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Dark Elves in WH3 - Seaborne Invaders

TheWattmanTheWattman Junior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 1,434
The addition of Rakarth ahead of expectations are pushing the (realistic) expectations for the last WH2 DLC towards a LM vs BM, for the purposes of updating the Beastmen in time for WH3. This means that the Lizardmen would be the first of the core races of WH2 to break the 6-lords barrier and end up with 7. Lets say for the moment that the ultimate limit of any race in the setting by the end of WH3 would be around 8, a number which is needed to properly accomedate the Vampire Counts, Empire and most likely the Greenskins. If this is the case, then this opens the door for a couple of DLC/FLC additions further down the road for the WH2 core races. Thusly, I would like to discuss the loreful way of implementing the WH2 races into WH3 and I'd like to dedicate this thread to the Dark Elves.


Dark Elves in WH3:
1. Straight off the bat, the chances may appear a bit slim. The Dark Elves have no immediate strongholds in the assumed WH3-playable area, but it does feel influence from the Druchii. The closest thing to it would be a Cathayan town known to the Druchii as Khairith Irlean, which was a port that a bunch of Druchii (Witch Elves to be precise), operating from a Black Ark, burned and brutalized so thoroughly that the Cathayans didn't even attempt to rebuild. And so, we can glanse one of the two ways that the Dark Elves could be represented in WH3: as an invasion force centered on a port somewhere along the coastline of Cathay. Its certainly a rivalry that could be promoted if the Dark Elves do deserve another LP and also that its not against the Beastmen now. Otherwise its just as easy to make it an FLC and let whatever lord CA sees fit to put in figure out something from there.

2. The 2nd lore-fitting option for the Dark Elves would be to have them operate solely out of a self-sustaining Black Ark, to truely highlight their raiding characteristics. And here we have a very lore-friendly cause to pursue. Duriath Helbane is the commander of the Black Ark Temple of Spite and he has been all around the East, fighting stuff in the Southlands, Dragon Isles and Ind. But now he is planning something bigger: an invasion of the High Elf colonies on the Lost Isles of Elithis. However, keeping with the core-race rule for now, then this addition would not be an LP, but rather an FLC adrift in the southern oceans. If the core-race rule is dropped though, then another DE vs HE LP could be a very real possibility.

Possible Lords:

--------------Duriath Helbane--------------------Tullaris Dreadbringer-----------------Kouran Darkhand-----------


Duriath Helbane: As mentioned above, Duriath Helbane has a legitimate lore claim on the WH3 map, but he is also the more obscure and non-relevant of remaining Dark Elf characters (his lore comes from a small section of 7th edition). Yet still, he also represents the one Dark Elf major city that has yet to have been represented in the roster: Clar Karond.That city is the domain of the Helbanes and while it might not be available to Duriath in WH3, it will be on the big Mortal Empires. So perhaps a confederation mechanic like Rakarth's could be implemented for ME only? And also, as a Black Ark commander, would it not be logical to include proper Black Ark Fleetmasters and Reavers with him?

Tullaris Dreadbringer: Tullaris is the most fitting character with what remains in the general DE roster, like Statues of Khaine and Draich Masters, but he is also the one that has the least claim on the WH3 area. He is the Chosen of Khaine, so it might still make sense to have him battle some other chosen of some other god. Or perhaps, since the burners of Khairith Irlean were Witch Elves, then perhaps it should be interpreted as a Khainite expedition? In this way, Tullaris would be the leader of the Dark Elves in an LP, if they deserve another, vs an appropriate Cathayan, which is perhaps the most appropriate setup assuming the core-race rule for DLC still applies in WH3.

Kouran Darkhand: Kouran comes in the middle of Duriath and Tullaris in terms of lore-claims. He is mentioned in brief to having fought all over the world, including eastern places like Ind. However, his main placement is at Malekith's side in Naggarond. His inclusion could be motivated that Malekith has decided to take control of Duriath's expedition plans and launch an invasion himself and so sends Kouran in his name. Kouran also benefits from being part of the 8th edition book rather than 7th. It really depends if we want another Admiral alongside Lokhir or if we want a minion of the King, most likely another Anti-large alongside Rakarth.

What do you think guys? Do the Dark Elves deserve an LP? Should that come in WH3 and if not, how else should they be implemented?
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Comments

  • manuelpsmanuelps Registered Users Posts: 2,812
    Statue of Khaine is a lore blurb so CA may decide to never include it and draich masters is not a true unit either, just Executioners champions. Same move could be done with Tower masters for Kouran or Reavers for Duriath. Still Tullaris or Kouran seem a safest bet than Duriath or any other foot note character.
  • MaelasMaelas Registered Users Posts: 5,180
    I'm all for having a Helbane starting in Elithis, threatening Cathay and having a quest for confederating Clar Karond. But I'd rather have the cooler Helbane, Anethra
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 8,607
    DE don't really need any justification to be on the Game 3 map, we know they like to to raze the coast of the Far East.

    Lokhir is already the corsair LL of the DE, if anything he should be the one starting near Ind.

    Kouran is to Malekith what Ludwig is to Karl Franz, their personal bodyguards and most trusted advisors, so no, he is LH material for Malekith, sending him across the world, where he cannot protect Malekith, defeats his entire purpose about been a body guard.

    Tullaris on the other hand, is crazy and he only cares for the voices in his head, so if they say that he should go to Cathay he will go, he doesn't need a lot of convincing, but as has been said in other places, he would be better starting in Ulthuan in charge of the Scourge of Khaine faction, so maybe as a FLC LL exclusive to the ME like Drycha?

    Then, there is Mengil Manhide, the better choice in my opinion from a gameplay, location and thematic perspective:

    He is a mercenary, so he can start in any place, but he is also tied to Clar Karond as he is the son of a Lord of that city, so he could have a confederation mission like Lokhir and Rakarth have with Karond Kar, then, he is a ranged LL, which the DE currently lack, he would also be focused on shades, which no LL currently focuses on, he would bring a unique unit with him, his Manflayers, and he also has clear mercenary mechanics.

    So TLDR, Tullaris and Mengil LL in game 3, Kouran as a LH for Malekith, Duriath is redundant since we have Lokhir.

    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • LordTorquemadoLordTorquemado Registered Users Posts: 2,042
    Kouran Darkhand.
    Tullaris Dreadbringer.


    Sure, Draich Masters weren’t a unit in TT, but certainly they existed in lore, just like Wood Elves got Wardancer champions or the same Druchii got the champion version of Nauglir Knights. And yes, Statues of Khaine were barely mentioned in the codex, but the Hippogryph Knights are exactly the same, so that is a very poor argument to not include them, Druchii haters.

    Hag Queens, Disciples of Khaine, Draich Masters, Lords of Oblivion, The Endless... the possibilities are there. The Asur got End Times units in their last DLC, I don’t see why the Druchii shouldn’t have their End Times units like the Lords of Oblivion.
  • Ben1990Ben1990 Registered Users Posts: 1,814
    manpersal said:

    Draich masters is not a true unit either, just Executioners champions.

    Didn't stop Alith Anar from turning the Shadow Stalkers (champion version for Shadow Warriors) into a fullblown unit.
  • LordTorquemadoLordTorquemado Registered Users Posts: 2,042

    DE don't really need any justification to be on the Game 3 map, we know they like to to raze the coast of the Far East.

    Lokhir is already the corsair LL of the DE, if anything he should be the one starting near Ind.

    Kouran is to Malekith what Ludwig is to Karl Franz, their personal bodyguards and most trusted advisors, so no, he is LH material for Malekith, sending him across the world, where he cannot protect Malekith, defeats his entire purpose about been a body guard.

    Tullaris on the other hand, is crazy and he only cares for the voices in his head, so if they say that he should go to Cathay he will go, he doesn't need a lot of convincing, but as has been said in other places, he would be better starting in Ulthuan in charge of the Scourge of Khaine faction, so maybe as a FLC LL exclusive to the ME like Drycha?

    Then, there is Mengil Manhide, the better choice in my opinion from a gameplay, location and thematic perspective:

    He is a mercenary, so he can start in any place, but he is also tied to Clar Karond as he is the son of a Lord of that city, so he could have a confederation mission like Lokhir and Rakarth have with Karond Kar, then, he is a ranged LL, which the DE currently lack, he would also be focused on shades, which no LL currently focuses on, he would bring a unique unit with him, his Manflayers, and he also has clear mercenary mechanics.

    So TLDR, Tullaris and Mengil LL in game 3, Kouran as a LH for Malekith, Duriath is redundant since we have Lokhir.

    HAHAHAHAHHA.

    This is so wrong in every way that you made me laugh hard, I will admit it.

    1. Kouran is not the Ludwig equivalent of the Druchii. Should you have interested a minimum in DE lore, you would know that Kouran is more than Malekith’s bodyguard. He is the right hand of the Witch King, the favored general of Malekith and the one in charge of the agents and spies of Naggaroth. He was the only able to keep united the Land of Chill, deed that even Morathi wasn’t able to do without Kouran. Kouran is to the Dark Elves what both Helborg and Schwarzhelm are to the Empire.

    2. Gameplay and thematic wise, he is the best option only in your head. The DE aren’t a faction prone to use or be mercenaries precisely. A mercenary mechanic is an insult for their lore and coherence. Now compare that anticlimactic and lorebreaking mechanic with Avatar of Khaine for Tullaris or defense/special mission for Kouran, with their respective unique units for each roster.

    3. He is the son of a minor lord of Clar Karond. It’s not like he is the son of the drachau of Hag Graef, or the most important fleetmaster or beastmaster of Naggaroth. This guy achieves what was impossible: to make Lokhir and Rakarth seem important.

    4. Mengil is already represented in the game as the best way he could be: a rogue lord.

    In definitive, the only characters that DE need to be perfectly represented are Kouran, Tullaris and Shadowblade, this one as LH, of course.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 8,607

    DE don't really need any justification to be on the Game 3 map, we know they like to to raze the coast of the Far East.

    Lokhir is already the corsair LL of the DE, if anything he should be the one starting near Ind.

    Kouran is to Malekith what Ludwig is to Karl Franz, their personal bodyguards and most trusted advisors, so no, he is LH material for Malekith, sending him across the world, where he cannot protect Malekith, defeats his entire purpose about been a body guard.

    Tullaris on the other hand, is crazy and he only cares for the voices in his head, so if they say that he should go to Cathay he will go, he doesn't need a lot of convincing, but as has been said in other places, he would be better starting in Ulthuan in charge of the Scourge of Khaine faction, so maybe as a FLC LL exclusive to the ME like Drycha?

    Then, there is Mengil Manhide, the better choice in my opinion from a gameplay, location and thematic perspective:

    He is a mercenary, so he can start in any place, but he is also tied to Clar Karond as he is the son of a Lord of that city, so he could have a confederation mission like Lokhir and Rakarth have with Karond Kar, then, he is a ranged LL, which the DE currently lack, he would also be focused on shades, which no LL currently focuses on, he would bring a unique unit with him, his Manflayers, and he also has clear mercenary mechanics.

    So TLDR, Tullaris and Mengil LL in game 3, Kouran as a LH for Malekith, Duriath is redundant since we have Lokhir.

    HAHAHAHAHHA.

    This is so wrong in every way that you made me laugh hard, I will admit it.

    1. Kouran is not the Ludwig equivalent of the Druchii. Should you have interested a minimum in DE lore, you would know that Kouran is more than Malekith’s bodyguard. He is the right hand of the Witch King, the favored general of Malekith and the one in charge of the agents and spies of Naggaroth. He was the only able to keep united the Land of Chill, deed that even Morathi wasn’t able to do without Kouran. Kouran is to the Dark Elves what both Helborg and Schwarzhelm are to the Empire.

    2. Gameplay and thematic wise, he is the best option only in your head. The DE aren’t a faction prone to use or be mercenaries precisely. A mercenary mechanic is an insult for their lore and coherence. Now compare that anticlimactic and lorebreaking mechanic with Avatar of Khaine for Tullaris or defense/special mission for Kouran, with their respective unique units for each roster.

    3. He is the son of a minor lord of Clar Karond. It’s not like he is the son of the drachau of Hag Graef, or the most important fleetmaster or beastmaster of Naggaroth. This guy achieves what was impossible: to make Lokhir and Rakarth seem important.

    4. Mengil is already represented in the game as the best way he could be: a rogue lord.

    In definitive, the only characters that DE need to be perfectly represented are Kouran, Tullaris and Shadowblade, this one as LH, of course.
    It's not like what you say will change my mind, it's your personal opinion, and I have mine, but if I were you I would keep the personal attacks at a minimum, since you are already in jail for a reason.

    And relax, you already ranted about how Lokhir and Rakarth are the worst thing the DE have suffered in this game in other places, so no need to do it again here.
    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • LordTorquemadoLordTorquemado Registered Users Posts: 2,042

    DE don't really need any justification to be on the Game 3 map, we know they like to to raze the coast of the Far East.

    Lokhir is already the corsair LL of the DE, if anything he should be the one starting near Ind.

    Kouran is to Malekith what Ludwig is to Karl Franz, their personal bodyguards and most trusted advisors, so no, he is LH material for Malekith, sending him across the world, where he cannot protect Malekith, defeats his entire purpose about been a body guard.

    Tullaris on the other hand, is crazy and he only cares for the voices in his head, so if they say that he should go to Cathay he will go, he doesn't need a lot of convincing, but as has been said in other places, he would be better starting in Ulthuan in charge of the Scourge of Khaine faction, so maybe as a FLC LL exclusive to the ME like Drycha?

    Then, there is Mengil Manhide, the better choice in my opinion from a gameplay, location and thematic perspective:

    He is a mercenary, so he can start in any place, but he is also tied to Clar Karond as he is the son of a Lord of that city, so he could have a confederation mission like Lokhir and Rakarth have with Karond Kar, then, he is a ranged LL, which the DE currently lack, he would also be focused on shades, which no LL currently focuses on, he would bring a unique unit with him, his Manflayers, and he also has clear mercenary mechanics.

    So TLDR, Tullaris and Mengil LL in game 3, Kouran as a LH for Malekith, Duriath is redundant since we have Lokhir.

    HAHAHAHAHHA.

    This is so wrong in every way that you made me laugh hard, I will admit it.

    1. Kouran is not the Ludwig equivalent of the Druchii. Should you have interested a minimum in DE lore, you would know that Kouran is more than Malekith’s bodyguard. He is the right hand of the Witch King, the favored general of Malekith and the one in charge of the agents and spies of Naggaroth. He was the only able to keep united the Land of Chill, deed that even Morathi wasn’t able to do without Kouran. Kouran is to the Dark Elves what both Helborg and Schwarzhelm are to the Empire.

    2. Gameplay and thematic wise, he is the best option only in your head. The DE aren’t a faction prone to use or be mercenaries precisely. A mercenary mechanic is an insult for their lore and coherence. Now compare that anticlimactic and lorebreaking mechanic with Avatar of Khaine for Tullaris or defense/special mission for Kouran, with their respective unique units for each roster.

    3. He is the son of a minor lord of Clar Karond. It’s not like he is the son of the drachau of Hag Graef, or the most important fleetmaster or beastmaster of Naggaroth. This guy achieves what was impossible: to make Lokhir and Rakarth seem important.

    4. Mengil is already represented in the game as the best way he could be: a rogue lord.

    In definitive, the only characters that DE need to be perfectly represented are Kouran, Tullaris and Shadowblade, this one as LH, of course.
    It's not like what you say will change my mind, it's your personal opinion, and I have mine, but if I were you I would keep the personal attacks at a minimum, since you are already in jail for a reason.

    And relax, you already ranted about how Lokhir and Rakarth are the worst thing the DE have suffered in this game in other places, so no need to do it again here.
    Lokhir and Rakarth are the worst thing that DE have suffered for now, but only if the time eliminates every trace of hope for Kouran and Tullaris. If they come, then Lokhir and Rakarth will be perfect additions for the game.

    And don’t worry, that’s not a personal attack. It’s just as simple as not every opinion is equal, as your opinion demonstrates with its lack of knowledge or complete disrespect for the lore.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 8,607

    DE don't really need any justification to be on the Game 3 map, we know they like to to raze the coast of the Far East.

    Lokhir is already the corsair LL of the DE, if anything he should be the one starting near Ind.

    Kouran is to Malekith what Ludwig is to Karl Franz, their personal bodyguards and most trusted advisors, so no, he is LH material for Malekith, sending him across the world, where he cannot protect Malekith, defeats his entire purpose about been a body guard.

    Tullaris on the other hand, is crazy and he only cares for the voices in his head, so if they say that he should go to Cathay he will go, he doesn't need a lot of convincing, but as has been said in other places, he would be better starting in Ulthuan in charge of the Scourge of Khaine faction, so maybe as a FLC LL exclusive to the ME like Drycha?

    Then, there is Mengil Manhide, the better choice in my opinion from a gameplay, location and thematic perspective:

    He is a mercenary, so he can start in any place, but he is also tied to Clar Karond as he is the son of a Lord of that city, so he could have a confederation mission like Lokhir and Rakarth have with Karond Kar, then, he is a ranged LL, which the DE currently lack, he would also be focused on shades, which no LL currently focuses on, he would bring a unique unit with him, his Manflayers, and he also has clear mercenary mechanics.

    So TLDR, Tullaris and Mengil LL in game 3, Kouran as a LH for Malekith, Duriath is redundant since we have Lokhir.

    HAHAHAHAHHA.

    This is so wrong in every way that you made me laugh hard, I will admit it.

    1. Kouran is not the Ludwig equivalent of the Druchii. Should you have interested a minimum in DE lore, you would know that Kouran is more than Malekith’s bodyguard. He is the right hand of the Witch King, the favored general of Malekith and the one in charge of the agents and spies of Naggaroth. He was the only able to keep united the Land of Chill, deed that even Morathi wasn’t able to do without Kouran. Kouran is to the Dark Elves what both Helborg and Schwarzhelm are to the Empire.

    2. Gameplay and thematic wise, he is the best option only in your head. The DE aren’t a faction prone to use or be mercenaries precisely. A mercenary mechanic is an insult for their lore and coherence. Now compare that anticlimactic and lorebreaking mechanic with Avatar of Khaine for Tullaris or defense/special mission for Kouran, with their respective unique units for each roster.

    3. He is the son of a minor lord of Clar Karond. It’s not like he is the son of the drachau of Hag Graef, or the most important fleetmaster or beastmaster of Naggaroth. This guy achieves what was impossible: to make Lokhir and Rakarth seem important.

    4. Mengil is already represented in the game as the best way he could be: a rogue lord.

    In definitive, the only characters that DE need to be perfectly represented are Kouran, Tullaris and Shadowblade, this one as LH, of course.
    It's not like what you say will change my mind, it's your personal opinion, and I have mine, but if I were you I would keep the personal attacks at a minimum, since you are already in jail for a reason.

    And relax, you already ranted about how Lokhir and Rakarth are the worst thing the DE have suffered in this game in other places, so no need to do it again here.
    Lokhir and Rakarth are the worst thing that DE have suffered for now, but only if the time eliminates every trace of hope for Kouran and Tullaris. If they come, then Lokhir and Rakarth will be perfect additions for the game.

    And don’t worry, that’s not a personal attack. It’s just as simple as not every opinion is equal, as your opinion demonstrates with its lack of knowledge or complete disrespect for the lore.
    So, now, different opinions that yours, are laveled as "lack of knowledge or complete disrespect for the lore", gotcha, tell that to mods later dude.
    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • LordTorquemadoLordTorquemado Registered Users Posts: 2,042

    DE don't really need any justification to be on the Game 3 map, we know they like to to raze the coast of the Far East.

    Lokhir is already the corsair LL of the DE, if anything he should be the one starting near Ind.

    Kouran is to Malekith what Ludwig is to Karl Franz, their personal bodyguards and most trusted advisors, so no, he is LH material for Malekith, sending him across the world, where he cannot protect Malekith, defeats his entire purpose about been a body guard.

    Tullaris on the other hand, is crazy and he only cares for the voices in his head, so if they say that he should go to Cathay he will go, he doesn't need a lot of convincing, but as has been said in other places, he would be better starting in Ulthuan in charge of the Scourge of Khaine faction, so maybe as a FLC LL exclusive to the ME like Drycha?

    Then, there is Mengil Manhide, the better choice in my opinion from a gameplay, location and thematic perspective:

    He is a mercenary, so he can start in any place, but he is also tied to Clar Karond as he is the son of a Lord of that city, so he could have a confederation mission like Lokhir and Rakarth have with Karond Kar, then, he is a ranged LL, which the DE currently lack, he would also be focused on shades, which no LL currently focuses on, he would bring a unique unit with him, his Manflayers, and he also has clear mercenary mechanics.

    So TLDR, Tullaris and Mengil LL in game 3, Kouran as a LH for Malekith, Duriath is redundant since we have Lokhir.

    HAHAHAHAHHA.

    This is so wrong in every way that you made me laugh hard, I will admit it.

    1. Kouran is not the Ludwig equivalent of the Druchii. Should you have interested a minimum in DE lore, you would know that Kouran is more than Malekith’s bodyguard. He is the right hand of the Witch King, the favored general of Malekith and the one in charge of the agents and spies of Naggaroth. He was the only able to keep united the Land of Chill, deed that even Morathi wasn’t able to do without Kouran. Kouran is to the Dark Elves what both Helborg and Schwarzhelm are to the Empire.

    2. Gameplay and thematic wise, he is the best option only in your head. The DE aren’t a faction prone to use or be mercenaries precisely. A mercenary mechanic is an insult for their lore and coherence. Now compare that anticlimactic and lorebreaking mechanic with Avatar of Khaine for Tullaris or defense/special mission for Kouran, with their respective unique units for each roster.

    3. He is the son of a minor lord of Clar Karond. It’s not like he is the son of the drachau of Hag Graef, or the most important fleetmaster or beastmaster of Naggaroth. This guy achieves what was impossible: to make Lokhir and Rakarth seem important.

    4. Mengil is already represented in the game as the best way he could be: a rogue lord.

    In definitive, the only characters that DE need to be perfectly represented are Kouran, Tullaris and Shadowblade, this one as LH, of course.
    It's not like what you say will change my mind, it's your personal opinion, and I have mine, but if I were you I would keep the personal attacks at a minimum, since you are already in jail for a reason.

    And relax, you already ranted about how Lokhir and Rakarth are the worst thing the DE have suffered in this game in other places, so no need to do it again here.
    Lokhir and Rakarth are the worst thing that DE have suffered for now, but only if the time eliminates every trace of hope for Kouran and Tullaris. If they come, then Lokhir and Rakarth will be perfect additions for the game.

    And don’t worry, that’s not a personal attack. It’s just as simple as not every opinion is equal, as your opinion demonstrates with its lack of knowledge or complete disrespect for the lore.
    So, now, different opinions that yours, are laveled as "lack of knowledge or complete disrespect for the lore", gotcha, tell that to mods later dude.
    No. But obviously, when someone compares Mengil to Rakarth or Lokhir (I won’t even say Kouran and Tullaris) from a lore perspective, he is demonstrating “lack of knowledge”. The same as saying Kouran is only a bodyguard. It shows a lack of knowledge that demonstrates little to zero interest in his lore, which can be considered by others as a “complete disrespect for the lore”. Which is fine, but then don’t use the lore argument, say that you don’t care about the lore and that you think Mengil is a better idea regardless of the rest, as many others have done with other characters.

    And if you use this argument, don’t be surprised by the fact that one guy will tell you that you’re misleading information. You can tell that the Sun is purple and that this is your opinion, but making your opinion won’t make it true. And by the way, from your perspective when someone says something that’s not true to another person, the other one shouldn’t response or contradict out of fear of being disrespectful, which is completely absurd.

    You have two options in this regard: read the lore before writing about it or pase on lore and don’t talk about it.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 8,607

    DE don't really need any justification to be on the Game 3 map, we know they like to to raze the coast of the Far East.

    Lokhir is already the corsair LL of the DE, if anything he should be the one starting near Ind.

    Kouran is to Malekith what Ludwig is to Karl Franz, their personal bodyguards and most trusted advisors, so no, he is LH material for Malekith, sending him across the world, where he cannot protect Malekith, defeats his entire purpose about been a body guard.

    Tullaris on the other hand, is crazy and he only cares for the voices in his head, so if they say that he should go to Cathay he will go, he doesn't need a lot of convincing, but as has been said in other places, he would be better starting in Ulthuan in charge of the Scourge of Khaine faction, so maybe as a FLC LL exclusive to the ME like Drycha?

    Then, there is Mengil Manhide, the better choice in my opinion from a gameplay, location and thematic perspective:

    He is a mercenary, so he can start in any place, but he is also tied to Clar Karond as he is the son of a Lord of that city, so he could have a confederation mission like Lokhir and Rakarth have with Karond Kar, then, he is a ranged LL, which the DE currently lack, he would also be focused on shades, which no LL currently focuses on, he would bring a unique unit with him, his Manflayers, and he also has clear mercenary mechanics.

    So TLDR, Tullaris and Mengil LL in game 3, Kouran as a LH for Malekith, Duriath is redundant since we have Lokhir.

    HAHAHAHAHHA.

    This is so wrong in every way that you made me laugh hard, I will admit it.

    1. Kouran is not the Ludwig equivalent of the Druchii. Should you have interested a minimum in DE lore, you would know that Kouran is more than Malekith’s bodyguard. He is the right hand of the Witch King, the favored general of Malekith and the one in charge of the agents and spies of Naggaroth. He was the only able to keep united the Land of Chill, deed that even Morathi wasn’t able to do without Kouran. Kouran is to the Dark Elves what both Helborg and Schwarzhelm are to the Empire.

    2. Gameplay and thematic wise, he is the best option only in your head. The DE aren’t a faction prone to use or be mercenaries precisely. A mercenary mechanic is an insult for their lore and coherence. Now compare that anticlimactic and lorebreaking mechanic with Avatar of Khaine for Tullaris or defense/special mission for Kouran, with their respective unique units for each roster.

    3. He is the son of a minor lord of Clar Karond. It’s not like he is the son of the drachau of Hag Graef, or the most important fleetmaster or beastmaster of Naggaroth. This guy achieves what was impossible: to make Lokhir and Rakarth seem important.

    4. Mengil is already represented in the game as the best way he could be: a rogue lord.

    In definitive, the only characters that DE need to be perfectly represented are Kouran, Tullaris and Shadowblade, this one as LH, of course.
    It's not like what you say will change my mind, it's your personal opinion, and I have mine, but if I were you I would keep the personal attacks at a minimum, since you are already in jail for a reason.

    And relax, you already ranted about how Lokhir and Rakarth are the worst thing the DE have suffered in this game in other places, so no need to do it again here.
    Lokhir and Rakarth are the worst thing that DE have suffered for now, but only if the time eliminates every trace of hope for Kouran and Tullaris. If they come, then Lokhir and Rakarth will be perfect additions for the game.

    And don’t worry, that’s not a personal attack. It’s just as simple as not every opinion is equal, as your opinion demonstrates with its lack of knowledge or complete disrespect for the lore.
    So, now, different opinions that yours, are laveled as "lack of knowledge or complete disrespect for the lore", gotcha, tell that to mods later dude.
    No. But obviously, when someone compares Mengil to Rakarth or Lokhir (I won’t even say Kouran and Tullaris) from a lore perspective, he is demonstrating “lack of knowledge”. The same as saying Kouran is only a bodyguard. It shows a lack of knowledge that demonstrates little to zero interest in his lore, which can be considered by others as a “complete disrespect for the lore”. Which is fine, but then don’t use the lore argument, say that you don’t care about the lore and that you think Mengil is a better idea regardless of the rest, as many others have done with other characters.

    And if you use this argument, don’t be surprised by the fact that one guy will tell you that you’re misleading information. You can tell that the Sun is purple and that this is your opinion, but making your opinion won’t make it true. And by the way, from your perspective when someone says something that’s not true to another person, the other one shouldn’t response or contradict out of fear of being disrespectful, which is completely absurd.

    You have two options in this regard: read the lore before writing about it or pase on lore and don’t talk about it.
    I never compared Mengil to no one from a lore perspective? I know he is a minor character, I said he is the best from a "gameplay, location and thematic perspective", so don't put words that I didn't used in my mouth.

    And I have read Kouran Lore, he is a cool guy, but this is a video game that focuses more on what a character can bring in terms of gameplay than in terms of lore, or otherwise we would not have got Markus before Kurt, Repanse before Bohemond or other examples of characters that were chosen because of what they bring to the table from a gameplay perspective.

    Kouran is a DE with a halberd on foot that would be focused on Black Guard, surprise surprise, Malekith alredy has buffs to Black Guard in the form of heavy upkeep reduction and Rakarth is the AP Antilarge LL of the race, so Kouran brings nothing to the table from a gameplay perspective.

    The fact that Mengil is a ranged LL with a clear focus on shades and his own unique unit, puts him way above Kouran from a gameplay perspective.

    And yeah, Kouran is a great general, but his entire purpose on life is to protect Malekith, which he cannot do from Cathay.

    And your are comparing me wanting Mengil as a LL to sayin that the Sun is purple?? Dude, relax, I think you are taking a video game too seriously, you know that no one is going to die because Kouran isn't made a LL right?

    And essentially you are telling me that I shouldn't tell my opinion about something because in your opinion I don't know anything about the lore or I disrepect it, so not only my opinion is wrong only because contradicts yours but also inshoundnt even be able to speak it because you think is wrong? Gotcha, another thing to explain to the mods.
    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • LordTorquemadoLordTorquemado Registered Users Posts: 2,042

    DE don't really need any justification to be on the Game 3 map, we know they like to to raze the coast of the Far East.

    Lokhir is already the corsair LL of the DE, if anything he should be the one starting near Ind.

    Kouran is to Malekith what Ludwig is to Karl Franz, their personal bodyguards and most trusted advisors, so no, he is LH material for Malekith, sending him across the world, where he cannot protect Malekith, defeats his entire purpose about been a body guard.

    Tullaris on the other hand, is crazy and he only cares for the voices in his head, so if they say that he should go to Cathay he will go, he doesn't need a lot of convincing, but as has been said in other places, he would be better starting in Ulthuan in charge of the Scourge of Khaine faction, so maybe as a FLC LL exclusive to the ME like Drycha?

    Then, there is Mengil Manhide, the better choice in my opinion from a gameplay, location and thematic perspective:

    He is a mercenary, so he can start in any place, but he is also tied to Clar Karond as he is the son of a Lord of that city, so he could have a confederation mission like Lokhir and Rakarth have with Karond Kar, then, he is a ranged LL, which the DE currently lack, he would also be focused on shades, which no LL currently focuses on, he would bring a unique unit with him, his Manflayers, and he also has clear mercenary mechanics.

    So TLDR, Tullaris and Mengil LL in game 3, Kouran as a LH for Malekith, Duriath is redundant since we have Lokhir.

    HAHAHAHAHHA.

    This is so wrong in every way that you made me laugh hard, I will admit it.

    1. Kouran is not the Ludwig equivalent of the Druchii. Should you have interested a minimum in DE lore, you would know that Kouran is more than Malekith’s bodyguard. He is the right hand of the Witch King, the favored general of Malekith and the one in charge of the agents and spies of Naggaroth. He was the only able to keep united the Land of Chill, deed that even Morathi wasn’t able to do without Kouran. Kouran is to the Dark Elves what both Helborg and Schwarzhelm are to the Empire.

    2. Gameplay and thematic wise, he is the best option only in your head. The DE aren’t a faction prone to use or be mercenaries precisely. A mercenary mechanic is an insult for their lore and coherence. Now compare that anticlimactic and lorebreaking mechanic with Avatar of Khaine for Tullaris or defense/special mission for Kouran, with their respective unique units for each roster.

    3. He is the son of a minor lord of Clar Karond. It’s not like he is the son of the drachau of Hag Graef, or the most important fleetmaster or beastmaster of Naggaroth. This guy achieves what was impossible: to make Lokhir and Rakarth seem important.

    4. Mengil is already represented in the game as the best way he could be: a rogue lord.

    In definitive, the only characters that DE need to be perfectly represented are Kouran, Tullaris and Shadowblade, this one as LH, of course.
    It's not like what you say will change my mind, it's your personal opinion, and I have mine, but if I were you I would keep the personal attacks at a minimum, since you are already in jail for a reason.

    And relax, you already ranted about how Lokhir and Rakarth are the worst thing the DE have suffered in this game in other places, so no need to do it again here.
    Lokhir and Rakarth are the worst thing that DE have suffered for now, but only if the time eliminates every trace of hope for Kouran and Tullaris. If they come, then Lokhir and Rakarth will be perfect additions for the game.

    And don’t worry, that’s not a personal attack. It’s just as simple as not every opinion is equal, as your opinion demonstrates with its lack of knowledge or complete disrespect for the lore.
    So, now, different opinions that yours, are laveled as "lack of knowledge or complete disrespect for the lore", gotcha, tell that to mods later dude.
    No. But obviously, when someone compares Mengil to Rakarth or Lokhir (I won’t even say Kouran and Tullaris) from a lore perspective, he is demonstrating “lack of knowledge”. The same as saying Kouran is only a bodyguard. It shows a lack of knowledge that demonstrates little to zero interest in his lore, which can be considered by others as a “complete disrespect for the lore”. Which is fine, but then don’t use the lore argument, say that you don’t care about the lore and that you think Mengil is a better idea regardless of the rest, as many others have done with other characters.

    And if you use this argument, don’t be surprised by the fact that one guy will tell you that you’re misleading information. You can tell that the Sun is purple and that this is your opinion, but making your opinion won’t make it true. And by the way, from your perspective when someone says something that’s not true to another person, the other one shouldn’t response or contradict out of fear of being disrespectful, which is completely absurd.

    You have two options in this regard: read the lore before writing about it or pase on lore and don’t talk about it.
    I never compared Mengil to no one from a lore perspective? I know he is a minor character, I said he is the best from a "gameplay, location and thematic perspective", so don't put words that I didn't used in my mouth.

    And I have read Kouran Lore, he is a cool guy, but this is a video game that focuses more on what a character can bring in terms of gameplay than in terms of lore, or otherwise we would not have got Markus before Kurt, Repanse before Bohemond or other examples of characters that were chosen because of what they bring to the table from a gameplay perspective.

    Kouran is a DE with a halberd on foot that would be focused on Black Guard, surprise surprise, Malekith alredy has buffs to Black Guard in the form of heavy upkeep reduction and Rakarth is the AP Antilarge LL of the race, so Kouran brings nothing to the table from a gameplay perspective.

    The fact that Mengil is a ranged LL with a clear focus on shades and his own unique unit, puts him way above Kouran from a gameplay perspective.

    And yeah, Kouran is a great general, but his entire purpose on life is to protect Malekith, which he cannot do from Cathay.

    And your are comparing me wanting Mengil as a LL to sayin that the Sun is purple?? Dude, relax, I think you are taking a video game too seriously, you know that no one is going to die because Kouran isn't made a LL right?

    And essentially you are telling me that I shouldn't tell my opinion about something because in your opinion I don't know anything about the lore or I disrepect it, so not only my opinion is wrong only because contradicts yours but also inshoundnt even be able to speak it because you think is wrong? Gotcha, another thing to explain to the mods.
    You said literally that Mengil could confederate Clar Karond the same way Lokhir and Rakarth confederate Karond Kar because of his father, a complete no one who is from that city. So you’re comparing him to Lokhir and Rakarth to defend his inclusion; you can retract it if you want, but don’t negate you said it.

    We all know why Repanse was chosen instead of Bohemond, so not the best example. I would rather leave her out of this debate to focus on the Druchii characters, which is what it matters in this post.

    Kouran can bring different gameplay, you like it or not. Malekith got upkeep reduction for the Black Guard, but he doesn’t buff them, and while Rakarth is an anti large LL, he is focused on monsters and can ride dragons. Kouran would be an anti large foot lord focused on duelist and commanding, something that doesn’t exist in the DE roster. Much more than a repeater crossbow, which is what you claim to defend Mengil Ghorst.

    You shouldn’t use the argument of units, because while Tullaris brings Hag Queens, Disciples of Khaine, Draich Masters and Statues of Khaine, Kouran brings The Endless and the Lords of Oblivion. And the entire purpose of Kouran isn’t protect Malekith, but serve him and see him throned as the legitimate king of all elves. These are not my words, but Kouran’s words:
    You are the true king of the elves, Malekith. You are the son of Aenarion, champion of the Daemon War, heir to the Phoenix Crown. It is your right by deed, merit and birth and I would give my life to see that ancient wrong reversed and your rightful position restored. As an elf I can think of no higher calling


    No, I don’t compare you saying that you want Mengil to say that the Sun is purple; I compare it to the fact that you say that Kouran is only a bodyguard, a Ludwig equivalent. You saying that Mengil and a mercenary mechanic would be thematically superior to Tullaris’ Avatar of Khaine or Kouran’s purpose as the right hand of the Witch King is very poor in my opinion, but that’s not a lack of knowledge so obvious as saying that Kouran is only a bodyguard or comparing Mengil to Lokhir.

    And again, no. I don’t mind you’ve other opinions. You’re constantly victimizing yourself because you don’t have other weapon to defend the poor arguments that ask for Mengil’s inclusion. Your posts have showed lack of knowledge in lore, and therefore I told you that those arguments were invalid. I urge you to talk with knowledge of lore before using the lore argument, or to do not use the lore argument at all, so stop the victimization because I only referred to that part. Many people think that the lore is secondary and therefore they defend characters only from a gameplay perspective leaving the lore behind; that’s the opinion of many others and even if I don’t like it I have to respect it, but what you can’t do is asking for the inclusion of Mengil lying about the lore of other characters like Kouran, because then you’re showing the signaled lack of knowledge, or worse, disrespect for the truth and lore.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 17,625
    Ok don't really care who or what about DE. But the whole conversation of repanse replacing Bohemond is stupid to say the least.

    Bohemond is not in the game because Alberic literally does everything Bohemond is supposed to do.

    Has antilarge ap, gives antilarge in a AoE , even comes on a flying mount. Buff knights of the realm. If you want someone to balme why Bohemond is not in game blame Alberic.

    Its the end of the story.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 8,607

    DE don't really need any justification to be on the Game 3 map, we know they like to to raze the coast of the Far East.

    Lokhir is already the corsair LL of the DE, if anything he should be the one starting near Ind.

    Kouran is to Malekith what Ludwig is to Karl Franz, their personal bodyguards and most trusted advisors, so no, he is LH material for Malekith, sending him across the world, where he cannot protect Malekith, defeats his entire purpose about been a body guard.

    Tullaris on the other hand, is crazy and he only cares for the voices in his head, so if they say that he should go to Cathay he will go, he doesn't need a lot of convincing, but as has been said in other places, he would be better starting in Ulthuan in charge of the Scourge of Khaine faction, so maybe as a FLC LL exclusive to the ME like Drycha?

    Then, there is Mengil Manhide, the better choice in my opinion from a gameplay, location and thematic perspective:

    He is a mercenary, so he can start in any place, but he is also tied to Clar Karond as he is the son of a Lord of that city, so he could have a confederation mission like Lokhir and Rakarth have with Karond Kar, then, he is a ranged LL, which the DE currently lack, he would also be focused on shades, which no LL currently focuses on, he would bring a unique unit with him, his Manflayers, and he also has clear mercenary mechanics.

    So TLDR, Tullaris and Mengil LL in game 3, Kouran as a LH for Malekith, Duriath is redundant since we have Lokhir.

    HAHAHAHAHHA.

    This is so wrong in every way that you made me laugh hard, I will admit it.

    1. Kouran is not the Ludwig equivalent of the Druchii. Should you have interested a minimum in DE lore, you would know that Kouran is more than Malekith’s bodyguard. He is the right hand of the Witch King, the favored general of Malekith and the one in charge of the agents and spies of Naggaroth. He was the only able to keep united the Land of Chill, deed that even Morathi wasn’t able to do without Kouran. Kouran is to the Dark Elves what both Helborg and Schwarzhelm are to the Empire.

    2. Gameplay and thematic wise, he is the best option only in your head. The DE aren’t a faction prone to use or be mercenaries precisely. A mercenary mechanic is an insult for their lore and coherence. Now compare that anticlimactic and lorebreaking mechanic with Avatar of Khaine for Tullaris or defense/special mission for Kouran, with their respective unique units for each roster.

    3. He is the son of a minor lord of Clar Karond. It’s not like he is the son of the drachau of Hag Graef, or the most important fleetmaster or beastmaster of Naggaroth. This guy achieves what was impossible: to make Lokhir and Rakarth seem important.

    4. Mengil is already represented in the game as the best way he could be: a rogue lord.

    In definitive, the only characters that DE need to be perfectly represented are Kouran, Tullaris and Shadowblade, this one as LH, of course.
    It's not like what you say will change my mind, it's your personal opinion, and I have mine, but if I were you I would keep the personal attacks at a minimum, since you are already in jail for a reason.

    And relax, you already ranted about how Lokhir and Rakarth are the worst thing the DE have suffered in this game in other places, so no need to do it again here.
    Lokhir and Rakarth are the worst thing that DE have suffered for now, but only if the time eliminates every trace of hope for Kouran and Tullaris. If they come, then Lokhir and Rakarth will be perfect additions for the game.

    And don’t worry, that’s not a personal attack. It’s just as simple as not every opinion is equal, as your opinion demonstrates with its lack of knowledge or complete disrespect for the lore.
    So, now, different opinions that yours, are laveled as "lack of knowledge or complete disrespect for the lore", gotcha, tell that to mods later dude.
    No. But obviously, when someone compares Mengil to Rakarth or Lokhir (I won’t even say Kouran and Tullaris) from a lore perspective, he is demonstrating “lack of knowledge”. The same as saying Kouran is only a bodyguard. It shows a lack of knowledge that demonstrates little to zero interest in his lore, which can be considered by others as a “complete disrespect for the lore”. Which is fine, but then don’t use the lore argument, say that you don’t care about the lore and that you think Mengil is a better idea regardless of the rest, as many others have done with other characters.

    And if you use this argument, don’t be surprised by the fact that one guy will tell you that you’re misleading information. You can tell that the Sun is purple and that this is your opinion, but making your opinion won’t make it true. And by the way, from your perspective when someone says something that’s not true to another person, the other one shouldn’t response or contradict out of fear of being disrespectful, which is completely absurd.

    You have two options in this regard: read the lore before writing about it or pase on lore and don’t talk about it.
    I never compared Mengil to no one from a lore perspective? I know he is a minor character, I said he is the best from a "gameplay, location and thematic perspective", so don't put words that I didn't used in my mouth.

    And I have read Kouran Lore, he is a cool guy, but this is a video game that focuses more on what a character can bring in terms of gameplay than in terms of lore, or otherwise we would not have got Markus before Kurt, Repanse before Bohemond or other examples of characters that were chosen because of what they bring to the table from a gameplay perspective.

    Kouran is a DE with a halberd on foot that would be focused on Black Guard, surprise surprise, Malekith alredy has buffs to Black Guard in the form of heavy upkeep reduction and Rakarth is the AP Antilarge LL of the race, so Kouran brings nothing to the table from a gameplay perspective.

    The fact that Mengil is a ranged LL with a clear focus on shades and his own unique unit, puts him way above Kouran from a gameplay perspective.

    And yeah, Kouran is a great general, but his entire purpose on life is to protect Malekith, which he cannot do from Cathay.

    And your are comparing me wanting Mengil as a LL to sayin that the Sun is purple?? Dude, relax, I think you are taking a video game too seriously, you know that no one is going to die because Kouran isn't made a LL right?

    And essentially you are telling me that I shouldn't tell my opinion about something because in your opinion I don't know anything about the lore or I disrepect it, so not only my opinion is wrong only because contradicts yours but also inshoundnt even be able to speak it because you think is wrong? Gotcha, another thing to explain to the mods.
    You said literally that Mengil could confederate Clar Karond the same way Lokhir and Rakarth confederate Karond Kar because of his father, a complete no one who is from that city. So you’re comparing him to Lokhir and Rakarth to defend his inclusion; you can retract it if you want, but don’t negate you said it.

    We all know why Repanse was chosen instead of Bohemond, so not the best example. I would rather leave her out of this debate to focus on the Druchii characters, which is what it matters in this post.

    Kouran can bring different gameplay, you like it or not. Malekith got upkeep reduction for the Black Guard, but he doesn’t buff them, and while Rakarth is an anti large LL, he is focused on monsters and can ride dragons. Kouran would be an anti large foot lord focused on duelist and commanding, something that doesn’t exist in the DE roster. Much more than a repeater crossbow, which is what you claim to defend Mengil Ghorst.

    You shouldn’t use the argument of units, because while Tullaris brings Hag Queens, Disciples of Khaine, Draich Masters and Statues of Khaine, Kouran brings The Endless and the Lords of Oblivion. And the entire purpose of Kouran isn’t protect Malekith, but serve him and see him throned as the legitimate king of all elves. These are not my words, but Kouran’s words:
    You are the true king of the elves, Malekith. You are the son of Aenarion, champion of the Daemon War, heir to the Phoenix Crown. It is your right by deed, merit and birth and I would give my life to see that ancient wrong reversed and your rightful position restored. As an elf I can think of no higher calling


    No, I don’t compare you saying that you want Mengil to say that the Sun is purple; I compare it to the fact that you say that Kouran is only a bodyguard, a Ludwig equivalent. You saying that Mengil and a mercenary mechanic would be thematically superior to Tullaris’ Avatar of Khaine or Kouran’s purpose as the right hand of the Witch King is very poor in my opinion, but that’s not a lack of knowledge so obvious as saying that Kouran is only a bodyguard or comparing Mengil to Lokhir.

    And again, no. I don’t mind you’ve other opinions. You’re constantly victimizing yourself because you don’t have other weapon to defend the poor arguments that ask for Mengil’s inclusion. Your posts have showed lack of knowledge in lore, and therefore I told you that those arguments were invalid. I urge you to talk with knowledge of lore before using the lore argument, or to do not use the lore argument at all, so stop the victimization because I only referred to that part. Many people think that the lore is secondary and therefore they defend characters only from a gameplay perspective leaving the lore behind; that’s the opinion of many others and even if I don’t like it I have to respect it, but what you can’t do is asking for the inclusion of Mengil lying about the lore of other characters like Kouran, because then you’re showing the signaled lack of knowledge, or worse, disrespect for the truth and lore.
    Yes, I used Lokhir and Rakarth as an example of characters that can confederate another faction, from a gameplay perspective, nowhere did I said about him being more important? I only said that he has a conection to Clar Karond, which he has, and said it as an idea, not an absolute must.

    Yeah, Repanse was chosen as the Questing Knigth and peasant LL of the faction, since her entire skill tree is about buffing peasants,if you want to see more into it is your problem.

    Did I said somewhere that Mengil should be DLC? No, he can come as a FLC LL and Tullaris be the DLC one, Mengil only would need his Manflayers like how Alith Anar got a unique unit, I wouldn't throw a tantrum because of that, it's just a video game.

    How does that quote demonstrate that he is not Malekith personal bodyguard? If anything it demostrates his devotion to ensuring that Malekith is crowned as Phoneix King, which he can't do from Cathay.

    And I never said that he is just a body guard? I literally called him "personal bodyguards and most trusted advisors", and neither did I said that Tullaris had no theme? Only that Mengil would buff Shades, which no LL currently does, and that that would be more interesting to me, so again stop putting words in my mouth, an again it's a subejective opinion.

    That you think my arguments about Mengil are bad is your opinion, but I stated arguments that are as valid as yours for wanting Kouran, I don't have a problem with counter arguments, but what you do is attack any one that doesn't agree with you, which is why you are in jail, so again, I would relax and avoid personal commentary because at this rate you will be banned.

    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 8,607
    saweendra said:

    Ok don't really care who or what about DE. But the whole conversation of repanse replacing Bohemond is stupid to say the least.

    Bohemond is not in the game because Alberic literally does everything Bohemond is supposed to do.

    Has antilarge ap, gives antilarge in a AoE , even comes on a flying mount. Buff knights of the realm. If you want someone to balme why Bohemond is not in game blame Alberic.

    Its the end of the story.

    I agree, I only used the example to show that CA doesn't take lore importance as the only consideration.
    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • LordTorquemadoLordTorquemado Registered Users Posts: 2,042
    saweendra said:

    Ok don't really care who or what about DE. But the whole conversation of repanse replacing Bohemond is stupid to say the least.

    Bohemond is not in the game because Alberic literally does everything Bohemond is supposed to do.

    Has antilarge ap, gives antilarge in a AoE , even comes on a flying mount. Buff knights of the realm. If you want someone to balme why Bohemond is not in game blame Alberic.

    Its the end of the story.

    It would be the end of the story SHOULDN’T Repanse been dead for some centuries. So don’t be so fast, my friend. Obviously we don’t agree, so for the sake of the discussion let’s end this here or continue in private message if you wish, but we already know this won’t do any good to this post, so stop it now or continue in private.
  • LordTorquemadoLordTorquemado Registered Users Posts: 2,042
    edited March 2021

    DE don't really need any justification to be on the Game 3 map, we know they like to to raze the coast of the Far East.

    Lokhir is already the corsair LL of the DE, if anything he should be the one starting near Ind.

    Kouran is to Malekith what Ludwig is to Karl Franz, their personal bodyguards and most trusted advisors, so no, he is LH material for Malekith, sending him across the world, where he cannot protect Malekith, defeats his entire purpose about been a body guard.

    Tullaris on the other hand, is crazy and he only cares for the voices in his head, so if they say that he should go to Cathay he will go, he doesn't need a lot of convincing, but as has been said in other places, he would be better starting in Ulthuan in charge of the Scourge of Khaine faction, so maybe as a FLC LL exclusive to the ME like Drycha?

    Then, there is Mengil Manhide, the better choice in my opinion from a gameplay, location and thematic perspective:

    He is a mercenary, so he can start in any place, but he is also tied to Clar Karond as he is the son of a Lord of that city, so he could have a confederation mission like Lokhir and Rakarth have with Karond Kar, then, he is a ranged LL, which the DE currently lack, he would also be focused on shades, which no LL currently focuses on, he would bring a unique unit with him, his Manflayers, and he also has clear mercenary mechanics.

    So TLDR, Tullaris and Mengil LL in game 3, Kouran as a LH for Malekith, Duriath is redundant since we have Lokhir.

    HAHAHAHAHHA.

    This is so wrong in every way that you made me laugh hard, I will admit it.

    1. Kouran is not the Ludwig equivalent of the Druchii. Should you have interested a minimum in DE lore, you would know that Kouran is more than Malekith’s bodyguard. He is the right hand of the Witch King, the favored general of Malekith and the one in charge of the agents and spies of Naggaroth. He was the only able to keep united the Land of Chill, deed that even Morathi wasn’t able to do without Kouran. Kouran is to the Dark Elves what both Helborg and Schwarzhelm are to the Empire.

    2. Gameplay and thematic wise, he is the best option only in your head. The DE aren’t a faction prone to use or be mercenaries precisely. A mercenary mechanic is an insult for their lore and coherence. Now compare that anticlimactic and lorebreaking mechanic with Avatar of Khaine for Tullaris or defense/special mission for Kouran, with their respective unique units for each roster.

    3. He is the son of a minor lord of Clar Karond. It’s not like he is the son of the drachau of Hag Graef, or the most important fleetmaster or beastmaster of Naggaroth. This guy achieves what was impossible: to make Lokhir and Rakarth seem important.

    4. Mengil is already represented in the game as the best way he could be: a rogue lord.

    In definitive, the only characters that DE need to be perfectly represented are Kouran, Tullaris and Shadowblade, this one as LH, of course.
    It's not like what you say will change my mind, it's your personal opinion, and I have mine, but if I were you I would keep the personal attacks at a minimum, since you are already in jail for a reason.

    And relax, you already ranted about how Lokhir and Rakarth are the worst thing the DE have suffered in this game in other places, so no need to do it again here.
    Lokhir and Rakarth are the worst thing that DE have suffered for now, but only if the time eliminates every trace of hope for Kouran and Tullaris. If they come, then Lokhir and Rakarth will be perfect additions for the game.

    And don’t worry, that’s not a personal attack. It’s just as simple as not every opinion is equal, as your opinion demonstrates with its lack of knowledge or complete disrespect for the lore.
    So, now, different opinions that yours, are laveled as "lack of knowledge or complete disrespect for the lore", gotcha, tell that to mods later dude.
    No. But obviously, when someone compares Mengil to Rakarth or Lokhir (I won’t even say Kouran and Tullaris) from a lore perspective, he is demonstrating “lack of knowledge”. The same as saying Kouran is only a bodyguard. It shows a lack of knowledge that demonstrates little to zero interest in his lore, which can be considered by others as a “complete disrespect for the lore”. Which is fine, but then don’t use the lore argument, say that you don’t care about the lore and that you think Mengil is a better idea regardless of the rest, as many others have done with other characters.

    And if you use this argument, don’t be surprised by the fact that one guy will tell you that you’re misleading information. You can tell that the Sun is purple and that this is your opinion, but making your opinion won’t make it true. And by the way, from your perspective when someone says something that’s not true to another person, the other one shouldn’t response or contradict out of fear of being disrespectful, which is completely absurd.

    You have two options in this regard: read the lore before writing about it or pase on lore and don’t talk about it.
    I never compared Mengil to no one from a lore perspective? I know he is a minor character, I said he is the best from a "gameplay, location and thematic perspective", so don't put words that I didn't used in my mouth.

    And I have read Kouran Lore, he is a cool guy, but this is a video game that focuses more on what a character can bring in terms of gameplay than in terms of lore, or otherwise we would not have got Markus before Kurt, Repanse before Bohemond or other examples of characters that were chosen because of what they bring to the table from a gameplay perspective.

    Kouran is a DE with a halberd on foot that would be focused on Black Guard, surprise surprise, Malekith alredy has buffs to Black Guard in the form of heavy upkeep reduction and Rakarth is the AP Antilarge LL of the race, so Kouran brings nothing to the table from a gameplay perspective.

    The fact that Mengil is a ranged LL with a clear focus on shades and his own unique unit, puts him way above Kouran from a gameplay perspective.

    And yeah, Kouran is a great general, but his entire purpose on life is to protect Malekith, which he cannot do from Cathay.

    And your are comparing me wanting Mengil as a LL to sayin that the Sun is purple?? Dude, relax, I think you are taking a video game too seriously, you know that no one is going to die because Kouran isn't made a LL right?

    And essentially you are telling me that I shouldn't tell my opinion about something because in your opinion I don't know anything about the lore or I disrepect it, so not only my opinion is wrong only because contradicts yours but also inshoundnt even be able to speak it because you think is wrong? Gotcha, another thing to explain to the mods.
    You said literally that Mengil could confederate Clar Karond the same way Lokhir and Rakarth confederate Karond Kar because of his father, a complete no one who is from that city. So you’re comparing him to Lokhir and Rakarth to defend his inclusion; you can retract it if you want, but don’t negate you said it.

    We all know why Repanse was chosen instead of Bohemond, so not the best example. I would rather leave her out of this debate to focus on the Druchii characters, which is what it matters in this post.

    Kouran can bring different gameplay, you like it or not. Malekith got upkeep reduction for the Black Guard, but he doesn’t buff them, and while Rakarth is an anti large LL, he is focused on monsters and can ride dragons. Kouran would be an anti large foot lord focused on duelist and commanding, something that doesn’t exist in the DE roster. Much more than a repeater crossbow, which is what you claim to defend Mengil Ghorst.

    You shouldn’t use the argument of units, because while Tullaris brings Hag Queens, Disciples of Khaine, Draich Masters and Statues of Khaine, Kouran brings The Endless and the Lords of Oblivion. And the entire purpose of Kouran isn’t protect Malekith, but serve him and see him throned as the legitimate king of all elves. These are not my words, but Kouran’s words:
    You are the true king of the elves, Malekith. You are the son of Aenarion, champion of the Daemon War, heir to the Phoenix Crown. It is your right by deed, merit and birth and I would give my life to see that ancient wrong reversed and your rightful position restored. As an elf I can think of no higher calling


    No, I don’t compare you saying that you want Mengil to say that the Sun is purple; I compare it to the fact that you say that Kouran is only a bodyguard, a Ludwig equivalent. You saying that Mengil and a mercenary mechanic would be thematically superior to Tullaris’ Avatar of Khaine or Kouran’s purpose as the right hand of the Witch King is very poor in my opinion, but that’s not a lack of knowledge so obvious as saying that Kouran is only a bodyguard or comparing Mengil to Lokhir.

    And again, no. I don’t mind you’ve other opinions. You’re constantly victimizing yourself because you don’t have other weapon to defend the poor arguments that ask for Mengil’s inclusion. Your posts have showed lack of knowledge in lore, and therefore I told you that those arguments were invalid. I urge you to talk with knowledge of lore before using the lore argument, or to do not use the lore argument at all, so stop the victimization because I only referred to that part. Many people think that the lore is secondary and therefore they defend characters only from a gameplay perspective leaving the lore behind; that’s the opinion of many others and even if I don’t like it I have to respect it, but what you can’t do is asking for the inclusion of Mengil lying about the lore of other characters like Kouran, because then you’re showing the signaled lack of knowledge, or worse, disrespect for the truth and lore.
    Yes, I used Lokhir and Rakarth as an example of characters that can confederate another faction, from a gameplay perspective, nowhere did I said about him being more important? I only said that he has a conection to Clar Karond, which he has, and said it as an idea, not an absolute must.

    Yeah, Repanse was chosen as the Questing Knigth and peasant LL of the faction, since her entire skill tree is about buffing peasants,if you want to see more into it is your problem.

    Did I said somewhere that Mengil should be DLC? No, he can come as a FLC LL and Tullaris be the DLC one, Mengil only would need his Manflayers like how Alith Anar got a unique unit, I wouldn't throw a tantrum because of that, it's just a video game.

    How does that quote demonstrate that he is not Malekith personal bodyguard? If anything it demostrates his devotion to ensuring that Malekith is crowned as Phoneix King, which he can't do from Cathay.

    And I never said that he is just a body guard? I literally called him "personal bodyguards and most trusted advisors", and neither did I said that Tullaris had no theme? Only that Mengil would buff Shades, which no LL currently does, and that that would be more interesting to me, so again stop putting words in my mouth, an again it's a subejective opinion.

    That you think my arguments about Mengil are bad is your opinion, but I stated arguments that are as valid as yours for wanting Kouran, I don't have a problem with counter arguments, but what you do is attack any one that doesn't agree with you, which is why you are in jail, so again, I would relax and avoid personal commentary because at this rate you will be banned.

    I won’t stay silent while you say Kouran is nothing more than a bodyguard. That’s simply not true and insulting to his lore. If you have a problem with it do not lie in the first place. And no, your arguments aren’t as good as mine since you’re literally asking for a lord with a mercenary mechanic for the DE. Seriously? We shouldn’t even “discuss” this. Mercenaries don’t fit with DE, and DE don’t fit with mercenaries. Mengil is the exception, not the norme, and therefore he is perfect the way he is now: already represented as a Rogue Lord.

    The only valid argument you said for Mengil is that he would focus on shades. I don’t like it, but it’s subjective as you say. But mercenary mechanic for the DE, Kouran being only a bodyguard or Mengil confederating Clar Karond because his father was a noone born there are objectively very bad arguments, some of them even lies.

    Sorry not sorry.
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,073
    Failing to add DE factions as enemies for Cathay would be a huge missed opportunity from CA.

    I would prefer to see Mengil as LL as I find him the most interesting, but any DE would work for adding a theme of antagonism to bring Cathay deeper into the core fabric of the lore by making one of the most important (lorefully speaking) races one they have frequent contact with.
  • LordTorquemadoLordTorquemado Registered Users Posts: 2,042
    edited March 2021

    Failing to add DE factions as enemies for Cathay would be a huge missed opportunity from CA.

    I would prefer to see Mengil as LL as I find him the most interesting, but any DE would work for adding a theme of antagonism to bring Cathay deeper into the core fabric of the lore by making one of the most important (lorefully speaking) races one they have frequent contact with.

    The most fitting LL in Cathay would be Lokhir, so moving him to Cathay in the third game would be the best option in my opinion. However Tullaris against Khorne in the north of the continent or Kouran in a special mission would be ok too. My personal choice would be Lokhir in Cathay, Tullaris in Nagarythe and Kouran as secondary LL to Malekith or in Cathay/Ulthuan.

    @mecanojavi99
    You see, here Mr_Finley7 says that he prefers Mengil because he finds him the most interesting LL, and while I don’t agree with him, I respect it. The little big difference is he didn’t lie about Kouran and Mengil to justify his decision. He just likes him more for whatever reason, which can’t be denied or argued since it hasn’t been explained. Now continue with the victimization if you wish, but what I am attacking is not you, but the mislead of information.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 8,607

    DE don't really need any justification to be on the Game 3 map, we know they like to to raze the coast of the Far East.

    Lokhir is already the corsair LL of the DE, if anything he should be the one starting near Ind.

    Kouran is to Malekith what Ludwig is to Karl Franz, their personal bodyguards and most trusted advisors, so no, he is LH material for Malekith, sending him across the world, where he cannot protect Malekith, defeats his entire purpose about been a body guard.

    Tullaris on the other hand, is crazy and he only cares for the voices in his head, so if they say that he should go to Cathay he will go, he doesn't need a lot of convincing, but as has been said in other places, he would be better starting in Ulthuan in charge of the Scourge of Khaine faction, so maybe as a FLC LL exclusive to the ME like Drycha?

    Then, there is Mengil Manhide, the better choice in my opinion from a gameplay, location and thematic perspective:

    He is a mercenary, so he can start in any place, but he is also tied to Clar Karond as he is the son of a Lord of that city, so he could have a confederation mission like Lokhir and Rakarth have with Karond Kar, then, he is a ranged LL, which the DE currently lack, he would also be focused on shades, which no LL currently focuses on, he would bring a unique unit with him, his Manflayers, and he also has clear mercenary mechanics.

    So TLDR, Tullaris and Mengil LL in game 3, Kouran as a LH for Malekith, Duriath is redundant since we have Lokhir.

    HAHAHAHAHHA.

    This is so wrong in every way that you made me laugh hard, I will admit it.

    1. Kouran is not the Ludwig equivalent of the Druchii. Should you have interested a minimum in DE lore, you would know that Kouran is more than Malekith’s bodyguard. He is the right hand of the Witch King, the favored general of Malekith and the one in charge of the agents and spies of Naggaroth. He was the only able to keep united the Land of Chill, deed that even Morathi wasn’t able to do without Kouran. Kouran is to the Dark Elves what both Helborg and Schwarzhelm are to the Empire.

    2. Gameplay and thematic wise, he is the best option only in your head. The DE aren’t a faction prone to use or be mercenaries precisely. A mercenary mechanic is an insult for their lore and coherence. Now compare that anticlimactic and lorebreaking mechanic with Avatar of Khaine for Tullaris or defense/special mission for Kouran, with their respective unique units for each roster.

    3. He is the son of a minor lord of Clar Karond. It’s not like he is the son of the drachau of Hag Graef, or the most important fleetmaster or beastmaster of Naggaroth. This guy achieves what was impossible: to make Lokhir and Rakarth seem important.

    4. Mengil is already represented in the game as the best way he could be: a rogue lord.

    In definitive, the only characters that DE need to be perfectly represented are Kouran, Tullaris and Shadowblade, this one as LH, of course.
    It's not like what you say will change my mind, it's your personal opinion, and I have mine, but if I were you I would keep the personal attacks at a minimum, since you are already in jail for a reason.

    And relax, you already ranted about how Lokhir and Rakarth are the worst thing the DE have suffered in this game in other places, so no need to do it again here.
    Lokhir and Rakarth are the worst thing that DE have suffered for now, but only if the time eliminates every trace of hope for Kouran and Tullaris. If they come, then Lokhir and Rakarth will be perfect additions for the game.

    And don’t worry, that’s not a personal attack. It’s just as simple as not every opinion is equal, as your opinion demonstrates with its lack of knowledge or complete disrespect for the lore.
    So, now, different opinions that yours, are laveled as "lack of knowledge or complete disrespect for the lore", gotcha, tell that to mods later dude.
    No. But obviously, when someone compares Mengil to Rakarth or Lokhir (I won’t even say Kouran and Tullaris) from a lore perspective, he is demonstrating “lack of knowledge”. The same as saying Kouran is only a bodyguard. It shows a lack of knowledge that demonstrates little to zero interest in his lore, which can be considered by others as a “complete disrespect for the lore”. Which is fine, but then don’t use the lore argument, say that you don’t care about the lore and that you think Mengil is a better idea regardless of the rest, as many others have done with other characters.

    And if you use this argument, don’t be surprised by the fact that one guy will tell you that you’re misleading information. You can tell that the Sun is purple and that this is your opinion, but making your opinion won’t make it true. And by the way, from your perspective when someone says something that’s not true to another person, the other one shouldn’t response or contradict out of fear of being disrespectful, which is completely absurd.

    You have two options in this regard: read the lore before writing about it or pase on lore and don’t talk about it.
    I never compared Mengil to no one from a lore perspective? I know he is a minor character, I said he is the best from a "gameplay, location and thematic perspective", so don't put words that I didn't used in my mouth.

    And I have read Kouran Lore, he is a cool guy, but this is a video game that focuses more on what a character can bring in terms of gameplay than in terms of lore, or otherwise we would not have got Markus before Kurt, Repanse before Bohemond or other examples of characters that were chosen because of what they bring to the table from a gameplay perspective.

    Kouran is a DE with a halberd on foot that would be focused on Black Guard, surprise surprise, Malekith alredy has buffs to Black Guard in the form of heavy upkeep reduction and Rakarth is the AP Antilarge LL of the race, so Kouran brings nothing to the table from a gameplay perspective.

    The fact that Mengil is a ranged LL with a clear focus on shades and his own unique unit, puts him way above Kouran from a gameplay perspective.

    And yeah, Kouran is a great general, but his entire purpose on life is to protect Malekith, which he cannot do from Cathay.

    And your are comparing me wanting Mengil as a LL to sayin that the Sun is purple?? Dude, relax, I think you are taking a video game too seriously, you know that no one is going to die because Kouran isn't made a LL right?

    And essentially you are telling me that I shouldn't tell my opinion about something because in your opinion I don't know anything about the lore or I disrepect it, so not only my opinion is wrong only because contradicts yours but also inshoundnt even be able to speak it because you think is wrong? Gotcha, another thing to explain to the mods.
    You said literally that Mengil could confederate Clar Karond the same way Lokhir and Rakarth confederate Karond Kar because of his father, a complete no one who is from that city. So you’re comparing him to Lokhir and Rakarth to defend his inclusion; you can retract it if you want, but don’t negate you said it.

    We all know why Repanse was chosen instead of Bohemond, so not the best example. I would rather leave her out of this debate to focus on the Druchii characters, which is what it matters in this post.

    Kouran can bring different gameplay, you like it or not. Malekith got upkeep reduction for the Black Guard, but he doesn’t buff them, and while Rakarth is an anti large LL, he is focused on monsters and can ride dragons. Kouran would be an anti large foot lord focused on duelist and commanding, something that doesn’t exist in the DE roster. Much more than a repeater crossbow, which is what you claim to defend Mengil Ghorst.

    You shouldn’t use the argument of units, because while Tullaris brings Hag Queens, Disciples of Khaine, Draich Masters and Statues of Khaine, Kouran brings The Endless and the Lords of Oblivion. And the entire purpose of Kouran isn’t protect Malekith, but serve him and see him throned as the legitimate king of all elves. These are not my words, but Kouran’s words:
    You are the true king of the elves, Malekith. You are the son of Aenarion, champion of the Daemon War, heir to the Phoenix Crown. It is your right by deed, merit and birth and I would give my life to see that ancient wrong reversed and your rightful position restored. As an elf I can think of no higher calling


    No, I don’t compare you saying that you want Mengil to say that the Sun is purple; I compare it to the fact that you say that Kouran is only a bodyguard, a Ludwig equivalent. You saying that Mengil and a mercenary mechanic would be thematically superior to Tullaris’ Avatar of Khaine or Kouran’s purpose as the right hand of the Witch King is very poor in my opinion, but that’s not a lack of knowledge so obvious as saying that Kouran is only a bodyguard or comparing Mengil to Lokhir.

    And again, no. I don’t mind you’ve other opinions. You’re constantly victimizing yourself because you don’t have other weapon to defend the poor arguments that ask for Mengil’s inclusion. Your posts have showed lack of knowledge in lore, and therefore I told you that those arguments were invalid. I urge you to talk with knowledge of lore before using the lore argument, or to do not use the lore argument at all, so stop the victimization because I only referred to that part. Many people think that the lore is secondary and therefore they defend characters only from a gameplay perspective leaving the lore behind; that’s the opinion of many others and even if I don’t like it I have to respect it, but what you can’t do is asking for the inclusion of Mengil lying about the lore of other characters like Kouran, because then you’re showing the signaled lack of knowledge, or worse, disrespect for the truth and lore.
    Yes, I used Lokhir and Rakarth as an example of characters that can confederate another faction, from a gameplay perspective, nowhere did I said about him being more important? I only said that he has a conection to Clar Karond, which he has, and said it as an idea, not an absolute must.

    Yeah, Repanse was chosen as the Questing Knigth and peasant LL of the faction, since her entire skill tree is about buffing peasants,if you want to see more into it is your problem.

    Did I said somewhere that Mengil should be DLC? No, he can come as a FLC LL and Tullaris be the DLC one, Mengil only would need his Manflayers like how Alith Anar got a unique unit, I wouldn't throw a tantrum because of that, it's just a video game.

    How does that quote demonstrate that he is not Malekith personal bodyguard? If anything it demostrates his devotion to ensuring that Malekith is crowned as Phoneix King, which he can't do from Cathay.

    And I never said that he is just a body guard? I literally called him "personal bodyguards and most trusted advisors", and neither did I said that Tullaris had no theme? Only that Mengil would buff Shades, which no LL currently does, and that that would be more interesting to me, so again stop putting words in my mouth, an again it's a subejective opinion.

    That you think my arguments about Mengil are bad is your opinion, but I stated arguments that are as valid as yours for wanting Kouran, I don't have a problem with counter arguments, but what you do is attack any one that doesn't agree with you, which is why you are in jail, so again, I would relax and avoid personal commentary because at this rate you will be banned.

    I won’t stay silent while you say Kouran is nothing more than a bodyguard. That’s simply not true and insulting to his lore. If you have a problem with it do not lie in the first place. And no, your arguments aren’t as good as mine since you’re literally asking for a lord with a mercenary mechanic for the DE. Seriously? We shouldn’t even “discuss” this. Mercenaries don’t fit with DE, and DE don’t fit with mercenaries. Mengil is the exception, not the norme.

    The only valid argument you said for Mengil is that he would focus on shades. Even if I don’t like it, it’s subjective as you say. But mercenary mechanic for the DE, Kouran being only a bodyguard or Mengil confederating Clar Karond are objectively very bad arguments.

    Sorry not sorry.
    I directly quoted what I said, so I don't know from where you are taking that I said that Kouran is just Malekith body guard? I called him his personal body guard and most trusted advisor.

    And okay, so my arguments aren't as good as yours only because you don't like a mercenary mechanic for the DE? When the ones that most hire Mengil are preciselly DE, because they appreciate his skills? I don't say being a mercenary is part of the identity of the DE, but being loyal is even more rare, by that logic Kouran would be the worst DE character ever.

    I also said that he would be a ranged LL in a race which currently doesn't have one, you know, that is important, and what is wrong about him gaining control over Clar Karond? It wouldn't be the first time someone kills the Drachau of a city an takes it for himself, it's not weirder that some out of nowhere Caledorian nobles taking control of Caledor and Imrik having to take it back, even though he is the undisputed Lord of Dragons.

    Again, your arguments are resumed to you being the only one that is correct, and because of that evey one else opinion is autmatically wrong, false or a lie, and in that case you are not allowed to share your opinion, so again, explain this to the mods, not to me, you appear to have a different perception of the forum rules.
    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 8,607

    Failing to add DE factions as enemies for Cathay would be a huge missed opportunity from CA.

    I would prefer to see Mengil as LL as I find him the most interesting, but any DE would work for adding a theme of antagonism to bring Cathay deeper into the core fabric of the lore by making one of the most important (lorefully speaking) races one they have frequent contact with.

    The most fitting LL in Cathay would be Lokhir, so moving him to Cathay in the third game would be the best option in my opinion. However Tullaris against Khorne in the north of the continent or Kouran in a special mission would be ok too. My personal choice would be Lokhir in Cathay, Tullaris in Nagarythe and Kouran as secondary LL to Malekith or in Cathay/Ulthuan.

    @mecanojavi99
    You see, here Mr_Finley7 says that he prefers Mengil because he finds him the most interesting LL, and while I don’t agree with him, I respect it. The little big difference is he didn’t lie about Kouran and Mengil to justify his decision. He just likes him more for whatever reason, which can’t be denied or argued since it hasn’t been explained. Now continue with the victimization if you wish, but what I am attacking is not you, but the mislead of information.
    The only diference between he and I is that I gave arguments for my choice and you directly attacked them as false, lies and other similar things, when you aren't even capable of seeing what I quoted, if any one is telling lies here is you, not me.
    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,073
    I think I disagree (at present ) with the usefulness of arguing whether one character has more of a “right” to be in than another, as CA has surprised us all several times with their choices and some of those I’ve initially disagreed with have turned out to make for pretty damn fun campaigns.

    Then again that’s an easy statement for me to make as all of my favorite characters have made it in (never thought I’d see Alith Anar and I was only ever cautiously hoepful regarding Throt’s chances after they gave Snikch what I assumed would be his spot).

    I definitely sympathize with all of y’all who are still fighting to drum up support for your favorite LL options.
  • LordTorquemadoLordTorquemado Registered Users Posts: 2,042

    DE don't really need any justification to be on the Game 3 map, we know they like to to raze the coast of the Far East.

    Lokhir is already the corsair LL of the DE, if anything he should be the one starting near Ind.

    Kouran is to Malekith what Ludwig is to Karl Franz, their personal bodyguards and most trusted advisors, so no, he is LH material for Malekith, sending him across the world, where he cannot protect Malekith, defeats his entire purpose about been a body guard.

    Tullaris on the other hand, is crazy and he only cares for the voices in his head, so if they say that he should go to Cathay he will go, he doesn't need a lot of convincing, but as has been said in other places, he would be better starting in Ulthuan in charge of the Scourge of Khaine faction, so maybe as a FLC LL exclusive to the ME like Drycha?

    Then, there is Mengil Manhide, the better choice in my opinion from a gameplay, location and thematic perspective:

    He is a mercenary, so he can start in any place, but he is also tied to Clar Karond as he is the son of a Lord of that city, so he could have a confederation mission like Lokhir and Rakarth have with Karond Kar, then, he is a ranged LL, which the DE currently lack, he would also be focused on shades, which no LL currently focuses on, he would bring a unique unit with him, his Manflayers, and he also has clear mercenary mechanics.

    So TLDR, Tullaris and Mengil LL in game 3, Kouran as a LH for Malekith, Duriath is redundant since we have Lokhir.

    HAHAHAHAHHA.

    This is so wrong in every way that you made me laugh hard, I will admit it.

    1. Kouran is not the Ludwig equivalent of the Druchii. Should you have interested a minimum in DE lore, you would know that Kouran is more than Malekith’s bodyguard. He is the right hand of the Witch King, the favored general of Malekith and the one in charge of the agents and spies of Naggaroth. He was the only able to keep united the Land of Chill, deed that even Morathi wasn’t able to do without Kouran. Kouran is to the Dark Elves what both Helborg and Schwarzhelm are to the Empire.

    2. Gameplay and thematic wise, he is the best option only in your head. The DE aren’t a faction prone to use or be mercenaries precisely. A mercenary mechanic is an insult for their lore and coherence. Now compare that anticlimactic and lorebreaking mechanic with Avatar of Khaine for Tullaris or defense/special mission for Kouran, with their respective unique units for each roster.

    3. He is the son of a minor lord of Clar Karond. It’s not like he is the son of the drachau of Hag Graef, or the most important fleetmaster or beastmaster of Naggaroth. This guy achieves what was impossible: to make Lokhir and Rakarth seem important.

    4. Mengil is already represented in the game as the best way he could be: a rogue lord.

    In definitive, the only characters that DE need to be perfectly represented are Kouran, Tullaris and Shadowblade, this one as LH, of course.
    It's not like what you say will change my mind, it's your personal opinion, and I have mine, but if I were you I would keep the personal attacks at a minimum, since you are already in jail for a reason.

    And relax, you already ranted about how Lokhir and Rakarth are the worst thing the DE have suffered in this game in other places, so no need to do it again here.
    Lokhir and Rakarth are the worst thing that DE have suffered for now, but only if the time eliminates every trace of hope for Kouran and Tullaris. If they come, then Lokhir and Rakarth will be perfect additions for the game.

    And don’t worry, that’s not a personal attack. It’s just as simple as not every opinion is equal, as your opinion demonstrates with its lack of knowledge or complete disrespect for the lore.
    So, now, different opinions that yours, are laveled as "lack of knowledge or complete disrespect for the lore", gotcha, tell that to mods later dude.
    No. But obviously, when someone compares Mengil to Rakarth or Lokhir (I won’t even say Kouran and Tullaris) from a lore perspective, he is demonstrating “lack of knowledge”. The same as saying Kouran is only a bodyguard. It shows a lack of knowledge that demonstrates little to zero interest in his lore, which can be considered by others as a “complete disrespect for the lore”. Which is fine, but then don’t use the lore argument, say that you don’t care about the lore and that you think Mengil is a better idea regardless of the rest, as many others have done with other characters.

    And if you use this argument, don’t be surprised by the fact that one guy will tell you that you’re misleading information. You can tell that the Sun is purple and that this is your opinion, but making your opinion won’t make it true. And by the way, from your perspective when someone says something that’s not true to another person, the other one shouldn’t response or contradict out of fear of being disrespectful, which is completely absurd.

    You have two options in this regard: read the lore before writing about it or pase on lore and don’t talk about it.
    I never compared Mengil to no one from a lore perspective? I know he is a minor character, I said he is the best from a "gameplay, location and thematic perspective", so don't put words that I didn't used in my mouth.

    And I have read Kouran Lore, he is a cool guy, but this is a video game that focuses more on what a character can bring in terms of gameplay than in terms of lore, or otherwise we would not have got Markus before Kurt, Repanse before Bohemond or other examples of characters that were chosen because of what they bring to the table from a gameplay perspective.

    Kouran is a DE with a halberd on foot that would be focused on Black Guard, surprise surprise, Malekith alredy has buffs to Black Guard in the form of heavy upkeep reduction and Rakarth is the AP Antilarge LL of the race, so Kouran brings nothing to the table from a gameplay perspective.

    The fact that Mengil is a ranged LL with a clear focus on shades and his own unique unit, puts him way above Kouran from a gameplay perspective.

    And yeah, Kouran is a great general, but his entire purpose on life is to protect Malekith, which he cannot do from Cathay.

    And your are comparing me wanting Mengil as a LL to sayin that the Sun is purple?? Dude, relax, I think you are taking a video game too seriously, you know that no one is going to die because Kouran isn't made a LL right?

    And essentially you are telling me that I shouldn't tell my opinion about something because in your opinion I don't know anything about the lore or I disrepect it, so not only my opinion is wrong only because contradicts yours but also inshoundnt even be able to speak it because you think is wrong? Gotcha, another thing to explain to the mods.
    You said literally that Mengil could confederate Clar Karond the same way Lokhir and Rakarth confederate Karond Kar because of his father, a complete no one who is from that city. So you’re comparing him to Lokhir and Rakarth to defend his inclusion; you can retract it if you want, but don’t negate you said it.

    We all know why Repanse was chosen instead of Bohemond, so not the best example. I would rather leave her out of this debate to focus on the Druchii characters, which is what it matters in this post.

    Kouran can bring different gameplay, you like it or not. Malekith got upkeep reduction for the Black Guard, but he doesn’t buff them, and while Rakarth is an anti large LL, he is focused on monsters and can ride dragons. Kouran would be an anti large foot lord focused on duelist and commanding, something that doesn’t exist in the DE roster. Much more than a repeater crossbow, which is what you claim to defend Mengil Ghorst.

    You shouldn’t use the argument of units, because while Tullaris brings Hag Queens, Disciples of Khaine, Draich Masters and Statues of Khaine, Kouran brings The Endless and the Lords of Oblivion. And the entire purpose of Kouran isn’t protect Malekith, but serve him and see him throned as the legitimate king of all elves. These are not my words, but Kouran’s words:
    You are the true king of the elves, Malekith. You are the son of Aenarion, champion of the Daemon War, heir to the Phoenix Crown. It is your right by deed, merit and birth and I would give my life to see that ancient wrong reversed and your rightful position restored. As an elf I can think of no higher calling


    No, I don’t compare you saying that you want Mengil to say that the Sun is purple; I compare it to the fact that you say that Kouran is only a bodyguard, a Ludwig equivalent. You saying that Mengil and a mercenary mechanic would be thematically superior to Tullaris’ Avatar of Khaine or Kouran’s purpose as the right hand of the Witch King is very poor in my opinion, but that’s not a lack of knowledge so obvious as saying that Kouran is only a bodyguard or comparing Mengil to Lokhir.

    And again, no. I don’t mind you’ve other opinions. You’re constantly victimizing yourself because you don’t have other weapon to defend the poor arguments that ask for Mengil’s inclusion. Your posts have showed lack of knowledge in lore, and therefore I told you that those arguments were invalid. I urge you to talk with knowledge of lore before using the lore argument, or to do not use the lore argument at all, so stop the victimization because I only referred to that part. Many people think that the lore is secondary and therefore they defend characters only from a gameplay perspective leaving the lore behind; that’s the opinion of many others and even if I don’t like it I have to respect it, but what you can’t do is asking for the inclusion of Mengil lying about the lore of other characters like Kouran, because then you’re showing the signaled lack of knowledge, or worse, disrespect for the truth and lore.
    Yes, I used Lokhir and Rakarth as an example of characters that can confederate another faction, from a gameplay perspective, nowhere did I said about him being more important? I only said that he has a conection to Clar Karond, which he has, and said it as an idea, not an absolute must.

    Yeah, Repanse was chosen as the Questing Knigth and peasant LL of the faction, since her entire skill tree is about buffing peasants,if you want to see more into it is your problem.

    Did I said somewhere that Mengil should be DLC? No, he can come as a FLC LL and Tullaris be the DLC one, Mengil only would need his Manflayers like how Alith Anar got a unique unit, I wouldn't throw a tantrum because of that, it's just a video game.

    How does that quote demonstrate that he is not Malekith personal bodyguard? If anything it demostrates his devotion to ensuring that Malekith is crowned as Phoneix King, which he can't do from Cathay.

    And I never said that he is just a body guard? I literally called him "personal bodyguards and most trusted advisors", and neither did I said that Tullaris had no theme? Only that Mengil would buff Shades, which no LL currently does, and that that would be more interesting to me, so again stop putting words in my mouth, an again it's a subejective opinion.

    That you think my arguments about Mengil are bad is your opinion, but I stated arguments that are as valid as yours for wanting Kouran, I don't have a problem with counter arguments, but what you do is attack any one that doesn't agree with you, which is why you are in jail, so again, I would relax and avoid personal commentary because at this rate you will be banned.

    I won’t stay silent while you say Kouran is nothing more than a bodyguard. That’s simply not true and insulting to his lore. If you have a problem with it do not lie in the first place. And no, your arguments aren’t as good as mine since you’re literally asking for a lord with a mercenary mechanic for the DE. Seriously? We shouldn’t even “discuss” this. Mercenaries don’t fit with DE, and DE don’t fit with mercenaries. Mengil is the exception, not the norme.

    The only valid argument you said for Mengil is that he would focus on shades. Even if I don’t like it, it’s subjective as you say. But mercenary mechanic for the DE, Kouran being only a bodyguard or Mengil confederating Clar Karond are objectively very bad arguments.

    Sorry not sorry.
    I directly quoted what I said, so I don't know from where you are taking that I said that Kouran is just Malekith body guard? I called him his personal body guard and most trusted advisor.

    And okay, so my arguments aren't as good as yours only because you don't like a mercenary mechanic for the DE? When the ones that most hire Mengil are preciselly DE, because they appreciate his skills? I don't say being a mercenary is part of the identity of the DE, but being loyal is even more rare, by that logic Kouran would be the worst DE character ever.

    I also said that he would be a ranged LL in a race which currently doesn't have one, you know, that is important, and what is wrong about him gaining control over Clar Karond? It wouldn't be the first time someone kills the Drachau of a city an takes it for himself, it's not weirder that some out of nowhere Caledorian nobles taking control of Caledor and Imrik having to take it back, even though he is the undisputed Lord of Dragons.

    Again, your arguments are resumed to you being the only one that is correct, and because of that evey one else opinion is autmatically wrong, false or a lie, and in that case you are not allowed to share your opinion, so again, explain this to the mods, not to me, you appear to have a different perception of the forum rules.
    You’re the one victimizing yourself and using the abuse button as a dislike button. I never said you couldn’t express your opinion, I just laugh at your lies or bad arguments. And yes, saying Kouran is just a bodyguard and an advisor and therefore he shouldn’t be a LL is false.

    It’s not only that I don’t like a mercenary mechanic for the DE. It’s that it doesn’t fit. Having to explain this is so absurd that bores me. The Druchii see the rest of races and civilizations as lesser beings and weaklings. Using mercenaries would be too risky for a Druchii general, for it would be seen as a sign of weakness and probably as a sentence of death for such general. As Malekith says in game “The Druchii have no friends, only victims”. Using mercenaries and lesser races would be an insult to DE lore and theme. We enslave the lesser races, not pay others to fight for us in battles we should fight.

    There are more loyal Druchii. The difference with Kouran is that his loyalty is purely out of admiration and reverence instead of terror and interest. But certainly most of DE are loyal to Malekith, for good reasons. And I can’t see how the one able to keep united Naggaroth during the absence of Malekith would be the worst DE character.

    Naggaroth is not an anarchy precisely, try to kill the drachau and see what happens next. Clar Karond got its own ruler, and its not this poor Rogue Lord. The fact that he could use a repeater crossbow isn’t important as you say. DE aren’t a race which favors the ranged combat in individual terms. They use ranged warfare because it is useful, but Druchii prefer in close combat, where they have excelled since the times of Aenarion. I don’t see why we should get a ranged lord when we have never got one in TT or lore.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 8,607

    I think I disagree (at present ) with the usefulness of arguing whether one character has more of a “right” to be in than another, as CA has surprised us all several times with their choices and some of those I’ve initially disagreed with have turned out to make for pretty damn fun campaigns.

    Then again that’s an easy statement for me to make as all of my favorite characters have made it in (never thought I’d see Alith Anar and I was only ever cautiously hoepful regarding Throt’s chances after they gave Snikch what I assumed would be his spot).

    I definitely sympathize with all of y’all who are still fighting to drum up support for your favorite LL options.

    Out of curiosity, why did you think Alith Anar would not be added?

    And yeah, here I am trying to bring support to the Mengil and Mortkin cause, it's not like I will demand CA if they're not added or something, just that I find them to be interesting characters that could bring a lot to the game, not only for me, but for everyone.
    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 17,625
    edited March 2021

    I think I disagree (at present ) with the usefulness of arguing whether one character has more of a “right” to be in than another, as CA has surprised us all several times with their choices and some of those I’ve initially disagreed with have turned out to make for pretty damn fun campaigns.

    Then again that’s an easy statement for me to make as all of my favorite characters have made it in (never thought I’d see Alith Anar and I was only ever cautiously hoepful regarding Throt’s chances after they gave Snikch what I assumed would be his spot).

    I definitely sympathize with all of y’all who are still fighting to drum up support for your favorite LL options.

    Out of curiosity, why did you think Alith Anar would not be added?

    And yeah, here I am trying to bring support to the Mengil and Mortkin cause, it's not like I will demand CA if they're not added or something, just that I find them to be interesting characters that could bring a lot to the game, not only for me, but for everyone.
    Mengil i get but Mortkin why? Thats just archeon lite. Cool lore but adds very little for norsca.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • LordTorquemadoLordTorquemado Registered Users Posts: 2,042

    I think I disagree (at present ) with the usefulness of arguing whether one character has more of a “right” to be in than another, as CA has surprised us all several times with their choices and some of those I’ve initially disagreed with have turned out to make for pretty damn fun campaigns.

    Then again that’s an easy statement for me to make as all of my favorite characters have made it in (never thought I’d see Alith Anar and I was only ever cautiously hoepful regarding Throt’s chances after they gave Snikch what I assumed would be his spot).

    I definitely sympathize with all of y’all who are still fighting to drum up support for your favorite LL options.

    Out of curiosity, why did you think Alith Anar would not be added?

    And yeah, here I am trying to bring support to the Mengil and Mortkin cause, it's not like I will demand CA if they're not added or something, just that I find them to be interesting characters that could bring a lot to the game, not only for me, but for everyone.
    Mengil could come as a horde or semihorde Rogue Lord in a Rogue Army pack. That I would buy you, but not as a DE LL. Less when the important characters are still out.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 8,607
    saweendra said:

    I think I disagree (at present ) with the usefulness of arguing whether one character has more of a “right” to be in than another, as CA has surprised us all several times with their choices and some of those I’ve initially disagreed with have turned out to make for pretty damn fun campaigns.

    Then again that’s an easy statement for me to make as all of my favorite characters have made it in (never thought I’d see Alith Anar and I was only ever cautiously hoepful regarding Throt’s chances after they gave Snikch what I assumed would be his spot).

    I definitely sympathize with all of y’all who are still fighting to drum up support for your favorite LL options.

    Out of curiosity, why did you think Alith Anar would not be added?

    And yeah, here I am trying to bring support to the Mengil and Mortkin cause, it's not like I will demand CA if they're not added or something, just that I find them to be interesting characters that could bring a lot to the game, not only for me, but for everyone.
    Mengil i get but Mortkin why? Thats just archeon lite. Cool lore but adds very little for norsca.
    The closest thing Norsca has to a race leader, with access to 2 WoC units and with rivalries with both the Empire and Kislev, perfect for a LP, and also, would be a cavalry LL for Norsca since he rides a jugernaut, and also dual wields an axe and a sword, so melee blender vs duellist that is Wulfrik.

    Also, his campaign could be easily adopted for a character focused campaign like Markus.
    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,073
    edited March 2021

    I think I disagree (at present ) with the usefulness of arguing whether one character has more of a “right” to be in than another, as CA has surprised us all several times with their choices and some of those I’ve initially disagreed with have turned out to make for pretty damn fun campaigns.

    Then again that’s an easy statement for me to make as all of my favorite characters have made it in (never thought I’d see Alith Anar and I was only ever cautiously hoepful regarding Throt’s chances after they gave Snikch what I assumed would be his spot).

    I definitely sympathize with all of y’all who are still fighting to drum up support for your favorite LL options.

    Out of curiosity, why did you think Alith Anar would not be added?

    And yeah, here I am trying to bring support to the Mengil and Mortkin cause, it's not like I will demand CA if they're not added or something, just that I find them to be interesting characters that could bring a lot to the game, not only for me, but for everyone.
    At that point flc mechanics had been pretty underwhelming (Tretch, Isabella) I didn’t think if they added him he’d get all the mechanics they gave him. (Although I might trade them all for more appropriate voice acting jk) and I didn’t think he’d get a dlc spot
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 8,607

    I think I disagree (at present ) with the usefulness of arguing whether one character has more of a “right” to be in than another, as CA has surprised us all several times with their choices and some of those I’ve initially disagreed with have turned out to make for pretty damn fun campaigns.

    Then again that’s an easy statement for me to make as all of my favorite characters have made it in (never thought I’d see Alith Anar and I was only ever cautiously hoepful regarding Throt’s chances after they gave Snikch what I assumed would be his spot).

    I definitely sympathize with all of y’all who are still fighting to drum up support for your favorite LL options.

    Out of curiosity, why did you think Alith Anar would not be added?

    And yeah, here I am trying to bring support to the Mengil and Mortkin cause, it's not like I will demand CA if they're not added or something, just that I find them to be interesting characters that could bring a lot to the game, not only for me, but for everyone.
    Mengil could come as a horde or semihorde Rogue Lord in a Rogue Army pack. That I would buy you, but not as a DE LL. Less when the important characters are still out.
    What is even a Rogue Army pack? Rogue armies aren't even a race, they are just random mixed armies that CA added to spice up the map and that currently don't do much apart from stealing razed settlements.

    And again, CA cares little for a characters lore importance, since Rakarth and Lokhir have been added before Tullaris or Kouran.
    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 8,607

    I think I disagree (at present ) with the usefulness of arguing whether one character has more of a “right” to be in than another, as CA has surprised us all several times with their choices and some of those I’ve initially disagreed with have turned out to make for pretty damn fun campaigns.

    Then again that’s an easy statement for me to make as all of my favorite characters have made it in (never thought I’d see Alith Anar and I was only ever cautiously hoepful regarding Throt’s chances after they gave Snikch what I assumed would be his spot).

    I definitely sympathize with all of y’all who are still fighting to drum up support for your favorite LL options.

    Out of curiosity, why did you think Alith Anar would not be added?

    And yeah, here I am trying to bring support to the Mengil and Mortkin cause, it's not like I will demand CA if they're not added or something, just that I find them to be interesting characters that could bring a lot to the game, not only for me, but for everyone.
    At that point flc mechanics had been pretty underwhelming (Tretch, Isabella) I didn’t think if they added him he’d get all the mechanics they gave him. (Although I might trade them all for more appropriate voice acting jk) and I didn’t think he’d get a dlc spot
    Interesting, I just saw it as a matter of time, it's not like CA can ignore the ranged LL of the HE if they want to keep some variety between the LL.
    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
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