Changing DLC contents

MODIDDLY1#9212

A question was brought up in the Ghorst thread.

There is a large worry about changing things from previous dlc's, but I was wondering what everyone thought the line was, or duration after a dlc of what can and can't be changed.

Is changing the status of a lord too much? if so, is changing stats? Or factions? Models?
If changing things from a Lord pack is not permitted because it was purchased, could the argument be made for the game as well?

I'd just like to hear what people think can't be changed or can be, and why or why not?

GreenColoured#2445

Why? Who would care if it's changed? Some might get ****, but why aren't they **** that balance patches and reworks exist too?


People purchased the based game too, and it gets changed and altered all the time. Some people are upset, but most people recognize it's for the best.



edit: "p i s s e d" is censored?

Crossil

GreenColoured said:

edit: "p i s s e d" is censored?

Yes.

It's ridiculous, honestly. As if childern go to these forums.

MODIDDLY1 said:

s changing the status of a lord too much? if so, is changing stats? Or factions? Models?
If changing things from a Lord pack is not permitted because it was purchased, could the argument be made for the game as well?

I'd just like to hear what people think can't be changed or can be, and why or why not?

That's, I think, not the issue. The issue is, do any of you expect CA do go to such lengths? And that there's any incentive for them to do that?

So, say they make Ghorst a legendary hero... what exactly did they achieve? Make a character have less overall mechanics and utility, since he's now a legendary hero. Overall, it's nothing but a downgrade overall, as he really doesn't have anything to hold him up in that position. Nor is there really a good enough reason as to why he wouldn't be leading any sort of an army, unlike Green Knight, Kroak and Nakai.

What does CA gain from that? Other than resetting the VC LL counter? A metric they might not even care about. On top of that, CA has not updated any of the Lord Packs up until now, or at least not to any significant level beyond the quickfixes. I think they only really tinkered with Skarsnik's starting situation.

Changing a faction... is even worse when it comes to DLC. DLC overall have had their content maintained over the years, with the sole exception being the moving of Strigoi Ghoul King from it to the base VC roster, as a new version was made for the Bloodlines. That's as far as they've gone but it was overall done because... well, the lord option didn't really matter in comparison to the Bloodline version.

Imma guess this is about Sigvald. So lemme ask you a question. We have Styrkaar, Dechala and Azazel + N'kari and Masque for a Slaanesh faction. Why would Sigvald be needed there? He wouldn't. Slaanesh can work without him. So, why not leave him in Warriors of Chaos, where he can have specific mechanics interacting with Slaanesh WoC units and Slaaneshi factions rather than having most of his already made abilities and such remade for an entirely different faction? That would be a rather unique WoC campaign, compared to another Slaanesh faction campaign, wouldn't it?

I mean... the most that I could see happening is Sigvald being moved to Slaanesh is exchange for Styrkaar, but that still leaves us with a Slaaneshi representative in the WoC roster. Why would CA go to such lengths over just leaving Sigvald in WoC?

MODIDDLY1#9212

For the record, this topic wasn't about Sigvald, or anyone in particular.

I was just curious, as i've seen people say "CA won't change a dlc" and wondered what people thought was acceptable to change, and what was not.

Personally, I would like to see characters like volkmar, izzy, and ghorst to be given separate factions and starting locations.

Crossil

MODIDDLY1 said:

For the record, this topic wasn't about Sigvald, or anyone in particular.

Ah, ok then.

MODIDDLY1 said:

I was just curious, as i've seen people say "CA won't change a dlc" and wondered what people thought was acceptable to change, and what was not.

Personally, I would like to see characters like volkmar, izzy, and ghorst to be given separate factions and starting locations.

Well, in case of actual faction changes rather than races, that actually creates more complexity than it removes, so in that regard you could argue it works. Then the question is what's the incentive for CA, as they seem not really intent on such moves for DLC.... although we haven't really had all that many chances for such moves, as the only DLCs that applies to are GnG, WoC and BM, with the latter two not yet reworked so hard to tell, especially with their reluctance to touch lord packs.

I can reason for Volkmar and Ghorst, they are DLC and it would make their DLC actually a Lord Pack rather than a unit pack. Isabella is, uh... a pet peeve of mine. If she wasn't in then I would argue she could be LH, but since she is... I think there should be other ways. It's hard to imagine them separated, at least willingly. Make her and Vlad's campaign different. Vlad's campaign could be the way it is now, whereas her campaign could instead be about bringing Vlad back to life.... yeah, it's an excuse to not do it, but I find it hard to imagine that they would be willingly separated. Out of all the connections, these two are hard to separate for me. Which is why LH spot could've worked, but that's behind us.

RikRiorik#9890

I'm fine with remaking DLCs at least to a certain extent. For example I hate the implementation of the Anvil of Doom and would love for the model to be changed.

Cortes31#6909

As far as I am concerned CA could change DLC how much they desire.

But I make no mistake, many people will be **** because they are going to be cheated because they feel that this would then not be what they paid for.

Reworking Ghorsts skill tree? That is good to go. Changing Ghorst from LL to LH? Oh, big NO NO. He was sold as LL so he must remain LL, no matter what.
We may not like it but sometimes it is this simple.

doclumbago#6250

there are a couple of Lords that sit oddly at their position and/or faction

I wonder if a Lord/Hero army slot could be the solution.

Meaning you can fit certain characters as Heroes or Lords for an army.
That would solve the Gotrek/Felix dilemma in campaign.
And make Ghorst into a great pumped up Necromancer for MP.

mecanojavi99#6562

Issabella and Gotrek becoming LH is not a problem at all, because no one paid for them, they were FLC, people may like or not that change, but they cannot argue they were cheated or something because they never purchased them in the first place, CA gave them for free.

On the subject of Sigvald, not putting him on the MonoSlaneesh race is like not putting Valkia in MonoKhorne, he is THE Slaneesh Mortal Champion, no one is above him in that regard, Sigvald was added to WoC because at that moment CA didn't had planed about making MonoGods, moving Sigvald is a no problem became you are not losing him, it's the same as giving him a new starting position but inside another race, you are still able to play with him, CA can even give for free a LL to replace him to all those who already had the WoC DLC, like the WE got Drycha for having the original DLC.

JungleElf

mecanojavi99 said:

Issabella and Gotrek becoming LH is not a problem at all, because no one paid for them, they were FLC, people may like or not that change, but they cannot argue they were cheated or something because they never purchased them in the first place, CA gave them for free.

On the subject of Sigvald, not putting him on the MonoSlaneesh race is like not putting Valkia in MonoKhorne, he is THE Slaneesh Mortal Champion, no one is above him in that regard, Sigvald was added to WoC because at that moment CA didn't had planed about making MonoGods, moving Sigvald is a no problem became you are not losing him, it's the same as giving him a new starting position but inside another race, you are still able to play with him, CA can even give for free a LL to replace him to all those who already had the WoC DLC, like the WE got Drycha for having the original DLC.

I 100% agree with you on Sigvald. He's indeed THE mortal champion. I guess it might be a bit of a tricky thing to do for CA (what with Quest Battles and the like), but it should be done. It's not like he's a popular character for the WoC faction anyway. They could give free access to Slaanesh's Sigvald when you have the WoC DLC.

manpersal#3961

On Sigvald I don't see a problem with it as long as they don't charge you for it a second time or they offer a replacement lord for free.

On other possibilities -moving Ghorst or Volkmar- same. To people saying that they can't be moved because they were DLC I'd say that if you want to play them in their current locations you can always launch WH1 or WH2's Mortal Empires.

JungleElf

manpersal said:

On Sigvald I don't see a problem with it as long as they don't charge you for it a second time or they offer a replacement lord for free.

On other possibilities -moving Ghorst or Volkmar- same. To people saying that they can't be moved because they were DLC I'd say that if you want to play them in their current locations you can always launch WH1 or WH2's Mortal Empires.

I don't think a replacement is necessary:
- You'd have access to game 3's Slaanesh roster as Sigvald.
- Kholek and Archaon stay WoC undivided.

mecanojavi99#6562

manpersal said:

On Sigvald I don't see a problem with it as long as they don't charge you for it a second time or they offer a replacement lord for free.

On other possibilities -moving Ghorst or Volkmar- same. To people saying that they can't be moved because they were DLC I'd say that if you want to play them in their current locations you can always launch WH1 or WH2's Mortal Empires.

Giving them new starting positions and their own factions is an improvment of a previous DLC, you get exactly what you paid for, 2 LL and the units that came with them, that is what was advertised, this is a no problem.

mecanojavi99#6562

JungleElf said:

mecanojavi99 said:

Issabella and Gotrek becoming LH is not a problem at all, because no one paid for them, they were FLC, people may like or not that change, but they cannot argue they were cheated or something because they never purchased them in the first place, CA gave them for free.

On the subject of Sigvald, not putting him on the MonoSlaneesh race is like not putting Valkia in MonoKhorne, he is THE Slaneesh Mortal Champion, no one is above him in that regard, Sigvald was added to WoC because at that moment CA didn't had planed about making MonoGods, moving Sigvald is a no problem became you are not losing him, it's the same as giving him a new starting position but inside another race, you are still able to play with him, CA can even give for free a LL to replace him to all those who already had the WoC DLC, like the WE got Drycha for having the original DLC.

I 100% agree with you on Sigvald. He's indeed THE mortal champion. I guess it might be a bit of a tricky thing to do for CA (what with Quest Battles and the like), but it should be done. It's not like he's a popular character for the WoC faction anyway. They could give free access to Slaanesh's Sigvald when you have the WoC DLC.

Quest battles are not a problem, they only would need to change some of the steps, but the final battle is the same, just that Sigvald would use different units.

manpersal#3961

mecanojavi99 said:

manpersal said:

On Sigvald I don't see a problem with it as long as they don't charge you for it a second time or they offer a replacement lord for free.

On other possibilities -moving Ghorst or Volkmar- same. To people saying that they can't be moved because they were DLC I'd say that if you want to play them in their current locations you can always launch WH1 or WH2's Mortal Empires.

Giving them new starting positions and their own factions is an improvment of a previous DLC, you get exactly what you paid for, 2 LL and the units that came with them, that is what was advertised, this is a no problem.

I've certainly seen that argument in the past, which I don't understand, the more starting positions the better.

JungleElf said:

manpersal said:

On Sigvald I don't see a problem with it as long as they don't charge you for it a second time or they offer a replacement lord for free.

On other possibilities -moving Ghorst or Volkmar- same. To people saying that they can't be moved because they were DLC I'd say that if you want to play them in their current locations you can always launch WH1 or WH2's Mortal Empires.

I don't think a replacement is necessary:
- You'd have access to game 3's Slaanesh roster as Sigvald.
- Kholek and Archaon stay WoC undivided.

True, in the end it would be the same case as Volkmar or Ghorst.

mecanojavi99#6562

mecanojavi99 said:

Issabella and Gotrek becoming LH is not a problem at all, because no one paid for them, they were FLC, people may like or not that change, but they cannot argue they were cheated or something because they never purchased them in the first place, CA gave them for free.

On the subject of Sigvald, not putting him on the MonoSlaneesh race is like not putting Valkia in MonoKhorne, he is THE Slaneesh Mortal Champion, no one is above him in that regard, Sigvald was added to WoC because at that moment CA didn't had planed about making MonoGods, moving Sigvald is a no problem became you are not losing him, it's the same as giving him a new starting position but inside another race, you are still able to play with him, CA can even give for free a LL to replace him to all those who already had the WoC DLC, like the WE got Drycha for having the original DLC.

JungleElf said:

manpersal said:

On Sigvald I don't see a problem with it as long as they don't charge you for it a second time or they offer a replacement lord for free.

On other possibilities -moving Ghorst or Volkmar- same. To people saying that they can't be moved because they were DLC I'd say that if you want to play them in their current locations you can always launch WH1 or WH2's Mortal Empires.

I don't think a replacement is necessary:
- You'd have access to game 3's Slaanesh roster as Sigvald.
- Kholek and Archaon stay WoC undivided.

We even may get Be'lakor for the WoC at launch, but giving a FLC LL is not so much because it's necessary but because it would serve to shut up some of the criticism that would come with the decision, Harry the Hammer is a veteran character, with a cool model that at the same time is not difficult to make, he would be a perfect option for FLC.

Timpeyo

I think it would come down too how far CA are happy too go and how much off an uproar there is about something, CA have already given us alot for free including huge updates which is very generous considering some game company's would just leave you with what you have paid for.

They have already shown they are willing to tweak dlcs, change mechanics and alter units. I don't think they would go as far as changing LLs factions unless there's a reason for it in game three, it would require alot off work.

They seem to be changing stats of LLs with large updates and LP releases tho. I'm not sure reskins for LLs would be something they would put the money into but it would be nice if they considered adding new mechanics to those without them maybe as a paid pack

Psychological-Bed#3694

I have paid for all the dlcs in both games and i eould personally love it if they went back changed how some of them are like i hope they move sigvald to the monoslaanesh faction and would like it if they changed ghorst or even removed him tbh. I can see how some people would be annoyed by them changing stuff that they have already paid for but i personally wouldn't have a problem if they did because it would hopefully be changed for the better and it was a long time ago i bought the content anyway

Rob18446

MODIDDLY1 said:

For the record, this topic wasn't about Sigvald, or anyone in particular.

I was just curious, as i've seen people say "CA won't change a dlc" and wondered what people thought was acceptable to change, and what was not.

Personally, I would like to see characters like volkmar, izzy, and ghorst to be given separate factions and starting locations.

I don't think there's a problem with moving lords around or splitting them into new factions. The problem arises when people suggest things like making Ghorst a LH because there you're fundamentally changing the contents of the DLC away from what is advertised.