
    2. River Trolls - new model and new animations
    3. Rogue Idol - new model and new animations
    4. Stone Dragons - recolour

    This LP is the first ever DLC for DLC, it should convince customers that paying twice will be worth it. So far every WE unit is a remodel and the Sisters new mechanic appears to be extremely lacklustre in comparison to Throt's labolatory.

    It should be better than the best LP ever, but it is not. It is in fact worse than the GS side of the last LP.


    This is a good reasonable post with no bloodshed. But i disagree, if this is all Woodies have left to offer, they are doner than done.

    I must disagree. Most of these units would flesh out the forest spirit side of the WE.
    You do not need to own game one nor RotWE to play this DLC though. So no they don't have to put more effort into the twilight DLC than usual. (Also: Sisters, Ariel, Throt and Ghoritch all with new animations etc makes up for whats missing with units).

    Drycha and rework is where they have to prove its worth getting game 1 and RotWE for.
    Only on the Vortex map. Yes, they do have to put more effort into the Twilight DLC because they are selling the WE for the second time, it's a matter of business practice, treatment of those who already own the WE DLC. It was CA's golden opportunity to show their customers that paying twice is worth it. DLC for DLC is a controversial subject for a reason.
    " DLC for DLC is a controversial subject for a reason." I won't disagree on that.

    If sisters really is just vortex (if you dont have RotWE) then fair point.
    Personally the quality of the FLC and rework also plays in though and can make up for it to an extent.
    I don't know if their ME access requires RotWE but it for sure requires Game1.


    No, absolutely not. Let's look at P&W:

    LL: Grom - new animations

    H: Giant River Hag Troll - new animations beyond those used by River Trolls

    1. Snotling Pump Wagons - new model and new animations
    2. River Trolls - new model and new animations
    3. Rogue Idol - new model and new animations
    4. Stone Dragons - recolour

    This LP is the first ever DLC for DLC, it should convince customers that paying twice will be worth it. So far every WE unit is a remodel and the Sisters new mechanic appears to be extremely lacklustre in comparison to Throt's labolatory.

    It should be better than the best LP ever, but it is not. It is in fact worse than the GS side of the last LP.

    By these standards any non monster unit is not a new unit and should come for free, right? But WE are not a monster heavy faction. And humanoid units are not free to make. I'm pretty sure Empire fans would be super happy to get Knights of the White Wolf, Teutogen Guard or Warrior Priests of Ulrik, with no monstrous models attached.

    Bladesingers, Glade Captains, Spellweavers might or might not have new animations, we don't know that.

    Even then Sisters, Ariel, Great Stag mounts, Great Stag knights are completely new models with new animations and while Zoats do use Dragon Ogre chassis (you can argue about River Trolls also being just reskinned Trolls tbh) they do seem to have new animations. So on the unit side it seems close to me, of course who got the better deal is always subjective.

    I can sort of agree about lord mechanics (at least the effort that seemingly went into them) although I can't say I'm a fan of easy mode OP mechanics and hope Throt's lab is not an "I win" button. To me the more important part about the new lords are how fun they are to play and how different they are to other lords of the faction in terms of playstyle (and also preferably that they are challenging). We don't know that about sisters yet.

    WE did get a ton of core mechanics changes though.
    Non monster units too can get new animations and models. For an example Spellweaver and Bladesinger could have been male characters. The WE are Elf/Forest Spirit faction and they don't have many forest spirits.

    From what I have seen, I doubt it.

    LLs are given to receive new animations, or at least that should be the case. Great Stag Knights do have new animations yes, but not all of them are new, and it is not a new model. Yes, Zoats have spell casting animation, that being said they should have been new models in order to look good, they don't look like Zoats proper. River Trolls might use the same rig but their animations are fresh. I don't think it is subjective at all.

    I don't know about easy, but Throt's lab appears to be interactive, and to offer replayability. It's simply fun at first glance.

    Eh, their new mechanics are decent but pretty lacklustre. The Weave, seasons and wild hunts have not been expanded, and offices remain the same. I would say that the Empire rework was better.
    Great stags have more new animations than you think, completely new ideal animations, new charge animations, and attack animations and likely more. Pretty sure I saw what looked like a sync kill of it Smashing some guy into the floor with its antlers.
    Great stags are a least semi new model at least, it's a different shape to the current stags in the game, and I am not just talking about size look at its head and neck.

    As for Zoats we haven't seen enough of them to judge yet, sure they are a remodel of the dragon ogres, but they could still have a lot of new animations.
    I haven't said that they don't have new animations, only that old ones also were used for them. I know, they look pretty great.

    I think that Zoats do have some new animations.
    There is no think about it. Their casters, dragon ogres were not.
    So far only one new animation has been confirmed, that's why I have said 'think' in the context of 'animations'.


    If you think there is just one then it's yet another thing that found you pretty dismissable when it comes to unit.

    Rapidly just becomes what you want to believe.
    I think that there are more than one animations, but I don't know it. That's how this exchange started.
    Already doing a synced animation on a rat, already doing a cast.

    Bliiiiiiiiiind.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,923
    Nyxilis said:

    Nyxilis said:

    Nyxilis said:

    Laindesh said:

    Laindesh said:

    Zekerath said:

    In defence of Great Stag Knights and Zoats: both have new animations*, but yes, both are also remodels. It is especially visible on the Zoat model, it should be bulkier and its legs structure is all wrong - it is a Dragon Ogre in a cosplay after all.

    *idle and charge for GSK and casting animation for a Zoat(I don't remember Dragon Ogres and Shaggots having it, but I might be not-right)


    What pains me the most is the lack of Spites unit and Shadowdancer hero. The Sisters are air focused faction, yet there is not even one air unit in the LP. Bat sized Spites would add a lot to them, and to Drycha too.


    eomat said:

    I'm interested to see the extra stuff that they are adding if we own all the DLC and game. So far CA have not only managed to make a DLC but a full magnificent rework and add extra stuff to a Race that was pretty much considered complete.

    Personally the only thing I still want is the Shadowdancer and it looks like we won't get that.

    I think they are far from completed.

    H: Shadowdancer

    Units:
    1. Spites
    2. Meadow Chariots
    3. Hounds
    4. And the other animals, especially Wild Cats
    5. Laith-Kourn
    6. Naiads - I would prefer them for th Bretonnia, but they are a valid option

    Variants:
    1. Arrow variants
    2. Visually distinctive Dryad variants
    Seeing how the glade captain has skills named after Loec, and one skill in particular that seems to give them a dance not unlike what wardancers have and gives wardancers and bladesingers vanguard, I think CA has simply merged shadowdancer with the glade captain. And as I have said in another thread, I don't think wood elves particularly need another spellcaster hero, especially since branchwraiths have access to lore of shadow spells that would be fitting to shadowdancer (in that respect, shadowdancer has been split between branchwraith and glade captain).

    So as much as I'd love to see shadowdancers too, I'm not particularly holding my breath.
    If that's true then it is a mistake. Shadowdancers should come with dances and lore of shadows.



    - The units and generic heroes we're getting, love them or hate them, are mostly re-skins, even the Zoats seemingly.
    I would say it's in line with previous dlcs, Great stag models are great, Zoats do seem to use dragon ogre chasis but still look nice. I would only be disappointed if I had unrealistic expectations about this dlc surpassing all the previous ones.

    No, absolutely not. Let's look at P&W:

    LL: Grom - new animations

    H: Giant River Hag Troll - new animations beyond those used by River Trolls

    1. Snotling Pump Wagons - new model and new animations
    2. River Trolls - new model and new animations
    3. Rogue Idol - new model and new animations
    4. Stone Dragons - recolour

    This LP is the first ever DLC for DLC, it should convince customers that paying twice will be worth it. So far every WE unit is a remodel and the Sisters new mechanic appears to be extremely lacklustre in comparison to Throt's labolatory.

    It should be better than the best LP ever, but it is not. It is in fact worse than the GS side of the last LP.


    This is a good reasonable post with no bloodshed. But i disagree, if this is all Woodies have left to offer, they are doner than done.

    I must disagree. Most of these units would flesh out the forest spirit side of the WE.
    You do not need to own game one nor RotWE to play this DLC though. So no they don't have to put more effort into the twilight DLC than usual. (Also: Sisters, Ariel, Throt and Ghoritch all with new animations etc makes up for whats missing with units).

    Drycha and rework is where they have to prove its worth getting game 1 and RotWE for.
    Only on the Vortex map. Yes, they do have to put more effort into the Twilight DLC because they are selling the WE for the second time, it's a matter of business practice, treatment of those who already own the WE DLC. It was CA's golden opportunity to show their customers that paying twice is worth it. DLC for DLC is a controversial subject for a reason.
    " DLC for DLC is a controversial subject for a reason." I won't disagree on that.

    If sisters really is just vortex (if you dont have RotWE) then fair point.
    Personally the quality of the FLC and rework also plays in though and can make up for it to an extent.
    I don't know if their ME access requires RotWE but it for sure requires Game1.


    No, absolutely not. Let's look at P&W:

    LL: Grom - new animations

    H: Giant River Hag Troll - new animations beyond those used by River Trolls

    1. Snotling Pump Wagons - new model and new animations
    2. River Trolls - new model and new animations
    3. Rogue Idol - new model and new animations
    4. Stone Dragons - recolour

    This LP is the first ever DLC for DLC, it should convince customers that paying twice will be worth it. So far every WE unit is a remodel and the Sisters new mechanic appears to be extremely lacklustre in comparison to Throt's labolatory.

    It should be better than the best LP ever, but it is not. It is in fact worse than the GS side of the last LP.

    By these standards any non monster unit is not a new unit and should come for free, right? But WE are not a monster heavy faction. And humanoid units are not free to make. I'm pretty sure Empire fans would be super happy to get Knights of the White Wolf, Teutogen Guard or Warrior Priests of Ulrik, with no monstrous models attached.

    Bladesingers, Glade Captains, Spellweavers might or might not have new animations, we don't know that.

    Even then Sisters, Ariel, Great Stag mounts, Great Stag knights are completely new models with new animations and while Zoats do use Dragon Ogre chassis (you can argue about River Trolls also being just reskinned Trolls tbh) they do seem to have new animations. So on the unit side it seems close to me, of course who got the better deal is always subjective.

    I can sort of agree about lord mechanics (at least the effort that seemingly went into them) although I can't say I'm a fan of easy mode OP mechanics and hope Throt's lab is not an "I win" button. To me the more important part about the new lords are how fun they are to play and how different they are to other lords of the faction in terms of playstyle (and also preferably that they are challenging). We don't know that about sisters yet.

    WE did get a ton of core mechanics changes though.
    Non monster units too can get new animations and models. For an example Spellweaver and Bladesinger could have been male characters. The WE are Elf/Forest Spirit faction and they don't have many forest spirits.

    From what I have seen, I doubt it.

    LLs are given to receive new animations, or at least that should be the case. Great Stag Knights do have new animations yes, but not all of them are new, and it is not a new model. Yes, Zoats have spell casting animation, that being said they should have been new models in order to look good, they don't look like Zoats proper. River Trolls might use the same rig but their animations are fresh. I don't think it is subjective at all.

    I don't know about easy, but Throt's lab appears to be interactive, and to offer replayability. It's simply fun at first glance.

    Eh, their new mechanics are decent but pretty lacklustre. The Weave, seasons and wild hunts have not been expanded, and offices remain the same. I would say that the Empire rework was better.
    Great stags have more new animations than you think, completely new ideal animations, new charge animations, and attack animations and likely more. Pretty sure I saw what looked like a sync kill of it Smashing some guy into the floor with its antlers.
    Great stags are a least semi new model at least, it's a different shape to the current stags in the game, and I am not just talking about size look at its head and neck.

    As for Zoats we haven't seen enough of them to judge yet, sure they are a remodel of the dragon ogres, but they could still have a lot of new animations.
    I haven't said that they don't have new animations, only that old ones also were used for them. I know, they look pretty great.

    I think that Zoats do have some new animations.
    There is no think about it. Their casters, dragon ogres were not.
    So far only one new animation has been confirmed, that's why I have said 'think' in the context of 'animations'.


    If you think there is just one then it's yet another thing that found you pretty dismissable when it comes to unit.

    Rapidly just becomes what you want to believe.
    I think that there are more than one animations, but I don't know it. That's how this exchange started.
    Already doing a synced animation on a rat, already doing a cast.

    Bliiiiiiiiiind.
    I have responded before seeing the gameplay trailer.
    animacja-sygn-3.gif


  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 4,230

    Nyxilis said:

    Nyxilis said:

    Nyxilis said:

    Laindesh said:

    Laindesh said:

    Zekerath said:

    In defence of Great Stag Knights and Zoats: both have new animations*, but yes, both are also remodels. It is especially visible on the Zoat model, it should be bulkier and its legs structure is all wrong - it is a Dragon Ogre in a cosplay after all.

    *idle and charge for GSK and casting animation for a Zoat(I don't remember Dragon Ogres and Shaggots having it, but I might be not-right)


    What pains me the most is the lack of Spites unit and Shadowdancer hero. The Sisters are air focused faction, yet there is not even one air unit in the LP. Bat sized Spites would add a lot to them, and to Drycha too.


    eomat said:

    I'm interested to see the extra stuff that they are adding if we own all the DLC and game. So far CA have not only managed to make a DLC but a full magnificent rework and add extra stuff to a Race that was pretty much considered complete.

    Personally the only thing I still want is the Shadowdancer and it looks like we won't get that.

    I think they are far from completed.

    H: Shadowdancer

    Units:
    1. Spites
    2. Meadow Chariots
    3. Hounds
    4. And the other animals, especially Wild Cats
    5. Laith-Kourn
    6. Naiads - I would prefer them for th Bretonnia, but they are a valid option

    Variants:
    1. Arrow variants
    2. Visually distinctive Dryad variants
    Seeing how the glade captain has skills named after Loec, and one skill in particular that seems to give them a dance not unlike what wardancers have and gives wardancers and bladesingers vanguard, I think CA has simply merged shadowdancer with the glade captain. And as I have said in another thread, I don't think wood elves particularly need another spellcaster hero, especially since branchwraiths have access to lore of shadow spells that would be fitting to shadowdancer (in that respect, shadowdancer has been split between branchwraith and glade captain).

    So as much as I'd love to see shadowdancers too, I'm not particularly holding my breath.
    If that's true then it is a mistake. Shadowdancers should come with dances and lore of shadows.



    - The units and generic heroes we're getting, love them or hate them, are mostly re-skins, even the Zoats seemingly.
    I would say it's in line with previous dlcs, Great stag models are great, Zoats do seem to use dragon ogre chasis but still look nice. I would only be disappointed if I had unrealistic expectations about this dlc surpassing all the previous ones.

    No, absolutely not. Let's look at P&W:

    LL: Grom - new animations

    H: Giant River Hag Troll - new animations beyond those used by River Trolls

    1. Snotling Pump Wagons - new model and new animations
    2. River Trolls - new model and new animations
    3. Rogue Idol - new model and new animations
    4. Stone Dragons - recolour

    This LP is the first ever DLC for DLC, it should convince customers that paying twice will be worth it. So far every WE unit is a remodel and the Sisters new mechanic appears to be extremely lacklustre in comparison to Throt's labolatory.

    It should be better than the best LP ever, but it is not. It is in fact worse than the GS side of the last LP.


    This is a good reasonable post with no bloodshed. But i disagree, if this is all Woodies have left to offer, they are doner than done.

    I must disagree. Most of these units would flesh out the forest spirit side of the WE.
    You do not need to own game one nor RotWE to play this DLC though. So no they don't have to put more effort into the twilight DLC than usual. (Also: Sisters, Ariel, Throt and Ghoritch all with new animations etc makes up for whats missing with units).

    Drycha and rework is where they have to prove its worth getting game 1 and RotWE for.
    Only on the Vortex map. Yes, they do have to put more effort into the Twilight DLC because they are selling the WE for the second time, it's a matter of business practice, treatment of those who already own the WE DLC. It was CA's golden opportunity to show their customers that paying twice is worth it. DLC for DLC is a controversial subject for a reason.
    " DLC for DLC is a controversial subject for a reason." I won't disagree on that.

    If sisters really is just vortex (if you dont have RotWE) then fair point.
    Personally the quality of the FLC and rework also plays in though and can make up for it to an extent.
    I don't know if their ME access requires RotWE but it for sure requires Game1.


    No, absolutely not. Let's look at P&W:

    LL: Grom - new animations

    H: Giant River Hag Troll - new animations beyond those used by River Trolls

    1. Snotling Pump Wagons - new model and new animations
    2. River Trolls - new model and new animations
    3. Rogue Idol - new model and new animations
    4. Stone Dragons - recolour

    This LP is the first ever DLC for DLC, it should convince customers that paying twice will be worth it. So far every WE unit is a remodel and the Sisters new mechanic appears to be extremely lacklustre in comparison to Throt's labolatory.

    It should be better than the best LP ever, but it is not. It is in fact worse than the GS side of the last LP.

    By these standards any non monster unit is not a new unit and should come for free, right? But WE are not a monster heavy faction. And humanoid units are not free to make. I'm pretty sure Empire fans would be super happy to get Knights of the White Wolf, Teutogen Guard or Warrior Priests of Ulrik, with no monstrous models attached.

    Bladesingers, Glade Captains, Spellweavers might or might not have new animations, we don't know that.

    Even then Sisters, Ariel, Great Stag mounts, Great Stag knights are completely new models with new animations and while Zoats do use Dragon Ogre chassis (you can argue about River Trolls also being just reskinned Trolls tbh) they do seem to have new animations. So on the unit side it seems close to me, of course who got the better deal is always subjective.

    I can sort of agree about lord mechanics (at least the effort that seemingly went into them) although I can't say I'm a fan of easy mode OP mechanics and hope Throt's lab is not an "I win" button. To me the more important part about the new lords are how fun they are to play and how different they are to other lords of the faction in terms of playstyle (and also preferably that they are challenging). We don't know that about sisters yet.

    WE did get a ton of core mechanics changes though.
    Non monster units too can get new animations and models. For an example Spellweaver and Bladesinger could have been male characters. The WE are Elf/Forest Spirit faction and they don't have many forest spirits.

    From what I have seen, I doubt it.

    LLs are given to receive new animations, or at least that should be the case. Great Stag Knights do have new animations yes, but not all of them are new, and it is not a new model. Yes, Zoats have spell casting animation, that being said they should have been new models in order to look good, they don't look like Zoats proper. River Trolls might use the same rig but their animations are fresh. I don't think it is subjective at all.

    I don't know about easy, but Throt's lab appears to be interactive, and to offer replayability. It's simply fun at first glance.

    Eh, their new mechanics are decent but pretty lacklustre. The Weave, seasons and wild hunts have not been expanded, and offices remain the same. I would say that the Empire rework was better.
    Great stags have more new animations than you think, completely new ideal animations, new charge animations, and attack animations and likely more. Pretty sure I saw what looked like a sync kill of it Smashing some guy into the floor with its antlers.
    Great stags are a least semi new model at least, it's a different shape to the current stags in the game, and I am not just talking about size look at its head and neck.

    As for Zoats we haven't seen enough of them to judge yet, sure they are a remodel of the dragon ogres, but they could still have a lot of new animations.
    I haven't said that they don't have new animations, only that old ones also were used for them. I know, they look pretty great.

    I think that Zoats do have some new animations.
    There is no think about it. Their casters, dragon ogres were not.
    So far only one new animation has been confirmed, that's why I have said 'think' in the context of 'animations'.


    If you think there is just one then it's yet another thing that found you pretty dismissable when it comes to unit.

    Rapidly just becomes what you want to believe.
    I think that there are more than one animations, but I don't know it. That's how this exchange started.
    Already doing a synced animation on a rat, already doing a cast.

    Bliiiiiiiiiind.
    I have responded before seeing the gameplay trailer.
    It's in the regular reveal trailer. They use a lot of their regular animations in those.

    If you have been commenting all this time without watching the launch trailer then go away till you can do more than talk hot air.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,923
    Nyxilis said:

    Nyxilis said:

    Nyxilis said:

    Nyxilis said:

    Laindesh said:

    Laindesh said:

    Zekerath said:

    In defence of Great Stag Knights and Zoats: both have new animations*, but yes, both are also remodels. It is especially visible on the Zoat model, it should be bulkier and its legs structure is all wrong - it is a Dragon Ogre in a cosplay after all.

    *idle and charge for GSK and casting animation for a Zoat(I don't remember Dragon Ogres and Shaggots having it, but I might be not-right)


    What pains me the most is the lack of Spites unit and Shadowdancer hero. The Sisters are air focused faction, yet there is not even one air unit in the LP. Bat sized Spites would add a lot to them, and to Drycha too.


    eomat said:

    I'm interested to see the extra stuff that they are adding if we own all the DLC and game. So far CA have not only managed to make a DLC but a full magnificent rework and add extra stuff to a Race that was pretty much considered complete.

    Personally the only thing I still want is the Shadowdancer and it looks like we won't get that.

    I think they are far from completed.

    H: Shadowdancer

    Units:
    1. Spites
    2. Meadow Chariots
    3. Hounds
    4. And the other animals, especially Wild Cats
    5. Laith-Kourn
    6. Naiads - I would prefer them for th Bretonnia, but they are a valid option

    Variants:
    1. Arrow variants
    2. Visually distinctive Dryad variants
    Seeing how the glade captain has skills named after Loec, and one skill in particular that seems to give them a dance not unlike what wardancers have and gives wardancers and bladesingers vanguard, I think CA has simply merged shadowdancer with the glade captain. And as I have said in another thread, I don't think wood elves particularly need another spellcaster hero, especially since branchwraiths have access to lore of shadow spells that would be fitting to shadowdancer (in that respect, shadowdancer has been split between branchwraith and glade captain).

    So as much as I'd love to see shadowdancers too, I'm not particularly holding my breath.
    If that's true then it is a mistake. Shadowdancers should come with dances and lore of shadows.



    - The units and generic heroes we're getting, love them or hate them, are mostly re-skins, even the Zoats seemingly.
    I would say it's in line with previous dlcs, Great stag models are great, Zoats do seem to use dragon ogre chasis but still look nice. I would only be disappointed if I had unrealistic expectations about this dlc surpassing all the previous ones.

    No, absolutely not. Let's look at P&W:

    LL: Grom - new animations

    H: Giant River Hag Troll - new animations beyond those used by River Trolls

    1. Snotling Pump Wagons - new model and new animations
    2. River Trolls - new model and new animations
    3. Rogue Idol - new model and new animations
    4. Stone Dragons - recolour

    This LP is the first ever DLC for DLC, it should convince customers that paying twice will be worth it. So far every WE unit is a remodel and the Sisters new mechanic appears to be extremely lacklustre in comparison to Throt's labolatory.

    It should be better than the best LP ever, but it is not. It is in fact worse than the GS side of the last LP.


    This is a good reasonable post with no bloodshed. But i disagree, if this is all Woodies have left to offer, they are doner than done.

    I must disagree. Most of these units would flesh out the forest spirit side of the WE.
    You do not need to own game one nor RotWE to play this DLC though. So no they don't have to put more effort into the twilight DLC than usual. (Also: Sisters, Ariel, Throt and Ghoritch all with new animations etc makes up for whats missing with units).

    Drycha and rework is where they have to prove its worth getting game 1 and RotWE for.
    Only on the Vortex map. Yes, they do have to put more effort into the Twilight DLC because they are selling the WE for the second time, it's a matter of business practice, treatment of those who already own the WE DLC. It was CA's golden opportunity to show their customers that paying twice is worth it. DLC for DLC is a controversial subject for a reason.
    " DLC for DLC is a controversial subject for a reason." I won't disagree on that.

    If sisters really is just vortex (if you dont have RotWE) then fair point.
    Personally the quality of the FLC and rework also plays in though and can make up for it to an extent.
    I don't know if their ME access requires RotWE but it for sure requires Game1.


    No, absolutely not. Let's look at P&W:

    LL: Grom - new animations

    H: Giant River Hag Troll - new animations beyond those used by River Trolls

    1. Snotling Pump Wagons - new model and new animations
    2. River Trolls - new model and new animations
    3. Rogue Idol - new model and new animations
    4. Stone Dragons - recolour

    This LP is the first ever DLC for DLC, it should convince customers that paying twice will be worth it. So far every WE unit is a remodel and the Sisters new mechanic appears to be extremely lacklustre in comparison to Throt's labolatory.

    It should be better than the best LP ever, but it is not. It is in fact worse than the GS side of the last LP.

    By these standards any non monster unit is not a new unit and should come for free, right? But WE are not a monster heavy faction. And humanoid units are not free to make. I'm pretty sure Empire fans would be super happy to get Knights of the White Wolf, Teutogen Guard or Warrior Priests of Ulrik, with no monstrous models attached.

    Bladesingers, Glade Captains, Spellweavers might or might not have new animations, we don't know that.

    Even then Sisters, Ariel, Great Stag mounts, Great Stag knights are completely new models with new animations and while Zoats do use Dragon Ogre chassis (you can argue about River Trolls also being just reskinned Trolls tbh) they do seem to have new animations. So on the unit side it seems close to me, of course who got the better deal is always subjective.

    I can sort of agree about lord mechanics (at least the effort that seemingly went into them) although I can't say I'm a fan of easy mode OP mechanics and hope Throt's lab is not an "I win" button. To me the more important part about the new lords are how fun they are to play and how different they are to other lords of the faction in terms of playstyle (and also preferably that they are challenging). We don't know that about sisters yet.

    WE did get a ton of core mechanics changes though.
    Non monster units too can get new animations and models. For an example Spellweaver and Bladesinger could have been male characters. The WE are Elf/Forest Spirit faction and they don't have many forest spirits.

    From what I have seen, I doubt it.

    LLs are given to receive new animations, or at least that should be the case. Great Stag Knights do have new animations yes, but not all of them are new, and it is not a new model. Yes, Zoats have spell casting animation, that being said they should have been new models in order to look good, they don't look like Zoats proper. River Trolls might use the same rig but their animations are fresh. I don't think it is subjective at all.

    I don't know about easy, but Throt's lab appears to be interactive, and to offer replayability. It's simply fun at first glance.

    Eh, their new mechanics are decent but pretty lacklustre. The Weave, seasons and wild hunts have not been expanded, and offices remain the same. I would say that the Empire rework was better.
    Great stags have more new animations than you think, completely new ideal animations, new charge animations, and attack animations and likely more. Pretty sure I saw what looked like a sync kill of it Smashing some guy into the floor with its antlers.
    Great stags are a least semi new model at least, it's a different shape to the current stags in the game, and I am not just talking about size look at its head and neck.

    As for Zoats we haven't seen enough of them to judge yet, sure they are a remodel of the dragon ogres, but they could still have a lot of new animations.
    I haven't said that they don't have new animations, only that old ones also were used for them. I know, they look pretty great.

    I think that Zoats do have some new animations.
    There is no think about it. Their casters, dragon ogres were not.
    So far only one new animation has been confirmed, that's why I have said 'think' in the context of 'animations'.


    If you think there is just one then it's yet another thing that found you pretty dismissable when it comes to unit.

    Rapidly just becomes what you want to believe.
    I think that there are more than one animations, but I don't know it. That's how this exchange started.
    Already doing a synced animation on a rat, already doing a cast.

    Bliiiiiiiiiind.
    I have responded before seeing the gameplay trailer.
    It's in the regular reveal trailer. They use a lot of their regular animations in those.

    If you have been commenting all this time without watching the launch trailer then go away till you can do more than talk hot air.
    I must have missed it then.

    I have specifically said 'gameplay trailer', that is the one released yesterday.
    animacja-sygn-3.gif


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