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IMO, Cathay might be added mostly to grab the Chinese audience.

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  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 24,611
    ROMOBOY said:

    JungleElf said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    I’m pretty sure Chinese people don’t need to see their culture given the Warhammer treatment to buy the game. I’ve never understood this concept.

    "need" vs "want". And "buy" vs "buy in larger numbers".

    Whether or not you personally agree with the concept I think in general the idea that people are more likely to purchase a game if they can see themselves in it. Certainly it's something that's been around for decades. More specific to China I can certainly see it. I'd be interested to know the cold, hard data, but from what I know of China I can definitely see Cathay drawing more numbers than it otherwise would.
    Okay but let’s think about it this way. Are they (with GW’s approval) willing to spend a large amount of money and time in making an entire race from the ground up, just for the chance of attracting more Chinese consumers? It’s already gonna sell well in China. So what’s the point?
    What's the point? I thought that was fairly obvious; So it sells better than it would otherwise.

    You're also assuming it would be costly to make Cathay. I see it as actually pretty darn easy and cheap. The lore we have on them outlines a decent roster. even ignoring what GW might have that it didn't release they could easily make a roster from that with a couple additions. 2 LL's, 2 Heroes, 20ish units of mostly humans and Cavalry.
    How are they hypothetically cheap? They might actually be the most expensive one, as CA would need to draw up new concept arts, work in tandem with GW for approval and even design the culture from the ground up. Then it also needs its own unique campaign mechanics like any other faction and presumably a large dose of monstrous units to set it apart from the other human factions. Even its map-locations need to be fleshed-out. So, no, it will most certainly not be cheap if it's included at all. Almost everything needs to be made from scratch, no models for inspiration, nothing.

    It's just not happening with CA's recent statements and the like. They're far too busy with the core stuff, and even that's far from finished.
    I'm confused. You ask how they can be cheap then claim they need a "large dose of monstrous units", something they absolutely don't. If you add expensive things into a roster of course it'll be expensive.
    Because in the very little lore that Cathay has, it specifically states “Many strange creatures are said to live in the land of Cathay, from serpentine dragons to gigantic living stone dogs which guard the temples of the multitudinous gods of Cathay.”
    Half the content, half the price.
    Kia Kaha and C'est La Vie Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.

    I apologize in advance/currently for everything I say between 15/04 and probably 29/04
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,092
    JungleElf said:

    Draxynnic said:

    JungleElf said:

    JungleElf said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    I’m pretty sure Chinese people don’t need to see their culture given the Warhammer treatment to buy the game. I’ve never understood this concept.

    "need" vs "want". And "buy" vs "buy in larger numbers".

    Whether or not you personally agree with the concept I think in general the idea that people are more likely to purchase a game if they can see themselves in it. Certainly it's something that's been around for decades. More specific to China I can certainly see it. I'd be interested to know the cold, hard data, but from what I know of China I can definitely see Cathay drawing more numbers than it otherwise would.
    Okay but let’s think about it this way. Are they (with GW’s approval) willing to spend a large amount of money and time in making an entire race from the ground up, just for the chance of attracting more Chinese consumers? It’s already gonna sell well in China. So what’s the point?
    What's the point? I thought that was fairly obvious; So it sells better than it would otherwise.

    You're also assuming it would be costly to make Cathay. I see it as actually pretty darn easy and cheap. The lore we have on them outlines a decent roster. even ignoring what GW might have that it didn't release they could easily make a roster from that with a couple additions. 2 LL's, 2 Heroes, 20ish units of mostly humans and Cavalry.
    How are they hypothetically cheap? They might actually be the most expensive one, as CA would need to draw up new concept arts, work in tandem with GW for approval and even design the culture from the ground up. Then it also needs its own unique campaign mechanics like any other faction and presumably a large dose of monstrous units to set it apart from the other human factions. Even its map-locations need to be fleshed-out. So, no, it will most certainly not be cheap if it's included at all. Almost everything needs to be made from scratch, no models for inspiration, nothing.

    It's just not happening with CA's recent statements and the like. They're far too busy with the core stuff, and even that's far from finished.
    I'm confused. You ask how they can be cheap then claim they need a "large dose of monstrous units", something they absolutely don't. If you add expensive things into a roster of course it'll be expensive. As to your question I answered it in the comment you quoted.

    Yes they need to draw up concepts but that's how CA works, everything gets a concept. And they've just spent years working on Fantasy China. It's hardly a new or unfamiliar concept for them. Mechanics, CA's got a library of them now, pick a couple. And the map? It should extend to Cathay at the minimum anyway. Game 2 covered half the world, I don't see why game 3 can't cover a much smaller portion of the world than game 2.
    Half of the written inspiration for Cathay comes from the Tamurkhan book mentioning lots of monstrous units, like Oni-like Ogres, Raven statues, Jade warriors, Heavenly dragons, etc. Also, 3K art is not applicable to Warhammer and the concept art of other established factions is based on the miniatures (they paint themself) and art of GW, making the work a bit easier for them as there already are concept arts to work with.

    Cathay doesn't have that. And we haven't even been promised the full map (which is ludicrous, anyway).

    You're really downplaying the work it would cost. A lot.
    From an animation perspective, possibly not. What we're looking at are likely things that can be modelled on existing rigs - ogres (will be needed for Ogre Kingdoms anyway), birdlike winged humanoid (between harpies, Furies, and the Lord of Change, there'd be something), terracotta soldiers would be on a humanoid rig (not sure where you're getting jade warriors from) and dragons would probably use the dragon rig, maybe with the wings removed but GW never established that Far East dragons were wingless as far as I recall. From an animation perspective, there are races they've already done, and daemons yet to come, that probably required more.

    There is the element that they don't have official models available, nor is there much publicly-released art, but CA does do their own concept art. The concept stage certainly would be more involved than it has been with previous races, but I don't think having a little more trial and error at the concept art stage is going to break the budget. What seems to eat up the Charlemagnes are unique rigs with complex animations, and I don't see much potential for those in what we know of the Cathayan forces.
    It would be a cheap rip-off it if was just an army of reskins. I also don't think half of those proposed reskins you wrote are that obvious. Anyway, GW would need to be heavily involved, costing a lot more. CA's statements on 'original' content are ignored by you, as well.
    Uh oh, it’s the difference between reskin, recolour, remodel etc error.
    Interested in Sea Elves? Did you just call me a simpleton?

  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 9,910
    JungleElf said:

    Draxynnic said:

    JungleElf said:

    Draxynnic said:

    JungleElf said:

    JungleElf said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    I’m pretty sure Chinese people don’t need to see their culture given the Warhammer treatment to buy the game. I’ve never understood this concept.

    "need" vs "want". And "buy" vs "buy in larger numbers".

    Whether or not you personally agree with the concept I think in general the idea that people are more likely to purchase a game if they can see themselves in it. Certainly it's something that's been around for decades. More specific to China I can certainly see it. I'd be interested to know the cold, hard data, but from what I know of China I can definitely see Cathay drawing more numbers than it otherwise would.
    Okay but let’s think about it this way. Are they (with GW’s approval) willing to spend a large amount of money and time in making an entire race from the ground up, just for the chance of attracting more Chinese consumers? It’s already gonna sell well in China. So what’s the point?
    What's the point? I thought that was fairly obvious; So it sells better than it would otherwise.

    You're also assuming it would be costly to make Cathay. I see it as actually pretty darn easy and cheap. The lore we have on them outlines a decent roster. even ignoring what GW might have that it didn't release they could easily make a roster from that with a couple additions. 2 LL's, 2 Heroes, 20ish units of mostly humans and Cavalry.
    How are they hypothetically cheap? They might actually be the most expensive one, as CA would need to draw up new concept arts, work in tandem with GW for approval and even design the culture from the ground up. Then it also needs its own unique campaign mechanics like any other faction and presumably a large dose of monstrous units to set it apart from the other human factions. Even its map-locations need to be fleshed-out. So, no, it will most certainly not be cheap if it's included at all. Almost everything needs to be made from scratch, no models for inspiration, nothing.

    It's just not happening with CA's recent statements and the like. They're far too busy with the core stuff, and even that's far from finished.
    I'm confused. You ask how they can be cheap then claim they need a "large dose of monstrous units", something they absolutely don't. If you add expensive things into a roster of course it'll be expensive. As to your question I answered it in the comment you quoted.

    Yes they need to draw up concepts but that's how CA works, everything gets a concept. And they've just spent years working on Fantasy China. It's hardly a new or unfamiliar concept for them. Mechanics, CA's got a library of them now, pick a couple. And the map? It should extend to Cathay at the minimum anyway. Game 2 covered half the world, I don't see why game 3 can't cover a much smaller portion of the world than game 2.
    Half of the written inspiration for Cathay comes from the Tamurkhan book mentioning lots of monstrous units, like Oni-like Ogres, Raven statues, Jade warriors, Heavenly dragons, etc. Also, 3K art is not applicable to Warhammer and the concept art of other established factions is based on the miniatures (they paint themself) and art of GW, making the work a bit easier for them as there already are concept arts to work with.

    Cathay doesn't have that. And we haven't even been promised the full map (which is ludicrous, anyway).

    You're really downplaying the work it would cost. A lot.
    From an animation perspective, possibly not. What we're looking at are likely things that can be modelled on existing rigs - ogres (will be needed for Ogre Kingdoms anyway), birdlike winged humanoid (between harpies, Furies, and the Lord of Change, there'd be something), terracotta soldiers would be on a humanoid rig (not sure where you're getting jade warriors from) and dragons would probably use the dragon rig, maybe with the wings removed but GW never established that Far East dragons were wingless as far as I recall. From an animation perspective, there are races they've already done, and daemons yet to come, that probably required more.

    There is the element that they don't have official models available, nor is there much publicly-released art, but CA does do their own concept art. The concept stage certainly would be more involved than it has been with previous races, but I don't think having a little more trial and error at the concept art stage is going to break the budget. What seems to eat up the Charlemagnes are unique rigs with complex animations, and I don't see much potential for those in what we know of the Cathayan forces.
    It would be a cheap rip-off it if was just an army of reskins. I also don't think half of those proposed reskins you wrote are that obvious. Anyway, GW would need to be heavily involved, costing a lot more. CA's statements on 'original' content are ignored by you, as well.
    There's a big difference between 'using a common rig' and 'reskin'. A one-horned ogre would have a different model to a 'regular' ogre (it'll have that horn, after all), but with the possible exception of having a special animation for using that horn as a weapon, it'd have the same animations as a regular ogre (and even then, I wouldn't be surprised to see ogres getting a headbutt animation in general). Why reinvent the wheel?

    Same for all the rest. Reusing rigs, where reasonably practical, is standard practice in the industry. I've known companies who've reused rigs with new animations and a completely different stance that you'd never know they were on the same rig if they hadn't told the fanbase that they are. Why? Because even with mostly new animations, putting new animations on an existing rig is a lot cheaper than starting from scratch.

    And in this case... they wouldn't need all that much in the way of additional animations. An ogre with a horn is still an ogre. A humanoid is still a humanoid (I'm pretty sure elves and humans are on the same rig, even if they have different animations). Winged humanoids both with arms and without are already in the game. If you think CA creates and animates every separate unit from scratch when there are existing rigs with animations that's close to what they're making, there's a bridge in London I'd like to sell you. The design phase would take a little longer and cost a little more, to be sure, but there's nothing in the animation that's likely to pull out the Charlemagnes.

    With regards to statements - the most definitive (apart from the discussion about fanmade stuff, which doesn't apply since there is official Cathay material) are the comments they've made about Clylostra, which was a case of creating a character that had never been mentioned or even hinted at in the fluff.
    Exactly; More expansive. It seems we agree on that part! Anyway, the Cylostra comment would also apply to Cathay, seeing how they only have some vague character mentions and no actual models or statblocks to base Lords on. It was also regarding the new Bretonnian units, which according to CA was already quite the stretch.
    More expensive in the design phase, but relatively cheap in the implementation phase, which is generally the more expensive part by a considerable margin. All up, it'd probably be cheaper than races like the Skaven, Tomb Kings, and Vampire Coast. There's nothing in there that would be the equivalent of a Jabberslythe, Hydra, or Hellpit Abomination.
    ROMOBOY said:

    JungleElf said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    I’m pretty sure Chinese people don’t need to see their culture given the Warhammer treatment to buy the game. I’ve never understood this concept.

    "need" vs "want". And "buy" vs "buy in larger numbers".

    Whether or not you personally agree with the concept I think in general the idea that people are more likely to purchase a game if they can see themselves in it. Certainly it's something that's been around for decades. More specific to China I can certainly see it. I'd be interested to know the cold, hard data, but from what I know of China I can definitely see Cathay drawing more numbers than it otherwise would.
    Okay but let’s think about it this way. Are they (with GW’s approval) willing to spend a large amount of money and time in making an entire race from the ground up, just for the chance of attracting more Chinese consumers? It’s already gonna sell well in China. So what’s the point?
    What's the point? I thought that was fairly obvious; So it sells better than it would otherwise.

    You're also assuming it would be costly to make Cathay. I see it as actually pretty darn easy and cheap. The lore we have on them outlines a decent roster. even ignoring what GW might have that it didn't release they could easily make a roster from that with a couple additions. 2 LL's, 2 Heroes, 20ish units of mostly humans and Cavalry.
    How are they hypothetically cheap? They might actually be the most expensive one, as CA would need to draw up new concept arts, work in tandem with GW for approval and even design the culture from the ground up. Then it also needs its own unique campaign mechanics like any other faction and presumably a large dose of monstrous units to set it apart from the other human factions. Even its map-locations need to be fleshed-out. So, no, it will most certainly not be cheap if it's included at all. Almost everything needs to be made from scratch, no models for inspiration, nothing.

    It's just not happening with CA's recent statements and the like. They're far too busy with the core stuff, and even that's far from finished.
    I'm confused. You ask how they can be cheap then claim they need a "large dose of monstrous units", something they absolutely don't. If you add expensive things into a roster of course it'll be expensive.
    Because in the very little lore that Cathay has, it specifically states “Many strange creatures are said to live in the land of Cathay, from serpentine dragons to gigantic living stone dogs which guard the temples of the multitudinous gods of Cathay.”
    Dragons and dogs are both already in the game. As are lions, if they choose to go with that interpretation. Repurposing existing rigs to fit Cathayan dragons and stone dogs would not be hard.
  • JungleElfJungleElf Registered Users Posts: 3,817

    JungleElf said:

    Draxynnic said:

    JungleElf said:

    JungleElf said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    I’m pretty sure Chinese people don’t need to see their culture given the Warhammer treatment to buy the game. I’ve never understood this concept.

    "need" vs "want". And "buy" vs "buy in larger numbers".

    Whether or not you personally agree with the concept I think in general the idea that people are more likely to purchase a game if they can see themselves in it. Certainly it's something that's been around for decades. More specific to China I can certainly see it. I'd be interested to know the cold, hard data, but from what I know of China I can definitely see Cathay drawing more numbers than it otherwise would.
    Okay but let’s think about it this way. Are they (with GW’s approval) willing to spend a large amount of money and time in making an entire race from the ground up, just for the chance of attracting more Chinese consumers? It’s already gonna sell well in China. So what’s the point?
    What's the point? I thought that was fairly obvious; So it sells better than it would otherwise.

    You're also assuming it would be costly to make Cathay. I see it as actually pretty darn easy and cheap. The lore we have on them outlines a decent roster. even ignoring what GW might have that it didn't release they could easily make a roster from that with a couple additions. 2 LL's, 2 Heroes, 20ish units of mostly humans and Cavalry.
    How are they hypothetically cheap? They might actually be the most expensive one, as CA would need to draw up new concept arts, work in tandem with GW for approval and even design the culture from the ground up. Then it also needs its own unique campaign mechanics like any other faction and presumably a large dose of monstrous units to set it apart from the other human factions. Even its map-locations need to be fleshed-out. So, no, it will most certainly not be cheap if it's included at all. Almost everything needs to be made from scratch, no models for inspiration, nothing.

    It's just not happening with CA's recent statements and the like. They're far too busy with the core stuff, and even that's far from finished.
    I'm confused. You ask how they can be cheap then claim they need a "large dose of monstrous units", something they absolutely don't. If you add expensive things into a roster of course it'll be expensive. As to your question I answered it in the comment you quoted.

    Yes they need to draw up concepts but that's how CA works, everything gets a concept. And they've just spent years working on Fantasy China. It's hardly a new or unfamiliar concept for them. Mechanics, CA's got a library of them now, pick a couple. And the map? It should extend to Cathay at the minimum anyway. Game 2 covered half the world, I don't see why game 3 can't cover a much smaller portion of the world than game 2.
    Half of the written inspiration for Cathay comes from the Tamurkhan book mentioning lots of monstrous units, like Oni-like Ogres, Raven statues, Jade warriors, Heavenly dragons, etc. Also, 3K art is not applicable to Warhammer and the concept art of other established factions is based on the miniatures (they paint themself) and art of GW, making the work a bit easier for them as there already are concept arts to work with.

    Cathay doesn't have that. And we haven't even been promised the full map (which is ludicrous, anyway).

    You're really downplaying the work it would cost. A lot.
    From an animation perspective, possibly not. What we're looking at are likely things that can be modelled on existing rigs - ogres (will be needed for Ogre Kingdoms anyway), birdlike winged humanoid (between harpies, Furies, and the Lord of Change, there'd be something), terracotta soldiers would be on a humanoid rig (not sure where you're getting jade warriors from) and dragons would probably use the dragon rig, maybe with the wings removed but GW never established that Far East dragons were wingless as far as I recall. From an animation perspective, there are races they've already done, and daemons yet to come, that probably required more.

    There is the element that they don't have official models available, nor is there much publicly-released art, but CA does do their own concept art. The concept stage certainly would be more involved than it has been with previous races, but I don't think having a little more trial and error at the concept art stage is going to break the budget. What seems to eat up the Charlemagnes are unique rigs with complex animations, and I don't see much potential for those in what we know of the Cathayan forces.
    It would be a cheap rip-off it if was just an army of reskins. I also don't think half of those proposed reskins you wrote are that obvious. Anyway, GW would need to be heavily involved, costing a lot more. CA's statements on 'original' content are ignored by you, as well.
    Uh oh, it’s the difference between reskin, recolour, remodel etc error.
    He was talking about re-using skelwtons, so I talked about re-used skeletons. I know the differences, get out of here. Major factions have always had some unique rigs and skeletons, you guys saying Cathay can do without is pure nonsense catering towards your own fantasy of the faction.
  • ROMOBOYROMOBOY Registered Users Posts: 3,632
    @Draxynnic

    I mean, there’s more. Giant jade lions, monkey warriors, terra-cotta armies. And they’re serpentine dragons. They won’t look Tolkien style like the ones in game now.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

    Cathay > Chaos Dwarfs = Pain

    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,092
    JungleElf said:

    JungleElf said:

    Draxynnic said:

    JungleElf said:

    JungleElf said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    I’m pretty sure Chinese people don’t need to see their culture given the Warhammer treatment to buy the game. I’ve never understood this concept.

    "need" vs "want". And "buy" vs "buy in larger numbers".

    Whether or not you personally agree with the concept I think in general the idea that people are more likely to purchase a game if they can see themselves in it. Certainly it's something that's been around for decades. More specific to China I can certainly see it. I'd be interested to know the cold, hard data, but from what I know of China I can definitely see Cathay drawing more numbers than it otherwise would.
    Okay but let’s think about it this way. Are they (with GW’s approval) willing to spend a large amount of money and time in making an entire race from the ground up, just for the chance of attracting more Chinese consumers? It’s already gonna sell well in China. So what’s the point?
    What's the point? I thought that was fairly obvious; So it sells better than it would otherwise.

    You're also assuming it would be costly to make Cathay. I see it as actually pretty darn easy and cheap. The lore we have on them outlines a decent roster. even ignoring what GW might have that it didn't release they could easily make a roster from that with a couple additions. 2 LL's, 2 Heroes, 20ish units of mostly humans and Cavalry.
    How are they hypothetically cheap? They might actually be the most expensive one, as CA would need to draw up new concept arts, work in tandem with GW for approval and even design the culture from the ground up. Then it also needs its own unique campaign mechanics like any other faction and presumably a large dose of monstrous units to set it apart from the other human factions. Even its map-locations need to be fleshed-out. So, no, it will most certainly not be cheap if it's included at all. Almost everything needs to be made from scratch, no models for inspiration, nothing.

    It's just not happening with CA's recent statements and the like. They're far too busy with the core stuff, and even that's far from finished.
    I'm confused. You ask how they can be cheap then claim they need a "large dose of monstrous units", something they absolutely don't. If you add expensive things into a roster of course it'll be expensive. As to your question I answered it in the comment you quoted.

    Yes they need to draw up concepts but that's how CA works, everything gets a concept. And they've just spent years working on Fantasy China. It's hardly a new or unfamiliar concept for them. Mechanics, CA's got a library of them now, pick a couple. And the map? It should extend to Cathay at the minimum anyway. Game 2 covered half the world, I don't see why game 3 can't cover a much smaller portion of the world than game 2.
    Half of the written inspiration for Cathay comes from the Tamurkhan book mentioning lots of monstrous units, like Oni-like Ogres, Raven statues, Jade warriors, Heavenly dragons, etc. Also, 3K art is not applicable to Warhammer and the concept art of other established factions is based on the miniatures (they paint themself) and art of GW, making the work a bit easier for them as there already are concept arts to work with.

    Cathay doesn't have that. And we haven't even been promised the full map (which is ludicrous, anyway).

    You're really downplaying the work it would cost. A lot.
    From an animation perspective, possibly not. What we're looking at are likely things that can be modelled on existing rigs - ogres (will be needed for Ogre Kingdoms anyway), birdlike winged humanoid (between harpies, Furies, and the Lord of Change, there'd be something), terracotta soldiers would be on a humanoid rig (not sure where you're getting jade warriors from) and dragons would probably use the dragon rig, maybe with the wings removed but GW never established that Far East dragons were wingless as far as I recall. From an animation perspective, there are races they've already done, and daemons yet to come, that probably required more.

    There is the element that they don't have official models available, nor is there much publicly-released art, but CA does do their own concept art. The concept stage certainly would be more involved than it has been with previous races, but I don't think having a little more trial and error at the concept art stage is going to break the budget. What seems to eat up the Charlemagnes are unique rigs with complex animations, and I don't see much potential for those in what we know of the Cathayan forces.
    It would be a cheap rip-off it if was just an army of reskins. I also don't think half of those proposed reskins you wrote are that obvious. Anyway, GW would need to be heavily involved, costing a lot more. CA's statements on 'original' content are ignored by you, as well.
    Uh oh, it’s the difference between reskin, recolour, remodel etc error.
    He was talking about re-using skelwtons, so I talked about re-used skeletons. I know the differences, get out of here. Major factions have always had some unique rigs and skeletons, you guys saying Cathay can do without is pure nonsense catering towards your own fantasy of the faction.
    You used the term reskins which is nothing like using skeletons as they can look completely different. A reskin is not changing the model directly which would be very easy but it would be nothing to do with what was being talked about.
    Interested in Sea Elves? Did you just call me a simpleton?

  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,092
    Just one thing about this 'but it's not 3k' argument that keeps coming up:

    -I imagine that there are a lot of Chinese fantasy series which are popular within China

    -I imagine that a lot of these fantasies have an element of 3k in them anyway, in the same way Bretonnia has elements to it based on the classic tales in English and French culture

    -By bringing in Chinese creators from NetEase, they are qualified to align any Cathay faction with what is currently popular in Chinese culture while working with GW to keep that authentic WH look.

    The argument 'Cathay not 3k = bad' isn't a useful or well thought out argument.
    Interested in Sea Elves? Did you just call me a simpleton?

  • JungleElfJungleElf Registered Users Posts: 3,817

    Just one thing about this 'but it's not 3k' argument that keeps coming up:

    -I imagine that there are a lot of Chinese fantasy series which are popular within China

    -I imagine that a lot of these fantasies have an element of 3k in them anyway, in the same way Bretonnia has elements to it based on the classic tales in English and French culture

    -By bringing in Chinese creators from NetEase, they are qualified to align any Cathay faction with what is currently popular in Chinese culture while working with GW to keep that authentic WH look.

    The argument 'Cathay not 3k = bad' isn't a useful or well thought out argument.

    Warhammer isn't Age of Mythology. It needs to be tethered to the existing material and have that Warhammer 'feel' to it.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,092
    JungleElf said:

    Just one thing about this 'but it's not 3k' argument that keeps coming up:

    -I imagine that there are a lot of Chinese fantasy series which are popular within China

    -I imagine that a lot of these fantasies have an element of 3k in them anyway, in the same way Bretonnia has elements to it based on the classic tales in English and French culture

    -By bringing in Chinese creators from NetEase, they are qualified to align any Cathay faction with what is currently popular in Chinese culture while working with GW to keep that authentic WH look.

    The argument 'Cathay not 3k = bad' isn't a useful or well thought out argument.

    Warhammer isn't Age of Mythology. It needs to be tethered to the existing material and have that Warhammer 'feel' to it.
    As I've said, all the factions within WH usually share a history with a real world nation or culture, some more obvious than others. Please don't think WHFB is top tier writing here because the early design certainly wasn't. Each faction shares a history with the real life counterparts and takes from major works from each culture. There's no reason why Cathay wouldn't take from 3k and other popular periods and stories within Chinese culture, in fact that's the norm of WH writing - Marco Colombo anyone?
    Interested in Sea Elves? Did you just call me a simpleton?

  • LunaticprinceLunaticprince Registered Users Posts: 2,151
    Anyway where is comes "Cathay" have enough to work with?

    Bretonnia literally have the almost same level of lore things left and Ritch already talk about that all they can do for the fighter of the Lady.

    So how the blurr of lore loaf gonna be a easy direction to follow but not something like Questing Beasts for ca?


    Of course theoritical, Lizardman and Skaven are more expensive faction in theory but!

    First they rosters was pretty butchered and need multiple lord packs to be truly fun.

    Second: Again coming with something on your own is still harder to do as something you have a direction.

    Cathay have not except we just pic anything from chinese history and 3k.

    Was make for me the faction pretty uninspired.

    Third: where is (more chinese gonna buy it)

    Lel is the same logic as if someone say, araby would totaly bring persia, araby and turks to this franchise....

    But it seems gw and ca not saw this potential this faction will bring and it have literally a warmaster army book and a clear direction!

    They would have work perfectly as pre orde race but they are now killed off.

    So Which chance such a faction lore blub that is cathay have then more chance then?

    When not even minor faction with something to work with aren't even considered?
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 9,910
    JungleElf said:

    JungleElf said:

    Draxynnic said:

    JungleElf said:

    JungleElf said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    I’m pretty sure Chinese people don’t need to see their culture given the Warhammer treatment to buy the game. I’ve never understood this concept.

    "need" vs "want". And "buy" vs "buy in larger numbers".

    Whether or not you personally agree with the concept I think in general the idea that people are more likely to purchase a game if they can see themselves in it. Certainly it's something that's been around for decades. More specific to China I can certainly see it. I'd be interested to know the cold, hard data, but from what I know of China I can definitely see Cathay drawing more numbers than it otherwise would.
    Okay but let’s think about it this way. Are they (with GW’s approval) willing to spend a large amount of money and time in making an entire race from the ground up, just for the chance of attracting more Chinese consumers? It’s already gonna sell well in China. So what’s the point?
    What's the point? I thought that was fairly obvious; So it sells better than it would otherwise.

    You're also assuming it would be costly to make Cathay. I see it as actually pretty darn easy and cheap. The lore we have on them outlines a decent roster. even ignoring what GW might have that it didn't release they could easily make a roster from that with a couple additions. 2 LL's, 2 Heroes, 20ish units of mostly humans and Cavalry.
    How are they hypothetically cheap? They might actually be the most expensive one, as CA would need to draw up new concept arts, work in tandem with GW for approval and even design the culture from the ground up. Then it also needs its own unique campaign mechanics like any other faction and presumably a large dose of monstrous units to set it apart from the other human factions. Even its map-locations need to be fleshed-out. So, no, it will most certainly not be cheap if it's included at all. Almost everything needs to be made from scratch, no models for inspiration, nothing.

    It's just not happening with CA's recent statements and the like. They're far too busy with the core stuff, and even that's far from finished.
    I'm confused. You ask how they can be cheap then claim they need a "large dose of monstrous units", something they absolutely don't. If you add expensive things into a roster of course it'll be expensive. As to your question I answered it in the comment you quoted.

    Yes they need to draw up concepts but that's how CA works, everything gets a concept. And they've just spent years working on Fantasy China. It's hardly a new or unfamiliar concept for them. Mechanics, CA's got a library of them now, pick a couple. And the map? It should extend to Cathay at the minimum anyway. Game 2 covered half the world, I don't see why game 3 can't cover a much smaller portion of the world than game 2.
    Half of the written inspiration for Cathay comes from the Tamurkhan book mentioning lots of monstrous units, like Oni-like Ogres, Raven statues, Jade warriors, Heavenly dragons, etc. Also, 3K art is not applicable to Warhammer and the concept art of other established factions is based on the miniatures (they paint themself) and art of GW, making the work a bit easier for them as there already are concept arts to work with.

    Cathay doesn't have that. And we haven't even been promised the full map (which is ludicrous, anyway).

    You're really downplaying the work it would cost. A lot.
    From an animation perspective, possibly not. What we're looking at are likely things that can be modelled on existing rigs - ogres (will be needed for Ogre Kingdoms anyway), birdlike winged humanoid (between harpies, Furies, and the Lord of Change, there'd be something), terracotta soldiers would be on a humanoid rig (not sure where you're getting jade warriors from) and dragons would probably use the dragon rig, maybe with the wings removed but GW never established that Far East dragons were wingless as far as I recall. From an animation perspective, there are races they've already done, and daemons yet to come, that probably required more.

    There is the element that they don't have official models available, nor is there much publicly-released art, but CA does do their own concept art. The concept stage certainly would be more involved than it has been with previous races, but I don't think having a little more trial and error at the concept art stage is going to break the budget. What seems to eat up the Charlemagnes are unique rigs with complex animations, and I don't see much potential for those in what we know of the Cathayan forces.
    It would be a cheap rip-off it if was just an army of reskins. I also don't think half of those proposed reskins you wrote are that obvious. Anyway, GW would need to be heavily involved, costing a lot more. CA's statements on 'original' content are ignored by you, as well.
    Uh oh, it’s the difference between reskin, recolour, remodel etc error.
    He was talking about re-using skelwtons, so I talked about re-used skeletons. I know the differences, get out of here. Major factions have always had some unique rigs and skeletons, you guys saying Cathay can do without is pure nonsense catering towards your own fantasy of the faction.
    High Elves had no unique rig until their second DLC, and I'm not completely sure the War Lion isn't a modification of an existing rig. Everything else is human, dragon, eagle, horse, chariot body, and bolt thrower. Each of those rigs existed in TWW1.

    Unique rigs are only needed if existing rigs can't do the job. No animation studio will waste money creating a new rig when an existing one can do the job.
    ROMOBOY said:

    @Draxynnic

    I mean, there’s more. Giant jade lions, monkey warriors, terra-cotta armies. And they’re serpentine dragons. They won’t look Tolkien style like the ones in game now.

    A lion rig exists. Terracotta warriors are just humans with a ceramic texture from a technical standpoint. Warhammer dragons are already pretty serpentine and I don't think Cathayan dragons have ever been specified to be wingless (depictions of Cathayan dragons have been mistaken for High Elf artifacts or for Sotek, which is a data point each way), but the undulating motion of dragons in flight would fit even wingless Asian dragons well enough. Remove the wings, modify a few animations - they don't need to start from scratch there.

    Monkey warriors - if the moniker is literal - might require a new rig. But I don't imagine it'd be harder than the Skaven rig, and there's nothing as complex as the Abomination associated with Cathay.
  • ROMOBOYROMOBOY Registered Users Posts: 3,632
    @Draxynnic

    The Jade lion would need an entirely new rig. It’s not just a lion with a jade texture slapped on it. Also there’s more than model design to make a race. You’re forgetting about all the fluffing they’ll have to do to even add Cathay.

    All the items, skills, followers, traits, lore blurbs, landmarks, buildings, etc... will have to be made from scratch.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

    Cathay > Chaos Dwarfs = Pain

    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 19,449
    edited December 2020
    JungleElf said:

    Just one thing about this 'but it's not 3k' argument that keeps coming up:

    -I imagine that there are a lot of Chinese fantasy series which are popular within China

    -I imagine that a lot of these fantasies have an element of 3k in them anyway, in the same way Bretonnia has elements to it based on the classic tales in English and French culture

    -By bringing in Chinese creators from NetEase, they are qualified to align any Cathay faction with what is currently popular in Chinese culture while working with GW to keep that authentic WH look.

    The argument 'Cathay not 3k = bad' isn't a useful or well thought out argument.

    Warhammer isn't Age of Mythology. It needs to be tethered to the existing material and have that Warhammer 'feel' to it.
    Hmm let’s see...

    Greek Mythology:
    - Gryphons
    - Minotaurs
    - Centaurs
    - Satyr
    - Hydras
    - Kharybdis
    - Medusa
    - Basilisk
    - Amazons
    - Phoenix
    - Sirens

    Persian/Iranian Mythology:
    - Manticore

    Assyrian Mythology:
    - Lamasu

    Celtic/Nordic/Germanic Mythology:
    - Trolls
    - Giants
    - Dwarfs
    - Elves
    - Dryads
    - Forest Spirits
    - Dragons
    - Goblinoid creatures

    Meso American Mythologie:
    - Quetzalcoatl

    Arabic Mythology:
    - Ghouls

    Native American Mythology:
    - Vendigo

    European mythology:
    - Cockatrice
    - Ogres
    - Vampires
    - Hippogryph
    - Werewolfs
    - King Arthur
    - Hags
    - Witches

    Mongolian Mythology:
    - Death Worm (Dread Maw)

    Tibetan Mythology:
    - Yetis
    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • kelembriborkelembribor Registered Users Posts: 762
    edited December 2020
    I wouldn't mind it to be added, but not to the cost of less effort in improving WH3 mechanics, sieges and fixing previous games elements like diplomacy lines, sync kill animation between races from different games.

    Though lore needs to be fleshed out a bit, with interesting characters, terrain, but also threats. Would Dark Elves be able to attack from the East from the time of Laithikir Fellheart? Will they add eastern and northern threats like Hobgoblin Khanate or Hung tribes of Chaos? (yep GW is really inventive with names, especially funny is their alliance during Storm of Chaos with, wait for it, Morathi B) )

  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 9,910
    I've seen the Oldhammer model for the temple dogs (don't know where you're getting giant jade lions from - I think they might have been in a fanmade book, but they're not in my list of official references) It'd require a new model, possibly some new animations, but the existing feline rig is a pretty good starting point.

    Fluff is the easy part, and if they're going to go past the Mountains of Mourne at all they'll need to fill in the maps anyway.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 30,548
    This is the exact reason that gave us all the annoying kid sidekicks in comics and animation. Because kids don't think Batman is cool unless there's a little kid running around with him which they can identify with.

    Wrong then, wrong now.

  • LunaticprinceLunaticprince Registered Users Posts: 2,151
    Draxynnic said:

    I've seen the Oldhammer model for the temple dogs (don't know where you're getting giant jade lions from - I think they might have been in a fanmade book, but they're not in my list of official references) It'd require a new model, possibly some new animations, but the existing feline rig is a pretty good starting point.

    Fluff is the easy part, and if they're going to go past the Mountains of Mourne at all they'll need to fill in the maps anyway.

    I could see they use the khemri warsphinx for it?

    And even that is still have to look original to work.

    "come of with fluff is easy"

    Not really when it have to fit the world.
  • JungleElfJungleElf Registered Users Posts: 3,817
    edited December 2020
    ArneSo said:

    JungleElf said:

    Just one thing about this 'but it's not 3k' argument that keeps coming up:

    -I imagine that there are a lot of Chinese fantasy series which are popular within China

    -I imagine that a lot of these fantasies have an element of 3k in them anyway, in the same way Bretonnia has elements to it based on the classic tales in English and French culture

    -By bringing in Chinese creators from NetEase, they are qualified to align any Cathay faction with what is currently popular in Chinese culture while working with GW to keep that authentic WH look.

    The argument 'Cathay not 3k = bad' isn't a useful or well thought out argument.

    Warhammer isn't Age of Mythology. It needs to be tethered to the existing material and have that Warhammer 'feel' to it.
    Hmm let’s see...

    Greek Mythology:
    - Gryphons
    - Minotaurs
    - Centaurs
    - Satyr
    - Hydras
    - Kharybdis
    - Medusa
    - Basilisk
    - Amazons
    - Phoenix
    - Sirens

    Persian/Iranian Mythology:
    - Manticore

    Assyrian Mythology:
    - Lamasu

    Celtic/Nordic/Germanic Mythology:
    - Trolls
    - Giants
    - Dwarfs
    - Elves
    - Dryads
    - Forest Spirits
    - Dragons
    - Goblinoid creatures

    Meso American Mythologie:
    - Quetzalcoatl

    Arabic Mythology:
    - Ghouls

    Native American Mythology:
    - Vendigo

    European mythology:
    - Cockatrice
    - Ogres
    - Vampires
    - Hippogryph
    - Werewolfs
    - King Arthur
    - Hags
    - Witches

    Mongolian Mythology:
    - Death Worm (Dread Maw)

    Tibetan Mythology:
    - Yetis
    And? You think I'm daft or something? Warhammer usually gives them some distinct features or traits, unique to Warhammer. It's usually an instant recognition when it's on your screen. It's not just copypasted most of the times. It's integrated. Cathay is far from that.
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 19,449
    JungleElf said:

    ArneSo said:

    JungleElf said:

    Just one thing about this 'but it's not 3k' argument that keeps coming up:

    -I imagine that there are a lot of Chinese fantasy series which are popular within China

    -I imagine that a lot of these fantasies have an element of 3k in them anyway, in the same way Bretonnia has elements to it based on the classic tales in English and French culture

    -By bringing in Chinese creators from NetEase, they are qualified to align any Cathay faction with what is currently popular in Chinese culture while working with GW to keep that authentic WH look.

    The argument 'Cathay not 3k = bad' isn't a useful or well thought out argument.

    Warhammer isn't Age of Mythology. It needs to be tethered to the existing material and have that Warhammer 'feel' to it.
    Hmm let’s see...

    Greek Mythology:
    - Gryphons
    - Minotaurs
    - Centaurs
    - Satyr
    - Hydras
    - Kharybdis
    - Medusa
    - Basilisk
    - Amazons
    - Phoenix
    - Sirens

    Persian/Iranian Mythology:
    - Manticore

    Assyrian Mythology:
    - Lamasu

    Celtic/Nordic/Germanic Mythology:
    - Trolls
    - Giants
    - Dwarfs
    - Elves
    - Dryads
    - Forest Spirits
    - Dragons
    - Goblinoid creatures

    Meso American Mythologie:
    - Quetzalcoatl

    Arabic Mythology:
    - Ghouls

    Native American Mythology:
    - Vendigo

    European mythology:
    - Cockatrice
    - Ogres
    - Vampires
    - Hippogryph
    - Werewolfs
    - King Arthur
    - Hags
    - Witches

    Mongolian Mythology:
    - Death Worm (Dread Maw)

    Tibetan Mythology:
    - Yetis
    And? You think I'm daft or something? Warhammer usually gives them some distinct features or traits, unique to Warhammer. It's usually an instant recognition when it's on your screen. It's not just copypasted most of the times. It's integrated. Cathay is far from that.
    Every WH Race is more or less directly copied from Mythology. Warhammer is a fantasy version of our world so it’s based on our history and Mythology. Cathay if added will and should be inspired by Chinese Mythology just like every single other race was inspired by their respective mythology.

    Warhammer is no high quality fantasy. GW just took mythological creatures and stuff from LotR and called it a day.
    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,092
    JungleElf said:

    ArneSo said:

    JungleElf said:

    Just one thing about this 'but it's not 3k' argument that keeps coming up:

    -I imagine that there are a lot of Chinese fantasy series which are popular within China

    -I imagine that a lot of these fantasies have an element of 3k in them anyway, in the same way Bretonnia has elements to it based on the classic tales in English and French culture

    -By bringing in Chinese creators from NetEase, they are qualified to align any Cathay faction with what is currently popular in Chinese culture while working with GW to keep that authentic WH look.

    The argument 'Cathay not 3k = bad' isn't a useful or well thought out argument.

    Warhammer isn't Age of Mythology. It needs to be tethered to the existing material and have that Warhammer 'feel' to it.
    Hmm let’s see...

    Greek Mythology:
    - Gryphons
    - Minotaurs
    - Centaurs
    - Satyr
    - Hydras
    - Kharybdis
    - Medusa
    - Basilisk
    - Amazons
    - Phoenix
    - Sirens

    Persian/Iranian Mythology:
    - Manticore

    Assyrian Mythology:
    - Lamasu

    Celtic/Nordic/Germanic Mythology:
    - Trolls
    - Giants
    - Dwarfs
    - Elves
    - Dryads
    - Forest Spirits
    - Dragons
    - Goblinoid creatures

    Meso American Mythologie:
    - Quetzalcoatl

    Arabic Mythology:
    - Ghouls

    Native American Mythology:
    - Vendigo

    European mythology:
    - Cockatrice
    - Ogres
    - Vampires
    - Hippogryph
    - Werewolfs
    - King Arthur
    - Hags
    - Witches

    Mongolian Mythology:
    - Death Worm (Dread Maw)

    Tibetan Mythology:
    - Yetis
    And? You think I'm daft or something? Warhammer usually gives them some distinct features or traits, unique to Warhammer. It's usually an instant recognition when it's on your screen. It's not just copypasted most of the times. It's integrated. Cathay is far from that.
    I’m not sure what you’re arguing against here. Whether your point is true or not it doesn’t change the fact that Cathay can draw strongly from popular Chinese culture. Doesn’t it require Warhammer (isms) as well? Of course, but no one argued against that.
    Interested in Sea Elves? Did you just call me a simpleton?

  • JungleElfJungleElf Registered Users Posts: 3,817

    JungleElf said:

    ArneSo said:

    JungleElf said:

    Just one thing about this 'but it's not 3k' argument that keeps coming up:

    -I imagine that there are a lot of Chinese fantasy series which are popular within China

    -I imagine that a lot of these fantasies have an element of 3k in them anyway, in the same way Bretonnia has elements to it based on the classic tales in English and French culture

    -By bringing in Chinese creators from NetEase, they are qualified to align any Cathay faction with what is currently popular in Chinese culture while working with GW to keep that authentic WH look.

    The argument 'Cathay not 3k = bad' isn't a useful or well thought out argument.

    Warhammer isn't Age of Mythology. It needs to be tethered to the existing material and have that Warhammer 'feel' to it.
    Hmm let’s see...

    Greek Mythology:
    - Gryphons
    - Minotaurs
    - Centaurs
    - Satyr
    - Hydras
    - Kharybdis
    - Medusa
    - Basilisk
    - Amazons
    - Phoenix
    - Sirens

    Persian/Iranian Mythology:
    - Manticore

    Assyrian Mythology:
    - Lamasu

    Celtic/Nordic/Germanic Mythology:
    - Trolls
    - Giants
    - Dwarfs
    - Elves
    - Dryads
    - Forest Spirits
    - Dragons
    - Goblinoid creatures

    Meso American Mythologie:
    - Quetzalcoatl

    Arabic Mythology:
    - Ghouls

    Native American Mythology:
    - Vendigo

    European mythology:
    - Cockatrice
    - Ogres
    - Vampires
    - Hippogryph
    - Werewolfs
    - King Arthur
    - Hags
    - Witches

    Mongolian Mythology:
    - Death Worm (Dread Maw)

    Tibetan Mythology:
    - Yetis
    And? You think I'm daft or something? Warhammer usually gives them some distinct features or traits, unique to Warhammer. It's usually an instant recognition when it's on your screen. It's not just copypasted most of the times. It's integrated. Cathay is far from that.
    I’m not sure what you’re arguing against here. Whether your point is true or not it doesn’t change the fact that Cathay can draw strongly from popular Chinese culture. Doesn’t it require Warhammer (isms) as well? Of course, but no one argued against that.
    I'm argueing against the likelihood of Cathay. Which I think is very unlikely, at this point in time in the franchise.
  • korradokortokorradokorto Registered Users Posts: 287
    my 2 cents, if you really need to shill for cathay, or any other fringe race, at least ask for a properly made and full fledged rappresentation, ask for a ragtag of recycled stuff with a vague chinese flavour slapped on it ,well its beyond sad.
    ArneSo said:


    Every WH Race is more or less directly copied from Mythology. Warhammer is a fantasy version of our world so it’s based on our history and Mythology.

    Nope, not really, with the 4th edition, realesed in 1992, whfb ceased to be a parody, and took its own route,
  • MaelasMaelas Registered Users Posts: 1,395
    You know who would love seeing medieval fantasy chinese in warhammer and would give money for it ? Mostly anyone, because let's face it, it's a cool period, with cool soldiers, and eastern dragons, terracotta soldiers and celestial wizards are all awesome !

    (Also, if you wanna see how cool a chiense inspired fantasy faction can be, try the ungodly game Dominion)
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 19,449

    my 2 cents, if you really need to shill for cathay, or any other fringe race, at least ask for a properly made and full fledged rappresentation, ask for a ragtag of recycled stuff with a vague chinese flavour slapped on it ,well its beyond sad.

    ArneSo said:


    Every WH Race is more or less directly copied from Mythology. Warhammer is a fantasy version of our world so it’s based on our history and Mythology.

    Nope, not really, with the 4th edition, realesed in 1992, whfb ceased to be a parody, and took its own route,
    Point is that most stuff wasn’t invented by GW since they took most of their Inspiration from LotR or Mythology.
    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 9,910

    Draxynnic said:

    I've seen the Oldhammer model for the temple dogs (don't know where you're getting giant jade lions from - I think they might have been in a fanmade book, but they're not in my list of official references) It'd require a new model, possibly some new animations, but the existing feline rig is a pretty good starting point.

    Fluff is the easy part, and if they're going to go past the Mountains of Mourne at all they'll need to fill in the maps anyway.

    I could see they use the khemri warsphinx for it?

    And even that is still have to look original to work.

    "come of with fluff is easy"

    Not really when it have to fit the world.
    The warsphinx and the war lion rigs are close enough that the war lions could have been scaled down and modified warsphinx rigs (the armour plates and plaited beards probably wouldn't have required that much extra work to add). The Temple Dog minis are about War Lion size and shape, and look like they'd move like lions. Jabberslythes they're not.

    "Giant jade lions" are, again, not something that's present in the references I've collated together. It might be something I've missed, but it smells fanmade.

    Relatively speaking, fluff is the easy part. They could probably bang out settlements, buildings (including landmarks), and so on in a few afternoons with a Games Workshop writer. It's not like you'll find the building or research trees of other races in the army books either. Artwork would take a little longer, but not nearly as long as modelling and animation (there's a reason concept art gets done first - it's because if the concept art gets rejected it's a darn sight cheaper than if a completed model gets rejected). Not saying it's insignificant, or that getting Cathayan fluff in isn't going to require a bit more effort and cooperation with GW than other races, but the unique rigs required for Daemons will probably make them the more expensive race by a significant margin.
  • PoorManatee6197PoorManatee6197 Registered Users Posts: 1,182
    ROMOBOY said:

    aMint1 said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    I’m pretty sure Chinese people don’t need to see their culture given the Warhammer treatment to buy the game. I’ve never understood this concept.

    You don't see why adding parts of somewhere's culture to something might increase the appeal to the people in that region?
    I play tons of games that don’t have a thing to do with my (or any) culture.
    Me too and I think everyone does, however everytime I see Spain in a game I get a bit interested. Not saying it is an instabuy from my part but I will surely search for info about the game to see if I would like it.
    #MakeDwarfsGreatAgain Josef Bugman, Thorek Ironbrow, Alrik Ranulfsson, Grimm Burloksson, Kazador Thunderhorn, Byrrnoth Grundadrakk, Malakai Makaisson, Gotrek Gurnisson, Garagrim, Dragon slayer, Deamon slayer, Doomseekers, Brotherhood of Grimnir, Giant slayers, Thunderbarge, Shieldbearer mount, Master brewer, Goblin Hewer, Norse dwarf war mammoth, Tractator engine, Rune golem, Shard dragon, proper Anvil of Doom, Ulther's dragon company, Lond Drong's slayer pirates, Everguard, Karak Varn, Karag Agrilwutraz, Silver Pinacle, Karag Dum, Karak Vlag, Kraka Dorden, Kraka Ornsmotek, Kraka Ravnsvake, Karak Vrag, Karak Azorn, Karak Krakaten.


    All those missing things are grudges in the great book, is in your hand to settle them, CA. Khazukan kazakit-ha!
  • ROMOBOYROMOBOY Registered Users Posts: 3,632
    @Draxynnic

    ”There are also Jade Lions, which are revered for their courage and level-headedness. Occasionally a warrior may be found carrying the likeness of one of these as an amulet, and they still contain some of their power, although showing cowardice will cause the magic to depart.”

    Source- Warhammer Armies: Ogre Kingdoms (6th Edition)
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

    Cathay > Chaos Dwarfs = Pain

    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 19,449
    ROMOBOY said:

    @Draxynnic

    ”There are also Jade Lions, which are revered for their courage and level-headedness. Occasionally a warrior may be found carrying the likeness of one of these as an amulet, and they still contain some of their power, although showing cowardice will cause the magic to depart.”

    Source- Warhammer Armies: Ogre Kingdoms (6th Edition)

    Nice! That would be a cool unit and since lore blurbs are a valid source for units now, it’s definitely possible.
    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 4,548
    I still think the Far East as a whole is unlikely. I do think we'll get the Darklands and the missing parts of Lustria & the Southlands though.
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 19,449

    I still think the Far East as a whole is unlikely. I do think we'll get the Darklands and the missing parts of Lustria & the Southlands though.

    WH3 is a stand alone game so even if we get a full New World for the combined map, WH3 stills needs a huge and diverse Stand alone map for the narrative campaign.

    The Far East gets more and more likely.
    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
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