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Middle-earth Total war Based on the Books Alone

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Comments

  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 249

    Blaced said:

    Anyway, I just point out that LOTR will not have as much monsters and magic as many expected, not saying that I really care ton of monsters

    Another disadvantage is there will not be much dlc to make, which is Extremely important for CA

    There is more than enough DLC to be made. The First and Second Age may be made DLCs like the Three Kingdoms chapter packs (tough I would prefer if they were unique, Saga like, games). If CA follows the policy of 4-6 starting races there's a lot of races left for DLCs, and, hell, they may even flesh out races like the Variags, the Druedain and the Forodwaiths (especially since CA worked with GW, wich has made some Variags models, CA may be let to borrow them).
    and I bet the popularity of the Silmarillion will get a major boost from amazons show.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 249
    SiWI said:

    SiWI said:

    The Problem, as I see it, is that "recreating" LotR instead of using the movies will lose alot of people, who loves the movies but are not so deep in the books that they even recognize a different version.

    I don't think that hiring Alan Lee or John Howe allows you to use the movie looks or look alike, because it would quite amaze me if WB was so sloppy by securing their rights.


    It would also gain many that love the books and not the movies. But I think a well-done mod would bring many of those you speak of back.


    They do not have the authors write at all. I play a boardgame that uses Howe and Lee as well could be hired and then they could legally almost replicate the movies.


    Give more credit to the CA artists.
    I doubt the numbers of people coming for a book only version match those lost to the lack of movie aesthetics.
    And selling a game in the hope someone makes an mod, which may or may not get copyright claims, would be a rather "optimistic" operation.

    Has that boardgame an name? Are you sure that they don't simply use the movie licence in the first place?
    Still I doubt that CA could do "Aragon" like the actor without WB approval. Which is what I think most people hope for, when they hear "TW: LotR".
    I think your right, I am only saying a good amount [like me] would rather have a book-only version and mods could do the trick for those who want the movie portrayal. If they hired lee or how the look could legally be so similar i don't think it would affect sales. Plus i do think CA artists could do a great job on their own.


    War of the ring, and no they do not have the movie license. Many smaller companies use the right to the books, much chepper.
  • Man2008kindMan2008kind Bucharest, RomaniaRegistered Users Posts: 1,450

    SiWI said:

    SiWI said:

    The Problem, as I see it, is that "recreating" LotR instead of using the movies will lose alot of people, who loves the movies but are not so deep in the books that they even recognize a different version.

    I don't think that hiring Alan Lee or John Howe allows you to use the movie looks or look alike, because it would quite amaze me if WB was so sloppy by securing their rights.


    It would also gain many that love the books and not the movies. But I think a well-done mod would bring many of those you speak of back.


    They do not have the authors write at all. I play a boardgame that uses Howe and Lee as well could be hired and then they could legally almost replicate the movies.


    Give more credit to the CA artists.
    I doubt the numbers of people coming for a book only version match those lost to the lack of movie aesthetics.
    And selling a game in the hope someone makes an mod, which may or may not get copyright claims, would be a rather "optimistic" operation.

    Has that boardgame an name? Are you sure that they don't simply use the movie licence in the first place?
    Still I doubt that CA could do "Aragon" like the actor without WB approval. Which is what I think most people hope for, when they hear "TW: LotR".
    War of the ring, and no they do not have the movie license. Many smaller companies use the right to the books, much chepper.
    Indeed. However, Total War Warhammer II outsold both The Witcher 3 and The Elder Scrolls Skyrim on PC, wich means that CA is not a small company anymore and has enough money to buy the movie license.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 249

    SiWI said:

    SiWI said:

    The Problem, as I see it, is that "recreating" LotR instead of using the movies will lose alot of people, who loves the movies but are not so deep in the books that they even recognize a different version.

    I don't think that hiring Alan Lee or John Howe allows you to use the movie looks or look alike, because it would quite amaze me if WB was so sloppy by securing their rights.


    It would also gain many that love the books and not the movies. But I think a well-done mod would bring many of those you speak of back.


    They do not have the authors write at all. I play a boardgame that uses Howe and Lee as well could be hired and then they could legally almost replicate the movies.


    Give more credit to the CA artists.
    I doubt the numbers of people coming for a book only version match those lost to the lack of movie aesthetics.
    And selling a game in the hope someone makes an mod, which may or may not get copyright claims, would be a rather "optimistic" operation.

    Has that boardgame an name? Are you sure that they don't simply use the movie licence in the first place?
    Still I doubt that CA could do "Aragon" like the actor without WB approval. Which is what I think most people hope for, when they hear "TW: LotR".
    War of the ring, and no they do not have the movie license. Many smaller companies use the right to the books, much chepper.
    Indeed. However, Total War Warhammer II outsold both The Witcher 3 and The Elder Scrolls Skyrim on PC, wich means that CA is not a small company anymore and has enough money to buy the movie license.

    I am not saying they cant. Amazon just got rights to do a game it was 7 million. I am just saying if the cost is something they wish not to pay, they could go another avenue.
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,702
    edited March 6

    Blaced said:

    jamreal18 said:

    Blaced said:

    Not saying

    jamreal18 said:

    Blaced said:

    dge1 said:

    I personally don't think it would go very far. Just not enough variety between the potential factions/races to be able to generate a reasonable level of campaign conflict.

    I am unsure how a statement like this could be made if you have read the books. There is far, far more variety in a game based on the books than just the movies.

    Third age mod was unable to use all the diversity available but you can see what they did. That mod alone [again could not do everything] has more variety and campaign gameplay than every TW game not named Warhammer. I have also taken a look at some Warhammer factions and was underwhelmed by the great diversity i am told they have.

    But what would you suggest ca do that has more diversity than a Tolkien tw based on the books?
    So being honest, what monsters are there in the book?

    Fellbeast (mount only)

    Ent (Treeman) (only recruitable for Fangorn, as well the only unit for Fangorn)

    Eagle

    Troll

    That's it, nothing else, no magic, no monster
    So what?
    So lacking Monsters, won't be as fun as Warhammer
    LotR is not about monster.

    I like it for its setting and story.
    I don't mind lacking monster, but some people do, they will disappointed after they realize nearly zero monster
    But how many people love LotR and how many people don't like it? I believe CA knows the answer.

    CA may be worrying those people and not make LOTR"
    Isn't it funny? Some people were disappointed when CA made WH as Total War before but here we go.
    Post edited by jamreal18 on
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,714
    Weren't the films based off the books? All conversions to different media will have cuts and changes and when it's going from such low visual media to such predominantly visual there will be issues in people having very different interpretations.
  • BlacedBlaced Registered Users Posts: 564
    Commisar said:

    Weren't the films based off the books? All conversions to different media will have cuts and changes and when it's going from such low visual media to such predominantly visual there will be issues in people having very different interpretations.

    Movie make plenty unloreful change, especially for Hobbit, for example, Dwarf goat rider
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,702
    edited March 7
    Commisar said:

    Weren't the films based off the books? All conversions to different media will have cuts and changes and when it's going from such low visual media to such predominantly visual there will be issues in people having very different interpretations.

    So what?
    1 person likes some stuff, some person doesn't like it. So CA shall not make it?

    Do you remember EXECUTIONER for DE?
    But people still bought W2.
  • BlacedBlaced Registered Users Posts: 564
    jamreal18 said:

    Commisar said:

    Weren't the films based off the books? All conversions to different media will have cuts and changes and when it's going from such low visual media to such predominantly visual there will be issues in people having very different interpretations.

    So what?
    1 person likes some stuff, some person doesn't like it. So CA shall not make it?

    Do you remember EXECUTIONER for DE?
    But people still bought W2.
    What happen to Executioners?
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,702
    edited March 7
    Blaced said:

    jamreal18 said:

    Commisar said:

    Weren't the films based off the books? All conversions to different media will have cuts and changes and when it's going from such low visual media to such predominantly visual there will be issues in people having very different interpretations.

    So what?
    1 person likes some stuff, some person doesn't like it. So CA shall not make it?

    Do you remember EXECUTIONER for DE?
    But people still bought W2.
    What happen to Executioners?
    Several people dont like its design because the 8th edition dont look like elves themselves and many prefer the 6th edition design

    So it is the same case with LotR. Books or Movies, if people like LotR, they will buy it and we know already that there is high demand for LotR.
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,714
    jamreal18 said:


    So what?
    1 person likes some stuff, some person doesn't like it. So CA shall not make it?

    Do you remember EXECUTIONER for DE?
    But people still bought W2.

    My point being it's not going to be for everyone, there are many people who disliked how the films interpreted things and didn't buy it. There's also people who like how the films did it but not how the books did it. So again no matter what you do will lead to the game splitting the fandom just like the films have.
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,702
    Commisar said:

    jamreal18 said:


    So what?
    1 person likes some stuff, some person doesn't like it. So CA shall not make it?

    Do you remember EXECUTIONER for DE?
    But people still bought W2.

    My point being it's not going to be for everyone, there are many people who disliked how the films interpreted things and didn't buy it. There's also people who like how the films did it but not how the books did it. So again no matter what you do will lead to the game splitting the fandom just like the films have.
    So you don't want CA to do it?
    People can mod it if they want.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 249
    Commisar said:

    jamreal18 said:


    So what?
    1 person likes some stuff, some person doesn't like it. So CA shall not make it?

    Do you remember EXECUTIONER for DE?
    But people still bought W2.

    My point being it's not going to be for everyone, there are many people who disliked how the films interpreted things and didn't buy it. There's also people who like how the films did it but not how the books did it. So again no matter what you do will lead to the game splitting the fandom just like the films have.
    what game would make everyone happy?


    besides this is what mods are for. if some don't like a CA LOTR they can make a mod like the movies.
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,714
    jamreal18 said:

    So you don't want CA to do it?
    People can mod it if they want.

    My point being that it's going to split the fan base either way, going off the books will run in to the same issues that alienated people with the films.

    what game would make everyone happy?

    besides this is what mods are for. if some don't like a CA LOTR they can make a mod like the movies.

    Nothing ever will. Which is why claiming to use the books is the answer is also wrong. It would still be an interpretation of it after all. So no one can say which would be the best way to go for it as we have no idea what CAs own creation would be to compare to the movies or the existing mods.
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,702
    edited March 7
    Commisar said:

    jamreal18 said:

    So you don't want CA to do it?
    People can mod it if they want.

    My point being that it's going to split the fan base either way, going off the books will run in to the same issues that alienated people with the films.
    Why are you so worried about this? So do you like books or films?

    If CA uses the book version, won't you going to buy the game anymore?
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,714
    jamreal18 said:

    Why are you so worried about this? So do you like books or films?

    If CA uses the book version, won't you going to buy the game anymore?

    I'm not likely to buy it either way as it doesn't interest me.
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,702
    edited March 8
    Commisar said:

    jamreal18 said:

    Why are you so worried about this? So do you like books or films?

    If CA uses the book version, won't you going to buy the game anymore?

    I'm not likely to buy it either way as it doesn't interest me.
    Then why are you making comments here if you're not interested?
  • bilbobaggins764bilbobaggins764 Registered Users Posts: 49
    One thing to consider, Tolkien has the largest fan base of all time in fantasy, he has a great diversity of monsters [espically first age] but that is not the only reason he is loved.
    Commisar said:

    jamreal18 said:

    So you don't want CA to do it?
    People can mod it if they want.

    My point being that it's going to split the fan base either way, going off the books will run in to the same issues that alienated people with the films.

    what game would make everyone happy?

    besides this is what mods are for. if some don't like a CA LOTR they can make a mod like the movies.

    Nothing ever will. Which is why claiming to use the books is the answer is also wrong. It would still be an interpretation of it after all. So no one can say which would be the best way to go for it as we have no idea what CAs own creation would be to compare to the movies or the existing mods.
    As any game has done that was ever made. Yet with books, they can then do mods for the movies.


    Then we agree, no perfect game is out there. But from a fan's perspective and if CA did not want to pay the high price tag, I see books only as the best option.
  • bilbobaggins764bilbobaggins764 Registered Users Posts: 49
    jamreal18 said:

    Commisar said:

    jamreal18 said:

    Why are you so worried about this? So do you like books or films?

    If CA uses the book version, won't you going to buy the game anymore?

    I'm not likely to buy it either way as it doesn't interest me.
    Then why are you making comments here if you're not interested?
    in hopes, they dont do a LOTR since he is not interested. Just as i was not for Warhammer and would rather them have done LOTR.
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,702
    edited March 8

    jamreal18 said:

    Commisar said:

    jamreal18 said:

    Why are you so worried about this? So do you like books or films?

    If CA uses the book version, won't you going to buy the game anymore?

    I'm not likely to buy it either way as it doesn't interest me.
    Then why are you making comments here if you're not interested?
    in hopes, they dont do a LOTR since he is not interested. Just as i was not for Warhammer and would rather them have done LOTR.
    It made me wonder, if LotR doesn't interest him, why bother posting comments even telling fans will be divided. Come on. What is that?

    If I don't care on something, I'll just ignore it. What is his agenda?

    **************

    Check this,
    Commisar said:

    I'm not likely to buy it either way as it doesn't interest me.

    Commisar said:

    My point being that it's going to split the fan base either way, going off the books will run in to the same issues that alienated people with the films.

    So he has no interest in the game about LotR but he cares deeply and worried for its fans.
    Post edited by jamreal18 on
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 249
    jamreal18 said:

    jamreal18 said:

    Commisar said:

    jamreal18 said:

    Why are you so worried about this? So do you like books or films?

    If CA uses the book version, won't you going to buy the game anymore?

    I'm not likely to buy it either way as it doesn't interest me.
    Then why are you making comments here if you're not interested?
    in hopes, they dont do a LOTR since he is not interested. Just as i was not for Warhammer and would rather them have done LOTR.
    It made me wonder, if LotR doesn't interest him, why bother posting comments even telling fans will be divided. Come on. What is that?

    If I don't care on something, I'll just ignore it. What is his agenda?

    **************

    Check this,
    Commisar said:

    I'm not likely to buy it either way as it doesn't interest me.

    Commisar said:

    My point being that it's going to split the fan base either way, going off the books will run in to the same issues that alienated people with the films.

    So he has no interest in the game about LotR but he cares deeply and worried for its fans.
    I think he is trying to discourage the community or CA from LOTR because he does not want it. I don't blame him. But in the end, I think CA knows what the best option for fantasy is. Of course, they might invent their own fantasy world. Would i be interested? no. Only Tolkien. There is an outside chance I would be a medieval 3 or American civil war, however.
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,702
    edited March 8

    jamreal18 said:

    jamreal18 said:

    Commisar said:

    jamreal18 said:

    Why are you so worried about this? So do you like books or films?

    If CA uses the book version, won't you going to buy the game anymore?

    I'm not likely to buy it either way as it doesn't interest me.
    Then why are you making comments here if you're not interested?
    in hopes, they dont do a LOTR since he is not interested. Just as i was not for Warhammer and would rather them have done LOTR.
    It made me wonder, if LotR doesn't interest him, why bother posting comments even telling fans will be divided. Come on. What is that?

    If I don't care on something, I'll just ignore it. What is his agenda?

    **************

    Check this,
    Commisar said:

    I'm not likely to buy it either way as it doesn't interest me.

    Commisar said:

    My point being that it's going to split the fan base either way, going off the books will run in to the same issues that alienated people with the films.

    So he has no interest in the game about LotR but he cares deeply and worried for its fans.
    I think he is trying to discourage the community or CA from LOTR because he does not want it.
    I understand that he does not like it. He can tell it on threads which talk about fantasy games in general. But intentionally posting on threads which talks about specific title he doesn't care is like trolling, isn't it?

    I thought he doesn't like it but he keeps on giving negative opinions about it. He is causing negativity. He already said himself that he will not buy it so what is he doing here?

    He can just make thread about his requested title and post his opinions and insights there.

    People like him are the cause why many threads are getting closed by moderators. He keeps on posting negative comments to the threads about the game he will not buy anyways.
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,714
    jamreal18 said:

    I'm not likely to buy it either way as it doesn't interest me.

    Then why are you making comments here if you're not interested?

    Because it's being suggested for a company and game series I like. Same way you can comment on a game suggestion you don't care for. Having only "yes men" is not a good move.

    As any game has done that was ever made. Yet with books, they can then do mods for the movies.

    Then we agree, no perfect game is out there. But from a fan's perspective and if CA did not want to pay the high price tag, I see books only as the best option.

    No it's not. Vast majority of games aren't made off of books. They end up being their own unique creations.

    But the rights to the books aren't cheap either, unless you only want them to cover very small parts of the setting. More of the lore you need to access the more they seem to charge plus increased development costs.

    I think he is trying to discourage the community or CA from LOTR because he does not want it. I don't blame him. But in the end, I think CA knows what the best option for fantasy is. Of course, they might invent their own fantasy world. Would i be interested? no. Only Tolkien. There is an outside chance I would be a medieval 3 or American civil war, however.

    Actually more of joining the discussion and pointing out some issues people have overlooked in it. I think we all share one thing in that we want CA and the TW line to do well.
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,702
    edited March 9
    @Commisar Question, you don't like LotR, right? It is nice to see people who dont like it still visiting threads about LotR even though your posts are negative.

    Just in case CA has announced, released and made forum section for LotR? Will you still going to post in that forum section?
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,714
    jamreal18 said:

    @Commisar Question, you don't like LotR, right? It is nice to see people who dont like it still visiting threads about LotR even though your posts are negative.

    Just in case CA has announced, released and made forum section for LotR? Will you still going to post in that forum section?

    Only read the Hobbit when I was a kid, trying to dig it out of the loft before starting the series (I've found LotR and Silmarillion, typical they weren't kept in the same box) and I did enjoy the films.

    Yeah I probably would still browse it a bit. I dislike the handling of Troy but view the forums often and have commented on some and most of that was oddly in support of CAs handling lol. Such as early on complaints of lack of naval battles when the period doesn't have any of note. But it's also interesting to read up on how some new mechanics work and their reception plus AI improvements.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 249
    Commisar said:

    jamreal18 said:

    I'm not likely to buy it either way as it doesn't interest me.

    Then why are you making comments here if you're not interested?
    Because it's being suggested for a company and game series I like. Same way you can comment on a game suggestion you don't care for. Having only "yes men" is not a good move.

    As any game has done that was ever made. Yet with books, they can then do mods for the movies.

    Then we agree, no perfect game is out there. But from a fan's perspective and if CA did not want to pay the high price tag, I see books only as the best option.

    No it's not. Vast majority of games aren't made off of books. They end up being their own unique creations.

    But the rights to the books aren't cheap either, unless you only want them to cover very small parts of the setting. More of the lore you need to access the more they seem to charge plus increased development costs.

    I think he is trying to discourage the community or CA from LOTR because he does not want it. I don't blame him. But in the end, I think CA knows what the best option for fantasy is. Of course, they might invent their own fantasy world. Would i be interested? no. Only Tolkien. There is an outside chance I would be a medieval 3 or American civil war, however.

    Actually more of joining the discussion and pointing out some issues people have overlooked in it. I think we all share one thing in that we want CA and the TW line to do well.

    What is the cost to the rights for the books? besides "not cheap" and what do you base that on? Many small companies have the full rights to the books, methinks CA would have no issues.

    Honestly, I don't care if CA does well, I just want them to make a game I want enough to buy like I used to. That is why i want LOTR.
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,714

    What is the cost to the rights for the books? besides "not cheap" and what do you base that on? Many small companies have the full rights to the books, methinks CA would have no issues.

    Honestly, I don't care if CA does well, I just want them to make a game I want enough to buy like I used to. That is why i want LOTR.

    Very few companies have full rights, it seems even big companies don't have full rights and they have spent millions to get the rights to it, latest as has been posted was the Amazon MMO. Amazon of course has plenty of money to risk and owns the servers so cuts overheads.

    So you do care that they do well, unless you want a game that is a flop.
  • bilbobaggins764bilbobaggins764 Registered Users Posts: 49
    edited March 10
    Commisar said:

    What is the cost to the rights for the books? besides "not cheap" and what do you base that on? Many small companies have the full rights to the books, methinks CA would have no issues.

    Honestly, I don't care if CA does well, I just want them to make a game I want enough to buy like I used to. That is why i want LOTR.

    Very few companies have full rights, it seems even big companies don't have full rights and they have spent millions to get the rights to it, latest as has been posted was the Amazon MMO. Amazon of course has plenty of money to risk and owns the servers so cuts overheads.

    So you do care that they do well, unless you want a game that is a flop.
    They have rights to use LOTR and dipict it how they wish using the material from the books to create a game. That is the only rights you need and the rights multiple small gaming companies have received.


    I only care for TW so far as they make games i like, otherwise no i dont care. If they never make a game I would play then I have no interest in the company. I have not played a game since Rome 2 for this reason. Rome 2 was a big disappointment and unless they do a game like a LOTR, I could care less.
  • cbferris1cbferris1 Registered Users Posts: 37
    Great idea for a warhammer mod, terrible waste of time otherwise. Warhammer is transparently a campy version of Lotr. No need to make a game that’s basically already been made but with a different plot
  • Man2008kindMan2008kind Bucharest, RomaniaRegistered Users Posts: 1,450
    cbferris1 said:

    Great idea for a warhammer mod,

    The mods can't feature any 3rd party IP.
    cbferris1 said:

    terrible waste of time otherwise. Warhammer is transparently a campy version of Lotr. No need to make a game that’s basically already been made but with a different plot

    Read the lore, then come back. What you just said proves you've no idea of what you're talking about. They're completley different settings and a LotR Total War is the best thing that could happen to Total War. What IS a waste of time are the historical titles.
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