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Skaven – Not Fun to play against

KixionKixion UKRegistered Users Posts: 141
They are thematically appropriate for the most part, but they are so annoying to play against that it’s just irritating to deal with them. This isn’t to say I find them OP, they certainly are beatable and based on the fact that they win and lose in different parts of the world, they are probably well balanced in fact. (Not a Skaven player so I can’t and won’t comment further on their balancing). They being said they mechanics are all time consuming to deal with relative to their counterparts.
• You have to move extremely carefully in their regions because ambush attacks.
• Likewise, if they are coming for you in number, you’d best counterattack them first because they can easily ambush stacks individually with multiple stacks of their own.
• The nuke is a thing, usually means I have to sit in recruitment for X turns after scraping the army off my boot. I wouldn’t mind this in and off itself but given Skaven have the spawns that require you to be prepared to protect your squishies along with other nuke-like spells, it’s a combo that should leave a smoke cloud in the shape of a middle finger. You will lose units, even if you can stomp the army. It’s actually better when you lose the fight, it’s not a bad thing to lose against.
• I really hate that pestilence mechanic, It’s a ritual and I like that it’s one that affects the enemy but thing usually just amounts to shutting down any active play for a half dozen turns. When the counter to a mechanic is; just don’t play the game, I struggle to see how this is seen as anything other than the BS it is.

For me this just means I go out of my way to commit genocide every time I encounter them because the amount of turns that will set me back is usually less than how setback i would be dealing with them as I deal with other races. When the most fun way for me to play is to immediately commit all resources to wiping out an entire race, the thought crosses my mind maybe that’s something that should be looked into. And I don’t think this means Skaven need to even be changed fundamentally. I do think there should be things that I can do to counter at least some of the above however. For instance; some, but not all, races lord’s have a campaign skill to give ambush defense chance. Given these lines were designed before Ambush stance was a thing, perhaps this is something that could be looked back into.

Have to say this new Skaven patch is interesting. Frankly, I am hoping they gave a battlefield presence buff so toning back some of these features doesn't render them unplayable. That said I am equal parts concerned I am just going to have to deal with even more [email protected]"$% from them. Fingers crossed.

Maybe this opinion is unique to me, but as it's probably not I figured posting it doesn't hurt anyone.

Lastly, probably doesn't need saying but for context I am talking about this from the perspective of single and coop campaigns.

Comments

  • vg45vg45 DenmarkRegistered Users Posts: 140
    Skaven should have the same basic stance as everyone else and ambush like normal factions, it feels incredibly stupid to use or have used against you, unlike ambushes you have to set up with bait and ambush stance which usually feel pretty good to pull off. Maybe a few clans could keep it, but I honestly want the mechanic gone from every faction. It is a completely overpowered mechanic when High Elves can have two archer heavy stacks in encampment stance and then the Skaven can walk up with two stacks and ambush them one at a time, not only preventing reinforcements while allowing theirs to come in but also getting advanced deployment and screwing up the archer deployment lines. It is too easy. I have played at least a campaign with each faction and most of them are so strong they won't be missing this mechanic much, especially Skryre, Beastmen are not nearly as strong as the other factions with this mechanic and Naggarythe, Morrs and Rictus have decently difficult starts at least, but replacing it with a decreased likelihood of being spotted in ambush stance would make it possible to pull off actual ambushes and not just this one-click RNG claptrap. Skaven might have needed this mechanic to stand out before they got the under empire and a bunch of very unique and amazing sub-factions, but it should go. Beastmen don't even get to make full use of it because it has anti-synergy with their stupid bray hordes.

    I don't know about it being weird to want to eradicate Skaven, it makes perfect sense to want to get every single one of them gone because of their various mechanics which seem to be engineered to be annoying, like covertly settling in ruins so you don't know whether you are walking into danger or where their last settlement is hiding and then the fact that they are disease-spreading rats. I think Skaven should be annoying and I love to hate them as much as I love to love them, I just think this mechanic of ambushing on the attack is too easy and too strong and I still think you will want to put Skaven on a high priority list of enemies to kill without it. One thing I will note is that the AI seems to heavily under-utilize actual ambushes and reversely they seem to be very adept at figuring out when the RNG will be in their favour in regards to the ambush on attack mechanic.

    I had a campaign ruined by a turn 10 ambush, the clan Moulder Skaven with whom I had a non-aggression pact decided to run out from their little pit and ambush and destroy my Chaos army because I trespassed in marching stance. Marching stance is one thing, but being ambushed in marching stance is a death sentence that early. This harrowing experience led me to play like a total coward in my most recent Chaos campaign and it honestly wasn't very fun to play Wait for Horde Growth Simulator, but when you can't rely on Skaven following non-aggression pacts... Usually, when I get hit by a 30% ambush magically going off against me again I will just save scum and take another approach, go slowly with ambush stance until I can reach and attack their settlements because for some reason the AI hates making ambush-stance ambushes next to their cities as much as they love one-click ambushing me.

    I don't think the nuke is a problem, I laughed the last time I got nuked, it was a fun surprise. The plague mechanic is amazing IMO, no changes required on that front, trying to navigate a land that has been hit by plague is a lot of fun.

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