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Medieval 3 vs Empire 2

greendolphingreendolphin Registered Users Posts: 25
edited January 4 in Off Topic General
Medieval 3 and Empire 2 titles are most probably the ones that historical fans are waiting for more than any other total war game.

But if you were the one who decides on the next game release, would you choose medieval 3 or empire 2?

Comments

  • Maxim1lianMaxim1lian Registered Users Posts: 54
    Medieval

    And so yes, these are the most popular historical eras in the TW community, at least by requests
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 20,756
    Neither.

    For the time prior to gunpowder a Renaissance period covering the 15th and 16th century period.

    For a gunpowder period, the late 18th through the 19th century - basically a lead up to, and including, the Victoria period. That would encompass the European empire expansion around the world, and could lead to many possibly interesting side campaigns in South America, Africa and Asia theaters.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,722
    I'm still expecting Victoria (maybe Bronze), the new technology, strong stories, unification or mechanics, politics, philosophy, grand alliances, full orchestral OST, DLCs opening up the globe etc.

    Would be interesting if TW could use 'Great Game Mechanics' as in the first cold war being the British Empire and Russia rather than full warfare.
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,555
    Doubt Victoria will be next still feels a way off game tech wise, I do think Medieval 3 might be the next one though.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,722
    Commisar said:

    Doubt Victoria will be next still feels a way off game tech wise, I do think Medieval 3 might be the next one though.

    Considering the leaps made by the ME map I can’t see Victoria being an issue. The fact that the number of settlements have been doubled since Empire I think it’s reasonable that the globe (missing a few land masses (central China maybe being added for DLC) it won’t be an issue.

    In a few years when it’s finally due I’m pretty sure the tech would’ve caught up if not already.
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,555

    Considering the leaps made by the ME map I can’t see Victoria being an issue. The fact that the number of settlements have been doubled since Empire I think it’s reasonable that the globe (missing a few land masses (central China maybe being added for DLC) it won’t be an issue.

    In a few years when it’s finally due I’m pretty sure the tech would’ve caught up if not already.

    Even with the increased number of settlements they still aren't quite to the level of making a global map on the same province style as Empire. Not counting the issues now of the new settlement system compared to the town and ports of Empire.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,722
    Commisar said:

    Considering the leaps made by the ME map I can’t see Victoria being an issue. The fact that the number of settlements have been doubled since Empire I think it’s reasonable that the globe (missing a few land masses (central China maybe being added for DLC) it won’t be an issue.

    In a few years when it’s finally due I’m pretty sure the tech would’ve caught up if not already.

    Even with the increased number of settlements they still aren't quite to the level of making a global map on the same province style as Empire. Not counting the issues now of the new settlement system compared to the town and ports of Empire.
    I think they are. Empire was released over 10 years ago and during the last 3 years it's improved the optimization of the strategy map. I can't see a problem with the globe at all. Even if by some small chance they can't quite do it DLC will be connected to new land mass opportunities as time goes on. Personally though it does seem clear that the current map in ME is evidence enough that a global map is possible.
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,555

    I think they are. Empire was released over 10 years ago and during the last 3 years it's improved the optimization of the strategy map. I can't see a problem with the globe at all. Even if by some small chance they can't quite do it DLC will be connected to new land mass opportunities as time goes on. Personally though it does seem clear that the current map in ME is evidence enough that a global map is possible.

    I've estimated it previously:

    Empire is the largest world map we have to date and has only 137 provinces, WH2 as far as I can tell has 295 settlements. So a little over double the Empire count but the amount of the world left is a lot more than that.

    We had about half of North America, We got just the top of South America, just the top of Africa, missed north of India and all of East Asia and Oceania. Plus province density especially in Europe wasn't great...

    I think currently Empire covers maybe around 25% of the land mass of the globe, removing Antarctica that's around 65% that would need to be added. So to keep density akin to Empire that would require 356.2 provinces. Ignoring how it works these days with city and towns. So it could be feasible but the large size of most provinces might not be great for the detail of the era.

    So expecting WH3s combined campaign to have more than the WH2 one it might be pushing it or mean that by the time of the next historical title they could hit the estimated 256...we'd need another province system rework (I'd be happy with tbh) and we'd have overly sized provinces like we saw in Empire.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,722
    Commisar said:

    I think they are. Empire was released over 10 years ago and during the last 3 years it's improved the optimization of the strategy map. I can't see a problem with the globe at all. Even if by some small chance they can't quite do it DLC will be connected to new land mass opportunities as time goes on. Personally though it does seem clear that the current map in ME is evidence enough that a global map is possible.

    I've estimated it previously:

    Empire is the largest world map we have to date and has only 137 provinces, WH2 as far as I can tell has 295 settlements. So a little over double the Empire count but the amount of the world left is a lot more than that.

    We had about half of North America, We got just the top of South America, just the top of Africa, missed north of India and all of East Asia and Oceania. Plus province density especially in Europe wasn't great...

    I think currently Empire covers maybe around 25% of the land mass of the globe, removing Antarctica that's around 65% that would need to be added. So to keep density akin to Empire that would require 356.2 provinces. Ignoring how it works these days with city and towns. So it could be feasible but the large size of most provinces might not be great for the detail of the era.

    So expecting WH3s combined campaign to have more than the WH2 one it might be pushing it or mean that by the time of the next historical title they could hit the estimated 256...we'd need another province system rework (I'd be happy with tbh) and we'd have overly sized provinces like we saw in Empire.
    In actual fact Mortal Empires currently has 300+ settlements and we can expect to see that go to 450+ making ME over 3 times larger than Empire and a lot larger than the original map.

    Also, in reference to equating land mass directly to amount of provinces, I don't think that works, how many major settlements do you think Australia will have? Probably 4 at most, so land mass does not equate to amount of settlements.

    There's just no comparison, the ME map is clearer proof than you need to show CA is ready for Victoria TW.
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,555

    In actual fact Mortal Empires currently has 300+ settlements and we can expect to see that go to 450+ making ME over 3 times larger than Empire and a lot larger than the original map.

    Also, in reference to equating land mass directly to amount of provinces, I don't think that works, how many major settlements do you think Australia will have? Probably 4 at most, so land mass does not equate to amount of settlements.

    There's just no comparison, the ME map is clearer proof than you need to show CA is ready for Victoria TW.

    TW:WH wiki lists it at 295, not sure how much they've added via DLC and if that's been added to that list though..

    It tends to, as that would be rather too scattered to have a province over it and with all the little islands scattered around the world that were also take adds even more provinces yet take up very little land mass.

    We need to wait and see how large the combined campaign is for WH3. It would still implicate that Victoria isn't any time soon as they'd need to wait for the improvements to be ported over to the historical line. And would still have the issues of how settlements have worked since Empire.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,722
    Commisar said:

    In actual fact Mortal Empires currently has 300+ settlements and we can expect to see that go to 450+ making ME over 3 times larger than Empire and a lot larger than the original map.

    Also, in reference to equating land mass directly to amount of provinces, I don't think that works, how many major settlements do you think Australia will have? Probably 4 at most, so land mass does not equate to amount of settlements.

    There's just no comparison, the ME map is clearer proof than you need to show CA is ready for Victoria TW.

    TW:WH wiki lists it at 295, not sure how much they've added via DLC and if that's been added to that list though..

    It tends to, as that would be rather too scattered to have a province over it and with all the little islands scattered around the world that were also take adds even more provinces yet take up very little land mass.

    We need to wait and see how large the combined campaign is for WH3. It would still implicate that Victoria isn't any time soon as they'd need to wait for the improvements to be ported over to the historical line. And would still have the issues of how settlements have worked since Empire.
    The latest wiki states 300+ due to DLC, a load were added with the latest DLC.

    No, I don't think it would, if you look at Indonesia with thousands of islands you will still probably get 2 main provinces. Random cut off island may get a single strategic base option but that's about it.

    I can't see any issues that would make it easier or harder as we don't know how provinces would work in future games, it's all guesswork. All things equal though there's no reason why they can't do it with the current level of tech.
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,555

    The latest wiki states 300+ due to DLC, a load were added with the latest DLC.

    No, I don't think it would, if you look at Indonesia with thousands of islands you will still probably get 2 main provinces. Random cut off island may get a single strategic base option but that's about it.

    I can't see any issues that would make it easier or harder as we don't know how provinces would work in future games, it's all guesswork. All things equal though there's no reason why they can't do it with the current level of tech.

    Yeah not sure if it's upto date or if anyone cares to count them all with each patch lol would be useful if CA could at least keep a public track of it.

    Would still expect them to have multiple provinces and all the other islands such as Falklands and Hawaii for example. It would also be needed to try to cover these areas to make doing a global game worth while.

    We have how they've moved for the past few games, they've gone away from the Empire type and they are now far more limited in range but also very generic - you're new city in Australia can be just as built up as your thousand year capital.
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