Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

WE patch is disappointing.

expaexpa Registered Users Posts: 38
Dear developers and community,


This is the worst "rework" ever! It is so bad that I can't believe it. It is a glorified patch which doesn't bring any combat mechanics for the wood elves and little in terms of campaign mechanics.

The wood elves suffer from the same issues and deficiencies as before, both in SP and MP with some new ones added.

Overall the Wood Elves received some slight buffs:

Vanguard deployment for a lot of units and lords which is interesting gives them more options. They don't have vanguard for all units and all mount options, which leaves some gaps, but it is a buff.

Dryads got a speed buff
Tree kin got a damage buff, but no melee skill buff
Tree kin got a defence nerf
Waywatchers got a price increase. Another nerf on this over priced and over nerfed unit.
Orion can attack while moving
Glade riders got a 1 missile damage increase (I am not sure of this one)

These are buffs and it helps the WE, but this is not A REWORK. This is a glorified patch which could have been done by with a good editing tool in (hope they have that and don't use what the modders use) in 30 minutes.


I have to add here the following rework which will be implemented with this patch: a knock down reduction which will affect the game massively. All single entity foot lords and all infantry units are buffed while cavalry and monsters are nerfed. This is important because the WE got 3 cavalry units and 2 ROR in the DLC.

The DLC also brings a few units:

Glade riders with spears is a terrible reskin of a unit, with pathetic stats which struggles against everything including units which is supposed to run down, but fills in the cheap run down enemy units fast cavalry which the WE did not have. In MP it will perform well in campaign it will be garbage.


Bladedancers a glorified reskin unit of wardancers which cost 50% more than a regular one and it is even worse in some matchups and most importantly doesn't cover any of the weaknesses of the dancers. (In most matches I saw on youtube best case scenario 1 of them barely paid for it self, while the rest underperformed dramatic). Has a niche application but it is massively overpriced and over hyped and dies to cheap skirmishers like all the Elven parts of the roaster.

Stag Knights another unit of very expensive monstrous cavalry which has no survivability (Some rumors are that this is a reskinned or resized model as well). The only saving grace of this unit is it is HP pool / model, but there are a few problems. Cavalry is bad in this game combined with the knock down collision nerf it will be even worse. Another massive problem which this unit has is its charge animation which doesn't help it. The unit charges , dips its head (awesome like most deer, elk stag do), then stops(WHY?) and jumps(WHY?) into the enemy. If it would have continue to rush/ charge and slam into the unit and at the second row would have done the head motion and throw the enemies it would have been glorious. (In most playthroughs I saw it gets trapped loses models way too easy. In MP generally doesn't pay for itself and fills the role the Wild riders should have had. I also think that the voice of the unit is that of the wild riders, but I might be mistaken.)

The ROR stag knight brings in a new problem for the WE. It is an ethereal ROR which has 75% physical save. Previously in MP people brought magic damage from time to time now they will bring it more often. Also magic damage versus wood elves is very good, because they don't get a true ward save, and now they have a bigger incentive to bring it thus negating the already pathetic defence they had.

Zoats are a reskin of dragon ogres and fill a niche roll in the WE roaster, they are weaker then Dragon ogres in combat, but bring some spells for support. (In most matches I saw on youtube best case scenario 1 of them barely paid for it self, while the rest underperformed dramatic. You must be very careful with them as they cost a lot).

Galadriel costs an arm and a leg, brings worse magic traits then the original high magic and dark magic has a lot of useless spells (good in campaign terrible in MP) has 1 good item and the rest are meh. Looks Cool, but goes to war in Pijama. Also to make the Gorebull not feel so lonely he joined his shooting start meme club.

The sisters are terrible both in MP and SP. They have 1 item in MP (despite being the favourite girls of the avatar of the crafting god). The arrows attacks miss too often and they seem to have a mind of their own when attacking. A niche pick at best and a meme lord worthy of Tic Tac Toe in campaign.


Disclaimer: The stats might be subject to change and tweaks. Also the data collected by me in MP by watching youtube videos is FOR SURE insuficient and most people experimented and played very diverse and tried many strategies with the WE and against the WE. Sometimes they paid off, sometimes they didn't. Please be advised that this data comes from some of the best players however and while their micro might have slipped from time to time they are still participants in the Neverchosen or very good players. Also we don't have full patch notes with changes done to other races.


Both the patch and the DLC bring way to few things for the WE and solve none of their problems.

The main question which was never asked from Total War 1: Who are the Asray?
They are elven colonists, refugees of a conflict which lasted 400 years.
For a race of master crafters, master weavers which has access to plenty of game and plants both normal and magical ones, for a race who fought in a war and seen the horrors of countless battles, for a race which lives in magical forest which protects them and is capable of doing some amazing things to design them without armor and "magical" protection is plain dumb and lazy.


They are one of the worst translated race from the table top to the game.
They were imagined to be elite and expensive, but they got only the expensive part and some beyond pathetic stats. They were imagined to be a glass cannon faction but got only the glass part of it.
Also the fact that in the game we have sieges they got no equipment to deal with that kind of battles. They also have huge problems in defending any settlement because even if the forest created walls, changed the land scape, made labyrinths lured enemies into traps this was not implemented for them.

Every unit from the WE needs to have at least 60 armor. You don't send your best warriors naked with their ding dong dangling in the air to fight the enemy. Not when you have access to the best craftsmen in this fantasy universe.
Every unit from the WE needs to receive a true ward save which depending on the unit can increase. It starts up at 17% (6+) and it can add up if the unit is attuned with nature or has some other shenanigans.

Dancers need to receive their dances including the ward save one, yes it will provide 68% ward save in total for Dancers in melee.

Arrow variants/ firing mode for ALL elven range units.

Siege Treeman. Yes a treeman which throws boulders. You inspired yourself from LotR and you did not put a treeman to throw boulders.

Unicorn Cavalry, Giant wolves, Black panthers, jaguars etc.

Variants of dryads, tree kin and treeman available both in SP and MP not that recycled green screen mechanic.

Maybe even some ground 4 legged monster for them.

Lore of magics they still don't have access to all and they didn't get a special one, especially since there is a mod which allows you to summon terrain! Also the traits ,for the high and dark lores they got, are much weaker than their counterpart.


Regarding the Campaign map:
The office system was removed from the empire because it was crap, but it was kept for the WE. The Office system offers piece of trash bonuses. For the sisters there are 2 which are decent, but overall this system is atrocious and terrible.

The wild hunt event is absolutely trash.

The sister mechanic is a glorified ritual. It is absolutely trash. You have a limited number of heroes who have limited number of slots. This system offers way too little. I don't want to craft broken items, but in the current format it is trash. Also the sisters don't have 8 slots and apparently they take turns in wearing the items. (one wears the left boot the other the right boot and the next battle they switch.)

Your empire and the provinces you are supposed to capture are disjointed and miles away from you. You can teleport very slowly and one army at a time (not that you can afford too many) with a long cooldown.

The tech tree is a diplomatic nerf and a income nerf. Combat wise there are nerfs and buffs and I think overall there is a slight buff.
You get less ambush defence chance and the 25% ward save during forest battles is gone. (10% from research and 15% from skill)
The only good thing is that you have Magic cooldown and cost reduction.
You still have researches which are gated behind amber. There are "just a few".

Speaking of skill trees the choices for all WE are pathetic.
The heroes got beyond pathetic skills. The so called captain offers 1 buff to certain units. Seriously, you call that a captain? What did I expect from a captain/ paladin type hero.

The way watchers brings nothing to the team and dryads have been nerfed as well. (Drycha has some traits, but faction only and you can't bring them in MP).


For all those beastmen fans the WE took another bullet for you. If this would have been Skaven vs beastmen you would have received nothing as well. For all players out there who have other races as favourite hope that you don't get matched with the skaven.

If this would have been the dwarf rework imagine the outrage. It would have been full of meme and shameful display(There were some even now, but not enough). This would have been in the Book of grudges and would have never forgive CA. They would have forced all members of CA to take the slayer oath.


It is gloom and darkness for the WE because this was supposed to be a rework for a DLC faction which would pave the wave for other WH 1 factions to be updated and what we got is a lazy patch for them. Dwarves and Vampires got for free something much better. The HE, DE and WE would love that forge mechanic. The only thing we can do is raise our voices and concerns and hopefully this biased towards other factions ends and gets rectified and all future factions get the same love.

Maybe I just had higher expectations, but besides those the mathematics proves my point.


Have a nice day.


P.S.1: CA doesn't have the balls to delay the launch (Cyberpunk style) and come back with something better.

P.S.2: I was blind but now I see, those blood wrack shrines blinded me in the Malus DLC. He got the same **** treatment with pathetic mechanics. He is so trash that it is better to confederate him than to play him.
Tagged:
«13

Comments

  • ReyDReyD Registered Users Posts: 288
    edited December 2020
    "This is the worst "rework" ever!"

    That was a quick read for me. I stopped at that line cause I know I already disagree with you.

    Worst Rework Ever ? Are you kidding :D
    It's one of the best, if not the best rework to date in this trilogy.

    When a rework doesn't meet your ... weird and disproportionate expectations, it doesn't make it "bad" per say
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,614
    Rework is good, DLC units are decent, but the Sisters mechanics are awful and require a rework.
  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Registered Users Posts: 4,695
    You know the Glade riders and Glade captain are FLC? And Drycha and her faction?

    You know that the Deep root system is technically a FLC sine you also get it if you own "only" original wood elves?



    You are extremely ungrateful and I don t want to be assocciated wtih you.
  • Theo91Theo91 Registered Users Posts: 2,364
    I didn't read all your ramblings however i'm sure the devs worked really hard over testing times to put this content out. I for one will be buying it but obviously you're not obliged to. But i dont think it's right for you to rip into the developers because you didn't like the free content.

    Please just keep your opinions to yourself if you having nothing useful to contribute
  • Valnir19Valnir19 Registered Users Posts: 5
    I'm waiting for when some people on this forum get their 'Humility' rework
  • VladdyVladdy Registered Users Posts: 403
    Best rework no doubts.
  • kevManiackevManiac Registered Users Posts: 908
    edited December 2020
    Worst rework ever:

    Screams in Dwarf
    Races I'd like to have in Warhammer: Chaos Dwarfs, Southern Realms, Nippon.

    #JusticeForTzeentch.
  • spivospivo Registered Users Posts: 64
    edited December 2020
    I to am so dissapointed.

    This DLC is the worst work ever done in the whole history of humanity, and maybe even history of the universe.
    If I could give it a -10, I could.

    Nothing is good about it, and even the mechanics done right are done wrong, and the things done wrong are done super wrong.

    Most offending is that the WE are not OP now. Every DLC we buy with the expectation that all the units will be OP for at least 3 months.
  • ReyDReyD Registered Users Posts: 288
    edited December 2020
    Damn each DLC release is like that around here ?
    That's painful to read xD

    I disapeared a couple months ago but each time I come back there is some really angry players spamming non sense and disproportionate expectations for their factions like if their life was in danger.

    Back in 2017 when I was active, we were speculating about 2 lords pack at best and maybe one FLC lords for those races like WE or Empire.
    And now even if the support of the game exceed any possible dream, people are smashing their keyboard being angry about the addition of units and lords that don't even exist in TT xD
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,614

    I hope after the DLC is released the whining about the WE part will stop or at least turn down a bit...

    It will intensify. When players get a chance to experience the Glorified Rite of Vaul then I expect a healthy dose of outrage.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Rob18446Rob18446 Registered Users Posts: 2,286
    This is one heck of a long troll post, only got half way through before I got bored, try harder next time.
  • bloodplaguebloodplague Registered Users Posts: 29
    dude if u start with this is worst ever then make sure to include tdlr


    nope i dont agree
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,614

    Varinor said:

    I hope after the DLC is released the whining about the WE part will stop or at least turn down a bit...

    It will intensify. When players get a chance to experience the Glorified Rite of Vaul then I expect a healthy dose of outrage.
    Yes, the 3 complaining guys on this forum will spamm even more threads and annoy the rest of us.
    Plus thousands of people on reddit.
  • wunderb0rwunderb0r Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 855
    thank you for your opinion. please consider buying a diary or journal, or talk to real people from time to time.

    another idea:

    wait for the DLC to drop, then play, THEN make up your mind about it.
    ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 4,350
    Yeah I am not going to read that wall of text
  • BillyRuffianBillyRuffian Moderator UKRegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 39,962
    Some comments removed. Please discuss the topic without discussing other users.

    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts - for support rather than illumination." (Andrew Lang)

    |Takeda| Yokota Takatoshi

    Forum Terms and Conditions: - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest

    "We wunt be druv". iot6pc7dn8qs.png
  • ZekerathZekerath Registered Users Posts: 689
    I'm going to indulge you for a moment.

    From what I gather of all that text is that you are disappointed that wood elves were not buffed to have better defensive stats than most defensive races, because they somehow are supposed to have best craftsmen in the world.

    They have one of the best craftsmen in the world, and he can't possibly supply for whole race on his own. Otherwise, there is little notion that Asrai are better craftsmen than other races, also, they live in forest, and seeming abhor industry, so resources needed to craft metal armor are probably scarce among them, hence they wear leathers and such. Plus, you even say in your text that wood elves are supposed to be glass canons, so I would never agree with that they should have minimum of 60 armor and 15+ ward save at all times.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,614
    Zekerath said:

    I'm going to indulge you for a moment.

    From what I gather of all that text is that you are disappointed that wood elves were not buffed to have better defensive stats than most defensive races, because they somehow are supposed to have best craftsmen in the world.

    They have one of the best craftsmen in the world, and he can't possibly supply for whole race on his own. Otherwise, there is little notion that Asrai are better craftsmen than other races, also, they live in forest, and seeming abhor industry, so resources needed to craft metal armor are probably scarce among them, hence they wear leathers and such. Plus, you even say in your text that wood elves are supposed to be glass canons, so I would never agree with that they should have minimum of 60 armor and 15+ ward save at all times.

    Daith is the Avatar of Vaul. He most definitely has apprentices who could provide upgrades for the army. As for resources, I think those should be obtainable. If Grom and Throt can possibly supply the whole faction, so can the best smith in Elfdom.
  • expaexpa Registered Users Posts: 38
    Dear community,

    I will try to answer to some of you, because you don't even understand economy or entitlement or humility.


    There is no such thing as FLC! Everything comes at a cost, now or later and what is more important for you or for somebody else!

    You might never buy a dlc, but if nobody buys the dlc then the company just wasted a lot of hours into a project which was a failure. Being a FLC doesn't mean they don't have to pay their employees! It is marketing, advertising it is the lure of buy one get one free, the lure of .99 prices.

    The people who pay for DLC pay for the FLC as well and pay for it for everyone who doesn't buy the DLC.


    Yes I value my money highly as I am not rich and I have to choose from this DLC or Cyberpunk. Well this one is cheap, but that one is better. Maybe if I save enough money I can buy one or another, but not both.


    I don't need to buy the DLC to make my mind about it. I watched multiple people on youtube going through the game with all factions in all campaigns. Only one of them had the balls to tell the truth and when the others objected I decided to make my own investigations. I wanted to see if he is just acting up, or being a douche or if the others are dishonest.

    Everyone is entitled to his opinion, but I had to make up my own.

    I watched more videos from all sides, made print screens compared stats as best as I could. I did the math and see what I got and reached a conclusion.


    The WE rework is a piece of trash. if you buy the DLC the new WE faction is a piece of trash. The lord doesn't even had synergy with the new units added. It is a Tic Tac Toe lord with a glorified ritual mechanic.

    The skaven part of the DLC is amazing and if they remove the warp bomb and adjust a few things there and there it will not be broken. (like all skaven dlc)


    Another thing people don't understand is quality!

    The glade captain is a FLC, but did you know that when on foot and using the bow the spear on her back clips the ground? I am no artist, but in my domain of work I do check my work and then send it even to a quality assurance.

    There are also other problems, but I will let you discover it.






  • MaelasMaelas Registered Users Posts: 5,183
    Amber is gone, the Sisters are exactly like I hoped both in model and voiceover, Ariel is sublime and Arahan laugh like a serial killer in battle.

    What more can you want ?
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,614
    edited December 2020
    expa said:

    The lord doesn't even had synergy with the new units added. It is a Tic Tac Toe lord with a glorified ritual mechanic.

    Another thing people don't understand is quality!

    The glade captain is a FLC, but did you know that when on foot and using the bow the spear on her back clips the ground? I am no artist, but in my domain of work I do check my work and then send it even to a quality assurance.

    With this I wholeheartedly agree. the Sisters mechanics are a glorified rite, and it is weird that no unit in the LP synergises with them. That's why Spites should have been added.

    My problem with Glade Captain is that it is a kitbash while the Skaven get a remodel with its own banner.
    Maelas said:

    Amber is gone, the Sisters are exactly like I hoped both in model and voiceover, Ariel is sublime and Arahan laugh like a serial killer in battle.

    What more can you want ?

    Good mechanics so that WE can have at least one LL that is on the same level as Ikit, Snikch, Throt, Eltharion and Grom.
  • expaexpa Registered Users Posts: 38
    Zekerath said:

    I'm going to indulge you for a moment.

    From what I gather of all that text is that you are disappointed that wood elves were not buffed to have better defensive stats than most defensive races, because they somehow are supposed to have best craftsmen in the world.

    They have one of the best craftsmen in the world, and he can't possibly supply for whole race on his own. Otherwise, there is little notion that Asrai are better craftsmen than other races, also, they live in forest, and seeming abhor industry, so resources needed to craft metal armor are probably scarce among them, hence they wear leathers and such. Plus, you even say in your text that wood elves are supposed to be glass canons, so I would never agree with that they should have minimum of 60 armor and 15+ ward save at all times.

    Thank you for your answer.

    Regarding the Glass Cannon part: CA intended them to be like that, but they never delivered. The only damage dealing unit on their roaster is the waywatchers, which were constantly nerfed without giving alternatives. That is one of the playstyles of the WE and it can create frustration as they snipe everything and you don't see a thing. It was taken away even if it is very hard to pull of and micro intensive, but nothing was given back.


    Daith is the avatar of Vaul he is a demigod which is a master craftsmen.

    In the forest there are a lot of beasts and plants. Clothes and armor are and were made of those, they can Weave the winds of magic, but can't weave some armor? Some of the best armors are made from fibers some of the more fantastic armors are made from animal hides. Apparently only the DE and HE can use the armor of animals to get good armor values.

    Not to say this is a fantasy world where there are exotic metals and animals, sure in that big scary forest they can find some.


    @Varinor exactly the point.




    P.S.: sorry for the long post in the first thread, but there are so many things which I do not agree in their decisions. The only thing I can do is to provide my feedback. Some of you might agree some of you might not. Hopefully it reaches them and they do something about it.
  • ZekerathZekerath Registered Users Posts: 689
    Varinor said:

    Zekerath said:

    I'm going to indulge you for a moment.

    From what I gather of all that text is that you are disappointed that wood elves were not buffed to have better defensive stats than most defensive races, because they somehow are supposed to have best craftsmen in the world.

    They have one of the best craftsmen in the world, and he can't possibly supply for whole race on his own. Otherwise, there is little notion that Asrai are better craftsmen than other races, also, they live in forest, and seeming abhor industry, so resources needed to craft metal armor are probably scarce among them, hence they wear leathers and such. Plus, you even say in your text that wood elves are supposed to be glass canons, so I would never agree with that they should have minimum of 60 armor and 15+ ward save at all times.

    Daith is the Avatar of Vaul. He most definitely has apprentices who could provide upgrades for the army. As for resources, I think those should be obtainable. If Grom and Throt can possibly supply the whole faction, so can the best smith in Elfdom.
    He became avatar of Vaul during the End Times, and that mostly gave him mastery over the lore of metal, he isn't like Orion or Ariel who have been avatars for a long time. And Orion and Ariel were at least actively using their powers in lore, Daith is a small side note for the most part of the lore.
    As for apprentices, perhaps. But since no such are ever mentioned in lore, it's speculation, like most things.

    And whatever the lore point would be, I would still argue that wood elves shouldn't have those changes I mentioned for balancing reasons alone.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 6,473
    The Wood Elves have recieved a complete overhaul in how they play in the Campaign.. OP does not know what he speaks of, and should be disregarded..
  • expaexpa Registered Users Posts: 38
    Maelas said:

    Amber is gone, the Sisters are exactly like I hoped both in model and voiceover, Ariel is sublime and Arahan laugh like a serial killer in battle.

    What more can you want ?


    I am sorry that you are satisfied with so little.

    Amber is not gone, it is present in the tech tree.

    The model and voice over for the sister is good, the bow attack animation however is dubious at best.

    You wanted to say Galadriel :smile: . The voice acting is good, the model looks good, but not on a battlefield. You do not go to war in a nightgown. This is not a pijama party war. Also she was flying around not cause of her wings, but because she was a shooting star like the gore bull.


    I want a working race which brings something to the table and stays relevant for years and doesn't go to the meme department store and then hope it will get updated in 2030. I want some playable reusable mechanics which make it fun and entertaining with units which are good and have and offer synergy.
  • KrabbzKrabbz FranceRegistered Users Posts: 466
    expa said:

    Dear developers and community,


    This is the worst "rework" ever! It is so bad that I can't believe it.

    I stopped there.

Sign In or Register to comment.