GPU Usage & WH3 Questions

mattkiff#8039

Figured I'd post to see if anyone else has similar issues or could offer advice.

Whenever I play battles, I've started monitoring my computer specs via MSI Afterburner to see if if I can identify my bottleneck, if any. GPU usage varies wildly, up to 98% zoomed out in battle, but zoomed in can drop to 50%. Obviously, this tanks fps from 80's to low 30's when the lines clash and you zoom in. Campaign map performs better, with relatively stable GPU usage at 99%.

CPU usage remains steady, never getting above 40%. I've tried switching from DX11 to DX12 (BETA), I've endlessly tweaked graphics settings and resolutions but to no avail. Unlimited video memory is always checked. I've also tried forcing Nvidia's control panel AA, but that doesn't seem to solve the issue.

Does anyone else experience this GPU usage variance? Is this due to issues with WH2's optimization, limited multi-threading, under-developed DX12, etc.?

I have heard 3k's relative optimization is excellent comparatively. Will WH3 be able to implement this level of optimization? Or since this is a trilogy of conjoined games, will WH3 have the same issues?

WH2 and 3 would have so much potential if the performance and optimization were more stable.

My system:

AMD Ryzen 3700X

Nvidia RTX 2070 Super

16 GB RAM 3600Mhz

Astraeus#6689

mattkiff said:

Unlimited video memory is always checked.

You have no need to do this, so do not do it! Better to be using GPU vRAM only and not system RAM too.

Bomdur#5716

100% GPU is normal for me in a lot of games. I've a GeForce 970 (planning to change this soon) and a i7 10700k. I get around 50-60fps in every battle. I think that with your GPU you should run this game without any problems (at least in 1080p). Did you have overclocked you GPU? probably it isn't an stable config

I'll attach settings and benchmark for you to compare:
This are my settings:

This are my test results in skaven benchmark:

LordCommander#3741

Bomdur said:

100% GPU is normal for me in a lot of games. I've a GeForce 970 (planning to change this soon) and a i7 10700k. I get around 50-60fps in every battle. I think that with your GPU you should run this game without any problems (at least in 1080p). Did you have overclocked you GPU? probably it isn't an stable config

Dude I have my old 1060GTX lying around somewhere. If you want it and don't live in another hemisphere you can have it. I hate seeing people suffer.

mattkiff#8039

Bomdur said:

100% GPU is normal for me in a lot of games. I've a GeForce 970 (planning to change this soon) and a i7 10700k. I get around 50-60fps in every battle. I think that with your GPU you should run this game without any problems (at least in 1080p). Did you have overclocked you GPU? probably it isn't an stable config

I'll attach settings and benchmark for you to compare:
This are my settings:

This are my test results in skaven benchmark:

Just to clarify, 99% GPU usage is a good thing, from what I understand that means the GPU is being utilized to its max for the best possible framerate. But for whatever reason, in TWW2 usage varies depending on where you look in battle.

Whenever it dips past 90%, the FPS will drop. I guess I don't understand why the GPU is being utilized fully in the campaign at some angles, but more demanding angles seem to drop.

I haven't overclocked any of my components, from what I understand I'm not the only one to see this issue. I do 1080 and 1440, but I changed to your exact settings in 1080, see below.

Here's the Arkhan quest battle, zoomed out.



Here's that same battle zoomed in.



I guess I just don't understand why the GPU usage tanks so badly when zoomed in. CPU sitting at 26%, but that angle destroys the fps.

BrynjarK#6108

Nice done @Bomdur . Inspired i took the same screens:










I dont play with ultra, cause of lag but @LordCommander send him your graphic card man. What a noble thing to suggest, ill help with shipping fees. PM me

philosofool#6595

Are you running any mods? If so, disable all of them and run a benchmark in the game. I'm not trying to be a jerk with the italics, but I really have seen people in this forum ask questions like this and ignore the advice to turn off the mods. Mods can sometimes do weird stuff; you have to double check that.

Anyway, DX12 isn't supposed to help much w/ Nvidia cards, so also try turning that off.

Turn off unlimited video memory. It basically just prevents the game from lowering setting when there's a problem, but you should not be having a problem with your card, which has ample memory for this game.

Have you ever had AMD drivers or drivers for a different gen of Nvidia card on this machine? If so, get Display Driver Unistaller, remove everything, and reinstall current Nvidia drivers for your 2070.

mattkiff#8039

philosofool said:

Are you running any mods? If so, disable all of them and run a benchmark in the game. I'm not trying to be a jerk with the italics, but I really have seen people in this forum ask questions like this and ignore the advice to turn off the mods. Mods can sometimes do weird stuff; you have to double check that.

Anyway, DX12 isn't supposed to help much w/ Nvidia cards, so also try turning that off.

Turn off unlimited video memory. It basically just prevents the game from lowering setting when there's a problem, but you should not be having a problem with your card, which has ample memory for this game.

Have you ever had AMD drivers or drivers for a different gen of Nvidia card on this machine? If so, get Display Driver Unistaller, remove everything, and reinstall current Nvidia drivers for your 2070.

Thanks for the reply. Nope, no mods & I play DX11 since DX12 just is pointless at the moment,

I'll try the Display Driver fix and see if that does anything. Nothing is OC'ed but I did change my ram frequency to it's potential of 3600mhz in the bios, would that cause any issues? Or is this some kind of memory leak in the GPU for this game?

Just an aside, I tested other games like War Thunder, Hitman 2 and XCOM 2, all showing near 99% GPU usage in game. Apparently the issue is unique and specific to TWW2.

I had reached out to Total War technical support, though I don't think a SEGA rep will have much advice.

mattkiff#8039

I had also re-installed all my GPU drivers, the game still has the same issue of not using the GPU % fully and tanking fps.

Perhaps @CA_Matthew would be able to assist or has some insight? I can post any info you may need.

psychoak#6605

As noted, never use the DX12 beta, it's terrible.

Your problem is simple, you don't have one. This is just another example of draw calls hosing the works.

Any good game engine isn't rendering stuff you can't see. First, your two shots are different subject material. One is pretty lines of troops off by themselves, the other is combat. This means blood, combat calculations. Second, from far away, everything isn't rendered. If they only have blood decals being rendered on the models once you get up close, then those draw calls are never made until you zoom in anyway.

The way objects are rendered, draw calls are made by the CPU. For each independently animated object in a frame, there MUST be a draw call. Shadows and reflections are another draw call, per source. Blood is itself an additional draw call, and then again, more calls for reflections and shadows.

If your blood can be shaded and reflect light, you rapidly add up to a substantial number of draw calls just from all that blood splatter. Throw in the usual light effects from fire effects, etc, and zooming in on combat is a blood bath. It overloads your CPU, all those additional draw calls slow down how fast the GPU gets the directions for the next frame, adding delay and thus reducing your frame rate, while utilizing your GPU less.

Now, if we had an actual DX12 engine, you could put it into DX12, and use all 8 of your cores to efficiently feed the GPU with all those endless draw calls being created for pretty pictures and terrible performance. But we don't.

mattkiff#8039

psychoak said:

As noted, never use the DX12 beta, it's terrible.

Your problem is simple, you don't have one. This is just another example of draw calls hosing the works.

Any good game engine isn't rendering stuff you can't see. First, your two shots are different subject material. One is pretty lines of troops off by themselves, the other is combat. This means blood, combat calculations. Second, from far away, everything isn't rendered. If they only have blood decals being rendered on the models once you get up close, then those draw calls are never made until you zoom in anyway.

The way objects are rendered, draw calls are made by the CPU. For each independently animated object in a frame, there MUST be a draw call. Shadows and reflections are another draw call, per source. Blood is itself an additional draw call, and then again, more calls for reflections and shadows.

If your blood can be shaded and reflect light, you rapidly add up to a substantial number of draw calls just from all that blood splatter. Throw in the usual light effects from fire effects, etc, and zooming in on combat is a blood bath. It overloads your CPU, all those additional draw calls slow down how fast the GPU gets the directions for the next frame, adding delay and thus reducing your frame rate, while utilizing your GPU less.

Now, if we had an actual DX12 engine, you could put it into DX12, and use all 8 of your cores to efficiently feed the GPU with all those endless draw calls being created for pretty pictures and terrible performance. But we don't.

As in, the current TW Warhammer engine is confined to DX11 and is likely to stay that way in 3? Vulcan or DX12 would be fantastic, but I wonder if DX12 will ever come out of this "beta". 3k apparently abandoned it and I can't find any word from CA of that changing for future titles.

psychoak#6605

Yes, I expect we are indeed doomed to DX11 for game 3 as well. One of the several reasons I'm not excited about it.

We essentially antiquated the single active state wrapper that is DX11, when Intel created the first i7. That CA would leave Total War, the series most in need of DX12 and Vulkan, languishing like this, is atrocious. Some shooter with 30 objects on screen doesn't even need the functionality unless you're using a 10 year old CPU with a new GPU.

mattkiff#8039

Well while that is disappointing, it isn't exactly surprising. Appreciate your input, hopefully CA can at least make better use of multi-threading like they did in 3k, but we'll see.

Pretty unfortunate that their "DX12 compatibility" announcement in 2016 was a gimmick selling point.

Jam#4399

LordCommander said:

Dude I have my old 1060GTX lying around somewhere. If you want it and don't live in another hemisphere you can have it. I hate seeing people suffer.

BrynjarK said:

I dont play with ultra, cause of lag but @LordCommander send him your graphic card man. What a noble thing to suggest, ill help with shipping fees. PM me

I like you guys!