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My theory why Araby and DoW were not introduced to game 2

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  • #915734#915734 Registered Users Posts: 978
    edited February 2021
    The debate Araby is dead not dead will never end, everyone see it from a different perspective, just let time be the judge.
  • MaelasMaelas Registered Users Posts: 5,180
    edited February 2021
    saweendra said:

    dow straight up got retconned

    They weren't retconned, that's a headcanon. They had a whole End Times chapter dedicated to them, mentioning every single RoR.

    As a comparison, Ivan, clamoured by many as a given for a Kislev LL, wasn't even namedropped in End Times, and was replaced by a new captain of the Gryphon Legion.
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 20,493
    edited February 2021
    Maelas said:

    saweendra said:

    dow straight up got retconned

    They weren't retconned, that's a headcanon. They had a whole End Times chapter dedicated to them, mentioning every single RoR.

    As a comparison, Ivan, clamoured by many as a given for a Kislev LL, wasn't even namedropped in End Times, and was replaced by a new captain of the Gryphon Legion.
    which chapter ?

    yes ivan was retconned by realm of the ice queen rpg expansion of kislev , we don't know he will come , but fixing him is easy just make him a bastard son, or use his rules to flesh out the new captain

    unlike all dow which had orcs for say i think it needs to southern realms and head to that direction

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • Biggles#4266Biggles#4266 Registered Users Posts: 3,257
    Maelas said:

    ArneSo said:

    Maelas said:

    If DoW get their entire core roster, including all their RoRs, I'm certainly not against having them used as a way to flesh out Araby and Myrmidian cults.

    But if it happens to be a choice between the Fen Beast and Arabyans Elephants, between Ruglud's Armored Orcs or some old flying carpet unit, then I'll always choose what they had in their actual army book .

    They should never be able to recruit any Orcs. That doesn’t fit modern warhammer anymore.
    Then you'd be butchering DoW ! You're advocating to remove the only thing that makes them interesting, distinct and cool. They are a race of Tileans princes employing mercenaries, any mercenaries, to do their bidding. That include Dark Elves, Lizarmden, Ogres and anyone that is willing to fight for money.

    And it's not like they'd have an entire army of Greenskins, there is ONE mercenary regiment of Orcs, they are entirely unique, they bring something new, they've been DoW since the first version of the race, why shouldn't they come ?
    Orcs don't care for money. With 8th edition orcs I can't see a single one deciding to go to a human settlement to fight for them.

    They would also be killed on sight.
  • Neodeinos#5871Neodeinos#5871 Registered Users Posts: 16,743
    ArneSo said:

    MrDragon said:

    ArneSo said:


    Regarding Araby... it’s Dead.

    It's not actually dead-dead. (Just... very corpse-like)
    It is however very unlikely.
    They have not said they will "never" do Araby. They've just said there are "no plans". Which is not the same thing.
    Let's just say... I wouldn't hold my breath for them.
    A lot would have to change and a lot of other content would have to be added before Araby might even go to the drawing table, let alone be produced.

    CA confirmed it’s dead twice and if we think about it realistically, it won’t fit on the WH3 map anyways.
    Allow me to question your reading comprehension skills.
  • MaelasMaelas Registered Users Posts: 5,180

    Maelas said:

    ArneSo said:

    Maelas said:

    If DoW get their entire core roster, including all their RoRs, I'm certainly not against having them used as a way to flesh out Araby and Myrmidian cults.

    But if it happens to be a choice between the Fen Beast and Arabyans Elephants, between Ruglud's Armored Orcs or some old flying carpet unit, then I'll always choose what they had in their actual army book .

    They should never be able to recruit any Orcs. That doesn’t fit modern warhammer anymore.
    Then you'd be butchering DoW ! You're advocating to remove the only thing that makes them interesting, distinct and cool. They are a race of Tileans princes employing mercenaries, any mercenaries, to do their bidding. That include Dark Elves, Lizarmden, Ogres and anyone that is willing to fight for money.

    And it's not like they'd have an entire army of Greenskins, there is ONE mercenary regiment of Orcs, they are entirely unique, they bring something new, they've been DoW since the first version of the race, why shouldn't they come ?
    Orcs don't care for money. With 8th edition orcs I can't see a single one deciding to go to a human settlement to fight for them.

    They would also be killed on sight.
    Then why does Gorfang makes a point of protecting trade routes that goes through his lands ?

    Orcs aren't mindless beasts, they are overgrown childs with a love for fighting and scraps, but they are not berserking maniacs. You can goad them and use them if you convince them that your enemy will offer both a better fight and better loot.

    Ruglud is exactly the same, he's disloyal and prone to betraying, he merely fight for you because you offer him a nice fight and pillaging opportunities. He's an orc almost obsessed with loot. Among all orckind, he makes the most sense to be a mercenary.
  • obippo#5152obippo#5152 Registered Users Posts: 2,692
    edited February 2021
    Nazred said:

    @ArneSo Why are you so keen to say Araby is dead? The Op just speculates why araby isn't coming. That's the discussion, what the motive is behind CA's decision.

    He predicted some months ago that "cathay is literally dead" so if he says araby is dead and has 0% chance is more likely to happen than ever. o:)

    happy to see you around here again!
    Always be aware when a Content Refusing Troll Brigade (CRTB) representative is near. Contact your local Witch Hunter for further info.


  • obippo#5152obippo#5152 Registered Users Posts: 2,692

    I think the OvN team has already made a really fun and enjoyable Araby already.

    holy **** havent tried that and it looks fantastic. just subscribed
    Always be aware when a Content Refusing Troll Brigade (CRTB) representative is near. Contact your local Witch Hunter for further info.


  • Captain_Rex#1635Captain_Rex#1635 Registered Users Posts: 40,879
    obippo said:

    Nazred said:

    @ArneSo Why are you so keen to say Araby is dead? The Op just speculates why araby isn't coming. That's the discussion, what the motive is behind CA's decision.

    He predicted some months ago that "cathay is literally dead" so if he says araby is dead and has 0% chance is more likely to happen than ever. o:)

    happy to see you around here again!
    Why are you spreading lies?

    That 1 comment was from 2019 and I can’t even remember it. I always was a huge Cathay supporter. 😂

    Now let’s look at this lovely thread I created a few months ago....

    Summon the Elector Counts!
  • Biggles#4266Biggles#4266 Registered Users Posts: 3,257
    Maelas said:

    Maelas said:

    ArneSo said:

    Maelas said:

    If DoW get their entire core roster, including all their RoRs, I'm certainly not against having them used as a way to flesh out Araby and Myrmidian cults.

    But if it happens to be a choice between the Fen Beast and Arabyans Elephants, between Ruglud's Armored Orcs or some old flying carpet unit, then I'll always choose what they had in their actual army book .

    They should never be able to recruit any Orcs. That doesn’t fit modern warhammer anymore.
    Then you'd be butchering DoW ! You're advocating to remove the only thing that makes them interesting, distinct and cool. They are a race of Tileans princes employing mercenaries, any mercenaries, to do their bidding. That include Dark Elves, Lizarmden, Ogres and anyone that is willing to fight for money.

    And it's not like they'd have an entire army of Greenskins, there is ONE mercenary regiment of Orcs, they are entirely unique, they bring something new, they've been DoW since the first version of the race, why shouldn't they come ?
    Orcs don't care for money. With 8th edition orcs I can't see a single one deciding to go to a human settlement to fight for them.

    They would also be killed on sight.
    Then why does Gorfang makes a point of protecting trade routes that goes through his lands ?

    Orcs aren't mindless beasts, they are overgrown childs with a love for fighting and scraps, but they are not berserking maniacs. You can goad them and use them if you convince them that your enemy will offer both a better fight and better loot.

    Ruglud is exactly the same, he's disloyal and prone to betraying, he merely fight for you because you offer him a nice fight and pillaging opportunities. He's an orc almost obsessed with loot. Among all orckind, he makes the most sense to be a mercenary.
    Okay. Can you show me where you saw Gorfang protected trade routes and who travelled on them? I'm guessing at best Goblins.

    If it does say how humans, elfs, skaven, and beastmen would travel through his realm to trade and it's 8th ed I will eat my hat. Bonus points for a review of the farmers market which is every other Thursday with fresh Khemri fruit and craft dwarven beer sold by Bugman himself.

    Ruglud is out of date and no orc thinks like that anymore. No human would allow an orc anywhere near their city.
  • Tennisgolfboll#5877Tennisgolfboll#5877 Registered Users Posts: 13,762
    obippo said:

    Nazred said:

    @ArneSo Why are you so keen to say Araby is dead? The Op just speculates why araby isn't coming. That's the discussion, what the motive is behind CA's decision.

    He predicted some months ago that "cathay is literally dead" so if he says araby is dead and has 0% chance is more likely to happen than ever. o:)

    happy to see you around here again!
    The forces of fantasy....

    Oh yes Araby has never been as alive as now!!
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • Cryptic_Freeze#8555Cryptic_Freeze#8555 Registered Users Posts: 628
    ArneSo and his absolutisms
  • RomeoReject#1666RomeoReject#1666 Registered Users Posts: 2,294
    ArneSo said:

    MrDragon said:

    ArneSo said:

    MrDragon said:

    ArneSo said:


    Regarding Araby... it’s Dead.

    It's not actually dead-dead. (Just... very corpse-like)
    It is however very unlikely.
    They have not said they will "never" do Araby. They've just said there are "no plans". Which is not the same thing.
    Let's just say... I wouldn't hold my breath for them.
    A lot would have to change and a lot of other content would have to be added before Araby might even go to the drawing table, let alone be produced.

    CA confirmed it’s dead twice and if we think about it officially, it won’t fit on the WH3 map anyways.
    Show me where they explicitly said Araby will "never" come.
    I've seen the posts you're talking about and they never completely ruled it out.
    They have however shot down any chance of it happening any time soon pretty thoroughly yes.
    As for the WH3 map: Oh yes, that's not gonna happen. They would have to be secluded to the grand campaign mega-map and or get a new map of their own with some kind of distant future DLC.

    I'm not saying it's likely. Heck I'm sceptical it will ever happen, but it's not an absolute infallible truth.

    How about we agree on this:
    "The chances of Araby happening are statistically negligible in the next five years."
    I think that is a more reasonable statement to make, if a bit wordy.
    Saying it's 'dead' is indeed faster and more elegant, just not entirely truthful.
    They said they don’t have plans for Araby in general. That’s pretty clear.

    Of course they can change their mind... but look at the map... there is no space anymore. Araby is filled with playable Characters already.

    We have to accept it mate. It’s dead, buried and rotten. We might get some Araby units with the DoW though...
    Mmm... Just like there were no plans for DLC for DLC races that same month.

    It's a shame CA never changes their mind on things, could you imagine if we could get a Wood Elves DLC some day?
  • gholin#9362gholin#9362 Registered Users Posts: 1,401
    CA changes their mind all the time. We weren't going to have DLC for DLC either and look what happened. The statement on Araby was over a year ago and they basically ruled out Cathay with the same logic, that there was simply no official content and they couldn't make it up themselves without GW.

    Things have changed and CA may be holding new cards up their sleeve now.

    Cathay and the revival of the Old World definitely give Araby a chance.

    And who knows, Maybe CA wants to surprise us on this last game 2 DLC and give us one more race. That's what I hope for. Lord packs have kind of run their course in this game. Beastmen and dwarves seem prime candidates for updating in game 3. End the game with one last shocker.



  • NazredNazred Registered Users Posts: 980
    @obippo haha thanks for the warm welcome.

    I'm slowly starting to come back. But always expect me to be at the forefront of the fight for Araby.

    Btw super hyped to play with kislev
  • HisShadowBG#8316HisShadowBG#8316 Registered Users Posts: 3,452
    Your delusion of Araby coming are quite amusing :D:D

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • Draxynnic#3149Draxynnic#3149 Registered Users Posts: 11,574

    Maelas said:

    Maelas said:

    ArneSo said:

    Maelas said:

    If DoW get their entire core roster, including all their RoRs, I'm certainly not against having them used as a way to flesh out Araby and Myrmidian cults.

    But if it happens to be a choice between the Fen Beast and Arabyans Elephants, between Ruglud's Armored Orcs or some old flying carpet unit, then I'll always choose what they had in their actual army book .

    They should never be able to recruit any Orcs. That doesn’t fit modern warhammer anymore.
    Then you'd be butchering DoW ! You're advocating to remove the only thing that makes them interesting, distinct and cool. They are a race of Tileans princes employing mercenaries, any mercenaries, to do their bidding. That include Dark Elves, Lizarmden, Ogres and anyone that is willing to fight for money.

    And it's not like they'd have an entire army of Greenskins, there is ONE mercenary regiment of Orcs, they are entirely unique, they bring something new, they've been DoW since the first version of the race, why shouldn't they come ?
    Orcs don't care for money. With 8th edition orcs I can't see a single one deciding to go to a human settlement to fight for them.

    They would also be killed on sight.
    Then why does Gorfang makes a point of protecting trade routes that goes through his lands ?

    Orcs aren't mindless beasts, they are overgrown childs with a love for fighting and scraps, but they are not berserking maniacs. You can goad them and use them if you convince them that your enemy will offer both a better fight and better loot.

    Ruglud is exactly the same, he's disloyal and prone to betraying, he merely fight for you because you offer him a nice fight and pillaging opportunities. He's an orc almost obsessed with loot. Among all orckind, he makes the most sense to be a mercenary.
    Okay. Can you show me where you saw Gorfang protected trade routes and who travelled on them? I'm guessing at best Goblins.

    If it does say how humans, elfs, skaven, and beastmen would travel through his realm to trade and it's 8th ed I will eat my hat. Bonus points for a review of the farmers market which is every other Thursday with fresh Khemri fruit and craft dwarven beer sold by Bugman himself.

    Ruglud is out of date and no orc thinks like that anymore. No human would allow an orc anywhere near their city.
    I don't recall the specific source, but I believe it has been mentioned.

    From a rational perspective, though, it's something that has to happen somewhere. There's a trade route that passes through the southern Dark Lands. I think it connects to the Silver Road rather than to Death Pass, but both passes are partially controlled by Greenskins.

    I do recall, though, that greenskins can be pretty fickle about whether they let trade caravans through. Sometimes they're willing to accept tribute for safe passage. Sometimes the urge to have a scrap is too strong and they'll attack anyway.

    Which is the thing with greenskin mercenaries. Being paid to go into a scrap is something that they'd happily do... in principle. However, they have problems with delayed gratification. The scrap had better be right there, or they'll start one. And once the scrap is over, they're likely to start eyeing off their employer for Round 2, even when this compromises the potential to get paid for a Round 2 later. And sometimes they'll start a fight early even when the enemy is within sight (hello, Animosity!). Which, in addition to having a history of conflict, all combines to mean that Order races generally do not attempt to hire greenskins. Mind you, I don't think Tileans and Estalians have the history of sharing their territory with greenskins before forming a nation that the Empire and Bretonnia have.
  • dge1dge1 Registered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 24,012
    Hijacked thread with over two pages of off topic opinionated comments. closed but OP has the option to try again if they desire.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain
    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”–George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.

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