Mortal Representatives: Tzeentch

TheWattman#7460

The fact that the Chaos Gods will form seperate races is encouraging in terms of content for each god, especially for named characters. There is a fairly good chance that each god will recieve upwards of 4 lords each, 2 Daemon and 2 Mortal champions to lead their forces. Of course the standard for each race in WH2 has been 6 lords per race, but personally I think that would be too much for just one god and bloat the Chaos roster into a swamp. So this thread, working under the assumption that 4 lords per god (and this rule would be more than enough to properly represent Kislev and Cathay as well), will tackle the question on what mortal representatives should lead the forces of Tzeentch. Whether or not we should adhear strictly to the armybook or if there is room to go beyond it.

Now first and foremost, if we go strictly by the armybooks, this would be an open-and-shut case. Tzeentch's representatives in 8th edition Warriors are Vilitch the Cursling and Galrauch the Great Drake, both of whom are Lord-class characters. Thing is, there is another major mortal character for Tzeentch, one that could probably match both of these candidates in terms of both power and popularity within the community. Egrimm van Horstmann. Lets go through them:

Vilitch the Cursling is the fushion of two brothers, one feeble magician and a barbarian brute. Vilitch, the magician, was favoured of the two and became the dominant mind. He was put in charge of the attack on Averheim in the End Times, but was tricked back into the Chaos Realm by a feint of Karl Franz. Tzeentch was displeased and turned control over to the brute.

Galrauch the Great Drake was once a Dragon of Caledor, fighting Chaos on the Isle of the Dead alongside Aenarion. His Dragon Prince died and in revenge, Galrauch bit off and swallowed the head of a Lord of Change. The spirit of the head overtook Galrauch, who was corrupted into a Chaos Dragon, even though the battle was won by the Elves. Since then, Galrauch have only appeared rarely, smashing various Dwarf and Bretonnian settlements.

Egrimm van Horstmann was a wizard of the Imperial Colleges of Magic, but over time his mind turned dark and was corrupted by Tzeentch. He sowed seeds of corruption inside the colleges and ultimately betrayed the Empire, freed the Chaos Dragon Baudros and flew to the Chaos Wastes to start a new cult called the Cabal.

IMO, Egrimm van Horstmann deserves to be a lord of Tzeentch in WH3. His rivalry with the Empire is iconic, perhaps the most appropriate rivalry to pit against the coming Ulric update, or perhaps one bringing in Marius Leitdorf the Mad Count. Out of all of these characters, Horstmann is perhaps the most impactful, certainly more than Galrauch. Galrauch himself I feel would perhaps do better as Hero character like the Green Knight, appearing to the forces of Tzeentch when they need it. Im just not convinced that a brutish monster lord is the way to go for the forces of Tzeentch. Vilitch isn't that much of an impactful character either and I wouldn't mind if CA decided to go with Horstmann and Galrauch instead

What do you think guys? Should Egrimm van Horstmann make an appearance at the expense of one of the armybook characters?

angry_rat_lover#9467

As long as Kairos Fateweaver is the LL of Tzeentch on release I dont care who else gets in on the tzeentch race, hes a cool bird

Red_Dox#2328

No love for Helbrass?
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/280765/champions-of-chaos-aekold-helbrass

Andy Yes, I would rather see van Horstmann then Vilitch, since I deem him the more interesting character for gameplay purposes.

------Red Dox

ScreamimgEnvy

Vilitch The Curseling is my favorite!

TheGuardianOfMetal#3661

Egrimm and Aekold!

DeadpoolSW#7283

Galrauch is perfect LH material.

As for the other two, I prefer Egrimm due to his very interesting lore, a turncoat within the Light order that caused irrevocable damage to that college.

Maedrethnir#1968

More dragons is always good, but... But what about Aekold Helbrass, he is life and hope at their best. I want them all.

Maksbo

I would love for Egrim to be added. I agree he is iconic, and he was one the characters I found most interesting back in the days when I started playing WFB on 4th ed. I feel the chaos characters of 4th were much better than those of 8th

Zekerath#3609

I'll mostly copy paste my comment from a way earlier thread about similar topic.

As cool as Egrimm is, I find Vilitch much more interesting personally. I feel like Egrimm's tale is rather generic, a wizard who turned to evil by the promise of power. Vilitch has that as well as wish for revenge against his brother, and when Tzeentch granted Vilitch power, it came with a twist fitting for the Changer of Ways. Also visually Egrimm to me at least looks rather generic chaos sorcerer lord, whilst Vilitch with his mutant body seems more unique.

Hope both would be added at some point, of course, but I'd prefer Vilitch first.

TheWattman#7460

Red_Dox said:

No love for Helbrass?
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/280765/champions-of-chaos-aekold-helbrass

Andy Yes, I would rather see van Horstmann then Vilitch, since I deem him the more interesting character for gameplay purposes.

------Red Dox

Maedrethnir said:

More dragons is always good, but... But what about Aekold Helbrass, he is life and hope at their best. I want them all.

I'd say he's 2nd behind Egrimm in importance, perhaps more suited as a LH?

Zekerath#3609

DeadpoolSW said:

Galrauch is perfect LH material.

Of all the Tzeentchian characters, I think Changeling would fit most to the spot of LH. He could even be special in a sense that he'd work best as world map agent rather than as an army unit, having high chance to succeed on any hero action he tries, and having more varied and wider selection of the actions as well rather than the usual array. The perfect infiltrator, perfect saboteur.

dodge33cymru#1936

I'd love to see Egrimm, would be a change for a Chaos lord to be bringing life with his steps, I imagine a similar effect to Alarielle. I'm a big Tzeentch but Galrauch really doesn't interest me and I can't look at Vilitch without thinking "man, what happened to you Cait Sith?"

RamsesIII#4621

Aside from Kairos Fateweaver, one of my favorites is the Blue Scribes. Though they could either be a LL or a LH.

TheWattman#7460

Zekerath said:

I'll mostly copy paste my comment from a way earlier thread about similar topic.

As cool as Egrimm is, I find Vilitch much more interesting personally. I feel like Egrimm's tale is rather generic, a wizard who turned to evil by the promise of power. Vilitch has that as well as wish for revenge against his brother, and when Tzeentch granted Vilitch power, it came with a twist fitting for the Changer of Ways. Also visually Egrimm to me at least looks rather generic chaos sorcerer lord, whilst Vilitch with his mutant body seems more unique.

Hope both would be added at some point, of course, but I'd prefer Vilitch first.

That's probably the best way to represent Vilitch tbh. Take the foundations from Luthor, Sisters and Malus and make his campaign a battle between minds. I imagine he would be the first Tzeentch expansion after launch, if Horstmann doesn't steal all the spotlight right away.

Zekerath said:

DeadpoolSW said:

Galrauch is perfect LH material.

Of all the Tzeentchian characters, I think Changeling would fit most to the spot of LH. He could even be special in a sense that he'd work best as world map agent rather than as an army unit, having high chance to succeed on any hero action he tries, and having more varied and wider selection of the actions as well rather than the usual array. The perfect infiltrator, perfect saboteur.

Daemon LH that would be yes, if its even possible to do a shapeshifter justice in Total War. Preferably with a mortal LH as well.

saweendra#3399

angry_rat_lover said:

As long as Kairos Fateweaver is the LL of Tzeentch on release I dont care who else gets in on the tzeentch race, hes a cool bird

dunno man there is big hole in the middle so some mono LL need to fil it, mortal ones can fill it

DeadpoolSW#7283

Zekerath said:

DeadpoolSW said:

Galrauch is perfect LH material.

Of all the Tzeentchian characters, I think Changeling would fit most to the spot of LH. He could even be special in a sense that he'd work best as world map agent rather than as an army unit, having high chance to succeed on any hero action he tries, and having more varied and wider selection of the actions as well rather than the usual array. The perfect infiltrator, perfect saboteur.

I'd say they could do either/both of them as LHs. The reason I said Galrauch (other than him being related to the thread topic) is that he isn't as interesting/stand out as much compared to the other Tzeentch characters- if one of them had to be relegated to LH, why not the dragon?

Zekerath#3609

DeadpoolSW said:

Zekerath said:

DeadpoolSW said:

Galrauch is perfect LH material.

Of all the Tzeentchian characters, I think Changeling would fit most to the spot of LH. He could even be special in a sense that he'd work best as world map agent rather than as an army unit, having high chance to succeed on any hero action he tries, and having more varied and wider selection of the actions as well rather than the usual array. The perfect infiltrator, perfect saboteur.

I'd say they could do either/both of them as LHs. The reason I said Galrauch (other than him being related to the thread topic) is that he isn't as interesting/stand out as much compared to the other Tzeentch characters- if one of them had to be relegated to LH, why not the dragon?

I don't think we should necessarily force characters into LH just because: there is no reason for every race to even have LHs.
I could see Galrauch bringing unique focus for Tzeentch faction, that of chaos dragons. But I give you that, he isn't the most interesting one out there, so he could simply be FLC - like Imrik, really, in many aspects.

DeadpoolSW#7283

Zekerath said:

DeadpoolSW said:

Zekerath said:

DeadpoolSW said:

Galrauch is perfect LH material.

Of all the Tzeentchian characters, I think Changeling would fit most to the spot of LH. He could even be special in a sense that he'd work best as world map agent rather than as an army unit, having high chance to succeed on any hero action he tries, and having more varied and wider selection of the actions as well rather than the usual array. The perfect infiltrator, perfect saboteur.

I'd say they could do either/both of them as LHs. The reason I said Galrauch (other than him being related to the thread topic) is that he isn't as interesting/stand out as much compared to the other Tzeentch characters- if one of them had to be relegated to LH, why not the dragon?

I don't think we should necessarily force characters into LH just because: there is no reason for every race to even have LHs.
I could see Galrauch bringing unique focus for Tzeentch faction, that of chaos dragons. But I give you that, he isn't the most interesting one out there, so he could simply be FLC - like Imrik, really, in many aspects.

I am firmly on the side of LHs only when necessary, I just find Galrauch to fit that role quite well (though this is a leftover of me thinking there would be no monos, so...).

Maedrethnir#1968

Since we are getting Cathay, it makes sense to make Galrauch DLC LL and send him on a mission to corrupt Celestial Dragons.

OdTengri#8235

Red_Dox said:

No love for Helbrass?
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/280765/champions-of-chaos-aekold-helbrass

Andy Yes, I would rather see van Horstmann then Vilitch, since I deem him the more interesting character for gameplay purposes.

------Red Dox

Vilitch would be a nice additional character for Norsca, Engram is a superior version of Archaeon and is even more deserving of inclusion that the so called "Everchosen"

LordSolarMach#5538

I'd like to see the 8th edition WoC lords stick to the WoC. We've already got Sigvald, round them out with Vilitch, Valkia, and Festus.

The monogods should start with their named Greater Daemons. Then for LPs get: Egrimm van Horstmann, Dechala the Denied One, Tamurkhan, and Arbaal the Undefeated.

Mr_Finley7#4571

I loved Aekold Helbrass due to how he goes against the stereotypical portrayals of Chaos Champions and Tzeentch in general. I doubt well see him but he would be my top pick