CA's most beautiful mistake

CanadianNewb

CA deserves an award for the most beautiful campaign map ever yet created for this type of game. I don't need to go into any detail why but the point is that it's also lead to one of the biggest failures of the game. Infinite replayability: the game as of now only feels replayable after every DLC drop but the feeling quickly fades and unless you can figure out how to design a far more challenging and intelligent AI opponent your only option in many of your fans minds is what you CANNOT do:

Random map generator

With how you made the map this is impossible
BUT
what if you could slice the map you already made and then add customizable options, for example I want to play a game using only Ulthulan and I want all the settlements to be divided by 10 factions I want there to be 6 high elves 2 dark elves a beastman and an orc and goblins and I want everyone to start at war with eachother.

If you could provide a way for players to create their own scenarios just from smaller sections of your already created map then customize you would create infinite possibilities and replayability for the community

Itharus#3127

O_o

Surge_2#1464

I dont know what I'm reading here.

CanadianNewb

Surge_2 said:

I dont know what I'm reading here.

A custom campaign generator using CA's map but either preferably slicing out whatever part of the map you wanted to battle over OR preset options of the most popular chunks of the map

Commissar_G#7535

I feel like I've walked into a drunken conversation 2 hours in and have zero context.

HowTheStarsBurn#4488

The game is delicately balanced around starting areas, everything would be seriously imbalanced on a random map or if you decide to mess with factions.

Neodeinos#5871

Looks like too much work for something that isn't needed.

ROMOBOY#7812

I mean what you suggested sounds pretty cool. But it would take a lot of work I’d imagine.

Mr_Finley7#4571

Not interested

Draxynnic#3149

I could see an RMG working. Back in the tabletop days, Games Workshop themselves presented the potential of having map-based campaigns based around multiple factions trying to seize a previously unexplored area (Lumbria, perhaps).

It would solve the tension between players who want the map to behave in a reasonably lore-accurate fashion and those who want every game to play out differently - the latter could play on random maps and have a different experience every time. With the caveat that LLs would no longer be balanced around start positions, and some item quests might also have their key locations randomised a bit.

Eterlik#9017

I would like that.
Just play on a small portion of the huge map.
Then we could at least finish the campaigns without the slog that endgame atm is.
just some quick stabby stabby and out. 10 minutes of advanture

petertel123#3826

HowTheStarsBurn said:

The game is delicately balanced around starting areas, everything would be seriously imbalanced on a random map or if you decide to mess with factions.

Look, I dont like this idea very much, but to call the game "delicately balanced" is laughable.

Itharus#3127

That sounds more like some crappy small spinoff game called TW: Warhammer Adventures that wastes time, effort, money, delays DLCs, gets launched on mobile, and ultimately dies after 14 months.

Sultschiem#8734

CanadianNewb said:

CA deserves an award for the most beautiful campaign map ever yet created for this type of game. I don't need to go into any detail why but the point is that it's also lead to one of the biggest failures of the game. Infinite replayability: the game as of now only feels replayable after every DLC drop but the feeling quickly fades and unless you can figure out how to design a far more challenging and intelligent AI opponent your only option in many of your fans minds is what you CANNOT do:

Random map generator

With how you made the map this is impossible
BUT
what if you could slice the map you already made and then add customizable options, for example I want to play a game using only Ulthulan and I want all the settlements to be divided by 10 factions I want there to be 6 high elves 2 dark elves a beastman and an orc and goblins and I want everyone to start at war with eachother.

If you could provide a way for players to create their own scenarios just from smaller sections of your already created map then customize you would create infinite possibilities and replayability for the community

What IS possible however, is randomize the starting locations of factions as a mod already did that.
Or to give strength modifiers/randomizers to different factions (unnatural selection mod).

Steph#6413

Having several theatres of war (Ulthuan, Southlands, Lustria, Naggaroth, Badlands, Athel Loren, Old Worlds, Darklands, Far East, Chaos Realms...) with travel points to go from one to another would actually be a good idea.
- No need to crop the maps to have them fit together, each map can be detailed.
- Easy for expansion: CA could release game 3 without Cathay and the far east theater, and if they want to add Cathay, they don't need to expand a fixed size map : they add a new theater, and the necessary travel points to link it to other maps.
- Allow some campaign customization : you could play only the Old World, or Old World + Southlands, or Nagarroth + Ulthuan... or everything!

CanadianNewb

Steph_F_David said:

Having several theatres of war (Ulthuan, Southlands, Lustria, Naggaroth, Badlands, Athel Loren, Old Worlds, Darklands, Far East, Chaos Realms...) with travel points to go from one to another would actually be a good idea.
- No need to crop the maps to have them fit together, each map can be detailed.
- Easy for expansion: CA could release game 3 without Cathay and the far east theater, and if they want to add Cathay, they don't need to expand a fixed size map : they add a new theater, and the necessary travel points to link it to other maps.
- Allow some campaign customization : you could play only the Old World, or Old World + Southlands, or Nagarroth + Ulthuan... or everything!

I like the idea of theaters but I doubt the AI would be able to play around them at all. Being able to say I want to fight in Lustria but I want all the cities to be divided up between just 3 factions , lizard men, VCoast and skaven and I start as just a naval expedition army off the coast instantly creates a more challenging and enjoyable scenario than mortal empires could ever give having to wait for my perfect moment to expand as the other 3 wage war upon eachother as they would be so much stronger at the start and that's just one of infinite scenarios

Steph#6413

I doubt it would be more difficult for the AI, Empire for example to think it has to make an expedition from Altdorf to a travel point to Lustria that it is to go from Altdorf to Lustria directly.

It may even be easier with the possiblity to split the AI to several level (a global AI, and theatre AI). CA may already have done this actually.

And also, use of travel points would simplify the AI work for long distance travel as they would have fewer routes to consider, pathfinding maybe easier.

And CA already did that with Empire, so they have some experience

CanadianNewb

Steph_F_David said:

I doubt it would be more difficult for the AI, Empire for example to think it has to make an expedition from Altdorf to a travel point to Lustria that it is to go from Altdorf to Lustria directly.

It may even be easier with the possiblity to split the AI to several level (a global AI, and theatre AI). CA may already have done this actually.

And also, use of travel points would simplify the AI work for long distance travel as they would have fewer routes to consider, pathfinding maybe easier.

And CA already did that with Empire, so they have some experience

If they're already planning something like this for game 3 I agree but if we're basing this off of empire definitely not they were easily abused by this feature if they used it at all they would never send armies across theaters only naval units to harass yours as you tried to build up a trade empire

Steph#6413

Good thing we don't have navies then... The AI would have to send armies .

And the experience from Empire can also help them with what didn't work and should be fixed.

#902441

Commissar_G said:

I feel like I've walked into a drunken conversation 2 hours in and have zero context.

The thing is..the thing...is..the thing..IS...you're a great guy. No, shut up, you're..great..I mean it...like..the greatest...

Warlord_Lu_Bu#2268

Blasphemy! keep your board game ideals out of here! TOTAL WAR Forever.

CanadianNewb

Warlord_Lu_Bu said:

Blasphemy! keep your board game ideals out of here! TOTAL WAR Forever.

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