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Teclis

Loupi_Loupi_ Registered Users Posts: 2,360

Mount Options

Teclis' mount options are very strange. His basic "barded Ithilmar steed" which is supposed to be heavily armoured (like prince) only has light armour. This mount should be given +25 armour, and +50g making him 750g on this mount (the same change could be made for alarielles ithilmar steed mount).

He should be given a cheaper "elven steed mount" like the arch mages, with 90 speed and 25 armour for 700 with his other stats being the same as now.

His damn phoenix mount really should be reserved for campaign (make it a "campaign exclusive mount" for use in MP lobbies). Its addition defeats the whole theme of teclis being a squishy bad-in-melee super-mage. I really hope it's not too late for this and this bird has not already flown the nest.

A better flying mount for him would be something that only gives him mobility and not combat ability, like a pegasus, costing roughly 900g. A pegasus fits teclis much better thematically and would be better for HE balance overall.

(As a side note, high elf mages should have pegasus mount options much like how empire, DE, bretonnia and lizardmen have squishy flying options for their casters)

Balancing

His main balancing issue (other than the phoenix) is the potion of charoi. Currently the base cost is 80g when it should realistically cost twice as much. I think the simplest way is just to increase its cost to 160g (If phoenix mount doesn't get removed then the potion should be unavailable on the phoenix).

A fun change would be to remove martial prowess from him (since he clearly has no martial prowess) and replace it with "Lileath's blessing" a special rule he had on TT. This could be a simple passive ability that reduces his miscast chance.
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Comments

  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,175
    Martial Prowess/Mastery shouldn't even be on any SEs, because it's supposed to portray the HE's ability to fight in disciplined formations, which SEs by definition never do.

    The Parrot needs to go away. I heard (don't quote me on that) it was only included because some dev thought it was "cool". If it's SP-exclusive it should be a campaign objective reward, just to assure that the AI will never field it.

    The sword also needs to be changed back to its original effect.

  • DaBoyzAreBackInTownDaBoyzAreBackInTown Registered Users Posts: 325
    edited February 22
    Like the broad outline, my preferred implementation would be:

    - Remove Peclis from multiplayer
    - Standardise the Ithilmar mount with others
    - Don't feel strongly about adding a 90 speed horse mount for him, happy either way
    - No pegasus (or eagle for that matter), he should not have a flying mount. Not every single HE lord needs to be able to fly it is a bizarre "Faction rule" that makes no sense.
    - Give Sword of Teclis back its old effects BUT also keep the new increased WoM regen on the item
  • WitchbladeWitchblade Registered Users Posts: 902
    A 90+ speed mount that's relatively cheap would be a huge buff to Teclis, but that may not be a bad thing.
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Registered Users Posts: 10,248
    Eagle mounts not peg mounts, they had eagle mounts in table top.
  • Loupi_Loupi_ Registered Users Posts: 2,360

    Eagle mounts not peg mounts, they had eagle mounts in table top.

    for mages sure, but I mentioned pegasus mounts only cos teclis shouldnt get an eagle mount. mages should have pegasus and eagle mounts though
  • Loupi_Loupi_ Registered Users Posts: 2,360
    Teclis should also have the full range of lore passives to choose from.
  • GreenColouredGreenColoured Registered Users Posts: 1,631
    If they keep the stupid Parrot mount then it should come with serious penalties in both SP and MP.


    Like in order to remain in control and alive, Teclis devotes a fair bit of his WoM reserve just to have it as a mount. So flying phoenix Teclis ends up casting way less spells than regular Teclis in return for being an OP flying SEM who can also cast spells.
  • Loupi_Loupi_ Registered Users Posts: 2,360

    If they keep the stupid Parrot mount then it should come with serious penalties in both SP and MP.


    Like in order to remain in control and alive, Teclis devotes a fair bit of his WoM reserve just to have it as a mount. So flying phoenix Teclis ends up casting way less spells than regular Teclis in return for being an OP flying SEM who can also cast spells.

    disagree, its already a ridiculously expensive phoenix mount with no vortex or rebirth, making it worse at magic makes no sense. Its just a cheese unit that ruins a good characters design more than it being too strong, its not a very competitive mount.
  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 7,084
    giving his steed more barding is reasonable.

    But i think it's by design he doesn't get a cheap 90 speed mount. That would completely change his ability to support kite builds. God forbid different characters be good for different things. Teclis on a horse has a great spell kit but doesn't have the maneuverability of a pure mage lord. It's nice taking the one you prefer when you need it.
  • Black_PhillipBlack_Phillip Registered Users Posts: 563
    edited February 23
    I don't think Teclis' Arcane Phoenix mount is bad at all from a balance perspective since it's so expensive in a roster full of expensive units. It's almost always better to bring a separate arcane phoenix and teclis on a horse separately that way you get rebirth and the vortex ability. I just think it's bad because it makes little sense that he even got the mount. I wouldn't mind if it was removed as a mount option completely.
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 8,513
    Lol nah to adding more cancer to this toxic faction. So ppl want 3 phoenix with a tempest, regrowth peg or both.

    It's almost always better to bring a separate arcane phoenix and teclis on a horse separately that way you get rebirth and the vortex ability.

    100% not, its like ppl didnt know chario exists or they seriously think its better on horse than an arcane phoenix that basically destroys every single air unit
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  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 5,823
    Yes you totally get more value from the gold with a feral phoenix and teclis on the side. It's a free elven rebirth and free elven Vortexes.
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 8,513
    lmao these poor elves trying so hard to hide chario. Boy lol how insulting to Duck and his team
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  • ThibixMagnusThibixMagnus Registered Users Posts: 609
    though losing the rebirth and the vortex might just be an acceptable insurance cost for the survivability it gives to teclis. Expending quite a few more winds in MUs could be worth the trade if the opponents has the tools to snipe him on horse. Not fond of it but it does seem viable?

    But anyway, most people here agree Peclis has to leave MP. Even if CA agrees, they have to provide something to the one DLC buyer who might get angry about multiplayer, maybe give the mount to the archmage of High magic instead, or get Caradryan as FLC and let him ride an arcane for those who have the DLC. Otherwise it might be just easier to get rid of the parrot in 3rd game.

    There are other ways than the parrot to make Teclis look "cool" without breaking his character. Warhammer 3 really needs to invest in conveying this "cool" intent to foot characters, when fighting greater daemons like Elsa in the trailer. Teclis could lose all his mounts, get some limited teleportation, and once per battle levitate and rain devastation; while melee foot lords should have sync kills with big monsters a la dawn of war. Gandalf didn't need to ride a dragon to look "cool" in front of the balrog, the small vs big is precisely the point.
  • WitchbladeWitchblade Registered Users Posts: 902
    The parrot mount is really not OP anymore. Its hitbox is still a bit too small probably, but the only time we see Teclis on his parrot in competitive play seems to be to take advantage of the net + breath attack cheese without counterplay. That's definitely a very cancerous option at the moment, yet another reason not to have the game have any true nets, only up to 90% slows.
  • UagrimUagrim Registered Users Posts: 1,575

    The parrot mount is really not OP anymore. Its hitbox is still a bit too small probably, but the only time we see Teclis on his parrot in competitive play seems to be to take advantage of the net + breath attack cheese without counterplay. That's definitely a very cancerous option at the moment, yet another reason not to have the game have any true nets, only up to 90% slows.

    A 90% slow instead of a net wouldn't change anything in that interaction.

    Flying mages on monsterous mounts are the strongest lord choice in the game especially in rosters that can support them well. You are immune from ground melee units unless you choose to engage them, your casts are almost impossible to interrupt, you can cast it almost everywhere and you get the monsters melee stats in case you do have to engage in melee fights.

    Teclis is supposed to be a fragile caster that was the base idea behind his character. Giving him a monster mount just throws the whole theme out of the window.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 9,715
    I want parrot gone it kills the character asthetic
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 8,513
    Its here to stay, there hasnt been any precedent of a mount getting removed.

    Removing it from mp would be very interesting
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  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,175
    yst said:

    Its here to stay, there hasnt been any precedent of a mount getting removed.

    Removing it from mp would be very interesting

    Then they should start with this one. I see no reason to keep this for any game mode. Teclis' getting mounted was never advertised as part of the DLC.

  • WojmirVonCarsteinWojmirVonCarstein Registered Users Posts: 1,359

    yst said:

    Its here to stay, there hasnt been any precedent of a mount getting removed.

    Removing it from mp would be very interesting

    Then they should start with this one. I see no reason to keep this for any game mode. Teclis' getting mounted was never advertised as part of the DLC.
    I think they can keep it for SP. It's SP. If the player wants peclis, they can have peclis. If they choose not to, then they don't.

    Just remove from QB. Easy fix and everyone is happy
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 9,715

    yst said:

    Its here to stay, there hasnt been any precedent of a mount getting removed.

    Removing it from mp would be very interesting

    Then they should start with this one. I see no reason to keep this for any game mode. Teclis' getting mounted was never advertised as part of the DLC.
    I think they can keep it for SP. It's SP. If the player wants peclis, they can have peclis. If they choose not to, then they don't.

    Just remove from QB. Easy fix and everyone is happy
    AI puts it in Phoenix may be if they make AI never pick it. As well i will try to put move pass it.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • Loupi_Loupi_ Registered Users Posts: 2,360
    yst said:

    Its here to stay, there hasnt been any precedent of a mount getting removed.

    Removing it from mp would be very interesting

    they kinda removed units though, e.g. the sartosa axemen
  • Noob_for_LifeNoob_for_Life Registered Users Posts: 423
    People been asking they remove the parrot forever, among other mounts such as Wulfrik’s mammoth. An it’s not gonna happen. Think people need to just get over it and except Peclis into there lives. Some people like it, some don’t. If you don’t like it simple solution is don’t use it. I miss old Teclis too but I don’t think complaining about it here will change a thing.
  • User_ClueUser_Clue Registered Users Posts: 195
    Loupi_ said:

    yst said:

    Its here to stay, there hasnt been any precedent of a mount getting removed.

    Removing it from mp would be very interesting

    they kinda removed units though, e.g. the sartosa axemen
    They did that before release though, not after, and they technically didn't remove them, they just redesigned them.
  • AWizard_LizardAWizard_Lizard Registered Users Posts: 1,481
    Loupi_ said:

    yst said:

    Its here to stay, there hasnt been any precedent of a mount getting removed.

    Removing it from mp would be very interesting

    they kinda removed units though, e.g. the sartosa axemen
    The who?
    Prettiest of the foot overlords.
  • Black_PhillipBlack_Phillip Registered Users Posts: 563
    yst said:

    lmao these poor elves trying so hard to hide chario. Boy lol how insulting to Duck and his team

    When have you seen Teclis on his phoenix perform well in a tournament? Honest question. Felkon and most tournament players I know say it's not worth bringing, and I stopped bring him on his bird as well. Just wasn't getting as good value as him on a horse and a separate arcane phoenix.
  • Loupi_Loupi_ Registered Users Posts: 2,360
    User_Clue said:

    Loupi_ said:

    yst said:

    Its here to stay, there hasnt been any precedent of a mount getting removed.

    Removing it from mp would be very interesting

    they kinda removed units though, e.g. the sartosa axemen
    They did that before release though, not after, and they technically didn't remove them, they just redesigned them.
    hence why I said "kinda removed them"
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,175

    yst said:

    lmao these poor elves trying so hard to hide chario. Boy lol how insulting to Duck and his team

    When have you seen Teclis on his phoenix perform well in a tournament? Honest question. Felkon and most tournament players I know say it's not worth bringing, and I stopped bring him on his bird as well. Just wasn't getting as good value as him on a horse and a separate arcane phoenix.
    You mean those tournaments that have all sorts of limitations in place to prevent the sort of abusive play Parrotman would lend himself to?

  • Black_PhillipBlack_Phillip Registered Users Posts: 563

    yst said:

    lmao these poor elves trying so hard to hide chario. Boy lol how insulting to Duck and his team

    When have you seen Teclis on his phoenix perform well in a tournament? Honest question. Felkon and most tournament players I know say it's not worth bringing, and I stopped bring him on his bird as well. Just wasn't getting as good value as him on a horse and a separate arcane phoenix.
    You mean those tournaments that have all sorts of limitations in place to prevent the sort of abusive play Parrotman would lend himself to?
    What is this abusive play that can't be done in tourneys you're talking about? I never have issues with him in QBs either.
  • Lord_DistamorfinLord_Distamorfin Registered Users Posts: 1,250
    Loupi_ said:


    Mount Options

    His damn phoenix mount really should be reserved for campaign (make it a "campaign exclusive mount" for use in MP lobbies). Its addition defeats the whole theme of teclis being a squishy bad-in-melee super-mage. I really hope it's not too late for this and this bird has not already flown the nest.
    We don't want it either. Take it out of the game completely.
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