WH3 Rivalries to form DLCs down the road

TheWattman#7460

We've all seen the trailer by now and know atleast on the surface which the playable races will be, excluding future race packs like Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, DoW and possibly Hobgoblins. Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, Slaanesh, Kislev and Cathay. Now, depending on how complete the Monogod rosters (and Kislev) are on arrival, they will probably form the main component of future DLCs, as Kislev looked relatively complete in the trailer and only so much can be pushed/invented out of Cathay. Obviously this conversation assumes that WH3 DLCs will follow the same form as WH2 and Game 1/2 vs Game 1/2 are not an option. So I'd like to discuss the lore-rivalries of the confirmed races and see what basis they have for potential LP rivalries later down the line. Due not here that Im talking about rivalries that these races have with either each other or game 1/2 races, not those that game 1/2 races have with the game 3 races.

Now a big question to consider is whether or not Monogod vs Monogod DLCs would be possible. If the answer is yes, then the rivalries will follow the structure which will be discussed below. If no, then most of the Chaos DLCs will likely be focused against Old World or Vortex races.

Lets start with Kislev and Tzeentch:

Kislev:

Obviously because of geography, Kislev's main enemy is Chaos. Specifically Chaos Undivided, as it is through Kislev that the Everchosen typically invades the Old World. The Monogods on their own don't really have seperate grudges against Kislev, nor do Kislev have seperate rivalries, beyond general hostility of course, against the specific gods. Perhaps the DLCs of Kislev will focus on updating the existing Chaos Undivided race, with additions like Be'lakor to Archaon's faction, assuming he isn't the ancient figure mentioned in the trailer letter. Beyond this, the rivalries of Kislev are minor. There is conflict between generic greenskins in the unchecked Kislev countryside, specifically centered around the unfortunately maybe dead Boris Ursus. Perhaps more prominently would be the enemies of Ulrika Magdova's story, specifically Grey Seer Thanquol of the Skaven and the Undead Vampire Counts that turned her into one of their own. Could it be against Ulrika that we will see Thanquol emerge? Or will we perhaps see Ulrika face off against Neferata?

Tzeentch:

The Changer of Ways is the second most powerful Chaos God after Khorne and was once the ruler of the Chaos Realm. Right now, atleast for the moment, that title belongs to Khorne, which would cause you to consider that Khorne might be Tzeentch's biggest enemy. This however is not true as that honour belongs to Nurgle, who represents stagnation and decay where Tzeentch represents progress and change. There is no shortage of conflicts between them in the Chaos Realm. Slaanesh is no favourite of Tzeentch by any means, but its perhaps the least directly confrontational relationship Tzeentch has with his sibling gods. Perhaps a DLC pitting the Blue Scribes vs Epidemius is in order? On the mortal plane, Tzeentch, or rather his minions, have the greatest rivalries with the main order factions like the Empire, Bretonnia and the High Elves. Most noteable in my mind is the betrayal of Egrimm van Horstmann on the Imperial Colleges of Magic or the The Year of Woe conflict between Kairos Fateweaver and Bretonnia. Kairos was also slain once by Aenarion the Defender, so that's another grudge there. Could it be Egrimm van Horstmann that is destined to face off against Boris Todbringer, the Ar-Ulric, Marius Leitdorf or Elspeth von Draken?

Moving on to Khorne and Nurgle:

Khorne:

As mentioned above, Khorne is the ruler of and most powerful entity in the Chaos Realm, having unseated Tzeentch. And even further, Khorne is waiting for Tzeentch to weaken further to crush the magical coward. I'd say Tzeentch is Khorne's most dangerous enemy, even though the final confrontation is yet to come. As for Nurgle, Khorne views him as dishonourable and perhaps lazy, lacking the conviction or courage to face his enemies head on while he waits to corrupt them slowly. Slaanesh is a difficult one as he would ultimately want to keep civilization intact in order to fully live out his perverted desires. Only because Slaanesh has not yet reached full power the threat to Khorne is not yet immediate, but major conflict between them is on the horizon. Could we perhaps see Valkia or Scyla Anfingrimm take on Vilitch the Cursling or Dechala the Denied One? Besides his siblings, Khorne's main conflict lies with the frontraces of the Old World, mainly the Empire, Bretonnia and the Dwarfs. Skarbrand was summoned by Thanquol and fought and was killed by the Dwarfs and Valkia fought in Imperial Nordland (with a minor battle in Naggaroth as well. Perhaps its Thorek Ironbrow's destiny to face a Herald of Khorne?

Nurgle:

The Lord of Decay is the most disruptive in the conflicts of the Chaos Realm, as his corruption always spreads into his neighbors's domains. Khorne and Slaanesh may irritate or disgust Nurgle on occation, but it is Tzeentch that angers him the most, being a flimsy trickster that would accelerate the natural course of evolution and eliminate decay and corruption. Behind Tzeentch's desire to unseat Khorne, this is currently the most prevalent rivalry between Dark Powers. In the mortal world, Nurgle has perhaps the most clear rivalries with the races of WH3 through Tamurkhan's rampage through the Mountains of Mourn and Dark Lands, thus bringing conflict between Nurgle and the Chaos Dwarfs, Ogres and to a lesser extent the Greenskins. Ku'gath Plaugefather has a long record of (losing) conflicts against Dwarfs and Bretonnians. Gutrot Spume fought against Emperor Karl Franz and was defeated by an intervention of Tzarina Katarin. Will we see the Glottkin fight a general of the Empire or Tamurkhan face off against one of his many enemies?

And now lets finish with Slaanesh and Cathay:

Slaanesh:

The Dark Prince has perhaps the weakest direct rivalries with fellow dark gods, beyond ordinary hostilities and a coming reckoning with Khorne. The majority of Slaanesh's conflicts take place on the mortal plane through his minions and here there is no greater rivalry than that between N'kari and the descendants of Aenarion the Defender. Meaning that the High Elves and to a lesser extent the Dark Elves are Slaanesh's biggest enemies. Dechala the Denied One was an Asur princess and Sigvald launched a famed invasion of Ulthuan. Perhaps then its only fitting if Finubar or Sea Lord Aislinn would face one of Slaanesh's minions later down the line. Then of course there is Azazel's conflict with Sigmar himself, spurring a rivalry with the Empire.

Cathay:

The most surprising and obscure of the WH3 base races, Cathay will be interesting to see how it will be tackeled. Like Kislev, Cathay's main enemies are the minions of Chaos, specifically the nomadic tribes beyond the Great Bastion. However, that conflict still lies far from the attention of any Chaos god or Everchosen, except perhaps for Tzeentch, who has found his way into the hearts of the ruler of Beichai. Is this enough to pit a Cathayan versus an agent of the Raven God? Beyond this, there are Dark Elf raids on the Cathayan coast and conflicts with Hobgoblins and other Greenskins on the plains and Ivory Road. But perhaps most prominently are the voyages of Yin-Tuan and his conflicts with the Lizardmen near Pahuax and in the Southlands. Perhaps he would be a fitting adversary to Tetto'eko or Oxyotl?

What do you think guys? What rivalries do you expect to see down the road of WH3?

Captain_Rex#1635

Elspeth von Draken vs Tamurkkhan is basically guaranteed. We all know it’s coming.

Fossoway#5540

Tzeentch vs Cathay makes more sense. We know that the Deceiver has many cults and footholds there, and from what I remember in some places his cult is practiced openly.

Captain_Rex#1635

Fossoway said:

Tzeentch vs Cathay makes more sense. We know that the Deceiver has many cults and footholds there, and from what I remember in some places his cult is practiced openly.

Tzeentch vs Cathay as a Classic LP and Norsca vs Cathay as a Crossover LP.

Sayl attacked the Great Bastion so he would fit perfectly.

TheWattman#7460

ArneSo said:

Elspeth von Draken vs Tamurkkhan is basically guaranteed. We all know it’s coming.

I personally have my doubts if Elspeth can make it in next to Boris, Leitdorf and Ar-Ulric, but if she does then yes, this would be highly appropriate.

Fossoway said:

Tzeentch vs Cathay makes more sense. We know that the Deceiver has many cults and footholds there, and from what I remember in some places his cult is practiced openly.

ArneSo said:

Tzeentch vs Cathay as a Classic LP and Norsca vs Cathay as a Crossover LP.

Sayl attacked the Great Bastion so he would fit perfectly.

Now its just a matter of finding a suitable Cathayan to fight one of the Tzeentchians. And Sayl would be a good candidate unless Egil Styrbjorn takes up the Norscan update DLC.

Wyvax#7456

I'll be looking at this from the opposite end, WH1 and 2 races and who makes the most sense to pair up against in WH3. Also assuming that they'll do away with the stupid "a core must feature in a LP rule".

Lizardmen:
Oxyotl vs the Changling, the daemons are the adversary of the LM and the Changling has a history of messing with the Lizardmen, Oxyotl is self explanatory. Tetto'ekko as FLC.

High Elves:
Sea Lord Aislinn vs Dechala the Denied One? Mortals of Slaanesh focused.
Alternatively:
Sea Lord Aislinn vs Tordrek Hackheart, sometime after CD have released.

Dark Elves:
They're likely done assuming they're paired with the upcoming BM LP.

Skaven:
Thanquol vs Dawi, why this match up hasn't been done yet is a mystery.
or
vs Cathay???

Empire:
Elspeth vs Tamurkhan, the Magesterix and the Maggotlord. Focusing on the mortal units of Nurgle of course.
Ar-Ulric vs Valkia. Focusing on the mortal units of Khorne.
Kurt Helborg vs Moonclaw? Finishing of the Empire and the BM's second LP by then.

Dwarfs:
Dawi vs CD, pretty obvious matchup.

Vampire Counts:
Neferata vs Apophas, the first vampire against the eternally restless.
Zacharias vs Snagla Grobspit? Battle in the Drakwald? IDK.

Greenskins:
Morglum Necksnapper vs Ghark Ironskin, rumble in the MoM.

Wood Elves:
Araloth vs the Masque of Slaanesh, daemons of Slaanesh focus.

Norsca:
Sayl the Faithless vs Vilith the Curseling, Tzeentch sends Vilitch out for revenge on Sayl.
Or.
Sayl vs Cathay.

To many ideas to list...

Captain_Rex#1635

TheWattman said:

ArneSo said:

Elspeth von Draken vs Tamurkkhan is basically guaranteed. We all know it’s coming.

I personally have my doubts if Elspeth can make it in next to Boris, Leitdorf and Ar-Ulric, but if she does then yes, this would be highly appropriate.

Fossoway said:

Tzeentch vs Cathay makes more sense. We know that the Deceiver has many cults and footholds there, and from what I remember in some places his cult is practiced openly.

ArneSo said:

Tzeentch vs Cathay as a Classic LP and Norsca vs Cathay as a Crossover LP.

Sayl attacked the Great Bastion so he would fit perfectly.

Now its just a matter of finding a suitable Cathayan to fight one of the Tzeentchians. And Sayl would be a good candidate unless Egil Styrbjorn takes up the Norscan update DLC.

Boris is FLC Material.

The Empire should get 2 LPs. 1 for Emil Valgeir and 1 for Elspeth.

Egil should be Khorne though. The good thing about Sayl is that he is undivided.

Fossoway#5540

If we ever get another Vampire Coast DLC, I could see Skretch Half-Dead vs Gutrot Spume. It would certainly be an interesting Lord Pack.

TheWattman#7460

Wyvax said:

I'll be looking at this from the opposite end, WH1 and 2 races and who makes the most sense to pair up against in WH3. Also assuming that they'll do away with the stupid "a core must feature in a LP rule".

Lizardmen:
Oxyotl vs the Changling, the daemons are the adversary of the LM and the Changling has a history of messing with the Lizardmen, Oxyotl is self explanatory. Tetto'ekko as FLC.

High Elves:
Sea Lord Aislinn vs Dechala the Denied One? Mortals of Slaanesh focused.
Alternatively:
Sea Lord Aislinn vs Tordrek Hackheart, sometime after CD have released.

Dark Elves:
They're likely done assuming they're paired with the upcoming BM LP.

Skaven:
Thanquol vs Dawi, why this match up hasn't been done yet is a mystery.
or
vs Cathay???

Empire:
Elspeth vs Tamurkhan, the Magesterix and the Maggotlord. Focusing on the mortal units of Nurgle of course.
Ar-Ulric vs Valkia. Focusing on the mortal units of Khorne.
Kurt Helborg vs Moonclaw? Finishing of the Empire and the BM's second LP by then.

Dwarfs:
Dawi vs CD, pretty obvious matchup.

Vampire Counts:
Neferata vs Apophas, the first vampire against the eternally restless.
Zacharias vs Snagla Grobspit? Battle in the Drakwald? IDK.

Greenskins:
Morglum Necksnapper vs Ghark Ironskin, rumble in the MoM.

Wood Elves:
Araloth vs the Masque of Slaanesh, daemons of Slaanesh focus.

Norsca:
Sayl the Faithless vs Vilith the Curseling, Tzeentch sends Vilitch out for revenge on Sayl.
Or.
Sayl vs Cathay.

To many ideas to list...

I like your Lizardmen, Greenskin and HE pairings there. Thanquol I think depends on if CA thinks Skaven vs Dwarfs were done by the King & the Warlord and that such a pairing can only be done once.

Wyvax#7456

TheWattman said:

Wyvax said:

I'll be looking at this from the opposite end, WH1 and 2 races and who makes the most sense to pair up against in WH3. Also assuming that they'll do away with the stupid "a core must feature in a LP rule".

Lizardmen:
Oxyotl vs the Changling, the daemons are the adversary of the LM and the Changling has a history of messing with the Lizardmen, Oxyotl is self explanatory. Tetto'ekko as FLC.

High Elves:
Sea Lord Aislinn vs Dechala the Denied One? Mortals of Slaanesh focused.
Alternatively:
Sea Lord Aislinn vs Tordrek Hackheart, sometime after CD have released.

Dark Elves:
They're likely done assuming they're paired with the upcoming BM LP.

Skaven:
Thanquol vs Dawi, why this match up hasn't been done yet is a mystery.
or
vs Cathay???

Empire:
Elspeth vs Tamurkhan, the Magesterix and the Maggotlord. Focusing on the mortal units of Nurgle of course.
Ar-Ulric vs Valkia. Focusing on the mortal units of Khorne.
Kurt Helborg vs Moonclaw? Finishing of the Empire and the BM's second LP by then.

Dwarfs:
Dawi vs CD, pretty obvious matchup.

Vampire Counts:
Neferata vs Apophas, the first vampire against the eternally restless.
Zacharias vs Snagla Grobspit? Battle in the Drakwald? IDK.

Greenskins:
Morglum Necksnapper vs Ghark Ironskin, rumble in the MoM.

Wood Elves:
Araloth vs the Masque of Slaanesh, daemons of Slaanesh focus.

Norsca:
Sayl the Faithless vs Vilith the Curseling, Tzeentch sends Vilitch out for revenge on Sayl.
Or.
Sayl vs Cathay.

To many ideas to list...

I like your Lizardmen, Greenskin and HE pairings there. Thanquol I think depends on if CA thinks Skaven vs Dwarfs were done by the King & the Warlord and that such a pairing can only be done once.

Skaven and Dwarfs haven't been done though, King and the Warlord was Belegar vs Skarsnik. Still it depends on whether CA get rid of their arbitrary core race rule or not.

TheWattman#7460

Wyvax said:

Skaven and Dwarfs haven't been done though, King and the Warlord was Belegar vs Skarsnik. Still it depends on whether CA get rid of their arbitrary core race rule or not.

You're right, Im dumb lol. Keep thinking K&W is Belegar vs Queek.

Think the core rule is mostly game logic, so that people who buy only one game get atleast something from the cores.

Maedrethnir#1968

Finubar vs. Slaaneshi spawn would be the best outcome, yes. It makes the most sense.

Captain_Rex#1635

Maedrethnir said:

Finubar vs. Slaaneshi spawn would be the best outcome, yes. It makes the most sense.

Urgh that would be terrible.

Pr4vda#6038

I don't see dwarfs vs any chaos gods. A very long time ago, dwarfs and elfs together pushed back the chaos in the Old World.

But at the days of the game, the dwarfs barely fight against chaos because they are for the most part in their Karak. They fight chaos mainly when there is a huge invasion and are called to help by Kislev and the Empire.

Even dwarfs vs chaos dwarfs seem strange. Yes, dawi are well aware of the existence of chaos dwarfs. But i've never read a single fight between them. I mean, not a huge scale war or invasions of one or the other. But I understand the opposition "good dawi" vs "chaos dawi".

The most sense to me would be versus OK. The ogres often use dawi passes and roads to rampage on the west. And dawi often push them back when it is possible (Ungrim destroyed Golfag's army in the battle of broken leg gully).

Captain_Rex#1635

Pr4vda said:

I don't see dwarfs vs any chaos gods. A very long time ago, dwarfs and elfs together pushed back the chaos in the Old World.

But at the days of the game, the dwarfs barely fight against chaos because they are for the most part in their Karak. They fight chaos mainly when there is a huge invasion and are called to help by Kislev and the Empire.

Even dwarfs vs chaos dwarfs seem strange. Yes, dawi are well aware of the existence of chaos dwarfs. But i've never read a single fight between them. I mean, not a huge scale war or invasions of one or the other. But I understand the opposition "good dawi" vs "chaos dawi".

The most sense to me would be versus OK. The ogres often use dawi passes and roads to rampage on the west. And dawi often push them back when it is possible (Ungrim destroyed Golfag's army in the battle of broken leg gully).

Dwarfs should get 3 LPs so you can just send them against whoever to be honest.

Maedrethnir#1968

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

Finubar vs. Slaaneshi spawn would be the best outcome, yes. It makes the most sense.

Urgh that would be terrible.

No, it would be excellent. And people would love it.

Captain_Rex#1635

Maedrethnir said:

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

Finubar vs. Slaaneshi spawn would be the best outcome, yes. It makes the most sense.

Urgh that would be terrible.

No, it would be excellent. And people would love it.

Nah dude and it was already discussed to death. Aislinn is what the People want. He will be the excellent choice against Gutrot Spume.

Finubar might has a slim chance to be a LH... but a LL and faction leader? Literally zero chance. That simply will never happen and deep inside you know that pretty well.

But let’s not start this debate again.

Maedrethnir#1968

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

Finubar vs. Slaaneshi spawn would be the best outcome, yes. It makes the most sense.

Urgh that would be terrible.

No, it would be excellent. And people would love it.

Nah dude and it was already discussed to death. Aislinn is what the People want. He will be the excellent choice against Gutrot Spume.

Finubar might has a slim chance to be a LH... but a LL and faction leader? Literally zero chance. That simply will never happen and deep inside you know that pretty well.

But let’s not start this debate again.

It was, and all the good boys want Finubar. It makes little sense for High Elves to fight against Nurgle, for they have a deep rivalry with Slaanesh. It should be explored.

I do know that it will happen. I expect a cross promotion with the Old World.

Captain_Rex#1635

Maedrethnir said:

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

Finubar vs. Slaaneshi spawn would be the best outcome, yes. It makes the most sense.

Urgh that would be terrible.

No, it would be excellent. And people would love it.

Nah dude and it was already discussed to death. Aislinn is what the People want. He will be the excellent choice against Gutrot Spume.

Finubar might has a slim chance to be a LH... but a LL and faction leader? Literally zero chance. That simply will never happen and deep inside you know that pretty well.

But let’s not start this debate again.

It was, and all the good boys want Finubar. It makes little sense for High Elves to fight against Nurgle, for they have a deep rivalry with Slaanesh. It should be explored.

I do know that it will happen. I expect a cross promotion with the Old World.

Only a small and very vocal minority of hardcore HE fans. Fans which are to biased to think about it objectively.

Personal bias aside mate, it will 100% be Ailsinn and the Sea Patrol. You can bet on that.

Maybe you’ll get Finubar as a FLC for the combined map but Ca will never pick him for a LP. That simply won’t happen and we all know it. Time to accept it.

TheWattman#7460

ArneSo said:

Dwarfs should get 3 LPs so you can just send them against whoever to be honest.

I agree. Thorek Ironbrow in Karak Azul, either Thorgard Cromson or Malakai in Kraka Drak and Josef Bugman in the Mountains of Mourn. Grimm Burlokson can be LH.

Maedrethnir said:

It was, and all the good boys want Finubar. It makes little sense for High Elves to fight against Nurgle, for they have a deep rivalry with Slaanesh. It should be explored.

I do know that it will happen. I expect a cross promotion with the Old World.

ArneSo said:

Only a small and very vocal minority of hardcore HE fans. Fans which are to biased to think about it objectively.

Personal bias aside mate, it will 100% be Ailsinn and the Sea Patrol. You can bet on that.

Maybe you’ll get Finubar as a FLC for the combined map but Ca will never pick him for a LP. That simply won’t happen and we all know it. Time to accept it.

I agree that Aislinn takes priority over Finubar any day of the week and the DLC spot belongs to Aislinn. But Finubar could be a nice FLC character if, for example, CA wants a playable prescence in the Gates or Lost Isles of Elithis. But the main focus will be on Aislinn and the navy, stationed in the City of Spires.

Maedrethnir#1968

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

Finubar vs. Slaaneshi spawn would be the best outcome, yes. It makes the most sense.

Urgh that would be terrible.

No, it would be excellent. And people would love it.

Nah dude and it was already discussed to death. Aislinn is what the People want. He will be the excellent choice against Gutrot Spume.

Finubar might has a slim chance to be a LH... but a LL and faction leader? Literally zero chance. That simply will never happen and deep inside you know that pretty well.

But let’s not start this debate again.

It was, and all the good boys want Finubar. It makes little sense for High Elves to fight against Nurgle, for they have a deep rivalry with Slaanesh. It should be explored.

I do know that it will happen. I expect a cross promotion with the Old World.

Only a small and very vocal minority of hardcore HE fans. Fans which are to biased to think about it objectively.

Personal bias aside mate, it will 100% be Ailsinn and the Sea Patrol. You can bet on that.

Maybe you’ll get Finubar as a FLC for the combined map but Ca will never pick him for a LP. That simply won’t happen and we all know it. Time to accept it.

No, not only. Many men of fine tastes want to have the Avatar of Asuryan represented in the game. And many more will want him considering that we are going straight into the Realm of Chaos. By the time Game3 comes, he will be in everybody's minds, for better or worse. I'll make sure of it.

Yes, we most definitely should take personal bias aside, it clouds judgement and it is not not a good look in general, It will be 100% Finubar and the High Elf Sea Patrol sprinkled with the Phoenix King theme.

It is time to accept it. I was right when I said that Imrik will be one of, if not the most popular character in the game, and he indeed is the most popular character in the game. I believe CA have learned from their mistake.

TheWattman said:

ArneSo said:

Dwarfs should get 3 LPs so you can just send them against whoever to be honest.

I agree. Thorek Ironbrow in Karak Azul, either Thorgard Cromson or Malakai in Kraka Drak and Josef Bugman in the Mountains of Mourn. Grimm Burlokson can be LH.

Maedrethnir said:

It was, and all the good boys want Finubar. It makes little sense for High Elves to fight against Nurgle, for they have a deep rivalry with Slaanesh. It should be explored.

I do know that it will happen. I expect a cross promotion with the Old World.

ArneSo said:

Only a small and very vocal minority of hardcore HE fans. Fans which are to biased to think about it objectively.

Personal bias aside mate, it will 100% be Ailsinn and the Sea Patrol. You can bet on that.

Maybe you’ll get Finubar as a FLC for the combined map but Ca will never pick him for a LP. That simply won’t happen and we all know it. Time to accept it.

I agree that Aislinn takes priority over Finubar any day of the week and the DLC spot belongs to Aislinn. But Finubar could be a nice FLC character if, for example, CA wants a playable prescence in the Gates or Lost Isles of Elithis. But the main focus will be on Aislinn and the navy, stationed in the City of Spires.

Aislinn should be a Wulfhart-like character for Finubar, alongside Caradryan and Korhil. He is an obscure character of little value.

DeadpoolSW#7283

Pr4vda said:

I don't see dwarfs vs any chaos gods. A very long time ago, dwarfs and elfs together pushed back the chaos in the Old World.

But at the days of the game, the dwarfs barely fight against chaos because they are for the most part in their Karak. They fight chaos mainly when there is a huge invasion and are called to help by Kislev and the Empire.

Even dwarfs vs chaos dwarfs seem strange. Yes, dawi are well aware of the existence of chaos dwarfs. But i've never read a single fight between them. I mean, not a huge scale war or invasions of one or the other. But I understand the opposition "good dawi" vs "chaos dawi".

The most sense to me would be versus OK. The ogres often use dawi passes and roads to rampage on the west. And dawi often push them back when it is possible (Ungrim destroyed Golfag's army in the battle of broken leg gully).

It was always my understanding that the Dwarfs don't know about the Chaos Dwarfs, which is why they haven't attempted contact and the CD felt abandoned.

TheGuardianOfMetal#3661

DeadpoolSW said:

Pr4vda said:

I don't see dwarfs vs any chaos gods. A very long time ago, dwarfs and elfs together pushed back the chaos in the Old World.

But at the days of the game, the dwarfs barely fight against chaos because they are for the most part in their Karak. They fight chaos mainly when there is a huge invasion and are called to help by Kislev and the Empire.

Even dwarfs vs chaos dwarfs seem strange. Yes, dawi are well aware of the existence of chaos dwarfs. But i've never read a single fight between them. I mean, not a huge scale war or invasions of one or the other. But I understand the opposition "good dawi" vs "chaos dawi".

The most sense to me would be versus OK. The ogres often use dawi passes and roads to rampage on the west. And dawi often push them back when it is possible (Ungrim destroyed Golfag's army in the battle of broken leg gully).

It was always my understanding that the Dwarfs don't know about the Chaos Dwarfs, which is why they haven't attempted contact and the CD felt abandoned.

They DO know about the Dawi Zharr, they consider them their biggest shame.

They hadn't made contact back then because the Times of Woe were upon them. The Underway unusable, cut off from each other and under attack by Greenskins... And the Darklands are far away... they assumed the Dwarfs in the Darklands dead. And even if not, they would've been unable to contact them.

DeadpoolSW#7283

TheGuardianOfMetal said:

DeadpoolSW said:

Pr4vda said:

I don't see dwarfs vs any chaos gods. A very long time ago, dwarfs and elfs together pushed back the chaos in the Old World.

But at the days of the game, the dwarfs barely fight against chaos because they are for the most part in their Karak. They fight chaos mainly when there is a huge invasion and are called to help by Kislev and the Empire.

Even dwarfs vs chaos dwarfs seem strange. Yes, dawi are well aware of the existence of chaos dwarfs. But i've never read a single fight between them. I mean, not a huge scale war or invasions of one or the other. But I understand the opposition "good dawi" vs "chaos dawi".

The most sense to me would be versus OK. The ogres often use dawi passes and roads to rampage on the west. And dawi often push them back when it is possible (Ungrim destroyed Golfag's army in the battle of broken leg gully).

It was always my understanding that the Dwarfs don't know about the Chaos Dwarfs, which is why they haven't attempted contact and the CD felt abandoned.

They DO know about the Dawi Zharr, they consider them their biggest shame.

They hadn't made contact back then because the Times of Woe were upon them. The Underway unusable, cut off from each other and under attack by Greenskins... And the Darklands are far away... they assumed the Dwarfs in the Darklands dead. And even if not, they would've been unable to contact them.

Ok, thanks.

Captain_Rex#1635

Maedrethnir said:

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

Finubar vs. Slaaneshi spawn would be the best outcome, yes. It makes the most sense.

Urgh that would be terrible.

No, it would be excellent. And people would love it.

Nah dude and it was already discussed to death. Aislinn is what the People want. He will be the excellent choice against Gutrot Spume.

Finubar might has a slim chance to be a LH... but a LL and faction leader? Literally zero chance. That simply will never happen and deep inside you know that pretty well.

But let’s not start this debate again.

It was, and all the good boys want Finubar. It makes little sense for High Elves to fight against Nurgle, for they have a deep rivalry with Slaanesh. It should be explored.

I do know that it will happen. I expect a cross promotion with the Old World.

Only a small and very vocal minority of hardcore HE fans. Fans which are to biased to think about it objectively.

Personal bias aside mate, it will 100% be Ailsinn and the Sea Patrol. You can bet on that.

Maybe you’ll get Finubar as a FLC for the combined map but Ca will never pick him for a LP. That simply won’t happen and we all know it. Time to accept it.

No, not only. Many men of fine tastes want to have the Avatar of Asuryan represented in the game. And many more will want him considering that we are going straight into the Realm of Chaos. By the time Game3 comes, he will be in everybody's minds, for better or worse. I'll make sure of it.

Yes, we most definitely should take personal bias aside, it clouds judgement and it is not not a good look in general, It will be 100% Finubar and the High Elf Sea Patrol sprinkled with the Phoenix King theme.

It is time to accept it. I was right when I said that Imrik will be one of, if not the most popular character in the game, and he indeed is the most popular character in the game. I believe CA have learned from their mistake.

TheWattman said:

ArneSo said:

Dwarfs should get 3 LPs so you can just send them against whoever to be honest.

I agree. Thorek Ironbrow in Karak Azul, either Thorgard Cromson or Malakai in Kraka Drak and Josef Bugman in the Mountains of Mourn. Grimm Burlokson can be LH.

Maedrethnir said:

It was, and all the good boys want Finubar. It makes little sense for High Elves to fight against Nurgle, for they have a deep rivalry with Slaanesh. It should be explored.

I do know that it will happen. I expect a cross promotion with the Old World.

ArneSo said:

Only a small and very vocal minority of hardcore HE fans. Fans which are to biased to think about it objectively.

Personal bias aside mate, it will 100% be Ailsinn and the Sea Patrol. You can bet on that.

Maybe you’ll get Finubar as a FLC for the combined map but Ca will never pick him for a LP. That simply won’t happen and we all know it. Time to accept it.

I agree that Aislinn takes priority over Finubar any day of the week and the DLC spot belongs to Aislinn. But Finubar could be a nice FLC character if, for example, CA wants a playable prescence in the Gates or Lost Isles of Elithis. But the main focus will be on Aislinn and the navy, stationed in the City of Spires.

Aislinn should be a Wulfhart-like character for Finubar, alongside Caradryan and Korhil. He is an obscure character of little value.

Makes no sense.

Aislinn is the Main Admiral of the HE navy. He’s the Chosen of Mathlann. He is the guy who commands the fleet. Not Finubar.

Making Aislinn a LH would be like making Tyrion a LH.

The next HE LP will be Naval themed and it will be Aislinn. Finubar is no Admiral or general, hes not even a fighter. He has no reason to ever leave his Palace in Lothern since his sole job is to be a politician.

Aislinn is the only realistic candidate for another HE LP and we all know it. It will be him.

Let’s make a deal, if it’s indeed Finubar and not Aislinn, I’ll buy you the DLC. If it’s Aislinn you’ll buy it for me. Deal?

saweendra#3399

I think it will be Finubar over Aisilin not just because of 1000 in lore reasons , Finubar was much more active during the time of old world , and he seem to pretty good contender to flesh out as a full blown HE lord
In wh old world. He seem to be pretty request by the TT community from what i have heard.
Not to mention he is the only HE lord apart from Arareil that has gone to east

Maedrethnir#1968

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

Finubar vs. Slaaneshi spawn would be the best outcome, yes. It makes the most sense.

Urgh that would be terrible.

No, it would be excellent. And people would love it.

Nah dude and it was already discussed to death. Aislinn is what the People want. He will be the excellent choice against Gutrot Spume.

Finubar might has a slim chance to be a LH... but a LL and faction leader? Literally zero chance. That simply will never happen and deep inside you know that pretty well.

But let’s not start this debate again.

It was, and all the good boys want Finubar. It makes little sense for High Elves to fight against Nurgle, for they have a deep rivalry with Slaanesh. It should be explored.

I do know that it will happen. I expect a cross promotion with the Old World.

Only a small and very vocal minority of hardcore HE fans. Fans which are to biased to think about it objectively.

Personal bias aside mate, it will 100% be Ailsinn and the Sea Patrol. You can bet on that.

Maybe you’ll get Finubar as a FLC for the combined map but Ca will never pick him for a LP. That simply won’t happen and we all know it. Time to accept it.

No, not only. Many men of fine tastes want to have the Avatar of Asuryan represented in the game. And many more will want him considering that we are going straight into the Realm of Chaos. By the time Game3 comes, he will be in everybody's minds, for better or worse. I'll make sure of it.

Yes, we most definitely should take personal bias aside, it clouds judgement and it is not not a good look in general, It will be 100% Finubar and the High Elf Sea Patrol sprinkled with the Phoenix King theme.

It is time to accept it. I was right when I said that Imrik will be one of, if not the most popular character in the game, and he indeed is the most popular character in the game. I believe CA have learned from their mistake.

TheWattman said:

ArneSo said:

Dwarfs should get 3 LPs so you can just send them against whoever to be honest.

I agree. Thorek Ironbrow in Karak Azul, either Thorgard Cromson or Malakai in Kraka Drak and Josef Bugman in the Mountains of Mourn. Grimm Burlokson can be LH.

Maedrethnir said:

It was, and all the good boys want Finubar. It makes little sense for High Elves to fight against Nurgle, for they have a deep rivalry with Slaanesh. It should be explored.

I do know that it will happen. I expect a cross promotion with the Old World.

ArneSo said:

Only a small and very vocal minority of hardcore HE fans. Fans which are to biased to think about it objectively.

Personal bias aside mate, it will 100% be Ailsinn and the Sea Patrol. You can bet on that.

Maybe you’ll get Finubar as a FLC for the combined map but Ca will never pick him for a LP. That simply won’t happen and we all know it. Time to accept it.

I agree that Aislinn takes priority over Finubar any day of the week and the DLC spot belongs to Aislinn. But Finubar could be a nice FLC character if, for example, CA wants a playable prescence in the Gates or Lost Isles of Elithis. But the main focus will be on Aislinn and the navy, stationed in the City of Spires.

Aislinn should be a Wulfhart-like character for Finubar, alongside Caradryan and Korhil. He is an obscure character of little value.

Makes no sense.

Aislinn is the Main Admiral of the HE navy. He’s the Chosen of Mathlann. He is the guy who commands the fleet. Not Finubar.

Making Aislinn a LH would be like making Tyrion a LH.

The next HE LP will be Naval themed and it will be Aislinn. Finubar is no Admiral or general, hes not even a fighter. He has no reason to ever leave his Palace in Lothern since his sole job is to be a politician.

Aislinn is the only realistic candidate for another HE LP and we all know it. It will be him.

Let’s make a deal, if it’s indeed Finubar and not Aislinn, I’ll buy you the DLC. If it’s Aislinn you’ll buy it for me. Deal?

It makes perfect sense.

Yes, he is the Sealord and he is the Herald of Mathlann, but he also is an obscure nobody with a poor track record of personal combat:

1. Army Book - he gets gutted by Lokhir
2. Sons of Ellyrion - he gets smashed by a sea beast
3. The End Times - he commits a suicide

Let's not compare Aislinn to Tyrion. The latter is a star player of High Elves, while the former barely got any spotlight. I don't want Aislinn to be LH, but Wulfhart-like lord. He doesn't deserve to be LH.


Factually incorrect. Finubar is all those three things. He is the Avatar of Asuryan and fits Game3 narrative like a glove. He combines both naval and the Phoenix King themes.

No, I disagree, Finubar is the most realistic candidate for another HE LP. His very presence would sell the DLC.

A few quotes about him:

Finubar fought with his golden sword, slaying the druchii as quickly as they climbed the walls.The Phoenix King was a fine swordsman, but his talents were those of peace, not war, and the White Lions were called upon to protect their liege lord on more than one occasion.

“Lead the mages of fire and water to Lothern,” said Teclis. “Counsel Tyrion and Finubar, for they are warriors and are ruled by the heart. They will have need of your wisdom in the dark days to come, Tyrion especially...”

The Phoenix King was still weak from the druchii sorcery that had slain his White Lions, but Tyrion knew it was more than luck that kept him alive. Finubar was the mortal vessel of Asuryan’s fire, and the Creator God did not suffer weaklings to guide his chosen people.

Korhil swept his mighty axe left and right, while Finubar fought like a berserker, all thoughts of restraint lost in the fury of battle.

No, thank you, but I'm not a fan of gambling.

Captain_Rex#1635

Maedrethnir said:

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

Finubar vs. Slaaneshi spawn would be the best outcome, yes. It makes the most sense.

Urgh that would be terrible.

No, it would be excellent. And people would love it.

Nah dude and it was already discussed to death. Aislinn is what the People want. He will be the excellent choice against Gutrot Spume.

Finubar might has a slim chance to be a LH... but a LL and faction leader? Literally zero chance. That simply will never happen and deep inside you know that pretty well.

But let’s not start this debate again.

It was, and all the good boys want Finubar. It makes little sense for High Elves to fight against Nurgle, for they have a deep rivalry with Slaanesh. It should be explored.

I do know that it will happen. I expect a cross promotion with the Old World.

Only a small and very vocal minority of hardcore HE fans. Fans which are to biased to think about it objectively.

Personal bias aside mate, it will 100% be Ailsinn and the Sea Patrol. You can bet on that.

Maybe you’ll get Finubar as a FLC for the combined map but Ca will never pick him for a LP. That simply won’t happen and we all know it. Time to accept it.

No, not only. Many men of fine tastes want to have the Avatar of Asuryan represented in the game. And many more will want him considering that we are going straight into the Realm of Chaos. By the time Game3 comes, he will be in everybody's minds, for better or worse. I'll make sure of it.

Yes, we most definitely should take personal bias aside, it clouds judgement and it is not not a good look in general, It will be 100% Finubar and the High Elf Sea Patrol sprinkled with the Phoenix King theme.

It is time to accept it. I was right when I said that Imrik will be one of, if not the most popular character in the game, and he indeed is the most popular character in the game. I believe CA have learned from their mistake.

TheWattman said:

ArneSo said:

Dwarfs should get 3 LPs so you can just send them against whoever to be honest.

I agree. Thorek Ironbrow in Karak Azul, either Thorgard Cromson or Malakai in Kraka Drak and Josef Bugman in the Mountains of Mourn. Grimm Burlokson can be LH.

Maedrethnir said:

It was, and all the good boys want Finubar. It makes little sense for High Elves to fight against Nurgle, for they have a deep rivalry with Slaanesh. It should be explored.

I do know that it will happen. I expect a cross promotion with the Old World.

ArneSo said:

Only a small and very vocal minority of hardcore HE fans. Fans which are to biased to think about it objectively.

Personal bias aside mate, it will 100% be Ailsinn and the Sea Patrol. You can bet on that.

Maybe you’ll get Finubar as a FLC for the combined map but Ca will never pick him for a LP. That simply won’t happen and we all know it. Time to accept it.

I agree that Aislinn takes priority over Finubar any day of the week and the DLC spot belongs to Aislinn. But Finubar could be a nice FLC character if, for example, CA wants a playable prescence in the Gates or Lost Isles of Elithis. But the main focus will be on Aislinn and the navy, stationed in the City of Spires.

Aislinn should be a Wulfhart-like character for Finubar, alongside Caradryan and Korhil. He is an obscure character of little value.

Makes no sense.

Aislinn is the Main Admiral of the HE navy. He’s the Chosen of Mathlann. He is the guy who commands the fleet. Not Finubar.

Making Aislinn a LH would be like making Tyrion a LH.

The next HE LP will be Naval themed and it will be Aislinn. Finubar is no Admiral or general, hes not even a fighter. He has no reason to ever leave his Palace in Lothern since his sole job is to be a politician.

Aislinn is the only realistic candidate for another HE LP and we all know it. It will be him.

Let’s make a deal, if it’s indeed Finubar and not Aislinn, I’ll buy you the DLC. If it’s Aislinn you’ll buy it for me. Deal?

It makes perfect sense.

Yes, he is the Sealord and he is the Herald of Mathlann, but he also is an obscure nobody with a poor track record of personal combat:

1. Army Book - he gets gutted by Lokhir
2. Sons of Ellyrion - he gets smashed by a sea beast
3. The End Times - he commits a suicide

Let's not compare Aislinn to Tyrion. The latter is a star player of High Elves, while the former barely got any spotlight. I don't want Aislinn to be LH, but Wulfhart-like lord. He doesn't deserve to be LH.


Factually incorrect. Finubar is all those three things. He is the Avatar of Asuryan and fits Game3 narrative like a glove. He combines both naval and the Phoenix King themes.

No, I disagree, Finubar is the most realistic candidate for another HE LP. His very presence would sell the DLC.

A few quotes about him:

Finubar fought with his golden sword, slaying the druchii as quickly as they climbed the walls.The Phoenix King was a fine swordsman, but his talents were those of peace, not war, and the White Lions were called upon to protect their liege lord on more than one occasion.

“Lead the mages of fire and water to Lothern,” said Teclis. “Counsel Tyrion and Finubar, for they are warriors and are ruled by the heart. They will have need of your wisdom in the dark days to come, Tyrion especially...”

The Phoenix King was still weak from the druchii sorcery that had slain his White Lions, but Tyrion knew it was more than luck that kept him alive. Finubar was the mortal vessel of Asuryan’s fire, and the Creator God did not suffer weaklings to guide his chosen people.

Korhil swept his mighty axe left and right, while Finubar fought like a berserker, all thoughts of restraint lost in the fury of battle.

No, thank you, but I'm not a fan of gambling.

Because deep inside you know that you would lose.

Maedrethnir#1968

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

ArneSo said:

Maedrethnir said:

Finubar vs. Slaaneshi spawn would be the best outcome, yes. It makes the most sense.

Urgh that would be terrible.

No, it would be excellent. And people would love it.

Nah dude and it was already discussed to death. Aislinn is what the People want. He will be the excellent choice against Gutrot Spume.

Finubar might has a slim chance to be a LH... but a LL and faction leader? Literally zero chance. That simply will never happen and deep inside you know that pretty well.

But let’s not start this debate again.

It was, and all the good boys want Finubar. It makes little sense for High Elves to fight against Nurgle, for they have a deep rivalry with Slaanesh. It should be explored.

I do know that it will happen. I expect a cross promotion with the Old World.

Only a small and very vocal minority of hardcore HE fans. Fans which are to biased to think about it objectively.

Personal bias aside mate, it will 100% be Ailsinn and the Sea Patrol. You can bet on that.

Maybe you’ll get Finubar as a FLC for the combined map but Ca will never pick him for a LP. That simply won’t happen and we all know it. Time to accept it.

No, not only. Many men of fine tastes want to have the Avatar of Asuryan represented in the game. And many more will want him considering that we are going straight into the Realm of Chaos. By the time Game3 comes, he will be in everybody's minds, for better or worse. I'll make sure of it.

Yes, we most definitely should take personal bias aside, it clouds judgement and it is not not a good look in general, It will be 100% Finubar and the High Elf Sea Patrol sprinkled with the Phoenix King theme.

It is time to accept it. I was right when I said that Imrik will be one of, if not the most popular character in the game, and he indeed is the most popular character in the game. I believe CA have learned from their mistake.

TheWattman said:

ArneSo said:

Dwarfs should get 3 LPs so you can just send them against whoever to be honest.

I agree. Thorek Ironbrow in Karak Azul, either Thorgard Cromson or Malakai in Kraka Drak and Josef Bugman in the Mountains of Mourn. Grimm Burlokson can be LH.

Maedrethnir said:

It was, and all the good boys want Finubar. It makes little sense for High Elves to fight against Nurgle, for they have a deep rivalry with Slaanesh. It should be explored.

I do know that it will happen. I expect a cross promotion with the Old World.

ArneSo said:

Only a small and very vocal minority of hardcore HE fans. Fans which are to biased to think about it objectively.

Personal bias aside mate, it will 100% be Ailsinn and the Sea Patrol. You can bet on that.

Maybe you’ll get Finubar as a FLC for the combined map but Ca will never pick him for a LP. That simply won’t happen and we all know it. Time to accept it.

I agree that Aislinn takes priority over Finubar any day of the week and the DLC spot belongs to Aislinn. But Finubar could be a nice FLC character if, for example, CA wants a playable prescence in the Gates or Lost Isles of Elithis. But the main focus will be on Aislinn and the navy, stationed in the City of Spires.

Aislinn should be a Wulfhart-like character for Finubar, alongside Caradryan and Korhil. He is an obscure character of little value.

Makes no sense.

Aislinn is the Main Admiral of the HE navy. He’s the Chosen of Mathlann. He is the guy who commands the fleet. Not Finubar.

Making Aislinn a LH would be like making Tyrion a LH.

The next HE LP will be Naval themed and it will be Aislinn. Finubar is no Admiral or general, hes not even a fighter. He has no reason to ever leave his Palace in Lothern since his sole job is to be a politician.

Aislinn is the only realistic candidate for another HE LP and we all know it. It will be him.

Let’s make a deal, if it’s indeed Finubar and not Aislinn, I’ll buy you the DLC. If it’s Aislinn you’ll buy it for me. Deal?

It makes perfect sense.

Yes, he is the Sealord and he is the Herald of Mathlann, but he also is an obscure nobody with a poor track record of personal combat:

1. Army Book - he gets gutted by Lokhir
2. Sons of Ellyrion - he gets smashed by a sea beast
3. The End Times - he commits a suicide

Let's not compare Aislinn to Tyrion. The latter is a star player of High Elves, while the former barely got any spotlight. I don't want Aislinn to be LH, but Wulfhart-like lord. He doesn't deserve to be LH.


Factually incorrect. Finubar is all those three things. He is the Avatar of Asuryan and fits Game3 narrative like a glove. He combines both naval and the Phoenix King themes.

No, I disagree, Finubar is the most realistic candidate for another HE LP. His very presence would sell the DLC.

A few quotes about him:

Finubar fought with his golden sword, slaying the druchii as quickly as they climbed the walls.The Phoenix King was a fine swordsman, but his talents were those of peace, not war, and the White Lions were called upon to protect their liege lord on more than one occasion.

“Lead the mages of fire and water to Lothern,” said Teclis. “Counsel Tyrion and Finubar, for they are warriors and are ruled by the heart. They will have need of your wisdom in the dark days to come, Tyrion especially...”

The Phoenix King was still weak from the druchii sorcery that had slain his White Lions, but Tyrion knew it was more than luck that kept him alive. Finubar was the mortal vessel of Asuryan’s fire, and the Creator God did not suffer weaklings to guide his chosen people.

Korhil swept his mighty axe left and right, while Finubar fought like a berserker, all thoughts of restraint lost in the fury of battle.

No, thank you, but I'm not a fan of gambling.

Because deep inside you know that you would lose.

Deep inside I trust in Asuryan. He will lead us.