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WD article: The Oldest of Enemies

Red_Dox#2328Red_Dox#2328 Junior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 6,450
edited December 2021 in General Discussion

Source: White Dwarf#236 (UK)

Vampire Count armybook 6th

Notable von Carstein characters
Mannfred von Carstein had rules in 5th+ edition and is already featured in TWW.

Gotrek & Felix story about ressurrecting him: https://imgur.com/a/BLvIxVl

Vlad & Isabella had rules in 5th+ edition and are already covered in TWW.


Konrad had his first rules afaik in 7th edition.

He was always a Hero choice, of course the same did not stop Isabella from becoming a TWW LL. Lore wise Konrad was rather weak with his magical abilities but a good melee fighter, which is why his armies relied more on a increased number of Necromancers. Since he brings imo nothing new to the table that really helps Vampire Counts advance, and while we have already three von Carsteins, imo CA should ignore his sorry ass and rather focus on LLs for the other Bloodlines.

That are the main suspects, everyone knows about probably already in abundance. We have a lot of minor lore blurbs mentioning others but I would say the next interesting ones would be
  • Count Noctilus, who already made it into the Vampire Coast race.
  • Ulrika Magdova, from the "Gotrek & Felix" novels. She was turned Undead by Adolphus Krieger from the von Carstein Bloodline. Since Aranessa was thrown to the Undead in the Vampire Coast, it might be possible that Ulrika could be a future Kislev LL. Not a happy outlook to have a Vampire in a mortal race, but here people vary on their opinions.
  • Helmar von Carstein, who had several Warhammer Monthly appearances. But same as with Konrad, imo we have enough of those Bloodline and don't really need another LL who might bring nothing really new to the table while we have four ignored Bloodlines to do better.

Since the von Carsteins carved out a small "living" Empire to rule over, they had some mortal troops in their services through the time. In 6th edition where all Bloodlines had special armylists, the von Carsteins had mortal troops for their aid.

And with the VC rework in game#2 which added the bloodline system, we got also some mortals here.
It could be argued, this could be fleshed out further, even if Vlad later relied more on Undead then mortals.
On a similar note, in 6th with "Storm of Chaos", Mannfred had a special Sylvanian list

with Undead militia to replace the "generic" Skeletons & Zombies.
We could make a point here, that the living Sylvanians might be more eager to serve Vlad, who was apparently a good leader for them, while Mannfred rather sticked to Undead from the start. CA *could* use this to rework both and make them more distinct from each other. Or we can just ignore it and find a common ground special rule for the whole Bloodline, as it currently is with some mortals around, which might be more distinctive *if* future updates/reworks/DLCs might do somethimg for the other Bloodlines.

Sidenotes & Bonus stuff

Similar topics
Born Unto Damnation

Blood Dragons




Von Carstein
Olde Weirde's Incunabulum
Of Ancient Blood

------Red Dox
Post edited by Red_Dox#2328 on


  • SnoopacSnoopac Registered Users Posts: 427
  • Nikolabrac#5277Nikolabrac#5277 Registered Users Posts: 711
    Why can we have some of those monstrus vampires instead of bald guys 1 and 2 and two old men
  • Red_Dox#2328Red_Dox#2328 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,450

    Why can we have some of those monstrus vampires instead of bald guys 1 and 2 and two old men

    Same old story.
    • Mannfred was the freshly ressurrected and alive heir who took over the reign of Sylvania around 2505 IC. So fitting around the timeline where Karl Franz gets crowned (2502) and Louen became King a bit earlier. TWW wise Mannfred starting in Drakenhof and then needing to unite first Sylvania before he starts his dreams of conquering the world is truly loreful.
    • Kemmler as second core LL was a solid choice. he was alive, he is the most powerful and well recognized Necromancer and he did play a bit different to Mannfred. While initially a bit bland he got spiced up with his old pal Krell later and shoved to a better starting position. In todays game state, he still could use a new overhaul. For example making Krell a real hero with skilltree at his side instead of a summon. And his faction *could* get some new/specific units from his "Army of the Cairns list
      But I think we can agree that new units or special reskins might be a bit much for an FLC update here. Who knows, maybe CA might surprise us. In the meantime, mods might be the way to go if wanting to see Kemmler a bit more fleshed out https://www.patreon.com/posts/25722951
    • Vlad always was very popular, even if Mannfred probably was the smarter and more ambitious vampire. So CA did bring up Vlad, since Vlad was also around in most armybooks and especially the 8th. Timeline wise he should be dead, but Undead are a bit conundrum inthat regards and GW itself did dig up Vlad and Isabella for "The (horrible) Endtimes also :-/ I did not like Vlad getting LL status back then, I still am not happy with him around these days. Since he imo takes the spotlight away from Mannfred who should be the main guy in Sylvania.
    • Then we got Isabella as FLC LL with "Make War not Love". I mean it was CAs early time and yeah, for valentiens day the love between Vlad & Isabella did make a solid point here. But Isabella as LL was imo more toruble then expected. if we ignore that a hero became a LL, the main problem right then was that we got the third von Carstein. I mean if they desperatly wanted a female Vampire, would it have killed anyone to do Neferata? Isabella also made a way better LL start then Vlad. Because you could basically recruit Vlad in her second turn, and still have Isabella with her imba campaign start where you could have a completely unified Sylvania in under ten turns. Since nobody could stop her+some vampire heroes and Vlad with his reinforcements. I would assume in todays enviroment, Isabella would have been a legendary hero for Vlad. But back then, CA was not that far ahead.
    • Which leaves us with Ghorst. He was picked because the whole DLC was themed around the "Sigmars Blood" campaign. And since Mannfred already existed, Ghorst as Necromancer was the common sense choice for an LL to be the magical focus of an Undead army. Today, where we have Cylostra as a Banshee doing that job, we could ask in hindsight why not Whispering Nell back then? But it was a different time for CA back then. Still a shame, becasue while Ghorst would make a good legendary hero for Mannfred, I am still unhappy with him "stealing" a Vampire Count LL spot. If a 2nd Necromancer had to be included in the shadow of Kemmler, I would have prefered Dieter Helsnicht. Or instead of a 2nd Necromancer, just pick another Vampire form a different Bloodline :( But, it is what it is and CA will most likely not switch the content of a DLC. So Ghorst sticks around.
    At least we know that CA has evolved and is these days way bolder with implementing "older" characters outside the 8th edition armybook. And if we look to the Skaven, if tehy want they can properly flesh out the subfactions of a race. The Vampire Count future can still include a LL for each bloodline and some crispy gameplay mechanics to let them work differently from the von Carsteins. Time will tell how far CA will go with probably at least one future crossover DLC and maybe X FLC LLs. I still will barf bones when Konrad shows up next instead of literally any other bloodline vampire -.-

    -----Red Dox
  • OmegaJak#7170OmegaJak#7170 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 310
    Cool, but honestly I'm hoping for some Vampire Counts from other bloodlines at some point. The Von Carsteins are awesome, but I'd genuinely enjoy a bit of a change, Zacharias, Neferata, (playable) Red Duke etc.
  • Wargol5Wargol5 Registered Users Posts: 1,441
    Mannfred had much more charisma with hair and "normal" clothes...
  • Red_Dox#2328Red_Dox#2328 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,450
    Wargol5 said:

    Mannfred had much more charisma with hair and "normal" clothes...

    Which only shows: Getting old and bald, makes you just more ruthless.

    -----Red Dox
  • MiniaAr#5798MiniaAr#5798 Registered Users Posts: 1,788
    Ghorst is indeed a Ghoritch equivalent. He should have been a LH for Mannfred.
    Isabella works as a LL, but again, if the point was to show a love story, why have them as LLs who separates after a few turn anyway? Isabella as LH giving buffs if she's in Vlad's army would have been so much better.

    This would open two slots for VCounts LLs from different bloodlines:
    - Grim and the Grave with Volkmar vs Zacharias would have worked really well.
    - I hope Neferata is coming at some point. I would prefer her as a VCount LL and not a Legion of Undead one (if indeed Nagash comes as a race and not a super-faction Lord).
    - I'm surprised we don't have a Strigoi LL in the March of Madness, for a really different start position for Vcounts (fighting Greenskins instead of Humans). It seems this has a good FLC potential, with maybe a special kind of ghouls and a couple of living Strigany units. Would be smaller in size than Drycha.
    - Finally, I hope for playable Red Duke at some point as well.

    This would give the Vcounts all their bloodlines (as well as Mr. Necromancer) playable. As we did get all Skavens clans, as we will get all Chaos Gods, I hope at the end of the trilogy, we get all bloodlines as well.
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