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Suggesting Legendary Heroes for Races
Riskafish
Registered Users Posts: 829
We have three legendary heroes in the game and can use them to suggest the requirements of a legendary hero. Let me know what you think.
All legendary hero have a..
Connection to their entire race.
Demigod status / servant of race god.
thematically fit their races purpose.
Ariel (Wood Elves)
Queen of Athel Loren
Avatar of Isha. Isha is the Goddess of Fertility, Nature, Harvest, Bountiful Land, protector of the natural order and mother of the Elven race.
Connected to Oak of Ages, focus of Wood Elves..
Lord Kroak (Lizardmen)
Oldest of the first generation Slan (Lizardmen leadership) and defender of Itza, the first city.
Student of the Old Ones, taught magic by Old one Tepok. Old ones are gods that crated the world to fight chaos.
Working towards Old Ones Great Plan even in death, focus of Lizardmen.
The Green Knight (Bretonnia)
Founder of Bretonnia, first king,
Serves the Lady, Bretonnian Goddess. Also resides in Isle of Bliss which is her realm.
Defends those in need, defends Bretonnias sacred places, tests questing knights before they become grail knights.
We can also use this to suggest possible legandary heroes for other races.
Valten (Empire)
Rebirth of Sigmar, founder of the Empire.
Sigmar is the principle god of war for the Empire. Holds SIgmar divine essense.
Helped unite the Empire against a common threat.
Nagash(Vampire Counts)
Creator of Necromancy and Vampire Counts.
Great lord of undeath.
Undead obsessed with power, control and black magic like the Vampire Count lords.
Grombrindal (Dwarves)
First High King of the Dwarves.
Son of Grugni and Valaya, Dwarf ancestor gods.
Helps his race in need to settle the Dwarves grudges, focus of the Dwarves.
(Grombrindal is a lord but he is FLC, doesn't have his own start location yet and has a competlely unique blue skill tree already.)
Wurzag (Greenskins)
Works to advance all orc kind rather than single tribe.
Prophet of Gork and Mork.
Leads Greenskins into battle, conflict is main theme of greenskins. Also has a comedy aspect
.
(Already a lord but FLC and no other god associated character, Skarnsik and Grimgor are already in game and only avat of one of the two gods.)
Gorthor (Beastmen)
United Tribes under him but with vision, greatest beastlord, name on almost all herdstones.
Believed he was emissary of the gods to combat the spread of man, talked to gods in trance after fight.
Attacked Empire with suprise and focused on all out charge, speed is focus of Beastmen.
(he dead but chaos champions can be resurrected by gods)
Skreech Verminking (Skaven)
Created by Horned rat merging all of the council of 13 into one being, including all great clans
Given horned rats power
Described as the ultimate scavenger and constantly plotting whcih is Skaven theme.
(Thanquol also has potentially since he has ordered all clans and his actions are more agent like than lord like).
Tullaris Dreadbringer/ Ritual to become Avatar of Khaine? (Dark Elves)
Khaine is god of Murder, sword of khaine led to the sundering and the creation of the Dark Elves. Works iwth Helebron but not loyal to her over Khaine who sis true master.
Malekith claims to be mortal avatar of khaine but Tulaaris true herald of Khaine.
The theme of murder and bloodshed is Dark Elves theme. Also not loyal to Hellebron or Malekith so theme of betrayal?
(shadowblade not associated with god, can buff shades as lord aswell)
Caledor Dragontamer (High Elves)
Not dead, just stuck in Vortex which is centre of Ulthalon and important for all world.
Proclaimed Anarion champion of Asuryan (head god) and used vauls anvil (another god) to help make armour for him.
Asociated with magic and dragons, themes of High Elves. Also rejected sword of Khaine unlike Anarion and tried tos top him using it.
(Anerion could be used as a legendary hero but he is dead, that said since he used the sword of khaine and was morathis husband and Malekiths father he could even be a Dark Elves legenary hero.
Apophas (Tomb Kings)
Prince of Numas, has worked with other lords such as Settra attacking Chaos.
Works for God Usirian trying to find soul of equal worth of his own for his freedom.
He was royalty, a prince, eternally cursed and never to rest, theme of tomb kings.
Jheago Roth (Vampire Coast)
Leader of Grand Aliiance opposing dreadfleet, suggested dead by Moondial for Noctilus quest. Connected to Sartosa/Aranessa.
No direct god of Vampire Coast but connected to the sea which ahs been worshiped as a god (Mannan).
Got his ship Heldenhammer by stealing it form Volkmar, piracy is theme of Vampire Coast.
(Difficult to find suitable one).
All legendary hero have a..
Connection to their entire race.
Demigod status / servant of race god.
thematically fit their races purpose.
Ariel (Wood Elves)
Queen of Athel Loren
Avatar of Isha. Isha is the Goddess of Fertility, Nature, Harvest, Bountiful Land, protector of the natural order and mother of the Elven race.
Connected to Oak of Ages, focus of Wood Elves..
Lord Kroak (Lizardmen)
Oldest of the first generation Slan (Lizardmen leadership) and defender of Itza, the first city.
Student of the Old Ones, taught magic by Old one Tepok. Old ones are gods that crated the world to fight chaos.
Working towards Old Ones Great Plan even in death, focus of Lizardmen.
The Green Knight (Bretonnia)
Founder of Bretonnia, first king,
Serves the Lady, Bretonnian Goddess. Also resides in Isle of Bliss which is her realm.
Defends those in need, defends Bretonnias sacred places, tests questing knights before they become grail knights.
We can also use this to suggest possible legandary heroes for other races.
Valten (Empire)
Rebirth of Sigmar, founder of the Empire.
Sigmar is the principle god of war for the Empire. Holds SIgmar divine essense.
Helped unite the Empire against a common threat.
Nagash(Vampire Counts)
Creator of Necromancy and Vampire Counts.
Great lord of undeath.
Undead obsessed with power, control and black magic like the Vampire Count lords.
Grombrindal (Dwarves)
First High King of the Dwarves.
Son of Grugni and Valaya, Dwarf ancestor gods.
Helps his race in need to settle the Dwarves grudges, focus of the Dwarves.
(Grombrindal is a lord but he is FLC, doesn't have his own start location yet and has a competlely unique blue skill tree already.)
Wurzag (Greenskins)
Works to advance all orc kind rather than single tribe.
Prophet of Gork and Mork.
Leads Greenskins into battle, conflict is main theme of greenskins. Also has a comedy aspect
.(Already a lord but FLC and no other god associated character, Skarnsik and Grimgor are already in game and only avat of one of the two gods.)
Gorthor (Beastmen)
United Tribes under him but with vision, greatest beastlord, name on almost all herdstones.
Believed he was emissary of the gods to combat the spread of man, talked to gods in trance after fight.
Attacked Empire with suprise and focused on all out charge, speed is focus of Beastmen.
(he dead but chaos champions can be resurrected by gods)
Skreech Verminking (Skaven)
Created by Horned rat merging all of the council of 13 into one being, including all great clans
Given horned rats power
Described as the ultimate scavenger and constantly plotting whcih is Skaven theme.
(Thanquol also has potentially since he has ordered all clans and his actions are more agent like than lord like).
Tullaris Dreadbringer/ Ritual to become Avatar of Khaine? (Dark Elves)
Khaine is god of Murder, sword of khaine led to the sundering and the creation of the Dark Elves. Works iwth Helebron but not loyal to her over Khaine who sis true master.
Malekith claims to be mortal avatar of khaine but Tulaaris true herald of Khaine.
The theme of murder and bloodshed is Dark Elves theme. Also not loyal to Hellebron or Malekith so theme of betrayal?
(shadowblade not associated with god, can buff shades as lord aswell)
Caledor Dragontamer (High Elves)
Not dead, just stuck in Vortex which is centre of Ulthalon and important for all world.
Proclaimed Anarion champion of Asuryan (head god) and used vauls anvil (another god) to help make armour for him.
Asociated with magic and dragons, themes of High Elves. Also rejected sword of Khaine unlike Anarion and tried tos top him using it.
(Anerion could be used as a legendary hero but he is dead, that said since he used the sword of khaine and was morathis husband and Malekiths father he could even be a Dark Elves legenary hero.
Apophas (Tomb Kings)
Prince of Numas, has worked with other lords such as Settra attacking Chaos.
Works for God Usirian trying to find soul of equal worth of his own for his freedom.
He was royalty, a prince, eternally cursed and never to rest, theme of tomb kings.
Jheago Roth (Vampire Coast)
Leader of Grand Aliiance opposing dreadfleet, suggested dead by Moondial for Noctilus quest. Connected to Sartosa/Aranessa.
No direct god of Vampire Coast but connected to the sea which ahs been worshiped as a god (Mannan).
Got his ship Heldenhammer by stealing it form Volkmar, piracy is theme of Vampire Coast.
(Difficult to find suitable one).
Tagged:
Comments
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1 · Disagree AgreeKonrad von Carstien is the last character from V Counts 8th, so it's likely he'll show up at some point, but he would be a good LH. We have 3 Von Carstiens already and V Counts need to be necromancers for them to build their armies. Konrad ain't a necromancer.
Aphophas is a great canidate also. Through him in a DLC with Sehenesmet as LL and Khemric Titan as a centerpiece unit and you have a great DLC.
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1 · Disagree AgreeMoonclaw works aswell because he has a connection to Morslieb. I certainly think he is a much cooler character than Gorthor and it depends if you consider the gods of chaos or morslieb to be the beastmen divinity.
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1 · Disagree AgreeI politely disagree. Moonclaw LL is my preference. Gorthor is my prefered LH for BM, but I think Slugtounge is a good choice also. Some loser like the Harbinger from the End Times would work better instead of squandering the potential of characters like Moonclaw or Ungrol imo.
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1 · Disagree AgreeMoonclaw a LH???
Tullaris a LH?????
Caledor Dragontamer??????
What the?
Tullaris will most likely be in the next LP and is basically guaranteed after the picture of the Khaine Statue.
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5 · Disagree Agree- Report
2 · Disagree AgreeAriel, in lore, is rather erratic, and rarely leaves Athel Loren at all; she's mostly just tending to the forest. Most matters of managing armies are probably left to Orion and the glade lords. It kind of makes sense for her to be a hero choice because of that; she'll take the field and do her own thing, but she's not really the one directing the forces.
The Green Knight, again, is not a character that actually commands people. The Green Knight didn't even speak; nobody knew who/what he was until the end times.
From a lore perspective, all three fit pretty well as heroes instead of lords in the context of Total War.
On that note, the remaining characters for the current factions that would fit as legendary heroes (that aren't already in the game), are the following:
Beastmen: Moonclaw, Son of Morrslieb, or maybe Slugtongue. None of the other characters would fit right as a hero instead of a lord. Gorthor would make no sense at all as a legendary hero. Moonclaw is certainly the most fit for the role, and it might make more sense than having him as a lord.
Dark Elves: Shadowblade, Tullaris, or Kouran Darkhand could all work as legendary heroes.
Dwarfs: Josef Bugman, Grimm Burloksson
Empire: Ludwig Shwarzheim, Jubal Falk
High Elves: Caradryan, Captain of the Phoenix Guard or Korhil would work as legenadary heroes
Greenskins: Gitilla Da Hunter or Snagla Grobspit
Lizardmen: Chakax, Oxyotl
Tomb Kings: The Herald Nekaph, Ramhotep, or Prince Apophas could all work as legenadary heroes.
Warriors of Chaos: Scyla Anfingrimm and Sayl the Faithless probably make the most sense.
Vampire Counts: Krell, Isabella (frankly, both should have been legendary heroes, IMO). Konrad could work as one, but in lore, he was very much a "lord" (for the context of total war), as he didn't follow the orders of anyone else; his lack of skill in magic meant he couldn't actually raise his own armies, but he did command the necromancers that served him.
Daemons of Chaos: The Blue Scribes, The Changeling, Karanak
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0 · Disagree AgreeOxyotl as a sneaky Ranged Focused LM faction, Snagla as a Forest Gobbo faction, Bugman for a beer brewing mechanic and Moonclaw because LH just doesn’t make sense for him.
We really have to stop with that LH nonsense.
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0 · Disagree AgreeSchwarzhelm, Jubal, Bruckner, Von Korden
Dwarfs:
Snorri Nosebiter, Bazrag Bolgar
GS:
Borgut Facebeater
VC:
Krell (proper LH not a gimmick)
HE:
Finubar, Korhil, Caradryan
DE:
Shadowblade, Kouran
LM:
Chakax
TK:
Nekhap
VCoast
Captain Drekla
Skaven
Verminking
BM:
The Harbinger
WoC:
Scyla Anfingrimm, Galrauch
Edit:
Sehenesmet should be a LL, Nekhap is a better LH.
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0 · Disagree AgreeAlso Sehenesmet is a High Liche Priest, you know a Lord type. Why would he be a LH? Apohpas is literally just a pile of Scarabs and a Skull, he doesn't command anyone, nor does anyone like him. No one would follow him. He is the ultimate LH. If he's a LL pretty much everyone should be a LL at that point.
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1 · Disagree AgreeHe could be a LL but there are to many better options with Emil Valgeir, Elspeth von Draken and Kurt Helborg.
In a Perfect world, I would go for:
Elspeth LP + Jubal ME FLC in Nuln
Emil Valgeir LP + Kurt Helborg ME FLC
Apophas is way to cool and complex to be a stupid LH. Sehenesmet should be the 6th LL to be honest since if TK will get a LP, they also need a FLC like Drycha.
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0 · Disagree AgreeAphopas being cool doesn't mean he should be leading armies. He has no power, no influence, no thematic units, no respect, no kingdom, nothing. His whole character is he is on a personal quest to get rid of his curse. If he is a LL then CA forsake everything about the character for a cheap gimmick. It's as bad as making Ariel a LH because the reasons don't make sense.
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2 · Disagree Agree- NAGASH? "I bow to no one and **** the gods" NAGASH? "The whole world will be dead and enslaved to do MY biding" NAGASH? In what world would it make sense that Ghorst or Isabella command Nagash around?
- Gorthor? The Everchosen of the Beastmen, who is technically 1000 years dead at this point, shall be a hero for lesser Beastmen? Why not let Ghorst be a LL and make Mannfred his legendary hero next.
------Red DoxMissing units and other possible stuff (work in Progress)
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7 · Disagree AgreeThat being said, both Jubal and Elspeth should be LLs. I really hope CA will adapt the Drycha type of FLC for future crossover LPs.
This way we could get Elspeth as a LP on an expedition in the Dark Lands and Jubal as a Free LL back home in Nuln if you own WH1.
Apophas is Perfect as a LL, he would try to end his curse so could basically start everywhere against anyone. Sehenesmet would be a great Drycha type Free LL focusing on constructs.
This would bring TK on 6 LLs which is great.
The ideal LH for TK would be Nekhap since he is a bodyguard type character like Schwarzhelm or Korhil.
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
2 · Disagree Agree- Report
2 · Disagree AgreeSchwartzhelm, Huss, Nekaph, Crom, Shadowblade are good LH choices- Nagash is most certainly not.
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3 · Disagree AgreeFLC for Jubal is no good. He would bring in a very important theme for the Empire in Gunpowder. Currently the V coast is a better gunpowder faction then the Gunpowder race. Empire Engineers, Hochland Long Rifles, Nuln Ironsides and The Deliverance would make for a thematic DLC for gunpowder capital of Nuln. Elspeth will probably get Nuln instead just because she has a dragon though.
How is he perfect? His curse can't be cure, that's the point. The god tricked him to a doomed existance. Besides his model he has no theme or reason to be an LL. Nekaph actually makes more sense as a LL, because he holds actual power and respect just by being Settra's bodyguard. Aphopas had everything taken from him when he was murdered. If he is an LL his story becomes; A prince murdered his whole family so he could rule Numas. The people were disgusted and so gave him a horrible death. He is a coward even in death, so he bargains his soul with a god, who ressurects him in an eternal tortuous quest to find a soul that doesn't exist. Then for some reason he gets what he wanted originally and rules Numas with a grand army for no reason. So he gets what he wants in the end, great curse. If his mechanic is to pay his dept also what happens then? He dies presumably. So the end game reward is your LL dies. Cool.
I don't get it either, as a LH he'd still get the model and animations which is the only reason people like him, just we get another actual LL like Sehenesmet or Ramotep and a thematic DLC instead of a Malus style through random stuff in a DLC. Or we get something like generic scarab lords or something trash like that. I do think CA will choose Apohpas for DLC though, because they don't care about lore at all and money trumps having to make a new appearnce for characters like Sen and Ramotep.
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0 · Disagree AgreeAt the battle of Nuln it was Tamurkkhan vs Elspeth so she makes the most sense as a LL even if some people have personal bias against her.
So the only chance for Jubal would be FLC or LH. CA will never pick him instead of Elspeth. We all know it. It simply won’t happen.
Ramothep seems like a LH or shouldn’t come at all in my opinion. I don’t see what he would add to be honest.
Apophas makes the most sense to be outside of Nehekhara and his model is simply to extra to be just wasted as a LH.
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0 · Disagree AgreeAphopas should be a LL because his model is "too extra to be wasted". What does that even mean? What should his mechanics be? If you think he should be a LL I want to know what you think he'd do.
None of these are actual reasons or arguments. If you don't want to make an argument just ignore me lol. I prefer that to non-reasons.
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeLet’s check the pros/cons (+/-):
Elspeth:
+ mysterious Dark Character
+ Very unique lore
+ Dragon Rider
+ Unique hybrid melee/Caster
+ Wizard theme
+ Unique death Wizard
+ Nuln theme
+ Tamurkkhan Rivalry
+ Magisterix of the Amethyst Order
+ Does her own thing all the time
+ Does expeditions
+ Female (very important for CA for some reason)
+ Fan favourite
+ Very unique model
- Reeeeeee Me no want her Reeeeeeee
- Reeeee she to dark me cannot sleep Reeeeee
Jubal:
+ Nuln theme
+ Gunpowder
- just another Ranged LL (yay)
- Another boring footlord
- Lame generic Model
- Just a named Engineer
- very Minor character
- just a Regiment Captain
- Unimportant underling
- no reason to ever leave Nuln
- No real rivalry to Tamurkkhan
- Another Sausage (CA always aims for Diversity within a Race)
Yeah.... doesn’t look so good for Jubal.
The only arguments that the few very vocal Elspeth haters have is „I don’t like her“ or „She is to dark“ which is purely subjective and completely nonsensical. She’s called the Dark Lady of Nuln for a reason.
Elspeth is objectively the better choice like it or not.
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1 · Disagree AgreeDE: Kouran or Shadowblade
HE and WE: Aenur
Caledor Dragontamer, hm, him I see as LH, yes, but tied to one of a kind event, one that could potentially lead to Ulthuan's destruction.
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1 · Disagree AgreeElspeth commanded the Defense of Nuln. Both Bruckner and Falk were underlings.
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree Agree#JusticeForDaemonsOfChaos
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree AgreeDark character = subjective if that's better or not. Dark characters can be written well or poorly. In gameplay terms it means nothing.
unique lore = to the empire no. They have death casters already. As an LL yes that is a point in her favour.
dragon rider = despite being subjective if this is good or not, I find this a reason she's more generic. We have plenty of dragon riders and if you want to be technical Franz can also be one, since he has the Imperial dragon.
unique hybrid = So the same point as before. Ok, same with wizard theme (Guess RIP Gelt lol)
Nuln theme = My whole contention is she doesn't share Nuln's theme. Nuln is the Gunpowder capital of the Empire. GW wrote a character who is a caster to represent Nuln. Stupid
Tamurkhan is not a point in her favour. He is his own thing.
Amythest Order = Wizard theme again. Ok.
Does her own thing = Great qualities in a leader. Expeditions is the same thing.
Female = Irrelevant. Who tf cares about the gender of an LL?
Fan Favourite = Argumentum ad populum is a fallacy for a reason.
Unique Model = It's a caster on a dragon. Never had one of those before. The argument should be she has one.
Ree = You're adding this to me, when I never made that argument. My argument was about Falk and Apohpas. You do this because it's easier if I'm made of Straw rather than asking for my actual reasons which this wasn't even about.
Ree again = Tf even is this one?
JUBAL
First two already mentioned
Ranged LL = Another one? You think archers and guns are the same ? Ok. How many LLs with actual firearms do we have vs dragon riders?
Boring footlord = You think CA wouldn't give him a mount? The Deliverance is a literal Steam Tank. I always thought it obvious they'd give him one, even if I find it unessacry. Also you're putting your subjectivitey when you add boring as a qualifier.
Model = Yeah, he's a human. Elspeth is also just a human. Like to hear why either of them are interesting models tbh, my interest is mechanics with human LLs.
Named Engineer = This can be applied to alot of characters and it's a rabbit hole I assume you don't actually want to go down. Objectively this is correct though.
Minor = Who cares? Moonclaw is minor, not gonna stop him from being an interesting LL. Minor or Popular means little.
Regiment = OK?
Underling = Ah the lackey argument. Elspeth is a lackey of the Nuln leaders, but I assume this doesn't matter for some reason. Objectively both are lackeys. Who cares also?
No reason to leave Nuln = I thought he was regiment captain? As in, actively in combat?
Tamurkhan = Why does Tamurkhan have to be involved? Markus was paired up with a Lizardmen, CA pair up characters with what they think is thematic.
Another Male = NOT A MALE! If this an actual reason than IDK what to even think.
Assuming my arguments before I've made them is always fun, but I wasn't even talking about Elspeth. I was talking about Jubal and mostly Apohpas. Most of your reasons are subjective and the objective ones you put bias into. I think the argument that she's popular is objectively why CA would add her over anyone else, but it doesn't make her better. Just more viable. I'd like to hear your opinions on what makes Aphopas an "objectively" better LL then actual TKs with power and influence rather than talking about Elspeth tbh. I don't care that much about her, I care about Jubal and the Gunpowder capital treated correctly and not doing another Aranessa with Nuln.
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeEmpire:
Pure Caster: Gelt
Hybrid Caster: Elspeth
GS:
Pure Caster: Wurzag
Hybrid Caster: Azhag
DE:
Pure Caster: Morathi
Hybrid Caster: Malekith
HE:
Pure Caster: Allarielle
Hybrid Caster: Eltharion
LM:
Pure Caster: Mazdamundi
Hybrid Caster: Tehenhauin
So it’s a clear pattern that CA likes to add Characters with unique battle roles:
- Pure Melee
- Ranged/Sneaky
- Pure Caster
- Hybrid Caster
- Monster Rider
- Support
And because I can already hear the „Elspeth shouldn’t represent Nuln“ argument.
Luckily should wouldn’t start in Nuln anyways since she would be a WH3 LL.
We shouldn’t get a LL in Nuln at all since that’s literally just between Franz and Gelt. Would be like putting a Dwarf LL in Zhufbar....
Jubal can be FLC or LH but the LP LL should and most definitely will be Elspeth.
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0 · Disagree Agree