Dark Elf vs Beastman Lord Pack and my hopes

frumpyjunk

Dark Elves are my favorite faction, but I recognize the need for the Beastmen to have a serious rework. I'm hoping most dev time goes to them, but I've been brainstorming some ideas for what the dark Elves could get to spice up a new campaign. As it stands, I think that recycling some mechanics from other campaigns could add character to a new dark elf. Here's what I think would be cool and practical:

Legendary Lord: Beastmaster Rakarth
Has his own lore, and his wargear. A solid legendary lord that could feel unique
Faction effects
Rakarth starts on Ulthuan in Tor Dranil or the Shrine of Khaine with a black ark and starting army. His whole deal(and thing missing from the faction as a whole) is slaving other creatures. As such, he would get a mechanic like the Empire has that would give him the opportunity to donate slaves to the major pillars of dark elf society, and if he donated to each of them enough, he'd get a confederation offer from them and a limited time buff. For example, donating to the cult of Khaine could grant him reduced recruitment time/cost forgot sisters of slaughter and witch elves. Donating to the reavers could grant an extra black ark and raiding income, etc.
As a second faction effect, Rakarth himself could get an ability like Yvresses lord capture, but instead of targeting lords, targets fleeing monstrous infantry. After a few turns of torture and replenishment for that squad, that monstrous infantry would get the debuff to stats, upkeep and expendable like Drychas elven units, and could be recruitable to any army. This would help fill a gap in the Dark elf roster while emphasizing slaving. His last faction effect could be to give this capture ability to all his Master heros, master lords, and scourge runner chariots so long as they are in range of black ark support.

Starting on Ulthuan would also give him the opportunity to go fight Norscans(for fimir), to fight Beastmen(minotaurs), lizardmen(kroxigors), wood elves(either Athel Loren or Witchwood(Tree kin), Skaven anywhere(Rat Ogres), or Greenskins(Trolls). Chaos Spawn and undead would not be capturable or recruitable because they are unbreakable or crumble when the necromancer dies, giving a loreful reason for this dark elf faction to want to ally themselves with the tomb Kings, vampire coast, vampire counts or chaos.

It may make sense for them to be able to do the capture ability to some other units, like great eagles, ancient salamanders, feral dinos, manticores or other small single entity monsters.
Last but not least I hope for

New Units for Dark Elves
I'm hoping for Spellthirsters(reskinned magic resistant hydras), a possible Hierotitan-esque Statue of Khaine, and/or Maelithi(ethereal infantry units with frostbite).

As far as Beastmen go, I trust CA to do a good job with their rework, just as they have with the Greenskins, Empire and Brettonian ones.

Thoughts?

Yakinton#1016

DE should not get more DLC, a FLC lord at the most. if they get an FLC lord, better not be a nobody like Rakawho

DeadpoolSW#7283

I like the idea of a Dark Elf LL starting at the Shrine of Khaine, but maybe there is a LL better suited for the location. Perhaps some sort of Avatar of Khaine?

veresh1989

Beastmen should not be in this DLC. They might get the next ones as FLC, but I doubt it. DE has a lot of work

Fossoway#5540

Personally, I believe that for the Beastmen Taurox is the most likely candidate because he shares a theme with the missing BM units - Minotaurs (Ghorgon, Doombull, maybe Bloodkine and Bovigors).

He makes also a lot of sense when paired with two potential DE candidates:
- Beastlord Rakarth obviously makes sense when paired with a monster-oriented lord such as Taurox
- Tullaris Dreadbringer (champion of Khaine) vs Taurox (champion of Khorne) - so Khaine vs Khorne by proxy

However, my real hope is that they're going to include both the Doombull and the Great Bray Shaman. It's unlikely, I know, but the DE are missing only one lord or hero option, the Fleetmaster, who already has a placeholder leading the Black Arks.

The last DLC included 1 lord, 3 new heroes and 2 legendary heroes, so hopefully the BM can get all their lords and hero options too, alongside the Fleetmaster.

sasori1548#7252

IF the next DE starting position is in norhern ulthuan, i would say that tullaris dreadbringer fits better.(even though i would love to see rakarth he has a really cool mask)

Usually the opposing factions of the lord pack start in the same continent. (the only exception being warden&paunch but that only happens if you are playing as grom) So its likely that the beastmen LL will also start in/close to ulthuan. I would say that Moonclaw in albion/islands north of ulthuan sounds really good.

Fossoway#5540

sasori1548 said:

IF the next DE starting position is in norhern ulthuan, i would say that tullaris dreadbringer fits better.(even though i would love to see rakarth he has a really cool mask)

Usually the opposing factions of the lord pack start in the same continent. (the only exception being warden&paunch but that only happens if you are playing as grom) So its likely that the beastmen LL will also start in/close to ulthuan. I would say that Moonclaw in albion/islands north of ulthuan sounds really good.

Something to consider: in a developer stream a while ago they kinda hinted that the new Beastmen starting position would be in the mountains of Naggaroth, around the place where the Sisters of Twilight begin.

Things may have changed since then, but it would still be an interesting starting position for a horde.

frumpyjunk

Yakinton said:

DE should not get more DLC, a FLC lord at the most. if they get an FLC lord, better not be a nobody like Rakawho

All the other Warhammer 2 starting factions now have 6 lords, that's why I think the next one will be dlc. I wouldn't mind Tullaris either as an flc, mostly I want the cool faction effects(and as Imrik and Drycha show, flc factions get quite a bit of work put in). I would personally rather have a dlc Dark elf vs Beastman with a second Beastman LL flc.

PPerun

Do beastmen really need a dlc? Skaven, on the other hand still have a lot of missing units, lords, clans and possible mechanics. They could use a buff too!

frumpyjunk

PPerun said:

Do beastmen really need a dlc? Skaven, on the other hand still have a lot of missing units, lords, clans and possible mechanics. They could use a buff too!

I am hoping for 7 more lords for the Skaven so we can have the full council of 13. I also think a fair buff could be for the rats to get the Brettonian upkeep thing, except skavenslaves are the peasants. It only makes sense for the ratmen to outnumber every other faction at least 10 to 1

Lunaticprince#9972

PPerun said:

Do beastmen really need a dlc? Skaven, on the other hand still have a lot of missing units, lords, clans and possible mechanics. They could use a buff too!

That so obvious bait.


I think Tularis make the most sense because as the last really major chrachter even scare malekith.


But rakath I just not really see him because his theme is already gone.

PPerun

frumpyjunk said:

PPerun said:

Do beastmen really need a dlc? Skaven, on the other hand still have a lot of missing units, lords, clans and possible mechanics. They could use a buff too!

I am hoping for 7 more lords for the Skaven so we can have the full council of 13. I also think a fair buff could be for the rats to get the Brettonian upkeep thing, except skavenslaves are the peasants. It only makes sense for the ratmen to outnumber every other faction at least 10 to 1

Hell yeah
Also, we should get all the special mechanics after confederation. Ikis tech lab, Throts mutating vats and Eshins shadowy dealings altogether. I dont feel I have a proper Skaven experience until its done.
And I want to shoot mutated brood horrors with my warp lightning cannons

#71580

I would be pleased with either Rakarth or Tullaris, both have good arguable case, Rakarth been the beastmaster seems to make a very thematic dlc while Tullaris would make an excellent LL to bring some missing Khaine related units... BM I don't really have an opinion since I don't usually play them very much. The missing question however seems to be: Who will come as a FLC? Boris still feels like the most obvious choice to me, since his whole feud with Khazrak, but at the same time officially implementing him without Ulric's cult units would be kind of lame... Some people hope that the next FLC would be a BM too but I suspect that CA is going to just four in order to end the Warhammer 2 era with the best "level the playing field" feeling as possible...

PhoenixKingMalekith#5710

Rakarth, his own lore? Are you kidding?

His entire lore is about taming a horse, a dragon, a pathetic defeat within minutes in Ulthuan and diying miserably within seconds against Wulfrik.

Saying Rakarth has more lore and importance in Naggaroth than Kouran or Tullaris is so absurdly wrong that you either don’t know the lore of the Druchii or you don’t care about it. This nonsense needs to stop. You ask for Rakarth just for aesthetic/thematic terms, which is hard to connect with the idea of being a DE fan.

Read the lore before making fools of yourselves. This poor beastmaster isn’t on the same league where the regent of Naggaroth or the Avatar of Khaine play.

PPerun

There would be a chance for Rakarth if not for Malus and his appearance with medusae and beastmasters. Now there is no way it won't be Tullaris.

LordSolarMach#5538

Fossoway said:

Something to consider: in a developer stream a while ago they kinda hinted that the new Beastmen starting position would be in the mountains of Naggaroth, around the place where the Sisters of Twilight begin.

Things may have changed since then, but it would still be an interesting starting position for a horde.

Oooooor they were talking about making changes to the map all along, and it had nothing to do with the Beastmen.

That's how I took it at the time.

Yitterbum

It seems game 2 races will end up having 7 LL's, so we will probably get Tullaris as the LL with Shadowblade as a LH in this DLC with Rakarth in game 3 as a FLC LL.

Bloodydagger#9716

Here we go with the Rakarth BS again. The most boring LL possible.

Yakinton#1016

frumpyjunk said:

Yakinton said:

DE should not get more DLC, a FLC lord at the most. if they get an FLC lord, better not be a nobody like Rakawho

All the other Warhammer 2 starting factions now have 6 lords, that's why I think the next one will be dlc. I wouldn't mind Tullaris either as an flc, mostly I want the cool faction effects(and as Imrik and Drycha show, flc factions get quite a bit of work put in). I would personally rather have a dlc Dark elf vs Beastman with a second Beastman LL flc.

5 or 6 is almost the same amount LLs, it is wh1 races that needs more DLCs not wh2 and even if it has to be a WH2 race(hope not) DE is the only faction that is complete unite wise.

There is so many important LL options that will never be added, so don't let more Herman Gorst take more spots, like Rakarth

damon40000#7640

I hope its VC vs Dawi dlc with beastmen flc

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Lunaticprince#9972

damon40000 said:

I hope its VC vs Dawi dlc with beastmen flc

Vc vs David agree but the flc should be for the De

Bm shouldn't be wasted like that.

PhoenixKingMalekith#5710

Mattock said:

Rakarth would be fun, again a bunch a whiny elf fans are taking the suggestion far to personally, but in think the mechanics you suggest would be pretty fun.

I do doubt it will be him and not tularis however, purely as the popular predicted units like aesakhaine and statues of khaine would fit better with tullaris as khaine avatar.

Curiously the ones who ask for Rakarth describe themselves as DE fans to justify their choice. Even more curious, some of these "DE fans" have spoken about the poor sense that DE lore makes, or how the despised the DE. Some of them even said Malus should never come to the game, because he is generic and boring. Funny enough, these same people say this recognizing they didn't read his books.

So I'm sorry if I take the Rakarth suggestion too far, but maybe you should ask yourself why we act like this.

55JoNNo#4925

This boy seems a given:

ArecBalrin#2350

I think CA should have one more try at an original LL, now for Beastmen, who should get 2 LLs in the next DLC and another in the FLC: Cow-Master.

Cow-Master is basically the Ever-Chariot of the Beastmen, and can only exist in the game thanks to half the Elf faction characters being deleted. This instantly makes Cow-Master one of the best LLs to ever be introduced, but that's not all: Cow-Master brings unique mechanics and effects to gameplay. In his presence all missiles look and work like how they did in Shogun 2, small armies don't need to have lords or be part of a horde and can split-off to do something, and Cow-Master can build The Great Chaos Cowpat. The Cowpat is their primary campaign goal, having to return to it every so often to empty their bowels and grow the Cowpat's majesty and size. For each level it increases, negative effects from moon-phases are reduced and income is generated from all the treasures being found in the Cowpat, which Cow-Master must have ate and passed-through.

Why are half the Elven LLs deleted? Where did they go? Well they're beneath the Cowpat of course, where they belong. Cow-Master may or may not have eaten them first, they possibly were just sat in the exact spot where Cow-Master began making The Great Chaos Cowpat, which is what you'd expect a stupid Elf to do.

Cow-Master has an active battle ability where he lays a small cowpat down right there and then, and it summons a Cygor who then throws it.

Mr_Finley7#4571

LordTorquemado said:

Mattock said:

Rakarth would be fun, again a bunch a whiny elf fans are taking the suggestion far to personally, but in think the mechanics you suggest would be pretty fun.

I do doubt it will be him and not tularis however, purely as the popular predicted units like aesakhaine and statues of khaine would fit better with tullaris as khaine avatar.

Curiously the ones who ask for Rakarth describe themselves as DE fans to justify their choice. Even more curious, some of these "DE fans" have spoken about the poor sense that DE lore makes, or how the despised the DE. Some of them even said Malus should never come to the game, because he is generic and boring. Funny enough, these same people say this recognizing they didn't read his books.

So I'm sorry if I take the Rakarth suggestion too far, but maybe you should ask yourself why we act like this.

Guy, I don’t know why you feel so comfortable speaking for all DE fans but you should really fall back with that ****. Rakarth has been around since the early editions, longer than Kouran and Tullaris both and more than a cpl old heads appreciate him from that point alone; we’ve been using him to tell stories for decades.

Give him a cpl new paragraphs of updated lore and he’ll be in the the same ballpark as any of the other DE characters in terms of detail, it’s not hard, and it’s not like GW has delivered detailed masterworks of fiction regarding their army book characters.

No one is saying Kouran and Tullaris aren’t cool, but some of us have at this point realized that we might not get our favorite characters due to thematic and gameplay considerations and it’s not worth getting this worked up over.

SerPus#7395

Mr_Finley7 said:

Rakarth has been around since the early editions, longer than Kouran and Tullaris both

All three were in the 4th edition army book.

Temudhun#3587

Hermodr said:

I would be pleased with either Rakarth or Tullaris, both have good arguable case, Rakarth been the beastmaster seems to make a very thematic dlc while Tullaris would make an excellent LL to bring some missing Khaine related units... BM I don't really have an opinion since I don't usually play them very much. The missing question however seems to be: Who will come as a FLC? Boris still feels like the most obvious choice to me, since his whole feud with Khazrak, but at the same time officially implementing him without Ulric's cult units would be kind of lame... Some people hope that the next FLC would be a BM too but I suspect that CA is going to just four in order to end the Warhammer 2 era with the best "level the playing field" feeling as possible...

Maybe a Norsca flc ? They don't necessarily need rework but they are the only factions with less than 3 LL and they can easily be added to the Vortex map.

Lunaticprince#9972

Temudhun said:

Hermodr said:

I would be pleased with either Rakarth or Tullaris, both have good arguable case, Rakarth been the beastmaster seems to make a very thematic dlc while Tullaris would make an excellent LL to bring some missing Khaine related units... BM I don't really have an opinion since I don't usually play them very much. The missing question however seems to be: Who will come as a FLC? Boris still feels like the most obvious choice to me, since his whole feud with Khazrak, but at the same time officially implementing him without Ulric's cult units would be kind of lame... Some people hope that the next FLC would be a BM too but I suspect that CA is going to just four in order to end the Warhammer 2 era with the best "level the playing field" feeling as possible...

Maybe a Norsca flc ? They don't necessarily need rework but they are the only factions with less than 3 LL and they can easily be added to the Vortex map.

The Problem is that they are a dlc, and drycha showed they just come as Mortal empire exklusive.

Maybe i could be wrong though.

Temudhun#3587

Hamadhunter said:

Temudhun said:

Hermodr said:

I would be pleased with either Rakarth or Tullaris, both have good arguable case, Rakarth been the beastmaster seems to make a very thematic dlc while Tullaris would make an excellent LL to bring some missing Khaine related units... BM I don't really have an opinion since I don't usually play them very much. The missing question however seems to be: Who will come as a FLC? Boris still feels like the most obvious choice to me, since his whole feud with Khazrak, but at the same time officially implementing him without Ulric's cult units would be kind of lame... Some people hope that the next FLC would be a BM too but I suspect that CA is going to just four in order to end the Warhammer 2 era with the best "level the playing field" feeling as possible...

Maybe a Norsca flc ? They don't necessarily need rework but they are the only factions with less than 3 LL and they can easily be added to the Vortex map.

The Problem is that they are a dlc, and drycha showed they just come as Mortal empire exklusive.

Maybe i could be wrong though.

I prefer not regarding any pattern as a law set in stone for all eternity. First we thought most dlc would be race packs, then we thought all lord packs would be about TWW2 races, then we thought there would be no lord packs for dlc races, and here we are...

Mini_Banana#2862

@Temudhun agreed that not all patterns are set in stone, but FLC for previously dlc exclusive races would (in this case norsca) give vanilla players a brand new race and greatly devalue anyone buying the Norsca pack ever again.