The "One take and move on" problem on these games.

InuOkami#8640

Hey folks, just wanted to adress a concerning problem for me and many others (from what i've seen both on these forums, on reddit, on youtube, etc.) on this games and it's DLCs. Recently we saw a little bit of a change on how CA takes feedback into account. They started tweaking stuff previous to the releases and on previous feedback on the consecuent patches more and making it public on forums or reddit. This has been very good recieved, and i appreciate that they take this little details into account.

But, and of course it has to be a but, there is still a big concern on badly done characters, factions, mechanics, design, animations, models, etc, that are all from previous DLCs. What do i mean by this?

As we all know and clearly see, even the folks at CA, from all the Lord Packs of WH2, there has always been a winner except for Allariele and Helleborn: Ikkit Claw, Markus Wulfhart, Snickh, Grom the Paunch, and now Throt the Unclean. And we can see too that some of the old DLCs for WH1 that were lord packs, also suffered from it not being touched up (Belegar and Volkmar, mostly). What this means is that the counterpart for them has been given an after-thought kind of treatment in regards to both campaign mechanics, and overall campaign experience.

So how for long are going to have them in this state? In their reworks, the old world races got an update on almost all their characters and factions too. When you revisit something, you make it good, and they did a good job until now, but what's gonna happen with the DLCs for this game? Are we going to have to pay for another DLC to make a side of the Lord Pack worth it on WH3?

And this aren't obscure characters we're talking about, the most famous i think would be Malus Darkblade, has an entire saga of books for him, and the representation in this game, playing as him, is just bad design, no other way to put it.

I understand someone can't work for free, that's why we get DLCs, so that we can have the Old World Updates. But what happens when there is bad design choices for extra paid content? You just leave it like that because you can't work for free? No, they shouldn't. I know it might sound bad but they should go out of their way and at least once per patch, revisit one of the Legendary Lords of those DLC and make them worth it, make their implementation something good. Why is it that these DLCs (that are often noticed right off the bath that are half-baked) doesn't get touched up?

The size of the new content team might be the factor here, i know, because everything must have been moved at least 2 years ago to the WH3 team, but you can't do the touch and go treatment with content that is supposed to be part of a 10 year long project series that will merge together in one final game.


Please reconsider moving the team from WH3 out once it's released, or at least keep a substantial amount of the team working around with the new content team so that the pace is not as bad as it's been on these past few years for both patches and DLCs releases.

Lord_Distamorfin#1941

The support team for Warhammer 3 needs to be big, even after it's released. Warhammer 3 is going to be the capstone to CA's biggest game ever, probably their magnum opus as a company. It's going to need a lot of people on hand to make sure it keeps running smoothly patch-to-patch and to make sure that DLC doesn't suffer the same curse that Warhammer 2 DLC does (especially if the Skaven end up getting another DLC, because I don't think I can stomach another DLC where they steal all the resources and effort).

CA really needs to actually address the problems with past DLCs when game 2 races eventually start getting reworks. Fix Nakai's campaign, change and update Tehenhauin's sacrifices and give him his 5 missing RoRs, expand Eltharion's Athel Tamarha a bit so that you aren't done upgrading it halfway through his campaign.

InuOkami#8640

The fact that as Cult of Sotek you can't access the consecuent RoRs being that it literally is the next DLC they released still escape my understanding. And they already started to work on it before releasing the Prophet and the Warlock, how is that they thought "mmm yes we shouldn't keep additional slots on the pyramid for the next RoRs we are making, why would we?"?

afverrall#1754

I think you massivly overstating that one side is worse in every game 2 lord pack and I think this melodramatic appoach harms ate chances to legtimatly heard by ca.

With the game 1 packs I have more tespect for what your saying volkmar has nothing really other than decent flagullents and belengar has nothing.

Arcani_4_Ever#4489

Its crazy that Ikit Claw gets unique RoRs from his Laboratory.

But Tehenhuains RoRs are the base RoRs from his pyramid.

It looks even more jarring when the Nakai RoRs can be recruited normally without having to mess with the Pyramid.

Spellbound1875#4610

coury97 said:

Hey folks, just wanted to adress a concerning problem for me and many others (from what i've seen both on these forums, on reddit, on youtube, etc.) on this games and it's DLCs. Recently we saw a little bit of a change on how CA takes feedback into account. They started tweaking stuff previous to the releases and on previous feedback on the consecuent patches more and making it public on forums or reddit. This has been very good recieved, and i appreciate that they take this little details into account.

But, and of course it has to be a but, there is still a big concern on badly done characters, factions, mechanics, design, animations, models, etc, that are all from previous DLCs. What do i mean by this?

As we all know and clearly see, even the folks at CA, from all the Lord Packs of WH2, there has always been a winner except for Allariele and Helleborn: Ikkit Claw, Markus Wulfhart, Snickh, Grom the Paunch, and now Throt the Unclean. And we can see too that some of the old DLCs for WH1 that were lord packs, also suffered from it not being touched up (Belegar and Volkmar, mostly). What this means is that the counterpart for them has been given an after-thought kind of treatment in regards to both campaign mechanics, and overall campaign experience.

So how for long are going to have them in this state? In their reworks, the old world races got an update on almost all their characters and factions too. When you revisit something, you make it good, and they did a good job until now, but what's gonna happen with the DLCs for this game? Are we going to have to pay for another DLC to make a side of the Lord Pack worth it on WH3?

And this aren't obscure characters we're talking about, the most famous i think would be Malus Darkblade, has an entire saga of books for him, and the representation in this game, playing as him, is just bad design, no other way to put it.

I understand someone can't work for free, that's why we get DLCs, so that we can have the Old World Updates. But what happens when there is bad design choices for extra paid content? You just leave it like that because you can't work for free? No, they shouldn't. I know it might sound bad but they should go out of their way and at least once per patch, revisit one of the Legendary Lords of those DLC and make them worth it, make their implementation something good. Why is it that these DLCs (that are often noticed right off the bath that are half-baked) doesn't get touched up?

The size of the new content team might be the factor here, i know, because everything must have been moved at least 2 years ago to the WH3 team, but you can't do the touch and go treatment with content that is supposed to be part of a 10 year long project series that will merge together in one final game.


Please reconsider moving the team from WH3 out once it's released, or at least keep a substantial amount of the team working around with the new content team so that the pace is not as bad as it's been on these past few years for both patches and DLCs releases.

Considering that they've touched up a variety of characters in this patch who hadn't been adjusted previously, and that they'll be making improvements to campaign mechanics and effects for some of the base game races (Skrolk, Queek, and Tretch have all now received something, even if in some of their cases more is probably necessary) it would appear CA is aware of these issues and is taking steps to address them where they can. With game 3 production in full swing I imagine they have less resources available to work on fixing things that are certainly a problem but aren't say making a race nearly unplayable (Greenskin's say hi). I'd definitely keep bringing up characters who need a touch up but you might be waiting for game 3 before any big changes are slotted in.

Since game 3 will be replacing game 2 in the same way game 2 replaced game 1 CA likely doesn't want to do anything too major since they may have to replace it in game 3 when new mechanics are added. One example would be updating the dwarfs again, something they could definitely use, but that CA may prefer to wait on since the update may no longer be sufficient once game 3 rolls around. Belegar was fair for his day, but now has been thoroughly outpaced by his neighbors. Fixing him just for him to fall behind in game 3 would appear inefficient.

And of course we know Malus is getting some changes in this upcoming patch so it's not like DLC characters are completely 1 and done. Hell the entire wood elf update demonstrates that being a download does not mean CA won't overhall the way something functions. Keep tabs on who needs help, bring it up to CA so they are aware of the problem, but wait for game 3 before getting out the pitchforks and torches if you're expecting huge revamps on mechanics at this point.

Rafivan

To me the cheese and the power creep are making this game too easy and broken.... they need to balance that out.

InuOkami#8640

afverrall said:

I think you massivly overstating that one side is worse in every game 2 lord pack and I think this melodramatic appoach harms ate chances to legtimatly heard by ca.

With the game 1 packs I have more tespect for what your saying volkmar has nothing really other than decent flagullents and belengar has nothing.

I don't understand why you say that's mellodramatic when i just put out my thoughts in a respectful manner. Not being rude here, just don't agree that i'm being unfair or anything to them.

InuOkami#8640

Spellbound55 said:

coury97 said:

Hey folks, just wanted to adress a concerning problem for me and many others (from what i've seen both on these forums, on reddit, on youtube, etc.) on this games and it's DLCs. Recently we saw a little bit of a change on how CA takes feedback into account. They started tweaking stuff previous to the releases and on previous feedback on the consecuent patches more and making it public on forums or reddit. This has been very good recieved, and i appreciate that they take this little details into account.

But, and of course it has to be a but, there is still a big concern on badly done characters, factions, mechanics, design, animations, models, etc, that are all from previous DLCs. What do i mean by this?

As we all know and clearly see, even the folks at CA, from all the Lord Packs of WH2, there has always been a winner except for Allariele and Helleborn: Ikkit Claw, Markus Wulfhart, Snickh, Grom the Paunch, and now Throt the Unclean. And we can see too that some of the old DLCs for WH1 that were lord packs, also suffered from it not being touched up (Belegar and Volkmar, mostly). What this means is that the counterpart for them has been given an after-thought kind of treatment in regards to both campaign mechanics, and overall campaign experience.

So how for long are going to have them in this state? In their reworks, the old world races got an update on almost all their characters and factions too. When you revisit something, you make it good, and they did a good job until now, but what's gonna happen with the DLCs for this game? Are we going to have to pay for another DLC to make a side of the Lord Pack worth it on WH3?

And this aren't obscure characters we're talking about, the most famous i think would be Malus Darkblade, has an entire saga of books for him, and the representation in this game, playing as him, is just bad design, no other way to put it.

I understand someone can't work for free, that's why we get DLCs, so that we can have the Old World Updates. But what happens when there is bad design choices for extra paid content? You just leave it like that because you can't work for free? No, they shouldn't. I know it might sound bad but they should go out of their way and at least once per patch, revisit one of the Legendary Lords of those DLC and make them worth it, make their implementation something good. Why is it that these DLCs (that are often noticed right off the bath that are half-baked) doesn't get touched up?

The size of the new content team might be the factor here, i know, because everything must have been moved at least 2 years ago to the WH3 team, but you can't do the touch and go treatment with content that is supposed to be part of a 10 year long project series that will merge together in one final game.


Please reconsider moving the team from WH3 out once it's released, or at least keep a substantial amount of the team working around with the new content team so that the pace is not as bad as it's been on these past few years for both patches and DLCs releases.

Considering that they've touched up a variety of characters in this patch who hadn't been adjusted previously, and that they'll be making improvements to campaign mechanics and effects for some of the base game races (Skrolk, Queek, and Tretch have all now received something, even if in some of their cases more is probably necessary) it would appear CA is aware of these issues and is taking steps to address them where they can. With game 3 production in full swing I imagine they have less resources available to work on fixing things that are certainly a problem but aren't say making a race nearly unplayable (Greenskin's say hi). I'd definitely keep bringing up characters who need a touch up but you might be waiting for game 3 before any big changes are slotted in.

Since game 3 will be replacing game 2 in the same way game 2 replaced game 1 CA likely doesn't want to do anything too major since they may have to replace it in game 3 when new mechanics are added. One example would be updating the dwarfs again, something they could definitely use, but that CA may prefer to wait on since the update may no longer be sufficient once game 3 rolls around. Belegar was fair for his day, but now has been thoroughly outpaced by his neighbors. Fixing him just for him to fall behind in game 3 would appear inefficient.

And of course we know Malus is getting some changes in this upcoming patch so it's not like DLC characters are completely 1 and done. Hell the entire wood elf update demonstrates that being a download does not mean CA won't overhall the way something functions. Keep tabs on who needs help, bring it up to CA so they are aware of the problem, but wait for game 3 before getting out the pitchforks and torches if you're expecting huge revamps on mechanics at this point.

Yeah i don't want them to get outdated again by a huge margin, i get that. But it's a concern tbf, because to me when something is released and it doesn't work well, i expect them to fix it next patch, because later down the line it becomes more and more difficult, with every patch it passes, to update them or change it. That's what i don't understand.

Why not touch up and make the changes required to the previous guy who got the end short of the stick before starting the next DLC, since the feedback is almost instantly the moment the community see gameplay, and mechanics are known before the release date. Now i don't expect them to fix them between announcement and release date, but yes with the following patch. That's what i don't like and don't understand.

Bloodydagger#9716

Rafivan said:

To me the cheese and the power creep are making this game too easy and broken.... they need to balance that out.

They are. Why do you think they are reworking wh1 races for? Hint; its for a reason lol 😆

FonRestorff#9571

They are updating Malus this patch so hardly a one take and move on.

My guess is that Nakai will be updated when they work on a horde faction like beastmen.

It's not just hours and money that's the problem - this is creative work and the results will be varied unless you go for something super formulaic and boring.