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IMO, Cathay might be added mostly to grab the Chinese audience.

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  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,260
    JungleElf said:

    JungleElf said:

    ArneSo said:

    JungleElf said:

    Just one thing about this 'but it's not 3k' argument that keeps coming up:

    -I imagine that there are a lot of Chinese fantasy series which are popular within China

    -I imagine that a lot of these fantasies have an element of 3k in them anyway, in the same way Bretonnia has elements to it based on the classic tales in English and French culture

    -By bringing in Chinese creators from NetEase, they are qualified to align any Cathay faction with what is currently popular in Chinese culture while working with GW to keep that authentic WH look.

    The argument 'Cathay not 3k = bad' isn't a useful or well thought out argument.

    Warhammer isn't Age of Mythology. It needs to be tethered to the existing material and have that Warhammer 'feel' to it.
    Hmm let’s see...

    Greek Mythology:
    - Gryphons
    - Minotaurs
    - Centaurs
    - Satyr
    - Hydras
    - Kharybdis
    - Medusa
    - Basilisk
    - Amazons
    - Phoenix
    - Sirens

    Persian/Iranian Mythology:
    - Manticore

    Assyrian Mythology:
    - Lamasu

    Celtic/Nordic/Germanic Mythology:
    - Trolls
    - Giants
    - Dwarfs
    - Elves
    - Dryads
    - Forest Spirits
    - Dragons
    - Goblinoid creatures

    Meso American Mythologie:
    - Quetzalcoatl

    Arabic Mythology:
    - Ghouls

    Native American Mythology:
    - Vendigo

    European mythology:
    - Cockatrice
    - Ogres
    - Vampires
    - Hippogryph
    - Werewolfs
    - King Arthur
    - Hags
    - Witches

    Mongolian Mythology:
    - Death Worm (Dread Maw)

    Tibetan Mythology:
    - Yetis
    And? You think I'm daft or something? Warhammer usually gives them some distinct features or traits, unique to Warhammer. It's usually an instant recognition when it's on your screen. It's not just copypasted most of the times. It's integrated. Cathay is far from that.
    I’m not sure what you’re arguing against here. Whether your point is true or not it doesn’t change the fact that Cathay can draw strongly from popular Chinese culture. Doesn’t it require Warhammer (isms) as well? Of course, but no one argued against that.
    I'm argueing against the likelihood of Cathay. Which I think is very unlikely, at this point in time in the franchise.
    But your premise was Cathay can’t be related to 3k or other popular Chinese culture and that argument was wrong.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,260
    Just one thing about the current ME map. It has been seriously condensed. The section added with Snikch is tiny but certain points are almost level with the far edge of the Darklands. If that’s all that gets added it’ll be pretty unimpressive.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 10,054
    ROMOBOY said:

    @Draxynnic

    ”There are also Jade Lions, which are revered for their courage and level-headedness. Occasionally a warrior may be found carrying the likeness of one of these as an amulet, and they still contain some of their power, although showing cowardice will cause the magic to depart.”

    Source- Warhammer Armies: Ogre Kingdoms (6th Edition)

    Ah, in the magic items section. Not a direct quote from the original source, and doesn't say that they fight in Cathayan armies, but I'll add it in anyway.

    Seems to indicate that they are a creature rather than just a variant on Stone Dogs (maybe the inspiration) since a construct being described as 'level-headed' would be a bit odd unless there's something giving the construct a personality. Nothing to indicate that they're of an unusual size or shape, though (and in the case of being an unusual size, scaling a rig up or down is fairly simple, although being larger might call for some changes in the attack animations).
  • ROMOBOYROMOBOY Registered Users Posts: 3,636
    Draxynnic said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    @Draxynnic

    ”There are also Jade Lions, which are revered for their courage and level-headedness. Occasionally a warrior may be found carrying the likeness of one of these as an amulet, and they still contain some of their power, although showing cowardice will cause the magic to depart.”

    Source- Warhammer Armies: Ogre Kingdoms (6th Edition)

    Ah, in the magic items section. Not a direct quote from the original source, and doesn't say that they fight in Cathayan armies, but I'll add it in anyway.

    Seems to indicate that they are a creature rather than just a variant on Stone Dogs (maybe the inspiration) since a construct being described as 'level-headed' would be a bit odd unless there's something giving the construct a personality. Nothing to indicate that they're of an unusual size or shape, though (and in the case of being an unusual size, scaling a rig up or down is fairly simple, although being larger might call for some changes in the attack animations).
    Pretty sure when that lore was written, they had these in mind-

    They’re everywhere in China, and they’re truly amazing.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

    Cathay > Chaos Dwarfs = Pain

    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 20,130
    ROMOBOY said:

    Draxynnic said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    @Draxynnic

    ”There are also Jade Lions, which are revered for their courage and level-headedness. Occasionally a warrior may be found carrying the likeness of one of these as an amulet, and they still contain some of their power, although showing cowardice will cause the magic to depart.”

    Source- Warhammer Armies: Ogre Kingdoms (6th Edition)

    Ah, in the magic items section. Not a direct quote from the original source, and doesn't say that they fight in Cathayan armies, but I'll add it in anyway.

    Seems to indicate that they are a creature rather than just a variant on Stone Dogs (maybe the inspiration) since a construct being described as 'level-headed' would be a bit odd unless there's something giving the construct a personality. Nothing to indicate that they're of an unusual size or shape, though (and in the case of being an unusual size, scaling a rig up or down is fairly simple, although being larger might call for some changes in the attack animations).
    Pretty sure when that lore was written, they had these in mind-

    They’re everywhere in China, and they’re truly amazing.
    They are the Chinese version of the the Assyrian Lamasu or the Egyptian Sphinx. Would be amazing to have them as a monstrous unit or maybe even a mount.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 10,054
    ROMOBOY said:

    Draxynnic said:

    ROMOBOY said:

    @Draxynnic

    ”There are also Jade Lions, which are revered for their courage and level-headedness. Occasionally a warrior may be found carrying the likeness of one of these as an amulet, and they still contain some of their power, although showing cowardice will cause the magic to depart.”

    Source- Warhammer Armies: Ogre Kingdoms (6th Edition)

    Ah, in the magic items section. Not a direct quote from the original source, and doesn't say that they fight in Cathayan armies, but I'll add it in anyway.

    Seems to indicate that they are a creature rather than just a variant on Stone Dogs (maybe the inspiration) since a construct being described as 'level-headed' would be a bit odd unless there's something giving the construct a personality. Nothing to indicate that they're of an unusual size or shape, though (and in the case of being an unusual size, scaling a rig up or down is fairly simple, although being larger might call for some changes in the attack animations).
    Pretty sure when that lore was written, they had these in mind-

    They’re everywhere in China, and they’re truly amazing.
    Yeah, I'm well aware of shishi. That's exactly what the Temple Dog is based on - and the Temple Dog is of a size to be a monstrous cavalry mount. (That's actually something that probably should be renamed out of cultural sensitivity, since referring to them as 'dogs' is a Japanese and Anglophonic thing.)
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,787
    Coming up with lore will be the easy part. Cmon just look at AoS and the floating sky dwarves. You can’t tell me that took a room full of dudes with Masters degrees to **** out.

    Sounds more like a coked out movie pitch from some studio execs concept rock album from the 80s.
  • ROMOBOYROMOBOY Registered Users Posts: 3,636


    Sounds more like a coked out movie pitch from some studio execs concept rock album from the 80s.

    Wow... I couldn’t of said that any better myself.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

    Cathay > Chaos Dwarfs = Pain

    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 4,612
    ArneSo said:

    I still think the Far East as a whole is unlikely. I do think we'll get the Darklands and the missing parts of Lustria & the Southlands though.

    WH3 is a stand alone game so even if we get a full New World for the combined map, WH3 stills needs a huge and diverse Stand alone map for the narrative campaign.

    The Far East gets more and more likely.
    I think we get a very detailed Darklands map for that, I don't think that involves the Far East being incorporated at all.
  • JungleElfJungleElf Registered Users Posts: 3,906
    The Chaos Wastes, Mountains of Mourn, the Darklands and parts of the Old World as a target for those delicious Chaos Invasions might be the most plausible setting.
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 20,130

    ArneSo said:

    I still think the Far East as a whole is unlikely. I do think we'll get the Darklands and the missing parts of Lustria & the Southlands though.

    WH3 is a stand alone game so even if we get a full New World for the combined map, WH3 stills needs a huge and diverse Stand alone map for the narrative campaign.

    The Far East gets more and more likely.
    I think we get a very detailed Darklands map for that, I don't think that involves the Far East being incorporated at all.
    The Dark Lands should have the same size as Lustria or Naggaroth. Making it bigger would add absolutely nothing since it’s a barren wasteland.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 4,612
    ArneSo said:

    ArneSo said:

    I still think the Far East as a whole is unlikely. I do think we'll get the Darklands and the missing parts of Lustria & the Southlands though.

    WH3 is a stand alone game so even if we get a full New World for the combined map, WH3 stills needs a huge and diverse Stand alone map for the narrative campaign.

    The Far East gets more and more likely.
    I think we get a very detailed Darklands map for that, I don't think that involves the Far East being incorporated at all.
    The Dark Lands should have the same size as Lustria or Naggaroth. Making it bigger would add absolutely nothing since it’s a barren wasteland.
    That still has a variety of locations, it isn't just empty landscape.
  • JungleElfJungleElf Registered Users Posts: 3,906
    The Mountains of Mourn have a larger amount of landmarks than the Darklands, strangely enough.

    Anyway, the game 3 map doesn't have to expand that far too the east if all of the Mountains of Mourn and Chaos Wastes are included and the WH3 campaign features parts of the Old World.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,260


    Here's a section of the map. Now, imagine the current ME map and the addition of Snikch's DLC where Pigbarter and the Dragon Isles (Malus) were added. We know that is a very slim area on the ME but the Dragon Isles abobe is level with the Mountains of Mourn. So if just a section of the Mountains of Mourn is added for the Ogres then that will be the tiniest addition so far for the ME map in reference to a new game. That's what makes me think they will move more to the East. Not forgetting the first Cathayan settlement is just East of the Dragon Isles.
  • JungleElfJungleElf Registered Users Posts: 3,906



    Here's a section of the map. Now, imagine the current ME map and the addition of Snikch's DLC where Pigbarter and the Dragon Isles (Malus) were added. We know that is a very slim area on the ME but the Dragon Isles abobe is level with the Mountains of Mourn. So if just a section of the Mountains of Mourn is added for the Ogres then that will be the tiniest addition so far for the ME map in reference to a new game. That's what makes me think they will move more to the East. Not forgetting the first Cathayan settlement is just East of the Dragon Isles.

    They can twist and turn it all they want, just like with the New World in the Vortex campaign, especially the Southlands.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,260
    JungleElf said:



    Here's a section of the map. Now, imagine the current ME map and the addition of Snikch's DLC where Pigbarter and the Dragon Isles (Malus) were added. We know that is a very slim area on the ME but the Dragon Isles abobe is level with the Mountains of Mourn. So if just a section of the Mountains of Mourn is added for the Ogres then that will be the tiniest addition so far for the ME map in reference to a new game. That's what makes me think they will move more to the East. Not forgetting the first Cathayan settlement is just East of the Dragon Isles.

    They can twist and turn it all they want, just like with the New World in the Vortex campaign, especially the Southlands.
    Yes they can, but they already have and so far the ME from one side of the Darklands to the other is tiny on ME. I'm going off what they have done - the actual reality of the current ME map.
  • BonutzBonutz Registered Users Posts: 3,770
    edited December 2020
    I’m Japanese and Italian. Coming from personal experience, no doubt I had more of a connection to Shogun 2 and Rome 2 when they came out.

    People gravitate towards things that resonate with themselves or their heritage for sure. Not always the case in every instance obviously.
    I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I’m all out of bubblegum.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,260
    Bonutz said:

    I’m Japanese and Italian. Coming from personal experience, no doubt I had more of a connection to Shogun 2 and Rome 2 when they came out.

    However, it’s not a necessity to have ones culture in a video game for it to be liked or sell well. Not at all.

    However, was it a coincidence that 3K broke the Chinese market rather than say R2? I certainly wouldn't talk for everyone but it's no coincidence I played England in M2 or Britain in Napoleon. I'm sure a lot of North Americans played the USA faction in Empire because they had more knowledge/emotional attachment to it.
  • BonutzBonutz Registered Users Posts: 3,770
    edited December 2020

    Bonutz said:

    I’m Japanese and Italian. Coming from personal experience, no doubt I had more of a connection to Shogun 2 and Rome 2 when they came out.

    However, it’s not a necessity to have ones culture in a video game for it to be liked or sell well. Not at all.

    However, was it a coincidence that 3K broke the Chinese market rather than say R2? I certainly wouldn't talk for everyone but it's no coincidence I played England in M2 or Britain in Napoleon. I'm sure a lot of North Americans played the USA faction in Empire because they had more knowledge/emotional attachment to it.
    I actually edited my comment Dave Dave but yes I agree with you. I’m an American and I loved the revolutionary war campaign in Empire. It resonated big time with me.

    People like things that they are familiar with.
    I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I’m all out of bubblegum.
  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 2,993

    JungleElf said:



    Here's a section of the map. Now, imagine the current ME map and the addition of Snikch's DLC where Pigbarter and the Dragon Isles (Malus) were added. We know that is a very slim area on the ME but the Dragon Isles abobe is level with the Mountains of Mourn. So if just a section of the Mountains of Mourn is added for the Ogres then that will be the tiniest addition so far for the ME map in reference to a new game. That's what makes me think they will move more to the East. Not forgetting the first Cathayan settlement is just East of the Dragon Isles.

    They can twist and turn it all they want, just like with the New World in the Vortex campaign, especially the Southlands.
    Yes they can, but they already have and so far the ME from one side of the Darklands to the other is tiny on ME. I'm going off what they have done - the actual reality of the current ME map.
    Except the darklands will need to be expanded massively for game 3 anyway so the point is moot.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,260

    JungleElf said:



    Here's a section of the map. Now, imagine the current ME map and the addition of Snikch's DLC where Pigbarter and the Dragon Isles (Malus) were added. We know that is a very slim area on the ME but the Dragon Isles abobe is level with the Mountains of Mourn. So if just a section of the Mountains of Mourn is added for the Ogres then that will be the tiniest addition so far for the ME map in reference to a new game. That's what makes me think they will move more to the East. Not forgetting the first Cathayan settlement is just East of the Dragon Isles.

    They can twist and turn it all they want, just like with the New World in the Vortex campaign, especially the Southlands.
    Yes they can, but they already have and so far the ME from one side of the Darklands to the other is tiny on ME. I'm going off what they have done - the actual reality of the current ME map.
    Except the darklands will need to be expanded massively for game 3 anyway so the point is moot.
    It's not though, according to the ME map the fact the Dragon Isles are there tells me it's relatively small compared to the rest of the new game additions. I'm just going off what we can see now.
  • ROMOBOYROMOBOY Registered Users Posts: 3,636

    The ME we have in WH2 won’t be the one we have in WH3. So map additions leading towards the Darklands are just placeholders. Darklands will be much bigger.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

    Cathay > Chaos Dwarfs = Pain

    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,260
    Bonutz said:

    Bonutz said:

    I’m Japanese and Italian. Coming from personal experience, no doubt I had more of a connection to Shogun 2 and Rome 2 when they came out.

    However, it’s not a necessity to have ones culture in a video game for it to be liked or sell well. Not at all.

    However, was it a coincidence that 3K broke the Chinese market rather than say R2? I certainly wouldn't talk for everyone but it's no coincidence I played England in M2 or Britain in Napoleon. I'm sure a lot of North Americans played the USA faction in Empire because they had more knowledge/emotional attachment to it.
    I actually edited my comment Dave Dave but yes I agree with you. I’m an American and I loved the revolutionary war campaign in Empire. It resonated big time with me.

    People like things that they are familiar with.
    I think one of the issues is pre existing knowledge. I see a lot of US guys asking for the ACW and I thought.. sounds a bit boring. However, watched a documentary on it by PBS and it was really interesting so I joined in! :-)
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 20,130

    ArneSo said:

    ArneSo said:

    I still think the Far East as a whole is unlikely. I do think we'll get the Darklands and the missing parts of Lustria & the Southlands though.

    WH3 is a stand alone game so even if we get a full New World for the combined map, WH3 stills needs a huge and diverse Stand alone map for the narrative campaign.

    The Far East gets more and more likely.
    I think we get a very detailed Darklands map for that, I don't think that involves the Far East being incorporated at all.
    The Dark Lands should have the same size as Lustria or Naggaroth. Making it bigger would add absolutely nothing since it’s a barren wasteland.
    That still has a variety of locations, it isn't just empty landscape.
    It really is
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 20,130
    ROMOBOY said:


    The ME we have in WH2 won’t be the one we have in WH3. So map additions leading towards the Darklands are just placeholders. Darklands will be much bigger.

    Thats waaaaay to small and 50% of that map is already there. With such a mini map CA won’t be able to support the game for more than 3 years.

    No way the map will be that small.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,260
    ROMOBOY said:


    The ME we have in WH2 won’t be the one we have in WH3. So map additions leading towards the Darklands are just placeholders. Darklands will be much bigger.

    It's not the WH2 ME map, it's the combined ME map. We don't know what and how they will add to the ME map. Why add Snikch's little area just to change it again?
  • BonutzBonutz Registered Users Posts: 3,770

    Bonutz said:

    Bonutz said:

    I’m Japanese and Italian. Coming from personal experience, no doubt I had more of a connection to Shogun 2 and Rome 2 when they came out.

    However, it’s not a necessity to have ones culture in a video game for it to be liked or sell well. Not at all.

    However, was it a coincidence that 3K broke the Chinese market rather than say R2? I certainly wouldn't talk for everyone but it's no coincidence I played England in M2 or Britain in Napoleon. I'm sure a lot of North Americans played the USA faction in Empire because they had more knowledge/emotional attachment to it.
    I actually edited my comment Dave Dave but yes I agree with you. I’m an American and I loved the revolutionary war campaign in Empire. It resonated big time with me.

    People like things that they are familiar with.
    I think one of the issues is pre existing knowledge. I see a lot of US guys asking for the ACW and I thought.. sounds a bit boring. However, watched a documentary on it by PBS and it was really interesting so I joined in! :-)
    It’s very interesting! ACW was brutal. Lots of great generals and battles in that war.
    I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I’m all out of bubblegum.
  • ROMOBOYROMOBOY Registered Users Posts: 3,636
    @davedave1124
    @ArneSo
    Lol sorry guys, I accidentally sent the wrong one.

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

    Cathay > Chaos Dwarfs = Pain

    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 4,612
    ArneSo said:

    ArneSo said:

    ArneSo said:

    I still think the Far East as a whole is unlikely. I do think we'll get the Darklands and the missing parts of Lustria & the Southlands though.

    WH3 is a stand alone game so even if we get a full New World for the combined map, WH3 stills needs a huge and diverse Stand alone map for the narrative campaign.

    The Far East gets more and more likely.
    I think we get a very detailed Darklands map for that, I don't think that involves the Far East being incorporated at all.
    The Dark Lands should have the same size as Lustria or Naggaroth. Making it bigger would add absolutely nothing since it’s a barren wasteland.
    That still has a variety of locations, it isn't just empty landscape.
    It really is
    It's still inhabited by various factions, it's a wasteland yes but it has locations.
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 20,130
    ROMOBOY said:

    @davedave1124
    @ArneSo
    Lol sorry guys, I accidentally sent the wrong one.

    I still think that’s to small. Especially since most parts already exist.

    I expect a DLC support of 6-8 years for WH3. With such a map, that won’t be possible.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
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