Morathi fits Chaos better than Dark Elves.

TotalWarhammer

And it's all due to Morathi spreading chaos corruption. She is actively causing harm to her fellow Dark Elves that walk through her land and she's paving the way for chaos. Confederation with her will often result in rebellions because her cities have a lot of chaos corruption. On top of that, the Sanctum of Quintex Landmark that is supposed to help with public order has been nerfed from -90% penalty to -50% penalty. And that's with Quintex at level 5. Also, if you do confederate the Cult of Pleasure, it's better to get rid of Morathi's weapon because it causes +5 chaos corruption. Is there any other legendary lord whose legendary items are best disposed of after confederation?

Hurts Druchii allies, confederation leads to rebellions and her weapon is best thrown in the bin. Lorewise she may be a Dark Elf; gameplay-wise Morathi fits the Chaos faction better. I think this is a very bad mechanic, especially for multiplayer coop games.

Vildvarg

Didn't they change it so once confederated they stop spreading corruption?

I haven't touched Morathi in ages.

#568367

Fits her surprisingly well in that case. She's always been a source of corruption, bringing the worse out of the dark elves. Even Malekith had to lock her up back when they were HE.

TotalWarhammer

Vildvarg said:

Didn't they change it so once confederated they stop spreading corruption?

I haven't touched Morathi in ages.

True, but her sword still spreads corruption and the chaos corruption that's already in her regions causes massive public order problems.

GreenColoured said:

Fits her surprisingly well in that case. She's always been a source of corruption, bringing the worse out of the dark elves. Even Malekith had to lock her up back when they were HE.

Yes, it's true to lore (as I understand it), but from a gameplay point of view, it doesn't really make sense and is very annoying imho.

#568367

TotalWarhammer said:

Vildvarg said:

Didn't they change it so once confederated they stop spreading corruption?

I haven't touched Morathi in ages.

True, but her sword still spreads corruption and the chaos corruption that's already in her regions causes massive public order problems.

GreenColoured said:

Fits her surprisingly well in that case. She's always been a source of corruption, bringing the worse out of the dark elves. Even Malekith had to lock her up back when they were HE.

Yes, it's true to lore (as I understand it), but from a gameplay point of view, it doesn't really make sense and is very annoying imho.

See I don't mind it screwing her allies over. That's very Morathi.


I just don't like how worthless her Chaos Corruption is for her own gains. Morathi needs an identity when you play her, something she clearly lacks.


She holds more gameplay value (even as a nuinsance) as an AI controlled DE faction that's a detriment to her own society, which is the current problem. There's not much incentive to actually start a campaign as her over anyone else.

Slayer_Yannir#8069

I never found Morathis weapon causing Chaos Corruption an issue. She doesn't spend that many turns sitting around as I always make her the spearhead of any assault. She's probably the most powerful battlefield lord in the game, and I want to use that. Anyone that says differently doesn't know how to build her or use her. A little corruption here and there makes no difference, anyway.

Maelas

Morathi is not a chaos worshipper. She's a self-serving dark elf of unimaginable power, and that allows here to use chaos and do deals with the dark gods on near equal terms. She's not chaos, she's just not above using daemons for her plans (or her fun, because turns out daemonettes makes nice party friends).
She spread chaos corruption not necessarily by design but because her cult is based around things that pleases Slaanesh, and she don't mind, being in a chaos god's good graces is always nice when you're powerful enough to protect yourself from the risks.

TheShiroOfDalton

Maelas said:

Morathi is not a chaos worshipper. She's a self-serving dark elf of unimaginable power, and that allows here to use chaos and do deals with the dark gods on near equal terms. She's not chaos, she's just not above using daemons for her plans (or her fun, because turns out daemonettes makes nice party friends).
She spread chaos corruption not necessarily by design but because her cult is based around things that pleases Slaanesh, and she don't mind, being in a chaos god's good graces is always nice when you're powerful enough to protect yourself from the risks.

You never make deals with Chaos on even terms, and that includes Morathi. She sacrificed her son and in fact her entire race and yet it came to nothing eventually as she was consumed by Slaanesh all the same.

HighPriest_Astragoth#4150

By that very definition, then my most played legendary lord, Heinrich Kemmler should also be with Chaos, and I thank you kindly to never ask that. Morathi and Kemmler are there as that’s how their actual character was, Kemmler made deals, Morathi made, “bed deals”, and to show that they both can potentially spread Chaos influences. It’s a nice way of showing what happens when one believes themself to be beyond the reach of Chaos, while also using Chaos to reach their goal, think of that old Angelo-Saxon line of “when fighting monsters be careful not to become one.”

TotalWarhammer

Maelas said:

Morathi is not a chaos worshipper. She's a self-serving dark elf of unimaginable power, and that allows here to use chaos and do deals with the dark gods on near equal terms. She's not chaos, she's just not above using daemons for her plans (or her fun, because turns out daemonettes makes nice party friends).
She spread chaos corruption not necessarily by design but because her cult is based around things that pleases Slaanesh, and she don't mind, being in a chaos god's good graces is always nice when you're powerful enough to protect yourself from the risks.

Not sure if we're on the same wavelength here. My point is about gameplay, not lore. Morathi spreads chaos. That means she is functionally the same as the Chaos faction. She's just a Chaos lord with Elves. Chaos Elves if you will.

Now, if spreading Chaos was optional - like, through buildings or rites that give her or her units extra buffs at the cost of Chaos corruption - that would be a lot better. But to make her an openly and outright Chaos faction was the wrong choice.

Uagrim#4644

TotalWarhammer said:

Maelas said:

Morathi is not a chaos worshipper. She's a self-serving dark elf of unimaginable power, and that allows here to use chaos and do deals with the dark gods on near equal terms. She's not chaos, she's just not above using daemons for her plans (or her fun, because turns out daemonettes makes nice party friends).
She spread chaos corruption not necessarily by design but because her cult is based around things that pleases Slaanesh, and she don't mind, being in a chaos god's good graces is always nice when you're powerful enough to protect yourself from the risks.

Not sure if we're on the same wavelength here. My point is about gameplay, not lore. Morathi spreads chaos. That means she is functionally the same as the Chaos faction. She's just a Chaos lord with Elves. Chaos Elves if you will.

Now, if spreading Chaos was optional - like, through buildings or rites that give her or her units extra buffs at the cost of Chaos corruption - that would be a lot better. But to make her an openly and outright Chaos faction was the wrong choice.

Why is spreading chaos corruption the only factor that goes into this.

She uses the dark elves roster, she can only confederate other dark elves and she goes to war with chaos just like everyone else.

TotalWarhammer

Because Chaos corruption benefits Chaos and harms Dark Elves. The unit roster isn't detrimental or beneficial to other Chaos factions.

Confederation comes with public order problems and despite going to war with Chaos, the corruption paves the way for Chaos.

Uagrim#4644

And?

The dark elves big stick is that what they do works in favor of chaos. So I don't see your issue that chaos doesn't have the same trouble as other faction when dealing with morathi.

TotalWarhammer

Uagrim said:

And?

The dark elves big stick is that what they do works in favor of chaos.

I don't think that's true, but if it is, all Dark Elves should spread chaos corruption

Uagrim said:

So I don't see your issue that chaos doesn't have the same trouble as other faction when dealing with morathi.

Not my point. My point is that Morathi is functionally a Chaos faction, Chaos Elves, and that her faction should be fixed - or moved to the Chaos race.

DeadpoolSW#7283

Just because she happens to work with chaos sometimes, and worships slaanesh, doesn’t mean she should be shipped to an entirely different army roster.

ROMOBOY#7812

I agree with op that something needs to be changed. Instead of spreading corruption, she can just further reduce the public order effect that it has on her settlements. Until they add Slaanesh, I don’t want to see her spreading corruption at all.

Uagrim#4644

TotalWarhammer said:

Uagrim said:

And?

The dark elves big stick is that what they do works in favor of chaos.

I don't think that's true, but if it is, all Dark Elves should spread chaos corruption

Uagrim said:

So I don't see your issue that chaos doesn't have the same trouble as other faction when dealing with morathi.

Not my point. My point is that Morathi is functionally a Chaos faction, Chaos Elves, and that her faction should be fixed - or moved to the Chaos race.

Because she spreads chaos corruption?

I think that is more an issue with the fact that the acctual chaos faction lacks any sort of special mechanic.

Maelas

ShiroAmakusa75 said:

You never make deals with Chaos on even terms, and that includes Morathi. She sacrificed her son and in fact her entire race and yet it came to nothing eventually as she was consumed by Slaanesh all the same.

I'd argue that end times notwithstanding, Morathi had quite the sweet deal. She lived through the daemon invasion, lived through Aenarion's madness, lived through the Sundering, became high queen of an entire race that obeys her every whims, invented alone an entire lore of magic AND she even managed to crack eternal youth.
And she still find the time to bind greater daemons for fun.

Sure, it's implied that her soul is doomed, but that's not a problem if you just not die, and dark elves souls are kind of **** anyway, weither you're into chaos or not. My point is that she isn't a chaos "worshipper", she either deal with or take from Slaanesh, but she's not a lowly chaos cultist that slaves for years to maybe get one extra ****, she is only behind Archaon in how much she gained from chaos without paying any real price.

TheShiroOfDalton

Maelas said:

ShiroAmakusa75 said:

You never make deals with Chaos on even terms, and that includes Morathi. She sacrificed her son and in fact her entire race and yet it came to nothing eventually as she was consumed by Slaanesh all the same.

I'd argue that end times notwithstanding, Morathi had quite the sweet deal. She lived through the daemon invasion, lived through Aenarion's madness, lived through the Sundering, became high queen of an entire race that obeys her every whims, invented alone an entire lore of magic AND she even managed to crack eternal youth.
And she still find the time to bind greater daemons for fun.

Sure, it's implied that her soul is doomed, but that's not a problem if you just not die, and dark elves souls are kind of **** anyway, weither you're into chaos or not. My point is that she isn't a chaos "worshipper", she either deal with or take from Slaanesh, but she's not a lowly chaos cultist that slaves for years to maybe get one extra ****, she is only behind Archaon in how much she gained from chaos without paying any real price.

Except Morathi did die...and whatever millenia in beauty and youthfulness she had is nothing compared to an eternity as Slaanesh's plaything. And even after she was released she became a misshapen monster, just like the sorceresses she had once condemned to be Medusae.

Maelas

ShiroAmakusa75 said:

Except Morathi did die...and whatever millenia in beauty and youthfulness she had is nothing compared to an eternity as Slaanesh's plaything. And even after she was released she became a misshapen monster, just like the sorceresses she had once condemned to be Medusae.

That's end times **** and I won't have it ! Especially since that if we accept End Times, then that means Malekith was the legitimate elven ruler all along, and so Morathi was right and justified from the start and didn't sacrifice her son, because she was doing everything just !
And that's removing all the fun of the dark elves, they're supposed to be wrong and
evil, ridiculously so, and look damn good and stylish while they do it, not "misunderstood but in the right"

Caffynated#2235

Yes, we spent weeks telling them this was a bad design before TWWH2 even launched. Here we are years later and the design is still garbage mechanically and a terrible injustice to the lore. It undoes all of the lore from 7th and 8th that fleshed her out from a hot Chaos cultist to a demigod of magic whose influence spreads from Ghrond to the halls of kings where she manipulates the world's leaders and even the gods to do her will.

ShiroAmakusa75 said:

Maelas said:

ShiroAmakusa75 said:

You never make deals with Chaos on even terms, and that includes Morathi. She sacrificed her son and in fact her entire race and yet it came to nothing eventually as she was consumed by Slaanesh all the same.

I'd argue that end times notwithstanding, Morathi had quite the sweet deal. She lived through the daemon invasion, lived through Aenarion's madness, lived through the Sundering, became high queen of an entire race that obeys her every whims, invented alone an entire lore of magic AND she even managed to crack eternal youth.
And she still find the time to bind greater daemons for fun.

Sure, it's implied that her soul is doomed, but that's not a problem if you just not die, and dark elves souls are kind of **** anyway, weither you're into chaos or not. My point is that she isn't a chaos "worshipper", she either deal with or take from Slaanesh, but she's not a lowly chaos cultist that slaves for years to maybe get one extra ****, she is only behind Archaon in how much she gained from chaos without paying any real price.

Except Morathi did die...and whatever millenia in beauty and youthfulness she had is nothing compared to an eternity as Slaanesh's plaything. And even after she was released she became a misshapen monster, just like the sorceresses she had once condemned to be Medusae.

I'd say becoming a god in her own right and remaining independent from Chaos is a pretty big win by any standard.

#178396

With any luck in game three with daemons of chaos they’ll rely heavily on chaos corruption and Morathi will get some demon units or something. Giving her access to demonettes and making them rely on chaos corruption in someway would be fitting.

Bereaver#4201

Morathi and Cult of Pleasure were my best friends during my Throgg legendary campaign. She is the only faction with Chaos Corruption which can take settlements everywhere, making her insta best ally for any Chaos faction able to reach Cult of Pleasure.

I also had a blast playing as her and tainting the map with chaos corruption, it is very visually pleasing to morph the map (I love to play as WE, Bretonnia and Vampires for this reason too). Other Chaos factions are surprisingly bad at it because of the constant moving around.

TheShiroOfDalton

Maelas said:

I'd say becoming a god in her own right and remaining independent from Chaos is a pretty big win by any standard.

Not her own doing.

Bogdanov89#9316

I honestly do not know of a good solution for this - because if you ally or confederate Morathi as Malekith (or any other DE) it does not make any sense that suddenly all your leaders and citizens are okay with open practice and worship of Chaos to the point that it desecrates even the ground they walk on.

And yet if you let that chaos corruption occur its a hassle handling the public order and attrition and other penalties.

Perhaps there could be a very high tier DE technology that reduces the POrder and attrition caused by chaos corruption by something like 75%.
That way if you confederate Morathi early on you will still suffer but later on you can research to negate a good chunk of penalties (though it would still hurt a lil).

Murmurlock

She needs to be reworked. CA needs to add some norska roster to her, or give her hidden cult's mechanic. Such a boring implementation, for such a cult(important) character. In the game, she is an ordinary witch from a coven, and CA could make a lot more interesting mechanics, instead what we see now. Imho I think she should have been released not in the second part, but in the third.

Thats why I really hope that CA change their DLC policy. And will start to include there a rework of old lords, maybe in some form of FLC.