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Middle Earth is possible in total war.

2

Comments

  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,313
    jamreal18 said:

    @davedave1124 have you seen any of the 3 mods I mentioned?

    What is your opinion about BFME 2?

    What do you want to say to those who play Third Age Mod?

    Warlocke said:

    It’s very similar to WH with less variety and is a more expensive license.

    So what if it less varied than Warhammer? Do LotR fans complain?

    More expensive? Do you know the exact amount? People also said before that WH rights was expensive. I believe the rights for games is cheaper than the rights for tv/movie productions.

    So which fantasy game will be made into total war in your opinion?
    I think they should continue playing it.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 211

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.

    So then your lack of diversity does not apply to total factions but units, and not on all factions just the free peoples factions. As I said before you show evidence of only having seen the movies. I have taken notes through my readings and have come up with hundreds of various units. The third age mod has done a great job but even they could not make all units such as eagles etc. Yes, Rohan [who would be my first choice] would be limited in selection, but you can always choose another more diverse faction if you wish. But how less divers are they than a typical historical tw game? How many men factions have a womrtounge, a saurman, a gandalf, flying giant eagles, and dwarves and elves interacting with them?

    the units would be standard anglo Saxon units plus calvary, like spearmen, swordsmen, horse archers, calvary, general body guards, kings guards, peasants, generals etc but it is no less diverse than any normal human faction. And to me I am ok with that, I love rohan [who also vary in units from each district] and they would be my top choice.
    jamreal18 said:

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.
    Do you know Third Age Mod?
    How about Rise of Mordor Mod?
    How about Last Alliance?

    So can you tell all those modders that LotR is poorly balanced for TW?
    1. I don't care about some mod.
    2. The fact that you believe having half the factions with quite tedious standard army make ups against the infinitely more interesting evil factions is ok.. and why not play a different faction (an evil faction?)
    3. You've not said anything that will make the human factions more interesting. The weight of the book series was to show the struggle of man against terrible unachievable odds.

    Unless they totally make up new good factions, this will be an unbalanced game.

    The reference to the mod was to show just how much variation is available if one is willing to accept it. The fact you claim half the factions are men shows how little you know.


    You misunderstand Tolkien on so many levels I am unsure of where to start. even if the ring had not been destroyed let's say it was hidden. After minis Tirith Sauron would be boxed in Mordor, dol guldor destroyed after failed attempts on Lorien, and the Easterlings dispersed in the north after the siege of Erebor. Nowhere is it a struggle of men, but of free peoples vs sauron. Elves, dwarves, ents, eagles, hobbits, dead armies etc and more played a role aginst him.


    I know it is hard for anyone to see how they could disagree with ourselves, but to me I would if i had the choice, be a free peoples faction 90% of the time. I would rather fight for the side i love than what represents evil to me, the shadow. I would love to be the rohhirm [who are as diverse as 99.9% of all tw factions ever made] and fight aginst those evil monsters. I would love to have a chance of allying with galadriel or elrond in battle aginst the balrog in moria. To fight along side or recruit treebeard and the ents to wipe out the wizard saruman. To combine with dwraves, men and elves in an assault on dol guldor. To receive the aid of giant eagles and a great wandering wizard as i repel nazgul from my lands. to befriend argaorn and team up with his summoned army of the dead to retake the lost city of gondor. To retreat to my fortress of helms deep when needed.

    I see far more divserity in playing this "man" faction then 99.9% of any tw game made. Both in who i fight aginst, and who i fight beside. if you don't think it is diverse enough, play as elves, or dwarves, or an evil faction. Or, don't buy the game or wait for a mod or exspansion on the first two ages that would unlock far more diversity. Because for everyone like you who don't like the free peoples, there are some like me who would much rather play as a free peoples nation.





    You write a lot but say little -

    Rohan - horse lord faction, similar to your average ToB faction.

    Gondor - heavy infantry faction, with light infantry scouts.

    These 2 are the main factions of men but will not translate to TW

    What exciting units do the Dwarfs have?

    What exciting units do the Elves have?

    Don’t talk fluff just give hard facts. I’m saying the good units have little diversity and repeating Eagles and Ents isn’t going to change this. You’re suggesting the only way you can change this is to combine the good army into one huge mess?

    This is a fact - the good armies are not diverse and will not stack against WHTW, at best we could get s Saga game out of it.

    Let’s see your unit list prove me wrong.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?654-Third-Age-Total-War
    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?1154-Sub-Mods&s=587d0dfc684efd91f8648315423e1bc0

    The above links to mods already created will show you the dozens of factions and hundreds of units on the free people's side alone. That is why we tried to get you to look them up to cure your lack of knowledge on the subject you post about.


    what you have done is created middle earth that lacks diversity because it is created in your mind only. You then are unwilling to accept the real world of Tolkiens that is very diverse so you can then claim it is not and thus, would be a bad idea. why? only you can tell us. But here is an idea, if you think the free peoples are not as diverse as you would like, play as the shadow factions or don't play at all. Warhammer i am told is more diverse than lotr, yet I would never play Warhammer because I have no interest in it. no one would like every tw game ever made.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?

    and why should we take seriously your claims and objections when you understand so little of Tolkien's world? we do not suggest ca make a game based on your lack of knowledge of middle-earth but on Tolkien's creation.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,313

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.

    So then your lack of diversity does not apply to total factions but units, and not on all factions just the free peoples factions. As I said before you show evidence of only having seen the movies. I have taken notes through my readings and have come up with hundreds of various units. The third age mod has done a great job but even they could not make all units such as eagles etc. Yes, Rohan [who would be my first choice] would be limited in selection, but you can always choose another more diverse faction if you wish. But how less divers are they than a typical historical tw game? How many men factions have a womrtounge, a saurman, a gandalf, flying giant eagles, and dwarves and elves interacting with them?

    the units would be standard anglo Saxon units plus calvary, like spearmen, swordsmen, horse archers, calvary, general body guards, kings guards, peasants, generals etc but it is no less diverse than any normal human faction. And to me I am ok with that, I love rohan [who also vary in units from each district] and they would be my top choice.
    jamreal18 said:

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.
    Do you know Third Age Mod?
    How about Rise of Mordor Mod?
    How about Last Alliance?

    So can you tell all those modders that LotR is poorly balanced for TW?
    1. I don't care about some mod.
    2. The fact that you believe having half the factions with quite tedious standard army make ups against the infinitely more interesting evil factions is ok.. and why not play a different faction (an evil faction?)
    3. You've not said anything that will make the human factions more interesting. The weight of the book series was to show the struggle of man against terrible unachievable odds.

    Unless they totally make up new good factions, this will be an unbalanced game.

    The reference to the mod was to show just how much variation is available if one is willing to accept it. The fact you claim half the factions are men shows how little you know.


    You misunderstand Tolkien on so many levels I am unsure of where to start. even if the ring had not been destroyed let's say it was hidden. After minis Tirith Sauron would be boxed in Mordor, dol guldor destroyed after failed attempts on Lorien, and the Easterlings dispersed in the north after the siege of Erebor. Nowhere is it a struggle of men, but of free peoples vs sauron. Elves, dwarves, ents, eagles, hobbits, dead armies etc and more played a role aginst him.


    I know it is hard for anyone to see how they could disagree with ourselves, but to me I would if i had the choice, be a free peoples faction 90% of the time. I would rather fight for the side i love than what represents evil to me, the shadow. I would love to be the rohhirm [who are as diverse as 99.9% of all tw factions ever made] and fight aginst those evil monsters. I would love to have a chance of allying with galadriel or elrond in battle aginst the balrog in moria. To fight along side or recruit treebeard and the ents to wipe out the wizard saruman. To combine with dwraves, men and elves in an assault on dol guldor. To receive the aid of giant eagles and a great wandering wizard as i repel nazgul from my lands. to befriend argaorn and team up with his summoned army of the dead to retake the lost city of gondor. To retreat to my fortress of helms deep when needed.

    I see far more divserity in playing this "man" faction then 99.9% of any tw game made. Both in who i fight aginst, and who i fight beside. if you don't think it is diverse enough, play as elves, or dwarves, or an evil faction. Or, don't buy the game or wait for a mod or exspansion on the first two ages that would unlock far more diversity. Because for everyone like you who don't like the free peoples, there are some like me who would much rather play as a free peoples nation.





    You write a lot but say little -

    Rohan - horse lord faction, similar to your average ToB faction.

    Gondor - heavy infantry faction, with light infantry scouts.

    These 2 are the main factions of men but will not translate to TW

    What exciting units do the Dwarfs have?

    What exciting units do the Elves have?

    Don’t talk fluff just give hard facts. I’m saying the good units have little diversity and repeating Eagles and Ents isn’t going to change this. You’re suggesting the only way you can change this is to combine the good army into one huge mess?

    This is a fact - the good armies are not diverse and will not stack against WHTW, at best we could get s Saga game out of it.

    Let’s see your unit list prove me wrong.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?654-Third-Age-Total-War
    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?1154-Sub-Mods&s=587d0dfc684efd91f8648315423e1bc0

    The above links to mods already created will show you the dozens of factions and hundreds of units on the free people's side alone. That is why we tried to get you to look them up to cure your lack of knowledge on the subject you post about.


    what you have done is created middle earth that lacks diversity because it is created in your mind only. You then are unwilling to accept the real world of Tolkiens that is very diverse so you can then claim it is not and thus, would be a bad idea. why? only you can tell us. But here is an idea, if you think the free peoples are not as diverse as you would like, play as the shadow factions or don't play at all. Warhammer i am told is more diverse than lotr, yet I would never play Warhammer because I have no interest in it. no one would like every tw game ever made.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?

    and why should we take seriously your claims and objections when you understand so little of Tolkien's world? we do not suggest ca make a game based on your lack of knowledge of middle-earth but on Tolkien's creation.
    I asked for an army list for at least Rohan and Gondor, I assume you didn't give them because you know how limited they are.

    Again, I have no interest in mods, they can make it up as they go a long and I suspect there are some real BS units in there.

    CA have never done an 'all era' game as it wouldn't work. If people see a LoTR licence they will expect to see the version they are familiar with.

    Now.. let's see this diverse list you're picturing..
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,518
    edited December 2020

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.

    So then your lack of diversity does not apply to total factions but units, and not on all factions just the free peoples factions. As I said before you show evidence of only having seen the movies. I have taken notes through my readings and have come up with hundreds of various units. The third age mod has done a great job but even they could not make all units such as eagles etc. Yes, Rohan [who would be my first choice] would be limited in selection, but you can always choose another more diverse faction if you wish. But how less divers are they than a typical historical tw game? How many men factions have a womrtounge, a saurman, a gandalf, flying giant eagles, and dwarves and elves interacting with them?

    the units would be standard anglo Saxon units plus calvary, like spearmen, swordsmen, horse archers, calvary, general body guards, kings guards, peasants, generals etc but it is no less diverse than any normal human faction. And to me I am ok with that, I love rohan [who also vary in units from each district] and they would be my top choice.
    jamreal18 said:

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.
    Do you know Third Age Mod?
    How about Rise of Mordor Mod?
    How about Last Alliance?

    So can you tell all those modders that LotR is poorly balanced for TW?
    1. I don't care about some mod.
    2. The fact that you believe having half the factions with quite tedious standard army make ups against the infinitely more interesting evil factions is ok.. and why not play a different faction (an evil faction?)
    3. You've not said anything that will make the human factions more interesting. The weight of the book series was to show the struggle of man against terrible unachievable odds.

    Unless they totally make up new good factions, this will be an unbalanced game.

    The reference to the mod was to show just how much variation is available if one is willing to accept it. The fact you claim half the factions are men shows how little you know.


    You misunderstand Tolkien on so many levels I am unsure of where to start. even if the ring had not been destroyed let's say it was hidden. After minis Tirith Sauron would be boxed in Mordor, dol guldor destroyed after failed attempts on Lorien, and the Easterlings dispersed in the north after the siege of Erebor. Nowhere is it a struggle of men, but of free peoples vs sauron. Elves, dwarves, ents, eagles, hobbits, dead armies etc and more played a role aginst him.


    I know it is hard for anyone to see how they could disagree with ourselves, but to me I would if i had the choice, be a free peoples faction 90% of the time. I would rather fight for the side i love than what represents evil to me, the shadow. I would love to be the rohhirm [who are as diverse as 99.9% of all tw factions ever made] and fight aginst those evil monsters. I would love to have a chance of allying with galadriel or elrond in battle aginst the balrog in moria. To fight along side or recruit treebeard and the ents to wipe out the wizard saruman. To combine with dwraves, men and elves in an assault on dol guldor. To receive the aid of giant eagles and a great wandering wizard as i repel nazgul from my lands. to befriend argaorn and team up with his summoned army of the dead to retake the lost city of gondor. To retreat to my fortress of helms deep when needed.

    I see far more divserity in playing this "man" faction then 99.9% of any tw game made. Both in who i fight aginst, and who i fight beside. if you don't think it is diverse enough, play as elves, or dwarves, or an evil faction. Or, don't buy the game or wait for a mod or exspansion on the first two ages that would unlock far more diversity. Because for everyone like you who don't like the free peoples, there are some like me who would much rather play as a free peoples nation.





    You write a lot but say little -

    Rohan - horse lord faction, similar to your average ToB faction.

    Gondor - heavy infantry faction, with light infantry scouts.

    These 2 are the main factions of men but will not translate to TW

    What exciting units do the Dwarfs have?

    What exciting units do the Elves have?

    Don’t talk fluff just give hard facts. I’m saying the good units have little diversity and repeating Eagles and Ents isn’t going to change this. You’re suggesting the only way you can change this is to combine the good army into one huge mess?

    This is a fact - the good armies are not diverse and will not stack against WHTW, at best we could get s Saga game out of it.

    Let’s see your unit list prove me wrong.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?654-Third-Age-Total-War
    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?1154-Sub-Mods&s=587d0dfc684efd91f8648315423e1bc0

    The above links to mods already created will show you the dozens of factions and hundreds of units on the free people's side alone. That is why we tried to get you to look them up to cure your lack of knowledge on the subject you post about.


    what you have done is created middle earth that lacks diversity because it is created in your mind only. You then are unwilling to accept the real world of Tolkiens that is very diverse so you can then claim it is not and thus, would be a bad idea. why? only you can tell us. But here is an idea, if you think the free peoples are not as diverse as you would like, play as the shadow factions or don't play at all. Warhammer i am told is more diverse than lotr, yet I would never play Warhammer because I have no interest in it. no one would like every tw game ever made.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?

    and why should we take seriously your claims and objections when you understand so little of Tolkien's world? we do not suggest ca make a game based on your lack of knowledge of middle-earth but on Tolkien's creation.
    I asked for an army list for at least Rohan and Gondor, I assume you didn't give them because you know how limited they are.

    Again, I have no interest in mods, they can make it up as they go a long and I suspect there are some real BS units in there.

    CA have never done an 'all era' game as it wouldn't work. If people see a LoTR licence they will expect to see the version they are familiar with.

    Now.. let's see this diverse list you're picturing..
    How about Troy? Don't you like what CA has done to their unit roster?

    If you do, why wouldn't it work on LOTR?

    ------------
    May I ask what era do you want for total war and can you please lay-out your expected unit roster for each playable faction?

    Now.. let's see this diverse list you're picturing..
    Post edited by jamreal18 on
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 211

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.

    So then your lack of diversity does not apply to total factions but units, and not on all factions just the free peoples factions. As I said before you show evidence of only having seen the movies. I have taken notes through my readings and have come up with hundreds of various units. The third age mod has done a great job but even they could not make all units such as eagles etc. Yes, Rohan [who would be my first choice] would be limited in selection, but you can always choose another more diverse faction if you wish. But how less divers are they than a typical historical tw game? How many men factions have a womrtounge, a saurman, a gandalf, flying giant eagles, and dwarves and elves interacting with them?

    the units would be standard anglo Saxon units plus calvary, like spearmen, swordsmen, horse archers, calvary, general body guards, kings guards, peasants, generals etc but it is no less diverse than any normal human faction. And to me I am ok with that, I love rohan [who also vary in units from each district] and they would be my top choice.
    jamreal18 said:

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.
    Do you know Third Age Mod?
    How about Rise of Mordor Mod?
    How about Last Alliance?

    So can you tell all those modders that LotR is poorly balanced for TW?
    1. I don't care about some mod.
    2. The fact that you believe having half the factions with quite tedious standard army make ups against the infinitely more interesting evil factions is ok.. and why not play a different faction (an evil faction?)
    3. You've not said anything that will make the human factions more interesting. The weight of the book series was to show the struggle of man against terrible unachievable odds.

    Unless they totally make up new good factions, this will be an unbalanced game.

    The reference to the mod was to show just how much variation is available if one is willing to accept it. The fact you claim half the factions are men shows how little you know.


    You misunderstand Tolkien on so many levels I am unsure of where to start. even if the ring had not been destroyed let's say it was hidden. After minis Tirith Sauron would be boxed in Mordor, dol guldor destroyed after failed attempts on Lorien, and the Easterlings dispersed in the north after the siege of Erebor. Nowhere is it a struggle of men, but of free peoples vs sauron. Elves, dwarves, ents, eagles, hobbits, dead armies etc and more played a role aginst him.


    I know it is hard for anyone to see how they could disagree with ourselves, but to me I would if i had the choice, be a free peoples faction 90% of the time. I would rather fight for the side i love than what represents evil to me, the shadow. I would love to be the rohhirm [who are as diverse as 99.9% of all tw factions ever made] and fight aginst those evil monsters. I would love to have a chance of allying with galadriel or elrond in battle aginst the balrog in moria. To fight along side or recruit treebeard and the ents to wipe out the wizard saruman. To combine with dwraves, men and elves in an assault on dol guldor. To receive the aid of giant eagles and a great wandering wizard as i repel nazgul from my lands. to befriend argaorn and team up with his summoned army of the dead to retake the lost city of gondor. To retreat to my fortress of helms deep when needed.

    I see far more divserity in playing this "man" faction then 99.9% of any tw game made. Both in who i fight aginst, and who i fight beside. if you don't think it is diverse enough, play as elves, or dwarves, or an evil faction. Or, don't buy the game or wait for a mod or exspansion on the first two ages that would unlock far more diversity. Because for everyone like you who don't like the free peoples, there are some like me who would much rather play as a free peoples nation.





    You write a lot but say little -

    Rohan - horse lord faction, similar to your average ToB faction.

    Gondor - heavy infantry faction, with light infantry scouts.

    These 2 are the main factions of men but will not translate to TW

    What exciting units do the Dwarfs have?

    What exciting units do the Elves have?

    Don’t talk fluff just give hard facts. I’m saying the good units have little diversity and repeating Eagles and Ents isn’t going to change this. You’re suggesting the only way you can change this is to combine the good army into one huge mess?

    This is a fact - the good armies are not diverse and will not stack against WHTW, at best we could get s Saga game out of it.

    Let’s see your unit list prove me wrong.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?654-Third-Age-Total-War
    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?1154-Sub-Mods&s=587d0dfc684efd91f8648315423e1bc0

    The above links to mods already created will show you the dozens of factions and hundreds of units on the free people's side alone. That is why we tried to get you to look them up to cure your lack of knowledge on the subject you post about.


    what you have done is created middle earth that lacks diversity because it is created in your mind only. You then are unwilling to accept the real world of Tolkiens that is very diverse so you can then claim it is not and thus, would be a bad idea. why? only you can tell us. But here is an idea, if you think the free peoples are not as diverse as you would like, play as the shadow factions or don't play at all. Warhammer i am told is more diverse than lotr, yet I would never play Warhammer because I have no interest in it. no one would like every tw game ever made.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?

    and why should we take seriously your claims and objections when you understand so little of Tolkien's world? we do not suggest ca make a game based on your lack of knowledge of middle-earth but on Tolkien's creation.
    I asked for an army list for at least Rohan and Gondor, I assume you didn't give them because you know how limited they are.

    Again, I have no interest in mods, they can make it up as they go a long and I suspect there are some real BS units in there.

    CA have never done an 'all era' game as it wouldn't work. If people see a LoTR licence they will expect to see the version they are familiar with.

    Now.. let's see this diverse list you're picturing..

    So in other words shut your eyes cover your ears you refuse to read links to mods that have the units you ask for [and even they are not all that could be] . I think you have shown us just where you are coming from. You create middle earth in your mins without much diversity and refuse to accept Tolkiens world. So i will agree with you, the world you say is middle earth is not diverse, but i ask for tolkiens middle earth not yours. so as i said before


    what you have done is created middle earth that lacks diversity because it is created in your mind only. You then are unwilling to accept the real world of Tolkiens that is very diverse so you can then claim it is not and thus, would be a bad idea. why? only you can tell us.



    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?

    and why should we take seriously your claims and objections when you understand so little of Tolkien's world? we do not suggest ca make a game based on your lack of knowledge of middle-earth but on Tolkien's creation.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,313

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.

    So then your lack of diversity does not apply to total factions but units, and not on all factions just the free peoples factions. As I said before you show evidence of only having seen the movies. I have taken notes through my readings and have come up with hundreds of various units. The third age mod has done a great job but even they could not make all units such as eagles etc. Yes, Rohan [who would be my first choice] would be limited in selection, but you can always choose another more diverse faction if you wish. But how less divers are they than a typical historical tw game? How many men factions have a womrtounge, a saurman, a gandalf, flying giant eagles, and dwarves and elves interacting with them?

    the units would be standard anglo Saxon units plus calvary, like spearmen, swordsmen, horse archers, calvary, general body guards, kings guards, peasants, generals etc but it is no less diverse than any normal human faction. And to me I am ok with that, I love rohan [who also vary in units from each district] and they would be my top choice.
    jamreal18 said:

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.
    Do you know Third Age Mod?
    How about Rise of Mordor Mod?
    How about Last Alliance?

    So can you tell all those modders that LotR is poorly balanced for TW?
    1. I don't care about some mod.
    2. The fact that you believe having half the factions with quite tedious standard army make ups against the infinitely more interesting evil factions is ok.. and why not play a different faction (an evil faction?)
    3. You've not said anything that will make the human factions more interesting. The weight of the book series was to show the struggle of man against terrible unachievable odds.

    Unless they totally make up new good factions, this will be an unbalanced game.

    The reference to the mod was to show just how much variation is available if one is willing to accept it. The fact you claim half the factions are men shows how little you know.


    You misunderstand Tolkien on so many levels I am unsure of where to start. even if the ring had not been destroyed let's say it was hidden. After minis Tirith Sauron would be boxed in Mordor, dol guldor destroyed after failed attempts on Lorien, and the Easterlings dispersed in the north after the siege of Erebor. Nowhere is it a struggle of men, but of free peoples vs sauron. Elves, dwarves, ents, eagles, hobbits, dead armies etc and more played a role aginst him.


    I know it is hard for anyone to see how they could disagree with ourselves, but to me I would if i had the choice, be a free peoples faction 90% of the time. I would rather fight for the side i love than what represents evil to me, the shadow. I would love to be the rohhirm [who are as diverse as 99.9% of all tw factions ever made] and fight aginst those evil monsters. I would love to have a chance of allying with galadriel or elrond in battle aginst the balrog in moria. To fight along side or recruit treebeard and the ents to wipe out the wizard saruman. To combine with dwraves, men and elves in an assault on dol guldor. To receive the aid of giant eagles and a great wandering wizard as i repel nazgul from my lands. to befriend argaorn and team up with his summoned army of the dead to retake the lost city of gondor. To retreat to my fortress of helms deep when needed.

    I see far more divserity in playing this "man" faction then 99.9% of any tw game made. Both in who i fight aginst, and who i fight beside. if you don't think it is diverse enough, play as elves, or dwarves, or an evil faction. Or, don't buy the game or wait for a mod or exspansion on the first two ages that would unlock far more diversity. Because for everyone like you who don't like the free peoples, there are some like me who would much rather play as a free peoples nation.





    You write a lot but say little -

    Rohan - horse lord faction, similar to your average ToB faction.

    Gondor - heavy infantry faction, with light infantry scouts.

    These 2 are the main factions of men but will not translate to TW

    What exciting units do the Dwarfs have?

    What exciting units do the Elves have?

    Don’t talk fluff just give hard facts. I’m saying the good units have little diversity and repeating Eagles and Ents isn’t going to change this. You’re suggesting the only way you can change this is to combine the good army into one huge mess?

    This is a fact - the good armies are not diverse and will not stack against WHTW, at best we could get s Saga game out of it.

    Let’s see your unit list prove me wrong.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?654-Third-Age-Total-War
    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?1154-Sub-Mods&s=587d0dfc684efd91f8648315423e1bc0

    The above links to mods already created will show you the dozens of factions and hundreds of units on the free people's side alone. That is why we tried to get you to look them up to cure your lack of knowledge on the subject you post about.


    what you have done is created middle earth that lacks diversity because it is created in your mind only. You then are unwilling to accept the real world of Tolkiens that is very diverse so you can then claim it is not and thus, would be a bad idea. why? only you can tell us. But here is an idea, if you think the free peoples are not as diverse as you would like, play as the shadow factions or don't play at all. Warhammer i am told is more diverse than lotr, yet I would never play Warhammer because I have no interest in it. no one would like every tw game ever made.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?

    and why should we take seriously your claims and objections when you understand so little of Tolkien's world? we do not suggest ca make a game based on your lack of knowledge of middle-earth but on Tolkien's creation.
    I asked for an army list for at least Rohan and Gondor, I assume you didn't give them because you know how limited they are.

    Again, I have no interest in mods, they can make it up as they go a long and I suspect there are some real BS units in there.

    CA have never done an 'all era' game as it wouldn't work. If people see a LoTR licence they will expect to see the version they are familiar with.

    Now.. let's see this diverse list you're picturing..

    So in other words shut your eyes cover your ears you refuse to read links to mods that have the units you ask for [and even they are not all that could be] . I think you have shown us just where you are coming from. You create middle earth in your mins without much diversity and refuse to accept Tolkiens world. So i will agree with you, the world you say is middle earth is not diverse, but i ask for tolkiens middle earth not yours. so as i said before


    what you have done is created middle earth that lacks diversity because it is created in your mind only. You then are unwilling to accept the real world of Tolkiens that is very diverse so you can then claim it is not and thus, would be a bad idea. why? only you can tell us.



    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?

    and why should we take seriously your claims and objections when you understand so little of Tolkien's world? we do not suggest ca make a game based on your lack of knowledge of middle-earth but on Tolkien's creation.

    Yes, because that's what CA does, they are famous for copying straight mods.. not quite.

    I don't care about a mod because it is for free and they can do what they like, they don't have to worry about sales, making money, keeping the license owner happy.. a link to a mod is irrelevant and cannot be judged against a AAA game. So yes, I am ignoring a mod, it's of no interest to the reality of an actual game.

    Second, please stop giving me that BS of not understanding the world, I understand it enough to know how it works and how it relates to a TW game. I know the human (most popular) factions are limited and will be a disappointment for players. I know that's a fact.. know how? You refuse to give me your exciting unit list for the good guys.. beyond giant birds and Ents.. that will look suspiciously like the basic units of the WE roster.

    I'll ask for the last time.. let's see your highly diverse unit list for the human factions.. or elf, dwarf factions if you like and see how they stand up to WHTW. If you don't manage it this time I'm assuming you're full of.. you know what.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,313
    jamreal18 said:

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.

    So then your lack of diversity does not apply to total factions but units, and not on all factions just the free peoples factions. As I said before you show evidence of only having seen the movies. I have taken notes through my readings and have come up with hundreds of various units. The third age mod has done a great job but even they could not make all units such as eagles etc. Yes, Rohan [who would be my first choice] would be limited in selection, but you can always choose another more diverse faction if you wish. But how less divers are they than a typical historical tw game? How many men factions have a womrtounge, a saurman, a gandalf, flying giant eagles, and dwarves and elves interacting with them?

    the units would be standard anglo Saxon units plus calvary, like spearmen, swordsmen, horse archers, calvary, general body guards, kings guards, peasants, generals etc but it is no less diverse than any normal human faction. And to me I am ok with that, I love rohan [who also vary in units from each district] and they would be my top choice.
    jamreal18 said:

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.
    Do you know Third Age Mod?
    How about Rise of Mordor Mod?
    How about Last Alliance?

    So can you tell all those modders that LotR is poorly balanced for TW?
    1. I don't care about some mod.
    2. The fact that you believe having half the factions with quite tedious standard army make ups against the infinitely more interesting evil factions is ok.. and why not play a different faction (an evil faction?)
    3. You've not said anything that will make the human factions more interesting. The weight of the book series was to show the struggle of man against terrible unachievable odds.

    Unless they totally make up new good factions, this will be an unbalanced game.

    The reference to the mod was to show just how much variation is available if one is willing to accept it. The fact you claim half the factions are men shows how little you know.


    You misunderstand Tolkien on so many levels I am unsure of where to start. even if the ring had not been destroyed let's say it was hidden. After minis Tirith Sauron would be boxed in Mordor, dol guldor destroyed after failed attempts on Lorien, and the Easterlings dispersed in the north after the siege of Erebor. Nowhere is it a struggle of men, but of free peoples vs sauron. Elves, dwarves, ents, eagles, hobbits, dead armies etc and more played a role aginst him.


    I know it is hard for anyone to see how they could disagree with ourselves, but to me I would if i had the choice, be a free peoples faction 90% of the time. I would rather fight for the side i love than what represents evil to me, the shadow. I would love to be the rohhirm [who are as diverse as 99.9% of all tw factions ever made] and fight aginst those evil monsters. I would love to have a chance of allying with galadriel or elrond in battle aginst the balrog in moria. To fight along side or recruit treebeard and the ents to wipe out the wizard saruman. To combine with dwraves, men and elves in an assault on dol guldor. To receive the aid of giant eagles and a great wandering wizard as i repel nazgul from my lands. to befriend argaorn and team up with his summoned army of the dead to retake the lost city of gondor. To retreat to my fortress of helms deep when needed.

    I see far more divserity in playing this "man" faction then 99.9% of any tw game made. Both in who i fight aginst, and who i fight beside. if you don't think it is diverse enough, play as elves, or dwarves, or an evil faction. Or, don't buy the game or wait for a mod or exspansion on the first two ages that would unlock far more diversity. Because for everyone like you who don't like the free peoples, there are some like me who would much rather play as a free peoples nation.





    You write a lot but say little -

    Rohan - horse lord faction, similar to your average ToB faction.

    Gondor - heavy infantry faction, with light infantry scouts.

    These 2 are the main factions of men but will not translate to TW

    What exciting units do the Dwarfs have?

    What exciting units do the Elves have?

    Don’t talk fluff just give hard facts. I’m saying the good units have little diversity and repeating Eagles and Ents isn’t going to change this. You’re suggesting the only way you can change this is to combine the good army into one huge mess?

    This is a fact - the good armies are not diverse and will not stack against WHTW, at best we could get s Saga game out of it.

    Let’s see your unit list prove me wrong.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?654-Third-Age-Total-War
    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?1154-Sub-Mods&s=587d0dfc684efd91f8648315423e1bc0

    The above links to mods already created will show you the dozens of factions and hundreds of units on the free people's side alone. That is why we tried to get you to look them up to cure your lack of knowledge on the subject you post about.


    what you have done is created middle earth that lacks diversity because it is created in your mind only. You then are unwilling to accept the real world of Tolkiens that is very diverse so you can then claim it is not and thus, would be a bad idea. why? only you can tell us. But here is an idea, if you think the free peoples are not as diverse as you would like, play as the shadow factions or don't play at all. Warhammer i am told is more diverse than lotr, yet I would never play Warhammer because I have no interest in it. no one would like every tw game ever made.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?

    and why should we take seriously your claims and objections when you understand so little of Tolkien's world? we do not suggest ca make a game based on your lack of knowledge of middle-earth but on Tolkien's creation.
    I asked for an army list for at least Rohan and Gondor, I assume you didn't give them because you know how limited they are.

    Again, I have no interest in mods, they can make it up as they go a long and I suspect there are some real BS units in there.

    CA have never done an 'all era' game as it wouldn't work. If people see a LoTR licence they will expect to see the version they are familiar with.

    Now.. let's see this diverse list you're picturing..
    How about Troy? Don't you like what CA has done to their unit roster?

    If you do, why wouldn't it work on LOTR?

    ------------
    May I ask what era do you want for total war and can you please lay-out your expected unit roster for each playable faction?

    Now.. let's see this diverse list you're picturing..
    If LotRs has the same unit diversity as Troy I would laugh my ass off and watch as it fails.. This is why LotRs would be a saga at best.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,313
    I just checked the mod and as I suspected.. Gondor is a ToB army with slightly fancy armour.. you guys...
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,518

    jamreal18 said:

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.

    So then your lack of diversity does not apply to total factions but units, and not on all factions just the free peoples factions. As I said before you show evidence of only having seen the movies. I have taken notes through my readings and have come up with hundreds of various units. The third age mod has done a great job but even they could not make all units such as eagles etc. Yes, Rohan [who would be my first choice] would be limited in selection, but you can always choose another more diverse faction if you wish. But how less divers are they than a typical historical tw game? How many men factions have a womrtounge, a saurman, a gandalf, flying giant eagles, and dwarves and elves interacting with them?

    the units would be standard anglo Saxon units plus calvary, like spearmen, swordsmen, horse archers, calvary, general body guards, kings guards, peasants, generals etc but it is no less diverse than any normal human faction. And to me I am ok with that, I love rohan [who also vary in units from each district] and they would be my top choice.
    jamreal18 said:

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.
    Do you know Third Age Mod?
    How about Rise of Mordor Mod?
    How about Last Alliance?

    So can you tell all those modders that LotR is poorly balanced for TW?
    1. I don't care about some mod.
    2. The fact that you believe having half the factions with quite tedious standard army make ups against the infinitely more interesting evil factions is ok.. and why not play a different faction (an evil faction?)
    3. You've not said anything that will make the human factions more interesting. The weight of the book series was to show the struggle of man against terrible unachievable odds.

    Unless they totally make up new good factions, this will be an unbalanced game.

    The reference to the mod was to show just how much variation is available if one is willing to accept it. The fact you claim half the factions are men shows how little you know.


    You misunderstand Tolkien on so many levels I am unsure of where to start. even if the ring had not been destroyed let's say it was hidden. After minis Tirith Sauron would be boxed in Mordor, dol guldor destroyed after failed attempts on Lorien, and the Easterlings dispersed in the north after the siege of Erebor. Nowhere is it a struggle of men, but of free peoples vs sauron. Elves, dwarves, ents, eagles, hobbits, dead armies etc and more played a role aginst him.


    I know it is hard for anyone to see how they could disagree with ourselves, but to me I would if i had the choice, be a free peoples faction 90% of the time. I would rather fight for the side i love than what represents evil to me, the shadow. I would love to be the rohhirm [who are as diverse as 99.9% of all tw factions ever made] and fight aginst those evil monsters. I would love to have a chance of allying with galadriel or elrond in battle aginst the balrog in moria. To fight along side or recruit treebeard and the ents to wipe out the wizard saruman. To combine with dwraves, men and elves in an assault on dol guldor. To receive the aid of giant eagles and a great wandering wizard as i repel nazgul from my lands. to befriend argaorn and team up with his summoned army of the dead to retake the lost city of gondor. To retreat to my fortress of helms deep when needed.

    I see far more divserity in playing this "man" faction then 99.9% of any tw game made. Both in who i fight aginst, and who i fight beside. if you don't think it is diverse enough, play as elves, or dwarves, or an evil faction. Or, don't buy the game or wait for a mod or exspansion on the first two ages that would unlock far more diversity. Because for everyone like you who don't like the free peoples, there are some like me who would much rather play as a free peoples nation.





    You write a lot but say little -

    Rohan - horse lord faction, similar to your average ToB faction.

    Gondor - heavy infantry faction, with light infantry scouts.

    These 2 are the main factions of men but will not translate to TW

    What exciting units do the Dwarfs have?

    What exciting units do the Elves have?

    Don’t talk fluff just give hard facts. I’m saying the good units have little diversity and repeating Eagles and Ents isn’t going to change this. You’re suggesting the only way you can change this is to combine the good army into one huge mess?

    This is a fact - the good armies are not diverse and will not stack against WHTW, at best we could get s Saga game out of it.

    Let’s see your unit list prove me wrong.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?654-Third-Age-Total-War
    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?1154-Sub-Mods&s=587d0dfc684efd91f8648315423e1bc0

    The above links to mods already created will show you the dozens of factions and hundreds of units on the free people's side alone. That is why we tried to get you to look them up to cure your lack of knowledge on the subject you post about.


    what you have done is created middle earth that lacks diversity because it is created in your mind only. You then are unwilling to accept the real world of Tolkiens that is very diverse so you can then claim it is not and thus, would be a bad idea. why? only you can tell us. But here is an idea, if you think the free peoples are not as diverse as you would like, play as the shadow factions or don't play at all. Warhammer i am told is more diverse than lotr, yet I would never play Warhammer because I have no interest in it. no one would like every tw game ever made.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?

    and why should we take seriously your claims and objections when you understand so little of Tolkien's world? we do not suggest ca make a game based on your lack of knowledge of middle-earth but on Tolkien's creation.
    I asked for an army list for at least Rohan and Gondor, I assume you didn't give them because you know how limited they are.

    Again, I have no interest in mods, they can make it up as they go a long and I suspect there are some real BS units in there.

    CA have never done an 'all era' game as it wouldn't work. If people see a LoTR licence they will expect to see the version they are familiar with.

    Now.. let's see this diverse list you're picturing..
    How about Troy? Don't you like what CA has done to their unit roster?

    If you do, why wouldn't it work on LOTR?

    ------------
    May I ask what era do you want for total war and can you please lay-out your expected unit roster for each playable faction?

    Now.. let's see this diverse list you're picturing..
    If LotRs has the same unit diversity as Troy I would laugh my ass off and watch as it fails.. This is why LotRs would be a saga at best.
    So what is your ideal unit roster for your ideal game?

    Can you please lay it out so we would be enlightened by your ideal roster?
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,313
    jamreal18 said:

    jamreal18 said:

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.

    So then your lack of diversity does not apply to total factions but units, and not on all factions just the free peoples factions. As I said before you show evidence of only having seen the movies. I have taken notes through my readings and have come up with hundreds of various units. The third age mod has done a great job but even they could not make all units such as eagles etc. Yes, Rohan [who would be my first choice] would be limited in selection, but you can always choose another more diverse faction if you wish. But how less divers are they than a typical historical tw game? How many men factions have a womrtounge, a saurman, a gandalf, flying giant eagles, and dwarves and elves interacting with them?

    the units would be standard anglo Saxon units plus calvary, like spearmen, swordsmen, horse archers, calvary, general body guards, kings guards, peasants, generals etc but it is no less diverse than any normal human faction. And to me I am ok with that, I love rohan [who also vary in units from each district] and they would be my top choice.
    jamreal18 said:

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.
    Do you know Third Age Mod?
    How about Rise of Mordor Mod?
    How about Last Alliance?

    So can you tell all those modders that LotR is poorly balanced for TW?
    1. I don't care about some mod.
    2. The fact that you believe having half the factions with quite tedious standard army make ups against the infinitely more interesting evil factions is ok.. and why not play a different faction (an evil faction?)
    3. You've not said anything that will make the human factions more interesting. The weight of the book series was to show the struggle of man against terrible unachievable odds.

    Unless they totally make up new good factions, this will be an unbalanced game.

    The reference to the mod was to show just how much variation is available if one is willing to accept it. The fact you claim half the factions are men shows how little you know.


    You misunderstand Tolkien on so many levels I am unsure of where to start. even if the ring had not been destroyed let's say it was hidden. After minis Tirith Sauron would be boxed in Mordor, dol guldor destroyed after failed attempts on Lorien, and the Easterlings dispersed in the north after the siege of Erebor. Nowhere is it a struggle of men, but of free peoples vs sauron. Elves, dwarves, ents, eagles, hobbits, dead armies etc and more played a role aginst him.


    I know it is hard for anyone to see how they could disagree with ourselves, but to me I would if i had the choice, be a free peoples faction 90% of the time. I would rather fight for the side i love than what represents evil to me, the shadow. I would love to be the rohhirm [who are as diverse as 99.9% of all tw factions ever made] and fight aginst those evil monsters. I would love to have a chance of allying with galadriel or elrond in battle aginst the balrog in moria. To fight along side or recruit treebeard and the ents to wipe out the wizard saruman. To combine with dwraves, men and elves in an assault on dol guldor. To receive the aid of giant eagles and a great wandering wizard as i repel nazgul from my lands. to befriend argaorn and team up with his summoned army of the dead to retake the lost city of gondor. To retreat to my fortress of helms deep when needed.

    I see far more divserity in playing this "man" faction then 99.9% of any tw game made. Both in who i fight aginst, and who i fight beside. if you don't think it is diverse enough, play as elves, or dwarves, or an evil faction. Or, don't buy the game or wait for a mod or exspansion on the first two ages that would unlock far more diversity. Because for everyone like you who don't like the free peoples, there are some like me who would much rather play as a free peoples nation.





    You write a lot but say little -

    Rohan - horse lord faction, similar to your average ToB faction.

    Gondor - heavy infantry faction, with light infantry scouts.

    These 2 are the main factions of men but will not translate to TW

    What exciting units do the Dwarfs have?

    What exciting units do the Elves have?

    Don’t talk fluff just give hard facts. I’m saying the good units have little diversity and repeating Eagles and Ents isn’t going to change this. You’re suggesting the only way you can change this is to combine the good army into one huge mess?

    This is a fact - the good armies are not diverse and will not stack against WHTW, at best we could get s Saga game out of it.

    Let’s see your unit list prove me wrong.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?654-Third-Age-Total-War
    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?1154-Sub-Mods&s=587d0dfc684efd91f8648315423e1bc0

    The above links to mods already created will show you the dozens of factions and hundreds of units on the free people's side alone. That is why we tried to get you to look them up to cure your lack of knowledge on the subject you post about.


    what you have done is created middle earth that lacks diversity because it is created in your mind only. You then are unwilling to accept the real world of Tolkiens that is very diverse so you can then claim it is not and thus, would be a bad idea. why? only you can tell us. But here is an idea, if you think the free peoples are not as diverse as you would like, play as the shadow factions or don't play at all. Warhammer i am told is more diverse than lotr, yet I would never play Warhammer because I have no interest in it. no one would like every tw game ever made.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?

    and why should we take seriously your claims and objections when you understand so little of Tolkien's world? we do not suggest ca make a game based on your lack of knowledge of middle-earth but on Tolkien's creation.
    I asked for an army list for at least Rohan and Gondor, I assume you didn't give them because you know how limited they are.

    Again, I have no interest in mods, they can make it up as they go a long and I suspect there are some real BS units in there.

    CA have never done an 'all era' game as it wouldn't work. If people see a LoTR licence they will expect to see the version they are familiar with.

    Now.. let's see this diverse list you're picturing..
    How about Troy? Don't you like what CA has done to their unit roster?

    If you do, why wouldn't it work on LOTR?

    ------------
    May I ask what era do you want for total war and can you please lay-out your expected unit roster for each playable faction?

    Now.. let's see this diverse list you're picturing..
    If LotRs has the same unit diversity as Troy I would laugh my ass off and watch as it fails.. This is why LotRs would be a saga at best.
    So what is your ideal unit roster for your ideal game?

    Can you please lay it out so we would be enlightened by your ideal roster?
    Look at the WH races and build up from there. A fantasy games advantage is a more diverse roster, as we can see from the Gondor Roster.. that isn't the case here.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 211

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.

    So then your lack of diversity does not apply to total factions but units, and not on all factions just the free peoples factions. As I said before you show evidence of only having seen the movies. I have taken notes through my readings and have come up with hundreds of various units. The third age mod has done a great job but even they could not make all units such as eagles etc. Yes, Rohan [who would be my first choice] would be limited in selection, but you can always choose another more diverse faction if you wish. But how less divers are they than a typical historical tw game? How many men factions have a womrtounge, a saurman, a gandalf, flying giant eagles, and dwarves and elves interacting with them?

    the units would be standard anglo Saxon units plus calvary, like spearmen, swordsmen, horse archers, calvary, general body guards, kings guards, peasants, generals etc but it is no less diverse than any normal human faction. And to me I am ok with that, I love rohan [who also vary in units from each district] and they would be my top choice.
    jamreal18 said:

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.
    Do you know Third Age Mod?
    How about Rise of Mordor Mod?
    How about Last Alliance?

    So can you tell all those modders that LotR is poorly balanced for TW?
    1. I don't care about some mod.
    2. The fact that you believe having half the factions with quite tedious standard army make ups against the infinitely more interesting evil factions is ok.. and why not play a different faction (an evil faction?)
    3. You've not said anything that will make the human factions more interesting. The weight of the book series was to show the struggle of man against terrible unachievable odds.

    Unless they totally make up new good factions, this will be an unbalanced game.

    The reference to the mod was to show just how much variation is available if one is willing to accept it. The fact you claim half the factions are men shows how little you know.


    You misunderstand Tolkien on so many levels I am unsure of where to start. even if the ring had not been destroyed let's say it was hidden. After minis Tirith Sauron would be boxed in Mordor, dol guldor destroyed after failed attempts on Lorien, and the Easterlings dispersed in the north after the siege of Erebor. Nowhere is it a struggle of men, but of free peoples vs sauron. Elves, dwarves, ents, eagles, hobbits, dead armies etc and more played a role aginst him.


    I know it is hard for anyone to see how they could disagree with ourselves, but to me I would if i had the choice, be a free peoples faction 90% of the time. I would rather fight for the side i love than what represents evil to me, the shadow. I would love to be the rohhirm [who are as diverse as 99.9% of all tw factions ever made] and fight aginst those evil monsters. I would love to have a chance of allying with galadriel or elrond in battle aginst the balrog in moria. To fight along side or recruit treebeard and the ents to wipe out the wizard saruman. To combine with dwraves, men and elves in an assault on dol guldor. To receive the aid of giant eagles and a great wandering wizard as i repel nazgul from my lands. to befriend argaorn and team up with his summoned army of the dead to retake the lost city of gondor. To retreat to my fortress of helms deep when needed.

    I see far more divserity in playing this "man" faction then 99.9% of any tw game made. Both in who i fight aginst, and who i fight beside. if you don't think it is diverse enough, play as elves, or dwarves, or an evil faction. Or, don't buy the game or wait for a mod or exspansion on the first two ages that would unlock far more diversity. Because for everyone like you who don't like the free peoples, there are some like me who would much rather play as a free peoples nation.





    You write a lot but say little -

    Rohan - horse lord faction, similar to your average ToB faction.

    Gondor - heavy infantry faction, with light infantry scouts.

    These 2 are the main factions of men but will not translate to TW

    What exciting units do the Dwarfs have?

    What exciting units do the Elves have?

    Don’t talk fluff just give hard facts. I’m saying the good units have little diversity and repeating Eagles and Ents isn’t going to change this. You’re suggesting the only way you can change this is to combine the good army into one huge mess?

    This is a fact - the good armies are not diverse and will not stack against WHTW, at best we could get s Saga game out of it.

    Let’s see your unit list prove me wrong.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?654-Third-Age-Total-War
    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?1154-Sub-Mods&s=587d0dfc684efd91f8648315423e1bc0

    The above links to mods already created will show you the dozens of factions and hundreds of units on the free people's side alone. That is why we tried to get you to look them up to cure your lack of knowledge on the subject you post about.


    what you have done is created middle earth that lacks diversity because it is created in your mind only. You then are unwilling to accept the real world of Tolkiens that is very diverse so you can then claim it is not and thus, would be a bad idea. why? only you can tell us. But here is an idea, if you think the free peoples are not as diverse as you would like, play as the shadow factions or don't play at all. Warhammer i am told is more diverse than lotr, yet I would never play Warhammer because I have no interest in it. no one would like every tw game ever made.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?

    and why should we take seriously your claims and objections when you understand so little of Tolkien's world? we do not suggest ca make a game based on your lack of knowledge of middle-earth but on Tolkien's creation.
    I asked for an army list for at least Rohan and Gondor, I assume you didn't give them because you know how limited they are.

    Again, I have no interest in mods, they can make it up as they go a long and I suspect there are some real BS units in there.

    CA have never done an 'all era' game as it wouldn't work. If people see a LoTR licence they will expect to see the version they are familiar with.

    Now.. let's see this diverse list you're picturing..

    So in other words shut your eyes cover your ears you refuse to read links to mods that have the units you ask for [and even they are not all that could be] . I think you have shown us just where you are coming from. You create middle earth in your mins without much diversity and refuse to accept Tolkiens world. So i will agree with you, the world you say is middle earth is not diverse, but i ask for tolkiens middle earth not yours. so as i said before


    what you have done is created middle earth that lacks diversity because it is created in your mind only. You then are unwilling to accept the real world of Tolkiens that is very diverse so you can then claim it is not and thus, would be a bad idea. why? only you can tell us.



    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?

    and why should we take seriously your claims and objections when you understand so little of Tolkien's world? we do not suggest ca make a game based on your lack of knowledge of middle-earth but on Tolkien's creation.
    Yes, because that's what CA does, they are famous for copying straight mods.. not quite.

    I don't care about a mod because it is for free and they can do what they like, they don't have to worry about sales, making money, keeping the license owner happy.. a link to a mod is irrelevant and cannot be judged against a AAA game. So yes, I am ignoring a mod, it's of no interest to the reality of an actual game.

    Second, please stop giving me that BS of not understanding the world, I understand it enough to know how it works and how it relates to a TW game. I know the human (most popular) factions are limited and will be a disappointment for players. I know that's a fact.. know how? You refuse to give me your exciting unit list for the good guys.. beyond giant birds and Ents.. that will look suspiciously like the basic units of the WE roster.

    I'll ask for the last time.. let's see your highly diverse unit list for the human factions.. or elf, dwarf factions if you like and see how they stand up to WHTW. If you don't manage it this time I'm assuming you're full of.. you know what.

    Again you keep avoiding what is actually being said and twisting it to your own purposes while avoiding what you are unwilling to accept. I never said CA should make a mod, If Ca made Middle-earth it would be far better [and more units like flying ones etc] than third age. If you reject the topics of any and every mod ever made, ca would be left with almost nothing and certainly nothing popular since mods make what people desire generally that have not yet been done. You simply asked for units that could be used and I linked you to a mod that has hundreds. You did not like that because your own mind middle earth does not have variety and refuse to accapt Tolkiens world so you then change the subject.


    You show no sign of understanding Tolkiens world, only the world you create for yourself in your mind. That is why you make these poor claims time and again. So of course you think them limited, you think they only have 5 factions in the game and 4 units for rohan. if your middle earth were true it would be limited. I have no idea how many times I must clarify but I am not interested in your middle-earth, I don't think ca should make your middle earth, I think ca should make Tolkiens middle-earth.



    Hundreds of units listed on the mod, quick shut your eyes, cover your ears and change the subject, say your not interested in a mod.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?654-Third-Age-Total-War
    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?1154-Sub-Mods&s=587d0dfc684efd91f8648315423e1bc0



    Ill ask you, since you refuse to see the lists of hundreds of unit. please show me the human factions that are diverse enough for you to make a tw game profitable. than we can compare. show me these human factions variety from previous tw games and we can compare to middle earth.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?

    and why should we take seriously your claims and objections when you understand so little of Tolkien's world? we do not suggest ca make a game based on your lack of knowledge of middle-earth but on Tolkien's creation.
  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,999
    edited December 2020
    jamreal18 said:

    @davedave1124 have you seen any of the 3 mods I mentioned?

    What is your opinion about BFME 2?

    What do you want to say to those who play Third Age Mod?

    Warlocke said:

    It’s very similar to WH with less variety and is a more expensive license.

    So what if it less varied than Warhammer? Do LotR fans complain?

    More expensive? Do you know the exact amount? People also said before that WH rights was expensive. I believe the rights for games is cheaper than the rights for tv/movie productions.

    So which fantasy game will be made into total war in your opinion?
    The problem isn’t that LotR is less varied. The problem is that it is simultaneously less varied and very similar to the games CA will have been working on for so many years. To me that makes it seem like a less desirable project to work on.

    There might have been a time where the WH rights were expensive, but these days GW will sell it out to anyone. Look at how many WH / WH40k games are on Steam that were produced by small studios. WH is pretty clearly not a particularly hard license to acquire.

    If I had to make a guess, I would say that after TWWH3 CA won’t go out looking for a new license but will instead make their own. Maybe a full on mythology game, with gods heroes and monsters from cultures all over the world.

    That’s what I would do, at least.
    ò_ó
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,313

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.

    So then your lack of diversity does not apply to total factions but units, and not on all factions just the free peoples factions. As I said before you show evidence of only having seen the movies. I have taken notes through my readings and have come up with hundreds of various units. The third age mod has done a great job but even they could not make all units such as eagles etc. Yes, Rohan [who would be my first choice] would be limited in selection, but you can always choose another more diverse faction if you wish. But how less divers are they than a typical historical tw game? How many men factions have a womrtounge, a saurman, a gandalf, flying giant eagles, and dwarves and elves interacting with them?

    the units would be standard anglo Saxon units plus calvary, like spearmen, swordsmen, horse archers, calvary, general body guards, kings guards, peasants, generals etc but it is no less diverse than any normal human faction. And to me I am ok with that, I love rohan [who also vary in units from each district] and they would be my top choice.
    jamreal18 said:

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.
    Do you know Third Age Mod?
    How about Rise of Mordor Mod?
    How about Last Alliance?

    So can you tell all those modders that LotR is poorly balanced for TW?
    1. I don't care about some mod.
    2. The fact that you believe having half the factions with quite tedious standard army make ups against the infinitely more interesting evil factions is ok.. and why not play a different faction (an evil faction?)
    3. You've not said anything that will make the human factions more interesting. The weight of the book series was to show the struggle of man against terrible unachievable odds.

    Unless they totally make up new good factions, this will be an unbalanced game.

    The reference to the mod was to show just how much variation is available if one is willing to accept it. The fact you claim half the factions are men shows how little you know.


    You misunderstand Tolkien on so many levels I am unsure of where to start. even if the ring had not been destroyed let's say it was hidden. After minis Tirith Sauron would be boxed in Mordor, dol guldor destroyed after failed attempts on Lorien, and the Easterlings dispersed in the north after the siege of Erebor. Nowhere is it a struggle of men, but of free peoples vs sauron. Elves, dwarves, ents, eagles, hobbits, dead armies etc and more played a role aginst him.


    I know it is hard for anyone to see how they could disagree with ourselves, but to me I would if i had the choice, be a free peoples faction 90% of the time. I would rather fight for the side i love than what represents evil to me, the shadow. I would love to be the rohhirm [who are as diverse as 99.9% of all tw factions ever made] and fight aginst those evil monsters. I would love to have a chance of allying with galadriel or elrond in battle aginst the balrog in moria. To fight along side or recruit treebeard and the ents to wipe out the wizard saruman. To combine with dwraves, men and elves in an assault on dol guldor. To receive the aid of giant eagles and a great wandering wizard as i repel nazgul from my lands. to befriend argaorn and team up with his summoned army of the dead to retake the lost city of gondor. To retreat to my fortress of helms deep when needed.

    I see far more divserity in playing this "man" faction then 99.9% of any tw game made. Both in who i fight aginst, and who i fight beside. if you don't think it is diverse enough, play as elves, or dwarves, or an evil faction. Or, don't buy the game or wait for a mod or exspansion on the first two ages that would unlock far more diversity. Because for everyone like you who don't like the free peoples, there are some like me who would much rather play as a free peoples nation.





    You write a lot but say little -

    Rohan - horse lord faction, similar to your average ToB faction.

    Gondor - heavy infantry faction, with light infantry scouts.

    These 2 are the main factions of men but will not translate to TW

    What exciting units do the Dwarfs have?

    What exciting units do the Elves have?

    Don’t talk fluff just give hard facts. I’m saying the good units have little diversity and repeating Eagles and Ents isn’t going to change this. You’re suggesting the only way you can change this is to combine the good army into one huge mess?

    This is a fact - the good armies are not diverse and will not stack against WHTW, at best we could get s Saga game out of it.

    Let’s see your unit list prove me wrong.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?654-Third-Age-Total-War
    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?1154-Sub-Mods&s=587d0dfc684efd91f8648315423e1bc0

    The above links to mods already created will show you the dozens of factions and hundreds of units on the free people's side alone. That is why we tried to get you to look them up to cure your lack of knowledge on the subject you post about.


    what you have done is created middle earth that lacks diversity because it is created in your mind only. You then are unwilling to accept the real world of Tolkiens that is very diverse so you can then claim it is not and thus, would be a bad idea. why? only you can tell us. But here is an idea, if you think the free peoples are not as diverse as you would like, play as the shadow factions or don't play at all. Warhammer i am told is more diverse than lotr, yet I would never play Warhammer because I have no interest in it. no one would like every tw game ever made.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?

    and why should we take seriously your claims and objections when you understand so little of Tolkien's world? we do not suggest ca make a game based on your lack of knowledge of middle-earth but on Tolkien's creation.
    I asked for an army list for at least Rohan and Gondor, I assume you didn't give them because you know how limited they are.

    Again, I have no interest in mods, they can make it up as they go a long and I suspect there are some real BS units in there.

    CA have never done an 'all era' game as it wouldn't work. If people see a LoTR licence they will expect to see the version they are familiar with.

    Now.. let's see this diverse list you're picturing..

    So in other words shut your eyes cover your ears you refuse to read links to mods that have the units you ask for [and even they are not all that could be] . I think you have shown us just where you are coming from. You create middle earth in your mins without much diversity and refuse to accept Tolkiens world. So i will agree with you, the world you say is middle earth is not diverse, but i ask for tolkiens middle earth not yours. so as i said before


    what you have done is created middle earth that lacks diversity because it is created in your mind only. You then are unwilling to accept the real world of Tolkiens that is very diverse so you can then claim it is not and thus, would be a bad idea. why? only you can tell us.



    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?

    and why should we take seriously your claims and objections when you understand so little of Tolkien's world? we do not suggest ca make a game based on your lack of knowledge of middle-earth but on Tolkien's creation.
    Yes, because that's what CA does, they are famous for copying straight mods.. not quite.

    I don't care about a mod because it is for free and they can do what they like, they don't have to worry about sales, making money, keeping the license owner happy.. a link to a mod is irrelevant and cannot be judged against a AAA game. So yes, I am ignoring a mod, it's of no interest to the reality of an actual game.

    Second, please stop giving me that BS of not understanding the world, I understand it enough to know how it works and how it relates to a TW game. I know the human (most popular) factions are limited and will be a disappointment for players. I know that's a fact.. know how? You refuse to give me your exciting unit list for the good guys.. beyond giant birds and Ents.. that will look suspiciously like the basic units of the WE roster.

    I'll ask for the last time.. let's see your highly diverse unit list for the human factions.. or elf, dwarf factions if you like and see how they stand up to WHTW. If you don't manage it this time I'm assuming you're full of.. you know what.
    Again you keep avoiding what is actually being said and twisting it to your own purposes while avoiding what you are unwilling to accept. I never said CA should make a mod, If Ca made Middle-earth it would be far better [and more units like flying ones etc] than third age. If you reject the topics of any and every mod ever made, ca would be left with almost nothing and certainly nothing popular since mods make what people desire generally that have not yet been done. You simply asked for units that could be used and I linked you to a mod that has hundreds. You did not like that because your own mind middle earth does not have variety and refuse to accapt Tolkiens world so you then change the subject.


    You show no sign of understanding Tolkiens world, only the world you create for yourself in your mind. That is why you make these poor claims time and again. So of course you think them limited, you think they only have 5 factions in the game and 4 units for rohan. if your middle earth were true it would be limited. I have no idea how many times I must clarify but I am not interested in your middle-earth, I don't think ca should make your middle earth, I think ca should make Tolkiens middle-earth.



    Hundreds of units listed on the mod, quick shut your eyes, cover your ears and change the subject, say your not interested in a mod.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?654-Third-Age-Total-War
    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?1154-Sub-Mods&s=587d0dfc684efd91f8648315423e1bc0



    Ill ask you, since you refuse to see the lists of hundreds of unit. please show me the human factions that are diverse enough for you to make a tw game profitable. than we can compare. show me these human factions variety from previous tw games and we can compare to middle earth.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?

    and why should we take seriously your claims and objections when you understand so little of Tolkien's world? we do not suggest ca make a game based on your lack of knowledge of middle-earth but on Tolkien's creation.

    It's not like they have an instant list of all the units. I'll tell you what. You grab a list of units from Gondor and any other human faction and let's all sit here amazed at 'hundreds of units for each of the most popular factions.

    I've seen the Gondor list and it's slightly different formal infantry and cavalry, in your mind I'm sure that would make a great game.. that's the reason the staff at CA have a popular game and you don't.

    My 'perceived' sense of a lack of diversity in the roster continues, because you still haven't offered a list for either a human faction, Dwarf faction or Elven faction.. I think we both know why.

    Come on.. share with us this fantastic diversity, so far on the good side you've given us Eagles and Ents.. anymore?
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 211
    edited December 2020

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.

    So then your lack of diversity does not apply to total factions but units, and not on all factions just the free peoples factions. As I said before you show evidence of only having seen the movies. I have taken notes through my readings and have come up with hundreds of various units. The third age mod has done a great job but even they could not make all units such as eagles etc. Yes, Rohan [who would be my first choice] would be limited in selection, but you can always choose another more diverse faction if you wish. But how less divers are they than a typical historical tw game? How many men factions have a womrtounge, a saurman, a gandalf, flying giant eagles, and dwarves and elves interacting with them?

    the units would be standard anglo Saxon units plus calvary, like spearmen, swordsmen, horse archers, calvary, general body guards, kings guards, peasants, generals etc but it is no less diverse than any normal human faction. And to me I am ok with that, I love rohan [who also vary in units from each district] and they would be my top choice.
    jamreal18 said:

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.
    Do you know Third Age Mod?
    How about Rise of Mordor Mod?
    How about Last Alliance?

    So can you tell all those modders that LotR is poorly balanced for TW?
    1. I don't care about some mod.
    2. The fact that you believe having half the factions with quite tedious standard army make ups against the infinitely more interesting evil factions is ok.. and why not play a different faction (an evil faction?)
    3. You've not said anything that will make the human factions more interesting. The weight of the book series was to show the struggle of man against terrible unachievable odds.

    Unless they totally make up new good factions, this will be an unbalanced game.

    The reference to the mod was to show just how much variation is available if one is willing to accept it. The fact you claim half the factions are men shows how little you know.


    You misunderstand Tolkien on so many levels I am unsure of where to start. even if the ring had not been destroyed let's say it was hidden. After minis Tirith Sauron would be boxed in Mordor, dol guldor destroyed after failed attempts on Lorien, and the Easterlings dispersed in the north after the siege of Erebor. Nowhere is it a struggle of men, but of free peoples vs sauron. Elves, dwarves, ents, eagles, hobbits, dead armies etc and more played a role aginst him.


    I know it is hard for anyone to see how they could disagree with ourselves, but to me I would if i had the choice, be a free peoples faction 90% of the time. I would rather fight for the side i love than what represents evil to me, the shadow. I would love to be the rohhirm [who are as diverse as 99.9% of all tw factions ever made] and fight aginst those evil monsters. I would love to have a chance of allying with galadriel or elrond in battle aginst the balrog in moria. To fight along side or recruit treebeard and the ents to wipe out the wizard saruman. To combine with dwraves, men and elves in an assault on dol guldor. To receive the aid of giant eagles and a great wandering wizard as i repel nazgul from my lands. to befriend argaorn and team up with his summoned army of the dead to retake the lost city of gondor. To retreat to my fortress of helms deep when needed.

    I see far more divserity in playing this "man" faction then 99.9% of any tw game made. Both in who i fight aginst, and who i fight beside. if you don't think it is diverse enough, play as elves, or dwarves, or an evil faction. Or, don't buy the game or wait for a mod or exspansion on the first two ages that would unlock far more diversity. Because for everyone like you who don't like the free peoples, there are some like me who would much rather play as a free peoples nation.





    You write a lot but say little -

    Rohan - horse lord faction, similar to your average ToB faction.

    Gondor - heavy infantry faction, with light infantry scouts.

    These 2 are the main factions of men but will not translate to TW

    What exciting units do the Dwarfs have?

    What exciting units do the Elves have?

    Don’t talk fluff just give hard facts. I’m saying the good units have little diversity and repeating Eagles and Ents isn’t going to change this. You’re suggesting the only way you can change this is to combine the good army into one huge mess?

    This is a fact - the good armies are not diverse and will not stack against WHTW, at best we could get s Saga game out of it.

    Let’s see your unit list prove me wrong.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?654-Third-Age-Total-War
    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?1154-Sub-Mods&s=587d0dfc684efd91f8648315423e1bc0

    The above links to mods already created will show you the dozens of factions and hundreds of units on the free people's side alone. That is why we tried to get you to look them up to cure your lack of knowledge on the subject you post about.


    what you have done is created middle earth that lacks diversity because it is created in your mind only. You then are unwilling to accept the real world of Tolkiens that is very diverse so you can then claim it is not and thus, would be a bad idea. why? only you can tell us. But here is an idea, if you think the free peoples are not as diverse as you would like, play as the shadow factions or don't play at all. Warhammer i am told is more diverse than lotr, yet I would never play Warhammer because I have no interest in it. no one would like every tw game ever made.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?

    and why should we take seriously your claims and objections when you understand so little of Tolkien's world? we do not suggest ca make a game based on your lack of knowledge of middle-earth but on Tolkien's creation.
    I asked for an army list for at least Rohan and Gondor, I assume you didn't give them because you know how limited they are.

    Again, I have no interest in mods, they can make it up as they go a long and I suspect there are some real BS units in there.

    CA have never done an 'all era' game as it wouldn't work. If people see a LoTR licence they will expect to see the version they are familiar with.

    Now.. let's see this diverse list you're picturing..

    So in other words shut your eyes cover your ears you refuse to read links to mods that have the units you ask for [and even they are not all that could be] . I think you have shown us just where you are coming from. You create middle earth in your mins without much diversity and refuse to accept Tolkiens world. So i will agree with you, the world you say is middle earth is not diverse, but i ask for tolkiens middle earth not yours. so as i said before


    what you have done is created middle earth that lacks diversity because it is created in your mind only. You then are unwilling to accept the real world of Tolkiens that is very diverse so you can then claim it is not and thus, would be a bad idea. why? only you can tell us.



    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?

    and why should we take seriously your claims and objections when you understand so little of Tolkien's world? we do not suggest ca make a game based on your lack of knowledge of middle-earth but on Tolkien's creation.
    Yes, because that's what CA does, they are famous for copying straight mods.. not quite.

    I don't care about a mod because it is for free and they can do what they like, they don't have to worry about sales, making money, keeping the license owner happy.. a link to a mod is irrelevant and cannot be judged against a AAA game. So yes, I am ignoring a mod, it's of no interest to the reality of an actual game.

    Second, please stop giving me that BS of not understanding the world, I understand it enough to know how it works and how it relates to a TW game. I know the human (most popular) factions are limited and will be a disappointment for players. I know that's a fact.. know how? You refuse to give me your exciting unit list for the good guys.. beyond giant birds and Ents.. that will look suspiciously like the basic units of the WE roster.

    I'll ask for the last time.. let's see your highly diverse unit list for the human factions.. or elf, dwarf factions if you like and see how they stand up to WHTW. If you don't manage it this time I'm assuming you're full of.. you know what.
    Again you keep avoiding what is actually being said and twisting it to your own purposes while avoiding what you are unwilling to accept. I never said CA should make a mod, If Ca made Middle-earth it would be far better [and more units like flying ones etc] than third age. If you reject the topics of any and every mod ever made, ca would be left with almost nothing and certainly nothing popular since mods make what people desire generally that have not yet been done. You simply asked for units that could be used and I linked you to a mod that has hundreds. You did not like that because your own mind middle earth does not have variety and refuse to accapt Tolkiens world so you then change the subject.


    You show no sign of understanding Tolkiens world, only the world you create for yourself in your mind. That is why you make these poor claims time and again. So of course you think them limited, you think they only have 5 factions in the game and 4 units for rohan. if your middle earth were true it would be limited. I have no idea how many times I must clarify but I am not interested in your middle-earth, I don't think ca should make your middle earth, I think ca should make Tolkiens middle-earth.



    Hundreds of units listed on the mod, quick shut your eyes, cover your ears and change the subject, say your not interested in a mod.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?654-Third-Age-Total-War
    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?1154-Sub-Mods&s=587d0dfc684efd91f8648315423e1bc0



    Ill ask you, since you refuse to see the lists of hundreds of unit. please show me the human factions that are diverse enough for you to make a tw game profitable. than we can compare. show me these human factions variety from previous tw games and we can compare to middle earth.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?

    and why should we take seriously your claims and objections when you understand so little of Tolkien's world? we do not suggest ca make a game based on your lack of knowledge of middle-earth but on Tolkien's creation.
    It's not like they have an instant list of all the units. I'll tell you what. You grab a list of units from Gondor and any other human faction and let's all sit here amazed at 'hundreds of units for each of the most popular factions.

    I've seen the Gondor list and it's slightly different formal infantry and cavalry, in your mind I'm sure that would make a great game.. that's the reason the staff at CA have a popular game and you don't.

    My 'perceived' sense of a lack of diversity in the roster continues, because you still haven't offered a list for either a human faction, Dwarf faction or Elven faction.. I think we both know why.

    Come on.. share with us this fantastic diversity, so far on the good side you've given us Eagles and Ents.. anymore?


    Again you keep avoiding what is actually being said and twisting it to your own purposes while avoiding what you are unwilling to accept. I never said each faction had hundreds of units, I said there were more than 4 factions as you claimed and hundreds of units among the free peoples.



    So when I send a link, that is meant for you to open, you then can look at what I am trying to show you. We will try once more. List of units for Gondor, a bit more than you claim 21 and CA could do more. In fact, I could add many. I have taken notes through my readings for this reason.
    https://third-age-total-war.fandom.com/wiki/Factions

    Also not counted is how many man factions have Palantir they can use? how many have an army of the dead that can be mustered by the king of Gondor? how many have eagles that can be called to their aid or great wizards? or giant trees? how many fight aginst witch kings, mumakil, easterlings, tools, wargs, nazgul etc etc there is far more diversity in what you claim is a non diverse faction than in 99% of all factions TW has ever made.


    please show me the human factions that are diverse enough for you to make a tw game profitable. than we can compare. show me these human factions variety from previous tw games and we can compare to middle earth.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?


    You made a very interesting claim. you said "that's the reason the staff at CA have a popular game and you don't." so according to you lotr is not diverse enough, yet ca's other games that sell well are for that reason because they are more diverse. so let us start at the beginning and move along. here is unit roster for entire game, less units then gondor alone would have.

    https://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Units_in_Shogun:_Total_War.html

    so I want you to show me how many units are needed for a ca game for major factions. Show me your diverse units from the major factions. but remember, it must be a game ca makes money on. So show me medical tw, empire, rome 2, shogun 2 etc roster lists and show how/why lotr wont make money. you must also show that perceived lack of diversity in units will hurt sales. Therefore you must show unit rosters at original release unless you can prove low sales due to lack of diversity.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 211
    edited December 2020
    davedave1124

    Please help me test if your theory is true. Since Gondor a plain simple nondiverse faction in a mod that could not, and does not, include all of its units a middle-earth Tw could do, yet has more units than an entire Tw game. You will have to show me how many units the non diverse, yet major factions like a gondor need for ca to make money. Please go throw the previous TW games and connect/show where sales directly related to unit diversity and where the cutoff is. Than we can test and see if gondor or a middle earth can match that diversity so as to make money as you claim.

    then please make your case on why guys like me wont buy or enjoy playing as a faction like Gondor because it would end up with around only 25-30 units. Why is it not enough? why would I not enjoy the game due to this lack of units?
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,313
    You are painfully missing the point.

    If I was telling everyone how good a particular factions unit list was.. I'd at the very least - list it.

    You don't do that and instead give the unit list of Shogun TW which totally misses the point.

    My point is the human factions (the most popular) have the most basic of rosters, you've done nothing to disprove that.

    Make an argument - show us a list.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 211
    davedave1124

    One more question. Why is it that third age is consistently still the most popular mod of any tw mod ever made? it does not even have all the units a ca middle earth would and since Tolkien lacks diversity, why is this so? in fact diversity is our determining factor in sales, then why not let ca know of this hidden gnostic knowledge, and just tell them they only need to make allot of units and sales will follow, so only focus on "diversity" and they will make a best seller.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,313

    davedave1124

    One more question. Why is it that third age is consistently still the most popular mod of any tw mod ever made? it does not even have all the units a ca middle earth would and since Tolkien lacks diversity, why is this so? in fact diversity is our determining factor in sales, then why not let ca know of this hidden gnostic knowledge, and just tell them they only need to make allot of units and sales will follow, so only focus on "diversity" and they will make a best seller.

    Who cares? It's free, it doesn't mean people are willing to pay £44.99 for an unbalanced mess. Give people something for free, fine; charge them money for it? You'll see a big difference in expectations.

    I need you to start focusing on what I'm saying here because it's getting painful now. Tolkien's world does have many types of creatures and units, however, the vast majority are on the evil side. Stop repeating arguments I am not making, it's getting boring now.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,400
    edited December 2020
    If you want a LOTR RTS/TB hybrid game, play BFME2 or wait for BFME2 Reforged. That's as good as you'll get.

    TW LOTR simply wouldn't work after TWWH since it would represent a huge step back concerning diversity and variety. And yes, if CA wants to use the movie series aesthetics, it'll be expensive. Making up their own won't work. Anyone remember that obscure little RTS game "War of the Ring"? That tried to go with its own artstyle and it was completely overshadowed by the BFME titles which use the movie's aesthetics.

  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 211

    If you want a LOTR RTS/TB hybrid game, play BFME2 or wait for BFME2 Reforged. That's as good as you'll get.

    TW LOTR simply wouldn't work after TWWH since it would represent a huge step back concerning diversity and variety. And yes, if CA wants to use the movie series aesthetics, it'll be expensive. Making up their own won't work. Anyone remember that obscure little RTS game "War of the Ring"? That tried to go with its own artstyle and it was completely overshadowed by the BFME titles which use the movie's aesthetics.

    No one is asking for a **** poor [however it sold well and I played 1 and 2] EA games rts in a LOTR skin [to increase sales] we are asking for a Middle earth total war, all ages if possible. The fact that BFME is as you say "as good as you'll get" shows the need for a Tolkien TW.


    Now let look at your claim. you claim Middle-earth is less diverse than Warhammer, I have never played Warhammer so I cant say it is not. but most people as some posters here prove underestimate the diversity of Middel- earth in the third age and completely ignore the first two ages. But even if so, if what you say is true Tw can never do any historical time period again or it would be a step back in "diversity" and variety. So CA is very limited. just what could they do to satisfy this all-devouring monster that cannot get enough diversity? Where can you show that diversity equals sales? why do so many people on this forum ask for a med 3, or ww1 TW? don't they know that gondor has more diversity than the whole of the middle ages? please explain to me why deep down I don't really want TW because it is not diverse enough instead I want Warhammer because it is diverse. having more diversity of stuff that is not interesting is just more ways to make a bad game. Gondor alone has more diversity than entire TW games. Please show me the Tw game not named Warhammer that would have more diversity than middle earth and ill show you the books offer much more than the movies. What game [if there is any] would you suggest CA do that is more diverse?



    in fact diversity is our determining factor in sales, then why not let ca know of this hidden gnostic knowledge, and just tell them they only need to make allot of units and sales will follow, so only focus on "diversity" and they will make a best seller.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?


    You will have to show me how many units the non diverse, yet major factions like a gondor need for ca to make money. Please go throw the previous TW games and connect/show where sales directly related to unit diversity and where the cutoff is.



    That is your opinion of course. They could hire or use the art of Lee and how and near replicate the vision, plus why is it small companies make games based on LOTR and make money but CA cannot? how much are the rights to make a game? if they are a lot then it must be a coveted item that brings a major fan base with it, more sales.





  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 211

    davedave1124

    One more question. Why is it that third age is consistently still the most popular mod of any tw mod ever made? it does not even have all the units a ca middle earth would and since Tolkien lacks diversity, why is this so? in fact diversity is our determining factor in sales, then why not let ca know of this hidden gnostic knowledge, and just tell them they only need to make allot of units and sales will follow, so only focus on "diversity" and they will make a best seller.

    Who cares? It's free, it doesn't mean people are willing to pay £44.99 for an unbalanced mess. Give people something for free, fine; charge them money for it? You'll see a big difference in expectations.

    I need you to start focusing on what I'm saying here because it's getting painful now. Tolkien's world does have many types of creatures and units, however, the vast majority are on the evil side. Stop repeating arguments I am not making, it's getting boring now.
    I am not repeating arguments, I am showing you have no response to support your claims. so once more you ignore what is asked of you to support your claims showing even you know they are baseless opinions only.

    All mods are free, that is why I pointed out what you see of lack of diversity does not stop a mod made many years ago from being the most popular mod every year.


    Once more no one is asking for your "unbalanced mess" but a tolkien total war game.


    and as I showed gondor alone has more diversity than whole tw games but you ignore it. what would you suggest they do next and support please.





    But even if so, if what you say is true Tw can never do any historical time period again or it would be a step back in "diversity" and variety. So CA is very limited. just what could they do to satisfy this all-devouring monster that cannot get enough diversity? Where can you show that diversity equals sales? why do so many people on this forum ask for a med 3, or ww1 TW? don't they know that gondor has more diversity than the whole of the middle ages? please explain to me why deep down I don't really want TW because it is not diverse enough instead I want Warhammer because it is diverse. having more diversity of stuff that is not interesting is just more ways to make a bad game. Gondor alone has more diversity than entire TW games. Please show me the Tw game not named Warhammer that would have more diversity than middle earth and ill show you the books offer much more than the movies. What game [if there is any] would you suggest CA do that is more diverse?



    in fact diversity is our determining factor in sales, then why not let ca know of this hidden gnostic knowledge, and just tell them they only need to make allot of units and sales will follow, so only focus on "diversity" and they will make a best seller.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,313

    davedave1124

    One more question. Why is it that third age is consistently still the most popular mod of any tw mod ever made? it does not even have all the units a ca middle earth would and since Tolkien lacks diversity, why is this so? in fact diversity is our determining factor in sales, then why not let ca know of this hidden gnostic knowledge, and just tell them they only need to make allot of units and sales will follow, so only focus on "diversity" and they will make a best seller.

    Who cares? It's free, it doesn't mean people are willing to pay £44.99 for an unbalanced mess. Give people something for free, fine; charge them money for it? You'll see a big difference in expectations.

    I need you to start focusing on what I'm saying here because it's getting painful now. Tolkien's world does have many types of creatures and units, however, the vast majority are on the evil side. Stop repeating arguments I am not making, it's getting boring now.
    I am not repeating arguments, I am showing you have no response to support your claims. so once more you ignore what is asked of you to support your claims showing even you know they are baseless opinions only.

    All mods are free, that is why I pointed out what you see of lack of diversity does not stop a mod made many years ago from being the most popular mod every year.


    Once more no one is asking for your "unbalanced mess" but a tolkien total war game.


    and as I showed gondor alone has more diversity than whole tw games but you ignore it. what would you suggest they do next and support please.





    But even if so, if what you say is true Tw can never do any historical time period again or it would be a step back in "diversity" and variety. So CA is very limited. just what could they do to satisfy this all-devouring monster that cannot get enough diversity? Where can you show that diversity equals sales? why do so many people on this forum ask for a med 3, or ww1 TW? don't they know that gondor has more diversity than the whole of the middle ages? please explain to me why deep down I don't really want TW because it is not diverse enough instead I want Warhammer because it is diverse. having more diversity of stuff that is not interesting is just more ways to make a bad game. Gondor alone has more diversity than entire TW games. Please show me the Tw game not named Warhammer that would have more diversity than middle earth and ill show you the books offer much more than the movies. What game [if there is any] would you suggest CA do that is more diverse?



    in fact diversity is our determining factor in sales, then why not let ca know of this hidden gnostic knowledge, and just tell them they only need to make allot of units and sales will follow, so only focus on "diversity" and they will make a best seller.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?
    I ask you to show me a diverse list.. you haven't.

    I look at the mod and see how tedious the Gondor mod looks which proves my point about human races being tedious compared to evil races.

    Instead of noticing that I am complaining about the lack of balance between evil and good races in terms of diversity you keep believing I'm making a simple diversity is good argument and missing the point by a mile. I'm not willing to hold someone's hand through a painfully basic point, I've not got the patience.

    You make the point that Gondor does have a diverse roster and then at the same time claims that diversity doesn't matter, which informs me you know Gondor is quite tedious in terms of a TW game.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 211

    davedave1124

    One more question. Why is it that third age is consistently still the most popular mod of any tw mod ever made? it does not even have all the units a ca middle earth would and since Tolkien lacks diversity, why is this so? in fact diversity is our determining factor in sales, then why not let ca know of this hidden gnostic knowledge, and just tell them they only need to make allot of units and sales will follow, so only focus on "diversity" and they will make a best seller.

    Who cares? It's free, it doesn't mean people are willing to pay £44.99 for an unbalanced mess. Give people something for free, fine; charge them money for it? You'll see a big difference in expectations.

    I need you to start focusing on what I'm saying here because it's getting painful now. Tolkien's world does have many types of creatures and units, however, the vast majority are on the evil side. Stop repeating arguments I am not making, it's getting boring now.
    I am not repeating arguments, I am showing you have no response to support your claims. so once more you ignore what is asked of you to support your claims showing even you know they are baseless opinions only.

    All mods are free, that is why I pointed out what you see of lack of diversity does not stop a mod made many years ago from being the most popular mod every year.


    Once more no one is asking for your "unbalanced mess" but a tolkien total war game.


    and as I showed gondor alone has more diversity than whole tw games but you ignore it. what would you suggest they do next and support please.





    But even if so, if what you say is true Tw can never do any historical time period again or it would be a step back in "diversity" and variety. So CA is very limited. just what could they do to satisfy this all-devouring monster that cannot get enough diversity? Where can you show that diversity equals sales? why do so many people on this forum ask for a med 3, or ww1 TW? don't they know that gondor has more diversity than the whole of the middle ages? please explain to me why deep down I don't really want TW because it is not diverse enough instead I want Warhammer because it is diverse. having more diversity of stuff that is not interesting is just more ways to make a bad game. Gondor alone has more diversity than entire TW games. Please show me the Tw game not named Warhammer that would have more diversity than middle earth and ill show you the books offer much more than the movies. What game [if there is any] would you suggest CA do that is more diverse?



    in fact diversity is our determining factor in sales, then why not let ca know of this hidden gnostic knowledge, and just tell them they only need to make allot of units and sales will follow, so only focus on "diversity" and they will make a best seller.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?
    I ask you to show me a diverse list.. you haven't.

    I look at the mod and see how tedious the Gondor mod looks which proves my point about human races being tedious compared to evil races.

    Instead of noticing that I am complaining about the lack of balance between evil and good races in terms of diversity you keep believing I'm making a simple diversity is good argument and missing the point by a mile. I'm not willing to hold someone's hand through a painfully basic point, I've not got the patience.

    You make the point that Gondor does have a diverse roster and then at the same time claims that diversity doesn't matter, which informs me you know Gondor is quite tedious in terms of a TW game.

    as we see your whole diversity argument has nothing to stand on and is illogical thus trying to get some sort of response is like pulling teeth.

    I have linked you to the gondorian unit lists [once more not even full] 4 times now and feel no need to do so you can ignore it once more.

    So now its no longer lack of diversity but that the evil factions have more monsters. Who cares? play as mordor the orcs of the misty mountains etc if that is what you like. I would play as rohan or lorien. I don't see it as lack of diversity but more diversity. You can play as a "non diverse" faction like Gondor who are more diverse than 99% of any factions TW has ever made and still have wizards, eagels, an army of the dead, perhaps ents ,boats, various infantry, calvary, archers, might castles, half elves, etc or you can play as you like a mordor and have even more. As far as i am aware nobody has ever not played a lotr game due to thinking one side has more monsters. Please support that would affect sales.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,313

    davedave1124

    One more question. Why is it that third age is consistently still the most popular mod of any tw mod ever made? it does not even have all the units a ca middle earth would and since Tolkien lacks diversity, why is this so? in fact diversity is our determining factor in sales, then why not let ca know of this hidden gnostic knowledge, and just tell them they only need to make allot of units and sales will follow, so only focus on "diversity" and they will make a best seller.

    Who cares? It's free, it doesn't mean people are willing to pay £44.99 for an unbalanced mess. Give people something for free, fine; charge them money for it? You'll see a big difference in expectations.

    I need you to start focusing on what I'm saying here because it's getting painful now. Tolkien's world does have many types of creatures and units, however, the vast majority are on the evil side. Stop repeating arguments I am not making, it's getting boring now.
    I am not repeating arguments, I am showing you have no response to support your claims. so once more you ignore what is asked of you to support your claims showing even you know they are baseless opinions only.

    All mods are free, that is why I pointed out what you see of lack of diversity does not stop a mod made many years ago from being the most popular mod every year.


    Once more no one is asking for your "unbalanced mess" but a tolkien total war game.


    and as I showed gondor alone has more diversity than whole tw games but you ignore it. what would you suggest they do next and support please.





    But even if so, if what you say is true Tw can never do any historical time period again or it would be a step back in "diversity" and variety. So CA is very limited. just what could they do to satisfy this all-devouring monster that cannot get enough diversity? Where can you show that diversity equals sales? why do so many people on this forum ask for a med 3, or ww1 TW? don't they know that gondor has more diversity than the whole of the middle ages? please explain to me why deep down I don't really want TW because it is not diverse enough instead I want Warhammer because it is diverse. having more diversity of stuff that is not interesting is just more ways to make a bad game. Gondor alone has more diversity than entire TW games. Please show me the Tw game not named Warhammer that would have more diversity than middle earth and ill show you the books offer much more than the movies. What game [if there is any] would you suggest CA do that is more diverse?



    in fact diversity is our determining factor in sales, then why not let ca know of this hidden gnostic knowledge, and just tell them they only need to make allot of units and sales will follow, so only focus on "diversity" and they will make a best seller.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?
    I ask you to show me a diverse list.. you haven't.

    I look at the mod and see how tedious the Gondor mod looks which proves my point about human races being tedious compared to evil races.

    Instead of noticing that I am complaining about the lack of balance between evil and good races in terms of diversity you keep believing I'm making a simple diversity is good argument and missing the point by a mile. I'm not willing to hold someone's hand through a painfully basic point, I've not got the patience.

    You make the point that Gondor does have a diverse roster and then at the same time claims that diversity doesn't matter, which informs me you know Gondor is quite tedious in terms of a TW game.

    as we see your whole diversity argument has nothing to stand on and is illogical thus trying to get some sort of response is like pulling teeth.

    I have linked you to the gondorian unit lists [once more not even full] 4 times now and feel no need to do so you can ignore it once more.

    So now its no longer lack of diversity but that the evil factions have more monsters. Who cares? play as mordor the orcs of the misty mountains etc if that is what you like. I would play as rohan or lorien. I don't see it as lack of diversity but more diversity. You can play as a "non diverse" faction like Gondor who are more diverse than 99% of any factions TW has ever made and still have wizards, eagels, an army of the dead, perhaps ents ,boats, various infantry, calvary, archers, might castles, half elves, etc or you can play as you like a mordor and have even more. As far as i am aware nobody has ever not played a lotr game due to thinking one side has more monsters. Please support that would affect sales.
    Let me take this slowly for you because you seem to be having problems understanding:

    The most popular human factions have a boring roster compared to the evil factions. I have checked the so called mod and this underlines this point. This is a fact.

    Now, it's your turn to say.. "no, Gondor has a cool roster look at this amazing list with all these troop types, this will blow the WHFB Empire list out of the water...."

    Now please don't say 'Gondor has a great roster or Shogun 2 was popular and that doesn't have a diverse roster, because if you do, I'm going to imagine you are quite slow and missing the point I'm making thus wasting my time.

    Explain how CA can balance the good roster (dull) compared to the evil roster (diverse).
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 211
    edited December 2020

    davedave1124

    One more question. Why is it that third age is consistently still the most popular mod of any tw mod ever made? it does not even have all the units a ca middle earth would and since Tolkien lacks diversity, why is this so? in fact diversity is our determining factor in sales, then why not let ca know of this hidden gnostic knowledge, and just tell them they only need to make allot of units and sales will follow, so only focus on "diversity" and they will make a best seller.

    Who cares? It's free, it doesn't mean people are willing to pay £44.99 for an unbalanced mess. Give people something for free, fine; charge them money for it? You'll see a big difference in expectations.

    I need you to start focusing on what I'm saying here because it's getting painful now. Tolkien's world does have many types of creatures and units, however, the vast majority are on the evil side. Stop repeating arguments I am not making, it's getting boring now.
    I am not repeating arguments, I am showing you have no response to support your claims. so once more you ignore what is asked of you to support your claims showing even you know they are baseless opinions only.

    All mods are free, that is why I pointed out what you see of lack of diversity does not stop a mod made many years ago from being the most popular mod every year.


    Once more no one is asking for your "unbalanced mess" but a tolkien total war game.


    and as I showed gondor alone has more diversity than whole tw games but you ignore it. what would you suggest they do next and support please.





    But even if so, if what you say is true Tw can never do any historical time period again or it would be a step back in "diversity" and variety. So CA is very limited. just what could they do to satisfy this all-devouring monster that cannot get enough diversity? Where can you show that diversity equals sales? why do so many people on this forum ask for a med 3, or ww1 TW? don't they know that gondor has more diversity than the whole of the middle ages? please explain to me why deep down I don't really want TW because it is not diverse enough instead I want Warhammer because it is diverse. having more diversity of stuff that is not interesting is just more ways to make a bad game. Gondor alone has more diversity than entire TW games. Please show me the Tw game not named Warhammer that would have more diversity than middle earth and ill show you the books offer much more than the movies. What game [if there is any] would you suggest CA do that is more diverse?



    in fact diversity is our determining factor in sales, then why not let ca know of this hidden gnostic knowledge, and just tell them they only need to make allot of units and sales will follow, so only focus on "diversity" and they will make a best seller.


    question. if ca did middle earth with expansion from all ages, what would you rather them do that has more diversity? further, can you support that people would not play a Tolkien game due to your perceived lack of diversity? lastly, why can small companies make money with licenses from Tolkiens world but ca cannot?
    I ask you to show me a diverse list.. you haven't.

    I look at the mod and see how tedious the Gondor mod looks which proves my point about human races being tedious compared to evil races.

    Instead of noticing that I am complaining about the lack of balance between evil and good races in terms of diversity you keep believing I'm making a simple diversity is good argument and missing the point by a mile. I'm not willing to hold someone's hand through a painfully basic point, I've not got the patience.

    You make the point that Gondor does have a diverse roster and then at the same time claims that diversity doesn't matter, which informs me you know Gondor is quite tedious in terms of a TW game.

    as we see your whole diversity argument has nothing to stand on and is illogical thus trying to get some sort of response is like pulling teeth.

    I have linked you to the gondorian unit lists [once more not even full] 4 times now and feel no need to do so you can ignore it once more.

    So now its no longer lack of diversity but that the evil factions have more monsters. Who cares? play as mordor the orcs of the misty mountains etc if that is what you like. I would play as rohan or lorien. I don't see it as lack of diversity but more diversity. You can play as a "non diverse" faction like Gondor who are more diverse than 99% of any factions TW has ever made and still have wizards, eagels, an army of the dead, perhaps ents ,boats, various infantry, calvary, archers, might castles, half elves, etc or you can play as you like a mordor and have even more. As far as i am aware nobody has ever not played a lotr game due to thinking one side has more monsters. Please support that would affect sales.
    Let me take this slowly for you because you seem to be having problems understanding:

    The most popular human factions have a boring roster compared to the evil factions. I have checked the so called mod and this underlines this point. This is a fact.

    Now, it's your turn to say.. "no, Gondor has a cool roster look at this amazing list with all these troop types, this will blow the WHFB Empire list out of the water...."

    Now please don't say 'Gondor has a great roster or Shogun 2 was popular and that doesn't have a diverse roster, because if you do, I'm going to imagine you are quite slow and missing the point I'm making thus wasting my time.

    Explain how CA can balance the good roster (dull) compared to the evil roster (diverse).

    Typing slow does nothing to change your false assumptions you show your unwillingness to challenge. All of your posts are built on mere opinion and as I have shown would make it impossible for any game to be fun according to you. 99% of all tw games and factions and any future game would to you be dull. CA does not make any games based on you alone and since you cant argue that what you desire would affect sales [you would in fact call 99% of total war games factions poor for sales] or has in the past, you must hold onto your false assumptions based on your opinion. What you are missing is that I refuse to accept your baseless false, mere opinion as facts vital to your statements. You must support your baseless assumptions to use them to argue.


    It is your opinion alone that good factions are bearing rosters, I would rather be a good player. Noone playing gondor [witch is far more diverse if CA did it] of it being boring. If they did they would play as an evil faction perhaps. Either way your entire argument is that you would like playing as the evil factions more than gondor, ok, if that be the objection so be it. One person thinks one side is better than the other. I can accept that. i think the free peoples are more exciting generally. I would rather have ents than mumakil, gladriel than sauron, gandalf than the witch king, eagles than tools and wargs, rohherim than saruman etc etc




    Come to think of it, I bet I can find a less diverse faction in Warhammer than gondor and so prove that some factions are more boring to others by your own admission, and thus Warhammer should not be done. But every game ever made by ca will have factions more bearing to some than others, thus your own argument would have to end up all factions being the same so there is no difference between factions. that to me would be boring. your own desires will never be filled in any tw game past or future and it they were adopted, tw would soon die out. but at least you would buy one copy.



    Let me turn your argument on your game Warhammer [i find all of Warhammer factions boring] some factions i dilkie more than others, therefore they should not make Warhammer and it would not sell good. this is the extent of your argument.
    Post edited by virginia1861 on
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,313
    My posts are built on the fact that the mod you used as an example has very basic troop types for the human factions - that’s a fact. The way to disprove my argument is to show me this diverse list you can see in your head.

    If someone said to me WH doesn’t have a diverse roster, I’d give them an example of a diverse roster.. I wouldn’t babble about how that person asking doesn’t know anything or tell them how diverse it is without proving it.
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,518
    I like LotR for it's setting.

    I don't care if there are no Vampires, no Chaos, no Skaven, whatever...

    LotR is LotR. People must stop comparing it to WH. It's like compare 3Kingdoms with Rome2.

    People are asking fantasy game which are better than WH, what might that be?

    People want CA to create their own fantasy? Do they think it will sell well?

    LotR already has fanbase. People who play LotR games and LotR mods might also buy it.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 211

    My posts are built on the fact that the mod you used as an example has very basic troop types for the human factions - that’s a fact. The way to disprove my argument is to show me this diverse list you can see in your head.

    If someone said to me WH doesn’t have a diverse roster, I’d give them an example of a diverse roster.. I wouldn’t babble about how that person asking doesn’t know anything or tell them how diverse it is without proving it.

    As I said your argument is that you like the evil factions more and that Gondor is less than you would like. But your not able to say what ca could do next that would bring more diversity nor point to factions more diverse in past tw games outside of some in Warhammer. So a plain man centered faction like gondor has more diversity than entire previous tw games yet it is not enough. you have no ideas where ca could go to find more diversity, your just sure it is not middle earth. I think we understand your argument very well. You have been given the roster many times and everytime you close your eyes and cover your ears to avoid that roster. So As I have said before no one is recommending your knostic view of tolkien that exists in your mind by J.R.r Tolkiens world.
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,662
    Of course he can't point to past titles that have been more diverse other than WH, that is the only Fantasy line they've made. Historical isn't entirely the same customer base. It's the fantasy lot you need to appeal to which means WH. Of course there is also the Age Of Sigmar (AoS) which is the WH Fantasy line that replaced the current games universe that CA could cover.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,313

    My posts are built on the fact that the mod you used as an example has very basic troop types for the human factions - that’s a fact. The way to disprove my argument is to show me this diverse list you can see in your head.

    If someone said to me WH doesn’t have a diverse roster, I’d give them an example of a diverse roster.. I wouldn’t babble about how that person asking doesn’t know anything or tell them how diverse it is without proving it.

    As I said your argument is that you like the evil factions more and that Gondor is less than you would like. But your not able to say what ca could do next that would bring more diversity nor point to factions more diverse in past tw games outside of some in Warhammer. So a plain man centered faction like gondor has more diversity than entire previous tw games yet it is not enough. you have no ideas where ca could go to find more diversity, your just sure it is not middle earth. I think we understand your argument very well. You have been given the roster many times and everytime you close your eyes and cover your ears to avoid that roster. So As I have said before no one is recommending your knostic view of tolkien that exists in your mind by J.R.r Tolkiens world.
    Nope, it's not a case of 'liking' it's a case of knowing there are a multitude of monstrous units of all shapes and sizes while this simply isn't true for the good guys.

    I checked the roster already. I've asked you multiple times to list these diverse and interesting good units and so far I've had Eagles and Ents.. more input needed. Tell you what, give me your top 10 crazy good units:
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