DLC is a bit weird honestly.

Bright_Eyes

Now the giddy excitement is out the way, the DLC looks a bit weird to be honest. Now please don't take this as criticism of the DLC. I as a hardcore fan am loving the update and reworking of Cao Cao and Yuan Shao. If they do this for Liu Bei and other major factions I am going to be very happy.

But when you think about what you are actually getting in the DLC purchase it's not much. You are getting the 200 AD start date, which is fun but nothing incredible and Liu Yan. I find it very bizarre that you get Liu Yan in a Guandu chapter pack. Doesn't seem to make any sense. I mean I'm not complaining because I always wanted him, but it also doesn't fit thematically at all. And you are getting one new faction in a paid chapter pack? Why not Yuan Tan for Guandu and A World Betrayed? Very strange. They could have made Zhang Xiu playable in Guandu also (he's on the map). I thought AWB was stingy with only two new factions but we are getting even less here. If this is the precedent going forward then we aren't getting much in Chapter Packs.

In many ways it feels like we are paying for the game to be updated, which I don't mind personally as a hardcore fan, but how are casual players going to react to this? I can't see it getting good reviews. AWB was already much preferred by fans than other players and this adds even less.

It also makes me question how much more content we are going to get. On the main menu screen it looks like there is room for one more chapter pack:



And honestly I think we might only get one more. Liu Yan/Zhang as part of the Guandu DLC came out of left-field and if they were going to do a Yi invasion pack you'd think they'd save him for that. Sun Quan is a shoe-in for a Chibi or Three Kingdoms chapter pack (probably why they haven't put him in Guandu), but I don't know if we'll get even Ma Chao at this rate by how slowly they are adding new factions to chapter packs. I think Guan Yu at Fan Castle is a no hoper at this point honestly.

At this rate it could be northern expansion-chibi/three kingdoms pack for Sun Quan, and that's it. I personally don't mind because at this point all I wanted was Yuan Shao, Cao Cao rework and Liu Yan. I'm completely content, but how do you guys feel?

Laindesh

It's no weirder than AWB or MoH.

You get the chapter pack with a new scenario, events and objectives. It's what people wanted.

Not sure myself whats free and whatsnot yet. But the DLC also pays for the work on the free stuff.

Rewan

Yeah DLC's are meant to support the plateform updates, as it should be.

Bright_Eyes

Rewan said:

Yeah DLC's are meant to support the plateform updates, as it should be.

I agree and it's a good model, but this so blatantly does it that it just comes across as a bit weird. You are getting very little in the DLC and the update for core mechanics is more substantial.

@Laindesh you got two factions in AWB, five in MoH. In Guandu you are getting one faction which wasn't involved in the conflict.

Rewan

Well think of it this way : YS & CC in FD have reworked mechanics which pretty much makes them "new" factions. (Like Cao Cao got his whole Intrigue thing and Yuan Shao has the Captain Armoury).

The biggest questions regarding the DLC is whether or not the Nothern Army will be available to CC & YS in a) any start date and b) whether or not you own the DLC. There is also the question regarding whether the 5 new units of Cao Cao & Yuan Shao will be locked to their 200 startpos.

Sun Ce Tiger Guard & Handmaid Cav' were not given to Sun Jian (except in custom battles) - which was a shame - but that was because they were sorta considered as "different" factions.


Also : they can definitely squeeze more chapter packs on the timeline, right now it looks like there may be only one more but only time will tell. Really.

ArneSo

Yeah I have to say that I’m quite disappointed by the DLC and since all new characters will come for free anyways, I probably won’t buy it. Have zero interest in Liu Yan and his jolly son.

Rewan

Yeah I have to say that I’m quite disappointed by the DLC and since all new characters will come for free anyways, I’ll probably won’t buy it. Have zero interest in Liu Yan and his jolly son.

You have also no interest in having more content for the game then. You either make paywalls or content supporting packs. Content Supporting Packs may seem "lacking" as far as giving your money goes but it's mostly just there to show your interest in the game.

united84

This chapter pack is more exciting than Nanman. I will say that.

I am not sure why people think that you are not getting anything exclusive from this DLC,

1. Liu Yan/Liu Zhang playable. Ok, I will admit this is probably one of the boring paid faction. I think making Yuan Tan and Yuan Shang playable to fight over Yuan Shao's domain would be more exciting and reason to buy. However, if you like fighting the Nanmans. Then, this is one of the faction that is actually closer to the Nanman aside from Shi Xie.

2. Northern Army - 20 new units I believe. This feature alone is pretty interesting and is unique only to this chapter pack. Once the expansion pack lands in late 2021, I suppose we will be getting Goguryeo. Then, this chapter pack will complement the next expansion pack very well. We shall crush the koreans with the might of the Northern army.

3. With the updated mechanics to the Imperial protectorate. Role playing as Cao Cao as the manipulator will be more rewarding. If you dont have time to start a new game to try and catch the Emperor (remember, not everyone is good in TW). Then, this chapter pack offers a perfect Cao Cao starting position as the chief manipulator.

Laindesh

Rewan said:

Yeah I have to say that I’m quite disappointed by the DLC and since all new characters will come for free anyways, I’ll probably won’t buy it. Have zero interest in Liu Yan and his jolly son.

You have also no interest in having more content for the game then. You either make paywalls or content supporting packs. Content Supporting Packs may seem "lacking" as far as giving your money goes but it's mostly just there to show your interest in the game.

Pardon me sir, but if i compare this DLC with a beer out in the city.......the price is the same and the DLC beats the **** out of what i get with the beer. :P

Bright_Eyes said:

Rewan said:

Yeah DLC's are meant to support the plateform updates, as it should be.

I agree and it's a good model, but this so blatantly does it that it just comes across as a bit weird. You are getting very little in the DLC and the update for core mechanics is more substantial.

@Laindesh you got two factions in AWB, five in MoH. In Guandu you are getting one faction which wasn't involved in the conflict.

in AWB sun ce and lu bu was the focus as it was their stories. MoH was a good dlc tho (it really was, if you look away from bugs).
Look at it like this: would you rather have 2 new factions for the 200 CE campaign only with new mechanics? or get cao cao and yuan shao a much needed mechanic overhaul? Also: Cao Cao and Yuan Shao is the centerpiece of this chapter pack, it only makes sense CA focus on those 2 rather than make some random schmuck shine over them.

Bright_Eyes

Rewan said:

Yeah I have to say that I’m quite disappointed by the DLC and since all new characters will come for free anyways, I’ll probably won’t buy it. Have zero interest in Liu Yan and his jolly son.

You have also no interest in having more content for the game then. You either make paywalls or content supporting packs. Content Supporting Packs may seem "lacking" as far as giving your money goes but it's mostly just there to show your interest in the game.

I agree with your general sentiment which is why I've pre-ordered. But CA also need to give us stuff in the DLC to incentivise us to pay for the free updates and reworks. I love Liu Yan, but they should have given at least one other faction.

Rewan

But CA also need to give us stuff in the DLC to incentivise us to pay for the free updates and rework

That's debatable. I personnally don't feel that way at all. If it was by itself an empty pack worth 9.99 but fueling free content for everybody I would still buy it. But I guess I'm just that weird when it comes to my philosophies.

Alduinee

The fact we got no FLC faction at all after Shi Xie not having unique units worries me a lot about the future of the game's support

Rewan

Alduinee said:

The fact we got no FLC faction at all after Shi Xie not having unique units worries me a lot about the future of the game's support

Yes no FLC but two main faction reworks.
Rework of the Imperial Authority
Rework of the Council

CLEARLY WORRYING

Bright_Eyes

Nah I can't really agree with that. The free characters and reworks are far more valuable.

Avenger237

I think you should remain more optimistic; there is really ALOT of content in the game already, the issue is the shocking patching which makes it very annoying to play at the moment. If the upcoming patch fixes the bulk of the issues than I think TW3K is in great shape going forward.

The DLC might seem "skinnier" than the others but the reworked Yuan Shao/Cao Cao and Imperial Authority/Council actually freshens up playthroughs with other factions also; frankly if FLCs are going to be rushed (imo) like Shi Xie than I prefer this type of updates going forward.

Also the fact that Imperial Authority got reworked tells me that CA is actively listening to our feedback even if they stay silent (the high level details shows that they have clearly read many of the threads on this last year).

Going forward, the Northern Expansion is basically guaranteed so if I see the following DLCs I would be pretty happy:

- Chibi
- Conquest of Shu
- Start of 3 Kingdoms Period
- Zhuge/Sima Contention
- Rise of Jin

Rasmus242

Liu Yan feels like he was intended to be FLC but was bundled in. Overall though I agree that CA's approach to DLC's in 3K are weird because they do huge free updates and content and then lock sometimes fairly minimal stuff in the actual DLC for the chapter pack. I'm not complaining because content is content but people might wonder what they are paying for unless the start date is special (tons of people in other games usually prefer a very early base start date and then sandbox their way forward).

But yes, I expect another chapter pack + northern expansion. Maaaaaaybe Goguryeo. Personally I'm pretty fine with that even though I know there's so much that could be filled out. Just not sure if there's a high need for it. Not saying I wouldn't embrace endless content for 3K but still.

Laindesh

I actually like the inclusion of Liu Yan, i kinda expected him for this DLC and im happy he came.

We needed to fill out positions in the map more and liu yan does just that.

Whiskeyjack_5691

I like the look of all the updates and reworked mechanics in this update.

The actual content in the DLC seems lacking however. Sure, Yuan Shao and Cao Cao got complete mechanical overhauls that almost make them new factions, but I get that for free with the update anyway and can play with those mechanics in any of the other start dates.
Liu Yan & Liu Zhang's starting locations seem more interesting to me than their faction mechanics, but the characters themselves don't hype me up much.

I'm still not buying this DLC until I see the Patch Notes though.

shatti

It will be awesome if the keep this style of patching.
Next dlc is three kingdoms including
-Sun quan rework
-Lui bai rework
-northen expansion
-focus on court politics
-jin dynasty late campaign events

EmeraldThanatos

They can always expand the start date bar to fit more chapter packs.

Scyvh

Bright_Eyes said:

Rewan said:

Yeah I have to say that I’m quite disappointed by the DLC and since all new characters will come for free anyways, I’ll probably won’t buy it. Have zero interest in Liu Yan and his jolly son.

You have also no interest in having more content for the game then. You either make paywalls or content supporting packs. Content Supporting Packs may seem "lacking" as far as giving your money goes but it's mostly just there to show your interest in the game.

I agree with your general sentiment which is why I've pre-ordered. But CA also need to give us stuff in the DLC to incentivise us to pay for the free updates and reworks. I love Liu Yan, but they should have given at least one other faction.

Yeah, that's also why I pre-ordered all the previous DLC. I'll wait for the patch notes this time though. My main issue with this (amazing still) game remains the stale endgame. Just one update/dlc there to make the actual three kingdoms stage more fun.

MasterSlayeX

I felt they should of had Liu bei for this scenario and this scenario only as a mechanic be able to recruit and befriend yellow turbans . I mean he got Zhou cang , liao Hua , could of gotten pei yuan Shao and he worked with Liu pi and gong du during this period of time

stilesdiners

I'm usually extremely critical of CA, that's no secret. On this matter, though, I actually support them. It's a meaty update that addresses so many issues people have with the game. I'll buy depending on how badly bugged the game is. Will buy a copy for someone who's on the fence if CAis particularly good about patching major issues

Krunch

I would not put too much stock in the timeline. It would be very easy for them to just update the timeline's visuals.

TheTrueLordAndy

Bright_Eyes said:

Now the giddy excitement is out the way, the DLC looks a bit weird to be honest. Now please don't take this as criticism of the DLC. I as a hardcore fan am loving the update and reworking of Cao Cao and Yuan Shao. If they do this for Liu Bei and other major factions I am going to be very happy.

But when you think about what you are actually getting in the DLC purchase it's not much. You are getting the 200 AD start date, which is fun but nothing incredible and Liu Yan. I find it very bizarre that you get Liu Yan in a Guandu chapter pack. Doesn't seem to make any sense. I mean I'm not complaining because I always wanted him, but it also doesn't fit thematically at all. And you are getting one new faction in a paid chapter pack? Why not Yuan Tan for Guandu and A World Betrayed? Very strange. They could have made Zhang Xiu playable in Guandu also (he's on the map). I thought AWB was stingy with only two new factions but we are getting even less here. If this is the precedent going forward then we aren't getting much in Chapter Packs.

In many ways it feels like we are paying for the game to be updated, which I don't mind personally as a hardcore fan, but how are casual players going to react to this? I can't see it getting good reviews. AWB was already much preferred by fans than other players and this adds even less.

It also makes me question how much more content we are going to get. On the main menu screen it looks like there is room for one more chapter pack:



And honestly I think we might only get one more. Liu Yan/Zhang as part of the Guandu DLC came out of left-field and if they were going to do a Yi invasion pack you'd think they'd save him for that. Sun Quan is a shoe-in for a Chibi or Three Kingdoms chapter pack (probably why they haven't put him in Guandu), but I don't know if we'll get even Ma Chao at this rate by how slowly they are adding new factions to chapter packs. I think Guan Yu at Fan Castle is a no hoper at this point honestly.

At this rate it could be northern expansion-chibi/three kingdoms pack for Sun Quan, and that's it. I personally don't mind because at this point all I wanted was Yuan Shao, Cao Cao rework and Liu Yan. I'm completely content, but how do you guys feel?

I don't agree. I think once they reach DLC's for time periods after ChiBi they will have to have vassal kingdom factions such as Guan Yu etc. There will be too few factions on the map otherwise and they would get to the point that they are too big. I don't think that they would miss the opportunity for a Ma Chao faction. I think major factions will be selling points for DLC's like Liu Bei, Sun Quan but they will add more. I also don't think it will necessarily think it will be the same amount of new factions each time.

Anyways, I predict next DLC will be the northern expansion that will be more like the nanman dlc with multiple norther tribes and Han Sui perhaps will become playable.

Vin362

Krunch said:

I would not put too much stock in the timeline. It would be very easy for them to just update the timeline's visuals.

I agree we have seen the campaign selection receive an update already so there is no reason why they wouldn't update again as needed.

TheGreatPamphlet

Chapter packs do look incredibly over-priced for what they offer. Even mods for R1, M2 and Empire used to have different starting dates, but now you have to pay for a difference as substantial as half a decade... If fans cannot help but buying them though, there isn't much you can do.

Anyway, there aren't many chapter packs remaining. That could even be the last, but there's probably one last chapter pack remaining, between the northern tribes and Korea (probably the last DLC for 3K).

TheTrueLordAndy

TheGreatPamphlet said:

Chapter packs do look incredibly over-priced for what they offer. Even mods for R1, M2 and Empire used to have different starting dates, but now you have to pay for a difference as substantial as half a decade... If fans cannot help but buying them though, there isn't much you can do.

Anyway, there aren't many chapter packs remaining. That could even be the last, but there's probably one last chapter pack remaining, between the northern tribes and Korea (probably the last DLC for 3K).

$8.99 pre-order price seems pretty good to me. Most hobbies will cost people way more than $9 -$10 four times a year. Personally I really like the new content from what I have seen Liu Yan, new units and mechanics. I think it's worth supporting CA, they really delivered on what the fans were asking for. If we support them we will get more DLC down the road. Hoping to see another 5-6 DLC for this game.

Vin362

Starting dates are something that I expected from a Romance of the Three Kingdoms based game as new factions emerge (the governors of Jing province could be playable in a 209 start date for example) or a new leader moves their family in a new direction (Sun Ce having different mechanics from Sun Jian).

That said I think one issue with Three Kingdoms compared to other Total War games when it comes to DLC is how much of the content is free vs paid and for a lot of Three Kingdoms DLC most of the content was free so far.

TheGreatPamphlet

TheTrueLordAndy said:

TheGreatPamphlet said:

Chapter packs do look incredibly over-priced for what they offer. Even mods for R1, M2 and Empire used to have different starting dates, but now you have to pay for a difference as substantial as half a decade... If fans cannot help but buying them though, there isn't much you can do.

Anyway, there aren't many chapter packs remaining. That could even be the last, but there's probably one last chapter pack remaining, between the northern tribes and Korea (probably the last DLC for 3K).

$8.99 pre-order price seems pretty good to me. Most hobbies will cost people way more than $9 -$10 four times a year. Personally I really like the new content from what I have seen Liu Yan, new units and mechanics. I think it's worth supporting CA, they really delivered on what the fans were asking for. If we support them we will get more DLC down the road. Hoping to see another 5-6 DLC for this game.

Why do you compare it to other hobbies and not the base game, the previous prices and CA's expenses? The Wood Elves and the blood pack, for example, had over 100% and 200% net profit respectively.

TheTrueLordAndy

TheGreatPamphlet said:

TheTrueLordAndy said:

TheGreatPamphlet said:

Chapter packs do look incredibly over-priced for what they offer. Even mods for R1, M2 and Empire used to have different starting dates, but now you have to pay for a difference as substantial as half a decade... If fans cannot help but buying them though, there isn't much you can do.

Anyway, there aren't many chapter packs remaining. That could even be the last, but there's probably one last chapter pack remaining, between the northern tribes and Korea (probably the last DLC for 3K).

$8.99 pre-order price seems pretty good to me. Most hobbies will cost people way more than $9 -$10 four times a year. Personally I really like the new content from what I have seen Liu Yan, new units and mechanics. I think it's worth supporting CA, they really delivered on what the fans were asking for. If we support them we will get more DLC down the road. Hoping to see another 5-6 DLC for this game.

Why do you compare it to other hobbies and not the base game, the previous prices and CA's expenses? The Wood Elves and the blood pack, for example, had over 100% and 200% net profit respectively.

Sure fair point, a company will price based on a target profit margin. But considerations have to be given to peoples price elasticity of demand for the product. Perhaps as a huge fan of the game I have a lower price elasticity of demand i.e. I am less responsive to price changes for CA games than others. If they can get away with a higher price they will. Look at other games who sell skins for characters or dare I mention dota, totally absurd what those games charge for next to nothing. in my view those games are much more absurd with overcharging. CA tends to be fairly generous all things considered when looking at other gaming companies. They always provide some free content with DLC's, you can recruit new unique characters even without the DLC etc. For the paid content there are numerous new units, Liu Yan, reworks, but if the argument is that they should offer some more new playable factions at that price point, I think that is a fair argument. I think one more faction like Yuan Tan or Zhang Xiu would have been fair. So all in all I think they are fair compared to most companies and besides I want them to have decent profit margins so we can keep getting quality content.

As for those sources, they are on resumes so I would take them with a grain of salt. Digging through the financials would be the best way to get more accurate information, but that would be fairly tedious if multiple game revenues are mixed in together on one reporting line item. Regardless, I don't doubt that they make a decent profit margin at those prices but still I don't think that it is overpriced considering other games and the demand for the DLC's for Three Kingdoms.