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Missed oppertunities in WH2

TheWattmanTheWattman Junior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 494
The recent teaser all but confirms the end of WH2's lifecycle, with only a presumable pre-order left in the Steam Database. It has been quite a ride and much good has come out of it. Certainly it was the bigger success of the two WH games so far. But its not without its flaws and shall we say, missed oppertunities to bring some more or less obvious content additions in relation to the playable map. With this Im particularly refering to some factions and starting positions that never got used to their fullest potential and I'd like to present and discuss some of the ones that Im gonna miss the most once we move on to the third game.


First off, there is of course the non-inclusion of minor races like Amazons, Araby and Albion (Dogs of War will come, either as pre-order or later in WH3), but I'd prefer, atleast initially, to talk about the races and factions that are already implemented in order to not get bogged down in a too far-stretched hypothetical discussion.

1. Sudenburg and Kurt Helborg
This is perhaps one of the most blaringly obvious things that have been left out of this game so far. Its also related to the 2nd grievance. Sudenburg is a well-established, official Imperial colony at the edge of Araby/Nehekhara and more than anything its a legitimate and challenging start for the Empire. And yet, it was neglected and eventually put out as the punching bag of Clan Eshin, instead of being the logical base of imperial operations in the Vortex map. And Kurt Helborg makes much more, atleast lorewise, sense to send on an overseas expedition rather than the other marshall. That one has a greater rivalry with Beastmen and other more traditional Old World enemies of the Empire (argueably the perfect candidate for a Beastmen-update LP), plus he isn't known to covet riches like he is made out to be. On the other hand, Helborg has been mentioned to have been sent to the deserts of Araby and the War-Wagons could've easily been transfered to Helborg alongside Reiksguard Infantry, crusading Knights Panther and other Reikland/generic Empire-connected units and hero Valten. As for Clan Eshin's position, they could've easily just been pluncked into Bel Aliad in the central desert, or northeastern Lustria, rather than blocking Sudenburg's potential.


2. Bregonne
The Huntsmarshall is even more problematic, as he also blocked a potentially very interesting and again very logical position for a Bretonnian start on the Vortex map. Bregonne is one of the few established colonies Lustria alongside the New World Colonies, established by Lord Marcel d'Parravon. He himself isn't a major character warranting inclusion, but the very existance of Bregonne would have been enough to validate a Bretonnian start on the Vortex. Don't get me wrong, the addition of Repanse was very welcome and adequate. Its the fact that the Huntsmarshall blocked the area around Bregonne in his addition and with the additional insult of the addition of Rodrik de L'Anguille in the Huntsmarshal's ranks, a more arrogant version of Marcel, that bug me.


3. Sartosa and Cylostra over other Dreadfleet members
The Vampire Coast certainly is something isn't it? Incredibly powerful at launch and still is and the first and probably only example of CA inventing new Warhammer characters on their own. Thing is, they didn't need to. There are more than enough undead pirates to fill a 4-space race pack without having to invent a new character or move a predominantly NOT-UNDEAD Sartosa into the fold. There is Vangheist, but perhaps even more prominently, Skretch and the undead skaven crew of the Skrabus. Imagine an undead Skaven roster instead of the feeble 2 units of living Sartosa pirates that's suppose to differentiate Aranessa. There is even the Tombpirates under Amanhotep the Intolerant or even Nanosh of the Strigoi-crewed Unternehmung. Sartosa should've been a haven of living outlaws rather than another Undead outpost.


What do you think guys? What are some of the more prominent things that have been overlooked by WH2?
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Comments

  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Registered Users Posts: 3,799
    Like for Helborg.
  • TemudhunTemudhun Member Registered Users Posts: 529
    I didn't know about Nanosh, now I want him in the game!

    Regarding Sartosa, I'm wondering if the living pirates shouldn't have been part of the Dogs of War.
  • Jote191Jote191 Registered Users Posts: 450
    There's a mod that makes Sartosa so much better. I literally cannot play without it installed. The name was Nanu's Pirates of Sartosa Overhaul. Good stuff👍

    In terms of missing stuff.... Araby!!! But I already excepted that they're dead and want to move on :,)
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,703
    edited February 1
    Like for the part 3.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 11,043
    edited February 1
    Bretonnia Dlc
    Repanse not being dlc
    Araby

    The big three.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,251
    3. Couldn’t care less. They may or may not have been better.

    The other 2 could appear in game 3 just like any other race/faction.
  • SerpentarSerpentar Registered Users Posts: 24

    Don't get me wrong, the addition of Repanse was very welcome and adequate.

    You mentioned that Cylostra and Aranessa took place of better potential lords, to which I fully agree. Consider now that one of the very few limited spots for Bretonnian LLs was taken by resurrected dead Repanse. How is it welcome and adequate?
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 9,860
    Araby.
    Southern Realm Conquistadors in the New World (slightly off set by putting Wulfhart there).
    Making the Mortal Empires map TWW2 sections feel less stumped.

    And that's just the things that are about adding content. Nothing in there about changing the content to have the world feel a bit more alive.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,034
    Serpentar said:

    Don't get me wrong, the addition of Repanse was very welcome and adequate.

    You mentioned that Cylostra and Aranessa took place of better potential lords, to which I fully agree. Consider now that one of the very few limited spots for Bretonnian LLs was taken by resurrected dead Repanse. How is it welcome and adequate?
    So instead of giving us generic Knight number 3; they gave us an actually interesting and unique LL?

    Alberic has the whole regular Brettonian Knightly lord thing down; he doesn't need competitors.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,461
    The original old world reworks barely scratched the surface of what those races needed.

    I still can't sleep at night thinking about how bad that Nechrarch kitbash model is.
    81jt2dj75iky.png


    Kia Kaha and C'est La Vie Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • Steph_F_DavidSteph_F_David Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,732
    Araby
    TEB with their own units names and textures instead of placeholder
    Full map for Southlands / Lustria. May be less detailed, but not cropped!
  • Giveaway412Giveaway412 Registered Users Posts: 871

    Serpentar said:

    Don't get me wrong, the addition of Repanse was very welcome and adequate.

    You mentioned that Cylostra and Aranessa took place of better potential lords, to which I fully agree. Consider now that one of the very few limited spots for Bretonnian LLs was taken by resurrected dead Repanse. How is it welcome and adequate?
    So instead of giving us generic Knight number 3; they gave us an actually interesting and unique LL?

    Alberic has the whole regular Brettonian Knightly lord thing down; he doesn't need competitors.
    Honestly, in my opinion, it was a mistake to add Alberic instead of Bohemond. Bohemond would take roughly the same amount of work to implement while starting in roughly the same place, but he'd be much more interesting and more important than Alberic.
  • TemudhunTemudhun Member Registered Users Posts: 529
    Serpentar said:

    Don't get me wrong, the addition of Repanse was very welcome and adequate.

    You mentioned that Cylostra and Aranessa took place of better potential lords, to which I fully agree. Consider now that one of the very few limited spots for Bretonnian LLs was taken by resurrected dead Repanse. How is it welcome and adequate?
    I suspect they initially planned to use Baron Odo d'Outremer but changed their mind at some point so Odo turned into Repanse and Suliman the Saracen became Henri le Massif while his name was attributed to Repanse's horse.
  • DeadpoolSWDeadpoolSW Registered Users Posts: 2,215
    The fact that they gave up on giving us new races, making the likelihood of seeing Araby, Amazons, or Albion any time soon practically 0.
    Nagash will rule again!

    Justice for Chaos Dwarfs, Ogre Kingdoms, Araby, Albion, Amazons, Halflings, Nippon, Ind & the Hobgoblin Khanate!
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 9,860

    Serpentar said:

    Don't get me wrong, the addition of Repanse was very welcome and adequate.

    You mentioned that Cylostra and Aranessa took place of better potential lords, to which I fully agree. Consider now that one of the very few limited spots for Bretonnian LLs was taken by resurrected dead Repanse. How is it welcome and adequate?
    So instead of giving us generic Knight number 3; they gave us an actually interesting and unique LL?

    Alberic has the whole regular Brettonian Knightly lord thing down; he doesn't need competitors.
    Honestly, in my opinion, it was a mistake to add Alberic instead of Bohemond. Bohemond would take roughly the same amount of work to implement while starting in roughly the same place, but he'd be much more interesting and more important than Alberic.
    Alberic though is the Lord of the Seas and bountiful trading. In lieu of having a Marienburger LL he is the best thing since fat merchants were introduced as playable characters in pen and paper RPGs.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • FungusHoundFungusHound Registered Users Posts: 4,817

    The fact that they gave up on giving us new races, making the likelihood of seeing Araby, Amazons, or Albion any time soon practically 0.

    I suspect that has more to do with GW than anything else
  • SerpentarSerpentar Registered Users Posts: 24

    Serpentar said:

    Don't get me wrong, the addition of Repanse was very welcome and adequate.

    You mentioned that Cylostra and Aranessa took place of better potential lords, to which I fully agree. Consider now that one of the very few limited spots for Bretonnian LLs was taken by resurrected dead Repanse. How is it welcome and adequate?
    So instead of giving us generic Knight number 3; they gave us an actually interesting and unique LL?

    Alberic has the whole regular Brettonian Knightly lord thing down; he doesn't need competitors.
    She is a generic Knight though, I can't see what is so interesting about her.
    They didn't provide Crusade mechanics akin to Medieval 2, so she is just a bretonnian in a desert, nothing more.
    Either crusade mechanics with a LL appropriate for the timeline, or Bertrand/ Mallobaude for completely different experience would be much better.
  • DeadpoolSWDeadpoolSW Registered Users Posts: 2,215

    The fact that they gave up on giving us new races, making the likelihood of seeing Araby, Amazons, or Albion any time soon practically 0.

    I suspect that has more to do with GW than anything else
    I know, but it doesn't mean I can't mope :(
    Nagash will rule again!

    Justice for Chaos Dwarfs, Ogre Kingdoms, Araby, Albion, Amazons, Halflings, Nippon, Ind & the Hobgoblin Khanate!
  • veresh1989veresh1989 Russia, Saint-PetersburgRegistered Users Posts: 4,377
    1. Eldyra should get a start at the Arnheim colony
    2. Mundvard the Cruel should have been instead of Cylostra. Why does CA mock opera singers by giving them such a bad image?
    3. The Bretonnian colonies are very poorly implemented, there should have been Arabia.
  • Giveaway412Giveaway412 Registered Users Posts: 871


    3. The Bretonnian colonies are very poorly implemented, there should have been Arabia.

    But the Bretonnians are influenced by beautiful elves, while Araby is influenced by foul Chaos! Why do you hate elves, veresh?
  • TemudhunTemudhun Member Registered Users Posts: 529
    RikRiorik said:

    Serpentar said:

    Don't get me wrong, the addition of Repanse was very welcome and adequate.

    You mentioned that Cylostra and Aranessa took place of better potential lords, to which I fully agree. Consider now that one of the very few limited spots for Bretonnian LLs was taken by resurrected dead Repanse. How is it welcome and adequate?
    So instead of giving us generic Knight number 3; they gave us an actually interesting and unique LL?

    Alberic has the whole regular Brettonian Knightly lord thing down; he doesn't need competitors.
    Honestly, in my opinion, it was a mistake to add Alberic instead of Bohemond. Bohemond would take roughly the same amount of work to implement while starting in roughly the same place, but he'd be much more interesting and more important than Alberic.
    Alberic though is the Lord of the Seas and bountiful trading. In lieu of having a Marienburger LL he is the best thing since fat merchants were introduced as playable characters in pen and paper RPGs.
    It's kind of a missed opportunity without naval battles and improved trade mechanics, though.
  • veresh1989veresh1989 Russia, Saint-PetersburgRegistered Users Posts: 4,377


    3. The Bretonnian colonies are very poorly implemented, there should have been Arabia.

    But the Bretonnians are influenced by beautiful elves, while Araby is influenced by foul Chaos! Why do you hate elves, veresh?
    They just sit there for the whole game and do nothing.
  • SerpentarSerpentar Registered Users Posts: 24
    Temudhun said:


    I suspect they initially planned to use Baron Odo d'Outremer but changed their mind at some point so Odo turned into Repanse and Suliman the Saracen became Henri le Massif while his name was attributed to Repanse's horse.

    An unfortunate change.
    But Suliman's chances were slim anyway, along with the rest of Araby.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,073
    His Majesty the Crown Prince Imrik of the House Caledoran, the Lord of Dragons as FLC is the biggest missed opportunity since Vlad. He should have been DLC in Game3.
    animacja-sygn-3.gif


  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 494
    Serpentar said:

    You mentioned that Cylostra and Aranessa took place of better potential lords, to which I fully agree. Consider now that one of the very few limited spots for Bretonnian LLs was taken by resurrected dead Repanse. How is it welcome and adequate?

    She stands out as being the Joan of Arc of Bretonnia. She was also the Duchess of Lyonesse at one point. She comes with subordinate legendary characters and she is not an inherited noble, but a peasant girl turned warhero. In a faction that denies major magicians/females besides the Fay, Repanse stands out from the crowd.
    Jote191 said:

    There's a mod that makes Sartosa so much better. I literally cannot play without it installed. The name was Nanu's Pirates of Sartosa Overhaul. Good stuff👍

    Exact same for me, unplayable otherwise.
    Temudhun said:

    Regarding Sartosa, I'm wondering if the living pirates shouldn't have been part of the Dogs of War.

    They absolutely should have been yes.

    1. Eldyra should get a start at the Arnheim colony

    It would have been a good start for Eltharion otherwise to race back to Yvresse to stop Grom's invasion. Deal with Morathi, Tretch and then fight through Cylostra, Noctilus and Aranessa all the way to Ulthuan.

  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 9,860
    Temudhun said:

    RikRiorik said:

    Serpentar said:

    Don't get me wrong, the addition of Repanse was very welcome and adequate.

    You mentioned that Cylostra and Aranessa took place of better potential lords, to which I fully agree. Consider now that one of the very few limited spots for Bretonnian LLs was taken by resurrected dead Repanse. How is it welcome and adequate?
    So instead of giving us generic Knight number 3; they gave us an actually interesting and unique LL?

    Alberic has the whole regular Brettonian Knightly lord thing down; he doesn't need competitors.
    Honestly, in my opinion, it was a mistake to add Alberic instead of Bohemond. Bohemond would take roughly the same amount of work to implement while starting in roughly the same place, but he'd be much more interesting and more important than Alberic.
    Alberic though is the Lord of the Seas and bountiful trading. In lieu of having a Marienburger LL he is the best thing since fat merchants were introduced as playable characters in pen and paper RPGs.
    It's kind of a missed opportunity without naval battles and improved trade mechanics, though.
    Solution. Naval battles and improved trade. Certainly a better tradeoff than Lord Knightly Pants the III.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • ROMOBOYROMOBOY Registered Users Posts: 3,633
    More race packs.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

    Cathay > Chaos Dwarfs = Pain

    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • SerpentarSerpentar Registered Users Posts: 24


    She stands out as being the Joan of Arc of Bretonnia. She was also the Duchess of Lyonesse at one point. She comes with subordinate legendary characters and she is not an inherited noble, but a peasant girl turned warhero.

    Peasant to knight transition bio makes sense, true. But at the end of the day she became female Alberic, especially in terms of game mechanics.


    In a faction that denies major magicians/females besides the Fay, Repanse stands out from the crowd.

    Bretonnia a faction centered around female god, with female-only pope and female-only high priestesses (who are also generals in game), which scarifices male magic users to said female god.
    "Denial" is probably the wrong term here.
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 494
    Serpentar said:



    Peasant to knight transition bio makes sense, true. But at the end of the day she became female Alberic, especially in terms of game mechanics.

    Bretonnia a faction centered around female god, with female-only pope and female-only high priestesses (who are also generals in game), which scarifices male magic users to said female god.
    "Denial" is probably the wrong term here.

    Generic leaders and faith yes, major lore-recognized ones on par with the Fay, Bohemond or Louen that can lead factions and armies? None besides Repanse.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 11,043
    Serpentar said:


    She stands out as being the Joan of Arc of Bretonnia. She was also the Duchess of Lyonesse at one point. She comes with subordinate legendary characters and she is not an inherited noble, but a peasant girl turned warhero.

    Peasant to knight transition bio makes sense, true. But at the end of the day she became female Alberic, especially in terms of game mechanics.


    In a faction that denies major magicians/females besides the Fay, Repanse stands out from the crowd.

    Bretonnia a faction centered around female god, with female-only pope and female-only high priestesses (who are also generals in game), which scarifices male magic users to said female god.
    "Denial" is probably the wrong term here.
    They are not sacrificed they are additional military resources of ze Lady's secret realm and come out in dire situations to kick ass.

    But in the mean time they serve the Lady as all who live in Fair bretonnia.

    Infact in terms political power Fay Enchantress can override the king of bretonnia, and only thing that can even negotiate with Grail damsels when they set their foot down is the king alone.

    A Grail damsel out rank all bretonnian nobility except the king.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
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