Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

Mods for Skaven Weapon team unreliably

gunner8521gunner8521 Registered Users Posts: 488
Hi Does anyone know of any mods which implement Skaven weapon team exploding either at random or through an ability which trades off higher damage/reload at the chance of Exploding? I always thought that that is how they should have made Skryre units as its loreful and kind balances Skaven.

I also want to use it for a potential Skaven campaign after the DLC drops.

Comments

  • DjauDjau Registered Users Posts: 7,851
    You can't balance around randomness; bad RNG happens.
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.

    We're paying full price for a Chaos Warrior of Tzeentch without any actual Tzeentch markings or changes to the model? Change this now CA, #JusticeForTzeentch #TLM
  • NeodeinosNeodeinos Registered Users Posts: 12,407
    I think CTT does that for the Skaven but it's a battle overhaul so it changes a lot.
    #JusticeForTzeentch
    #JusticeForMonogods

  • gunner8521gunner8521 Registered Users Posts: 488
    Amonkhet said:

    You can't balance around randomness; bad RNG happens.

    I don't really get that line of thinking with Tabletop's whole Skaven Shtick was randomness mixed with super powerful stuff. Hellpit Abominations and Phoenixes have their RNG health increases they those can clutch multiplayer games if it activates.
  • gunner8521gunner8521 Registered Users Posts: 488
    neodeinos said:

    I think CTT does that for the Skaven but it's a battle overhaul so it changes a lot.

    Also what is the CTT's full name so I can search for it?
  • NeodeinosNeodeinos Registered Users Posts: 12,407

    neodeinos said:

    I think CTT does that for the Skaven but it's a battle overhaul so it changes a lot.

    Also what is the CTT's full name so I can search for it?
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1214959308
    #JusticeForTzeentch
    #JusticeForMonogods

  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,590
    Amonkhet said:

    You can't balance around randomness; bad RNG happens.

    That's exactly the character of it though. When it works, it works. When it doesn't, it explodes. It's called calculated risk.

    It's what keeps Skaven from showing up with an army of nothing but weapons teams :-P
  • Rob18446Rob18446 Registered Users Posts: 2,091
    Itharus said:

    Amonkhet said:

    You can't balance around randomness; bad RNG happens.

    That's exactly the character of it though. When it works, it works. When it doesn't, it explodes. It's called calculated risk.

    It's what keeps Skaven from showing up with an army of nothing but weapons teams :-P
    It worked on TT becuase it's a dice game, a weapon team rolling a 1 and blowing up is fine becuase it's a game where your expensive dragon lord could also roll all 1's and do nothing, the entire game in RNG. This game is not and it wouldnt fit, I can promise you no matter how much you insist you'd find it fun, losing a campaign because your best army's weapons all blew up in the first five seconds because of RNG would not be fun.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,900
    edited November 2020
    Itharus said:

    Amonkhet said:

    You can't balance around randomness; bad RNG happens.

    That's exactly the character of it though. When it works, it works. When it doesn't, it explodes. It's called calculated risk.

    It's what keeps Skaven from showing up with an army of nothing but weapons teams :-P
    Except it didn't work, so they removed that aspect from the Skaven in AoS. In AoS, you have to deliberately overcharge your weapons to have a chance of hurting yourself, but if you don't do that they work reliably.

    Having a huge variance in performance makes it impossible to formulate any strategies for anything.
  • Tanegashima_TokitakaTanegashima_Tokitaka Registered Users Posts: 77
    You could easily (in theory) add an innate ability to all weapon teams with % chance to trigger a massive explosion centered on itself when you pass a certain ammo threshold...
  • KN_GarsKN_Gars Registered Users Posts: 1,625



    Except it didn't work, so they removed that aspect from the Skaven in AoS. In AoS, you have to deliberately overcharge your weapons to have a chance of hurting yourself, but if you don't do that they work reliably.

    Having a huge variance in performance makes it impossible to formulate any strategies for anything.

    It worked just fine for 28 years, 22 if you leave out 'Oldhammer' and only count 4th to 8th edition. Skaven players knew about the mechanic before they started colleting and could at least stand it if they did not find it one of the fun things about the race. Most I played against thoroughly enjoyed it and could take just as much delight in their plans going hillariously wrong as they did in the plans working out. The quirkyness of the Skaven is of course why they never were more than averagely popular, at least not in competetive play. When GW decided to remove the quirks and charm of the Skaven it was purely a buisness decision to increase sales just as the removal of certain units during the existence of WFB had nothing to do with game balance and everything with GW selling new and more expensive models to players who had just lost a good part of their army thanks to new rules changes.

    Perfectly possible to formulate tactics with great differences in performance, that is what actual warfare is all about. Works well for wargames too as proved by games as far apart as WFB and the Firaxis X-COM series, you just have to plan for failure, what impact will this move failing have on my plan and what is my plan B when failure invariably occurs.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,590
    Exactly. As a GS person - this was all over the place too, especially in 40k. It was perfectly fine and made for some truly epic moments. Sometimes just recovering is a huge part of the fun. Hell, sometimes the mishap will hurt the enemy too :)

    There is not fun only in victory. The win is not the end all be all most important thing.

    It's the journey.

    This is not the sort of game where there is no randomness, and it's not based on that crap-lousy game AoS.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,900
    edited November 2020
    KN_Gars said:



    Except it didn't work, so they removed that aspect from the Skaven in AoS. In AoS, you have to deliberately overcharge your weapons to have a chance of hurting yourself, but if you don't do that they work reliably.

    Having a huge variance in performance makes it impossible to formulate any strategies for anything.

    It worked just fine for 28 years, 22 if you leave out 'Oldhammer' and only count 4th to 8th edition. Skaven players knew about the mechanic before they started colleting and could at least stand it if they did not find it one of the fun things about the race. Most I played against thoroughly enjoyed it and could take just as much delight in their plans going hillariously wrong as they did in the plans working out. The quirkyness of the Skaven is of course why they never were more than averagely popular, at least not in competetive play. When GW decided to remove the quirks and charm of the Skaven it was purely a buisness decision to increase sales just as the removal of certain units during the existence of WFB had nothing to do with game balance and everything with GW selling new and more expensive models to players who had just lost a good part of their army thanks to new rules changes.

    Perfectly possible to formulate tactics with great differences in performance, that is what actual warfare is all about. Works well for wargames too as proved by games as far apart as WFB and the Firaxis X-COM series, you just have to plan for failure, what impact will this move failing have on my plan and what is my plan B when failure invariably occurs.
    It didn't work, that's why it was removed and guess what, nobody cried a tear after the old LOLRandom.

    Bringing up X-Com is a Red Herring because your troops don't randomly kill themselves with their own gear over their and it also doesn't randomly have twice or thrice as much power output.

    So not at all similar to what you're demanding.

    You just want Skaven to be bottom tier again which would happen if you nerfed them hard in this way.

    Nope, will never support this nonsense.
  • KN_GarsKN_Gars Registered Users Posts: 1,625

    >

    It didn't work, that's why it was removed and guess what, nobody cried a tear after the old LOLRandom.

    Bringing up X-Com is a Red Herring because your troops don't randomly kill themselves with their own gear over their and it also doesn't randomly have twice or thrice as much power output.

    So not at all similar to what you're demanding.

    You just want Skaven to be bottom tier again which would happen if you nerfed them hard in this way.

    Nope, will never support this nonsense.

    Yeah, nice try telling the Warhammer veteran with 20 years experience of that game what did and did not work, my guess is that I played editions that are older than you are ;-) The fact is that during the life cycle of WFB GW added RNG to the Skaven in each new edition and actually made them abit worse when something happend. Strange way to act if the mechanic "didn't work".

    You not liking a mechanic and it not working are two different things and given that a significant number of WFB players quit playing after GW destroyed the game and setting the supposed word of those that transfered to AoS is of limited value. While X-Com does indeed not have exactly the same form of RNG mechanic it is a RNG heavy game where the effects of RNG can go heavily against you. Playing TT Skaven was very much like playing XCOM with a lot of high risk high reward moves rather than doing a safe overwatch crawl.

    Skaven RNG mechanics never gave them 2-3 times the power output as a simple check of the army books will show. Nor did they just "randomly" kill the weapons teams either, something which you would have known if you had experience with the Skaven in TT. Effects included simple misfires that prevented you from shooting, firing in an unexpected direction and indeed explosions that destroyed the weapon or team.

    I've not demanded anything, to claim otherwise is a lie. As much as I would like to see the TT style Skaven return I konw that not only is not a game experience for anyone but having TT Skaven in the game is well and truly a ship that have sailed. What I do think that the Skaven need and with this CA seems to agree is a risk-reward playstyle. As Moulder you can load up your troops with mutations but each step increases the chance of something going wrong. A good mechanic that I would love to se retrofitted to Skryre but that won't happen.

    No one is talking about nerfing the Skaven to bottom tier but the current trend of the Skaven being OP with few to no weaknesses is not just wrong from a lore standpoint but it is also bad game design. At least if you want to retain asymetrical game balance that made TWWH so good in the begining. Otherwise it is time for other factions to be given the Skaven treatment as well.
Sign In or Register to comment.